Downs baby

[squirrelfriend]

I don't know much about Downs babies but here is a photo of one. this one belongs to Gabe. Gabe, I hope you don't mind me posting this photo .

[Gabe]

Thanks for posting the photo, squirlfriend. The important point of this photo is to show that it is a mature squirrel, yet the body fits into the palm of a hand.

[TexanSquirrel]

So he's small...But what's wrong with him?

[Gabe]

TS, he's a squirrel that has Downs Syndrome.

[TexanSquirrel]

Like people have?

[Novelle]

I guess I'm a bit unclear on this. Is the smallness the only physical sign? Is there accompanying mental damage? How do they know it's Downs? Is it possible to test DNA for it? Isn't Downs trisomy.. 21 or something like that in humans? Does it have the same sort of corresponding chromosomal defect in squirrels?
Sorry for all the questions. My girl is small and brain-damaged (although I don't think she's that small) and I guess I'm searching for answers, although the probable cause is that she bonked her head on her fall out of the tree.

[Assinine Tails]

Squirrels get downs syndrome? Do they act slow? I mean that could be dwarfism, couldn't it?

[TexanSquirrel]

Are they...mentally challenged?

[Gabe]

Downs Syndrome babies are very slow to mature. They are pudgy and short in body. Max's fur is very soft, but in kitten fur I think it is also sparse, his isn't. I too thought he was blind and deaf. But he is not. Basically, when he came in, he seemed lethargic, I had to wake him to feed, but his appetite was always good. As he got older, and should have been weened, he wasn't, but he was so inadequate at getting food into his mouth that I still continued esbilac once a day. I used fluffed uneven, not flat, blankets and towels so that he could find a way to squeeze in there and balance. He really wanted to be a big boy and stand up on back legs to feed himself. Max's favorite foods are grapes, his teeth are shorter than they should be. He still sleeps until stimulated, and after a short period of activity falls asleep in your hands. He is very loveable, and unfortunately not afraid of anything. He does not cling to you with his feet, but would fall off your shoulder if he were placed there. Will also walk right off the edge of a table. We're not sure of their life expectancy, but plan on giving them as much love as they can hold. Max is beginning to climb a little in his cage now, and seems to slowly develop skills.

[Lady Squirrelly]

Great info on the abilities or lack of for a Downs baby.

Do you have any more pictures??

You know we are all suckers for pictures.:crazy

How old is Max now??

[TexanSquirrel]

Max sounds absolutely precious.:Love_Icon

[Gabe]

Sorry, this is an old photo and I have different postings about him in various threads. I cut and pasted this one into this thread as questions were popping up once again and I thought it simplier to keep things together. Max died last year. He was unable to thermoregulate properly, became cold and had continuous seizures. Though seen by a vet that very same day, he did not make it through the night.

[susanw]

Gabe, we just got a squirrel in about 2 weeks ago that sounds just like Max. Do his eyes move rapidly, like rem? I also thought this little boy who we named Billy was blind, but now I'm not sure. He is just the most mellow and lovable squirrel you could ever meet, everyone has fallen in love with him. I am trying not to get too attached (yeah right), because I know they don't live that long. How did you discover that Max is not blind?

[Gabe]

I had totally convinced myself he was blind. He would walk off the table, not hang on when on me, not afraid of falling, sleep until it was time to eat. I actually took him to the vet to have his eyes checked and he said they were fine. Then little by little I started noticing that he could indeed see.
He was found at the base of a tree, fat and happy and asleep. He must have finally come out of the nest and had no idea what to do next. I thought he was lethargic and dying when he was admitted as he would just sleep and sleep. Hated being with other squirrels as they played too rough. Loved only one food at a time, til he tired of it and then onto a new food. Max loved grapes. He was syringe fed esbilac until he died just to give him good nourishment. He tired easily after he was picked up and petted and generally spent lots of time in peoples laps sound asleep.
Susan enjoy him and love him to death. He won't ever let you down by biting or being rough.

[susanw]

Oh Gabe, you can't help but love this little guy! We have to dice his food for
him, but like yours his main diet is formula. His front legs are so short.

[Lady Squirrelly]

How very sweet he sounds. Can we see pictures?

[susanw]

I'll take pictures of Billy Tuesday and post them.

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

Aww...he is so, sweet..looking.
Do you take him out in public?
Could you?
Like if were going out..to a park..or for a walk?
Doesnt sound like he could bolt away..from you..a nice calm..sweet..little guy!
How. adorable!:Love_Icon special..litttle guy!

[TexanSquirrel]

:grouphug :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon What sweet babies. I'm glad Max had you to take care of him.:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[susanw]

Here are a couple of pictures of Billy. Is he a dwarf or down baby? I made a mistake when I posted he was full grown, we believe he is about 3 months. Cannot sit up on his back legs or hold his food, and does not cling to you with his paws.

[Bravo]

Outwardly almost perfect... and the very definition of unreleasable. :grouphug

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww! :Love_Icon He definetely looks like a keeper.

[Lady Squirrelly]

Thanks for the pictures. He is so cute.:thumbsup

[4skwerlz]

Are you sure he's 12 weeks old? He's adorable.

[island rehabber]

I'm no expert but I think he is a dwarf. An adorable, huggable one, too. :grouphug

[susanw]

No we are not sure he is 12 weeks old, we only got him about 3 weeks ago so it's more or less a guess. My rehabber fell in love with him and he is now her permanent squirrel, I am squirrel sitting while she is out of town. I am making him a little pouch that you can wear against your chest, kind of like a baby carrier you see where the mother has the baby hanging from the front of her.

[susanw]

I'm no expert but I think he is a dwarf. An adorable, huggable one, too. :grouphug


Wouldn't a dwarf act like a normal squirrel, just shorter like people dwarf's?

[TexanSquirrel]

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[scoobysnack]

Omygoodness is he adorable or what?

[island rehabber]

Wouldn't a dwarf act like a normal squirrel, just shorter like people dwarf's?

I'm working on the answer to that one, susanw...not certain. :dono

[4skwerlz]

Kin I trade you two monsterish squirrellies for your little guy??? :D :D :D

[susanw]

Kin I trade you two monsterish squirrellies for your little guy??? :D :D :D


Ha, you would have to fight my rehabber over that one! My guess would be no, since she has plenty of the monster kind most of the year.:)

[Novelle]

I'm sorry but I keep coming back to this thread with questions.

I read that animals can't have Downs syndrome, or exactly that, as it is trisomy 21 in humans and even if it has the same characteristics it can't be called technically because the abnormality may not be in the 21st chromosome.

Second, how many chromosomes to squirrels even have? I have found one source that says "2n = 40, FNa =76 (North America)", but also "In Sciuridae a range of 48 to 62 has been found in different species."

How does one even tell if it's Downs/trisomy that's causing it? Can you have the DNA tested? If so, how?

Sorry for all the questions, it's just interesting because many of the symptoms described are ones my baby exhibits, and I've always assumed she just bumped her head on the way out of the tree. Which of course is vastly more probable than a genetic disorder but it's still interesting.

[TexanSquirrel]

:dono

[susanw]

I'm sorry but I keep coming back to this thread with questions.

I read that animals can't have Downs syndrome, or exactly that, as it is trisomy 21 in humans and even if it has the same characteristics it can't be called technically because the abnormality may not be in the 21st chromosome.

Second, how many chromosomes to squirrels even have? I have found one source that says "2n = 40, FNa =76 (North America)", but also "In Sciuridae a range of 48 to 62 has been found in different species."

How does one even tell if it's Downs/trisomy that's causing it? Can you have the DNA tested? If so, how?

Sorry for all the questions, it's just interesting because many of the symptoms described are ones my baby exhibits, and I've always assumed she just bumped her head on the way out of the tree. Which of course is vastly more probable than a genetic disorder but it's still interesting.

I don't know about DNA testing for animals, never heard of it. If you look at Billy compared to a healthy grey squirrel, there is a big difference. Hair is different texture, face is round, limbs are shorter and eyes are strange looking. I don't think you can get that from a bump on the head.

[Gabe]

Even though they are not actually tested for DNA and chromosones there is still something very physically different. They are extremely loving, have a balance issue, different physical features and have somewhere along the line in the animal veterinarian community been dubbed as down's babies. I don't think the term is meant to be taken quite so literally. Max was diagnosed as such by a vet after takining just a quick look at him. I was floored, I had no idea there was such a thing. Must be something that happens in animals now and again and the vet recoginized it as such.
Human downs babies have very specific features that leads us to follow up with the appropriate blood work to make a diagnosis. Apparently animals also are very specific in their presentation but being animals there is not the pressing need to follow through with the blood work. Only humans need to be labeled in society so that they may receive social security and the proper schooling to be a functioning member in our society. In the wild they are left to die.

[scoobysnack]

Human downs babies have very specific features that leads us to follow up with the appropriate blood work to make a diagnosis. Apparently animals also are very specific in their presentation but being animals there is not the pressing need to follow through with the blood work. Only humans need to be labeled in society so that they may receive social security and the proper schooling to be a functioning member in our society. In the wild they are left to die.

And humans used to be left to die, institutionalized, locked in closets or worse. In some societies they still are.

In answer to the question about DNA testing on animals. YES! It's quite common. We test horses for parentage, color, genetic diseases and all sorts of stuff. Almost daily they come up with more markers for identifying things from color traits to genetic deformities. I would think a chromosomal test would be available.

I would also think that downs could surely exist in any species. It may not be the same chromosome or number of them, but it could certainly exist. As Gabe mentioned the diagnosis may not be literal but based on a series of indicators like the lack of balance, shortened limbs, gentle demeanor and odd facial features.

I will say... they are very cute. They look a bit like animated characters or extremely cutesy drawings of squirrels.

[Novelle]

Ok, thanks for the info, that was very helpful.

And yeah, I know you DNA test pedigreed horses, dogs, etc. and that you can have birds, and I assume snakes and other reptiles (?), DNA tested by companies (I've seen ads for them). Not to mention the companies that do like paternity testing and stuff. Just wondering if there was a specific place that would test some DNA from any animal for you if you paid them enough.

[TexanSquirrel]

I still think they are the most precious babies. :grouphug

[susanw]

Ok, thanks for the info, that was very helpful.

And yeah, I know you DNA test pedigreed horses, dogs, etc. and that you can have birds, and I assume snakes and other reptiles (?), DNA tested by companies (I've seen ads for them). Not to mention the companies that do like paternity testing and stuff. Just wondering if there was a specific place that would test some DNA from any animal for you if you paid them enough.


That would be a good research project, see if DNA testing was ever done
on squirrels. :)

[Abacat]

Aaaaah, Billy is so sweet! What a cutie...wish we could see more pics and keep updated on Billy...tell your friend she has to let us know how he's doing.:D

[rygel1hardt]

To rehabbers: I would be interested in how many dwarf/downs babies you have had over the years, and their sexes. I have only seen one female and all the rest have been males so I am wondering if this could possibly be a sex linked birth defect. Thanks! Stacey

[little_angels]

Ok, thanks for the info, that was very helpful.

And yeah, I know you DNA test pedigreed horses, dogs, etc. and that you can have birds, and I assume snakes and other reptiles (?), DNA tested by companies (I've seen ads for them). Not to mention the companies that do like paternity testing and stuff. Just wondering if there was a specific place that would test some DNA from any animal for you if you paid them enough.

I don't know about squirrels but i get my Parrots and Horses tested here for anything that needs to be done

I'm sure if someone contacted them they could either do DNA tests themselves or send you somewhere that could

http://www.avianbiotech.com/

[susanw]

Aaaaah, Billy is so sweet! What a cutie...wish we could see more pics and keep updated on Billy...tell your friend she has to let us know how he's doing.:D



I will see him 3 days a week and will keep you updated.:)

[Abacat]

:thankyou susanw. :thumbsup

[charles]

hey:thumbsup , thats great!!!!!!!!
It looks very nice... who old is this???
If you have some other pictures of this quite guy.. post them...

[vdyhogan]

When I get my computor back this is a borrowed one but I have pictures of a squirrel that does fit this issue I never in all of my years of rehab heard of this but it fits my little guy perfectly. Unfortunately he died after a fall in his cage of only about 10 inches but he was totally blind and hit his head and withing two days died.

But his size was defientely first clue as well as shortness of his body and tail never developed past the size of a 12 week old juv squirrel, one eye never developed and the other was blue and totally clear had no pupil.

He was able to climb and eat anything and when in outside cage he would just lie in the sun but when in his cage which was a two story with a ladder he could and would run circles run and round and I figure that is how he fell as he was doing his full run in circle and fell down the ladder. Anyway I will post pictures within a week of my guy Little Man.

Never had a mean streak except to other squirrels but always loving and gentle. Downs I will make notes of this. Thanks Virginia:goodpost

[TexanSquirrel]

aww You're little one sounds precious. So sorry he is gone.:grouphug

[susanw]

My rehabber let me keep Billy after babysitting him for two weeks, due to she knew I would give him more attention than she could. Here is an updated pictures of him, he still does not eat enough on his own and doesn't really climb or cling to things. He is only 6 1/2 in. long not including his tail. He is full of energy though and seems healthy and happy running around my house (it's more like a hop) and being outside on warm days. I just love him, he is the sweetest little fellow!

[Abacat]

:thankyou I've been wondering about Billy since you last mentioned him...:Love_Icon He is a sweetie! Course now maybe he can have his own thread, with LOTS of pics? :poke :D

[TexanSquirrel]

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon What a precious baby!:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Gabe]

He is soooooo cute! Love that little face.

[Kathy56]

We need lots and lots of pictures of this little angel. He is a doll baby.:thumbsup

[Abacat]

You hoo...Billy, where are you? :poke :flash Please????

[susanw]

I'm still here, I will work on mommy to take more pictures! Thank you all for the compliments!:Love_Icon

[TexanSquirrel]

Yes, we must see that precious little face!

[Sarabi]

:poke Yes pls more

[shadysheepie]

I have read this thread with much interest, My little girl of the human type has Downs syndrome.

I can tell you for sure that all mammals can have downs syndrome

also there are 3 types of downs syndrome not just trisomy 21

theres also mosaic downs and another type

any mamal that has chromosones can have downs syndrome

signs are small , with learning problems meaning they can learn but at a slower pace, squirrels with Downs syndrome would be small, maybe prone to being tubby simple because any animal with DS is not as fast and would not burn up energy

also anorther thing common with Ds from chimp to human to squirrel to cat is floppy muscle tone

an animal with DS would not survive in the wild

Monkey world here in the UK in Dorset has 2 chimps and one oragatan with Downs syndrome

I know w few people whom have cats with it as well

hope i have filled you in a bit Andrea xxxx

[Rhapsody]

He still sleeps until stimulated, and after a short period of activity falls asleep in your hands. He does not cling to you with his feet.


I had totally convinced myself he was blind. He would walk off the table, not hang on when on me, not afraid of falling, sleep until it was time to eat.


Thank you very much for the information you have shared in this thread it has greatly helped me.... the way your Max is sounds a lot like how my four week old baby squirrel is acting. I thought some thing like this might be wrong with him two days after I picked him from my nieces house (she said he fell from above and landed on her shoe) - now only time can truly tell how he will be, but my gut feeling says he has ds and will be with us for the rest of his precious little life.


God Bless You! :Love_Icon

[Mommaluvy]

I have read this thread with much interest, My little girl of the human type has Downs syndrome.

I can tell you for sure that all mammals can have downs syndrome

also there are 3 types of downs syndrome not just trisomy 21

theres also mosaic downs and another type

any mamal that has chromosones can have downs syndrome

signs are small , with learning problems meaning they can learn but at a slower pace, squirrels with Downs syndrome would be small, maybe prone to being tubby simple because any animal with DS is not as fast and would not burn up energy

also anorther thing common with Ds from chimp to human to squirrel to cat is floppy muscle tone

an animal with DS would not survive in the wild

Monkey world here in the UK in Dorset has 2 chimps and one oragatan with Downs syndrome

I know w few people whom have cats with it as well

hope i have filled you in a bit Andrea xxxx


Wow ! Just wow! I never knew this.

I too have a child with Down syndrome . This is amazing.

[Chickenlegs]

I have a little guy that fits the bill on so many of those earmarks but pretty sure he's a dwarf rather than Downs. All this info is a blessing for those who run across one of these remarkable little guys. I try to post something about Kensington every day--just because it might help another special baby (and because he's SO cute)