KMR or Esbilac? Which is better?

[Vronkie]

Hi.
I posted on here a few days ago about a squirrel that would not poo, now he is pooing like a dream.
I'm currently giving him goats milk for all of his feeds and a little weaning food as he is about 6 weeks old, but I want to get a formula as I want to give him the best chance and help him grow nice and fat :) which I don't think will work with goats milk due to it only being 4% fat.
So my question is which is better KMR or esbilac puppy/kitten as I am new to this and have gotten a lot of conflicting advice online. Also I am in the UK so wont be able to get the fox valley day one as it will take over a week to arrive.
So any advice anyone could give me would be much appreciated. I've uploaded two photos as I know you can tell a lot from photos and maybe give me a better indication of his age?

Thank you

[Skul]

KMR is not what you want to feed.
Some members have had issues with Esbilac, but, it would be far better than KMR.
We mostly have switched over to Fox Valley 32/40, which must be ordered.
I'll quick look and see if I can find the goat milk formula that some use before the FV arrives.

OK, I found it.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29904

A little more info...
http://www.ewildagain.org/Milk%20Replacers/milk_replacer_update_may_2010.htm

The FV, link....
http://foxvalleynutrition.com/prod/details.asp?CID=1&PLID=1

[Vronkie]

Hello! Thanks for your speedy reply, I've looked on Henry's healthy pets and they offer International Shipping (Express Mail International) post, does anyone know where I can check up to see how long this will take to arrive? :thinking

Also I've seen on this site something about weaning them with monkey biscuits but cant remember the correct name, as I would like to get little Pip some of those to. :Love_Icon

Thank you again :)

[CritterMom]

Send her an email from the site - she is a member here and will respond.

I have been told that Royal Canin makes a puppy formula that has a pretty good rep in the UK, too. The nice thing about the Fox Valley is that it is actually formulated for wildlife, not puppies...

[Skul]

I know of some that have used monkey biscuits.
You have to keep in mind, they are just another part of a balanced diet.
Various vegetables and some nuts are still needed.

Now days, shipping time would most likely be five days or so.
I'll see what I can find out.

Ha, C.M kinda beat me to it.
Send the e-mail and see what they can do.

BTW, I'm guessing it to be right around five weeks.

[Vronkie]

I have emailed them so hopefully I will get a reply soon.
Also how many bags should I order, do you think I will need more than one?

This is such a great website, very helpful and to get replies so soon is amazing! Little Pip loves his little rice buddy, he curls himself around it whenever he sleeps, it really is lovely to know there are people out there caring for what is considered in the UK vermin ( I have no idea why because I think squirrels are amazing little creatures, Pip has such character already.)
I even saw one website saying you should turn the other way when you pick up a orphaned squirrel and make sure no one sees you. Which is awful to think people would advise you against looking after them because of some stupid law. So HURRAY for The Squirrel Board :bowdown :Love_Icon

X

[Skul]

They would be better at advising as to the amount to order.
I would think this would be a good start.....
http://foxvalleynutrition.com/shop/cart.asp?PID=2
About 1.5 kilos for you guys. Under 18 UK pounds.
Not sure what the shipping would cost.

You can then evaluate the rate you feed, and how long it will last.

[jo_schmoe]

If baby is already on goats milk.....why not just add some cream and yogurt to the mix? :dono
I know rehabbers that use this formula...and have had great success.
At least until you get the FV.
Input from anyone??

[Skul]

If baby is already on goats milk.....why not just add some cream and yogurt to the mix? :dono
I know rehabbers that use this formula...and have had great success.
At least until you get the FV.
Input from anyone??
:wave123 Jo.
Exactly.
Mentioned that in second post.
Probably the best thing to do.

[Vronkie]

I will definitely keep him on the goats milk and add some yogurt and cream, which ones are best to add?

Does anyone know how long will it take to get an order from Fox Valley to the UK?

Sorry for all the questions. :thankyou

[jbtartell]

Here is what I used with my 6 year old when she was a baby and it is easy to get and will fatten them right up.you can get the .Mix 1 part Powered esbilac with 2 parts distilled water and 1/4 part whipping cream ( not whip cream..lol), and plain yogart.. I put 10 cc yogart to a cup of the mixed fomula. we have other rehabbers that use this recipe also.. this is good for them and will fatten them up :Love_Icon

[Skul]

I will definitely keep him on the goats milk and add some yogurt and cream, which ones are best to add?

Does anyone know how long will it take to get an order from Fox Valley to the UK?

Sorry for all the questions. :thankyou
You have what I believe is called "single cream". That's the stuff.
The yogurt should be the natural type, not the chemically made stuff.
The good bacteria in the natural is what you need.
When the FV comes in, (five days?) you do a two-three day transition from GM to FV.

[island rehabber]

Good advice from all -- i would add that the Royal Canin is a very good formula if you can get it easily.
Zupreem makes the monkey biscuits. Another good rodent block is Mazuri. And of course, to supplement the baby's diet and ensure that he gets all the calcium and other nutrients required daily, Henrys Healthy Blocks Growth Formula, twice a day. :thumbsup

[Skul]

Check in to see if there was any news.

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi Vronkie I thought this might help you out! :Welcome Welcome to TSB!

***While waiting for the Fox Valley to arrive...

Temporary Formula for Infant Squirrels – The Goat’s Milk Formula

Because of recent manufacturing issues, Esbilac and other puppy formulas are no longer being recommended for squirrels or other wildlife. The formula that TSB recommends, Fox Valley Day One, is currently available online at www.foxvalleynutrition.com and www.henryspets.com. But those require shipping and this baby squirrel needs food NOW.

One of our senior members who posts as Jackie in Tampa uses an excellent temporary substitute, and it can be assembled from locally purchased ingredients:

3 parts goat’s milk
1 part heavy whipping cream*
1 part vanilla yogurt

Formula will last 48 hours in refrigerator.

Goat’s Milk
This can be purchased at natural food stores such as Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods, and at most health food stores that sell groceries. It is a product for humans. Do not substitute commercial formula made for baby goats or other livestock sold at feed stores.

Goat’s milk is available fresh in a carton; evaporated in a can; and as a powdered milk. If you purchase either the evaporated or powdered versions, please blend them with water according to the package directions before using to make the formula.

Heavy Whipping Cream
This is found in small cartons in the grocery store near the coffee creamers and half and half. Regular heavy cream may be substituted if it is unavailable, but the heavy whipping cream has the highest fat content, and is preferred.

Yogurt
Yogurt has beneficial bacteria in it that soothes and settles digestion. Full fat yogurt is best, and a good choice that is very widely available is Stoneyfield Yobaby yogurt. However if it is unavailable, a low fat vanilla yogurt may be substituted. Avoid those that have artificial sweeteners in them. Vanilla and banana are both popular flavors, and the sweet taste of the yogurt helps to convince the baby to accept it.

It has been recently discovered that very small pinky squirrels may do better digestively if, instead of being given Fox Valley formula straight, mix the Fox Valley 50/50 with the Goat’s Milk Formula assembled WITHOUT the heavy whipping cream.

*It is recommended that when just starting to feed a new baby that the first feedings be made without the heavy whipping cream. This will give their digestive systems a chance to acclimate from mama’s milk to our substitute without the harder-to-digest whipping cream. Once they accept the formula and are eliminating properly, the whipping cream can be gradually added in.

When your Fox Valley formula arrives, please transition your babies to the new formula slowly, by blending the Goat’s Milk Formula with the blended and liquefied Fox Valley formula, increasing the ratio of Fox Valley with each feeding until you are no longer using the goat’s milk.
__________________
Island Rehabber
NY State Licensed
Wildlife Rehabilitator

[Skul]

Good, grief, woman, go do the laundry.:D

[Vronkie]

Hello thank you so much for all your replies and advice! All of which has been enormously helpful!! :thankyou

Pip is currently having the goats milk formula with the whipping cream and single cream added in, and we should be getting the fox valley formula by Friday!! Hopefully that will help with him feel full, because he seems to be hungry every two or so hours which seems very frequent for a five week old squirrel. I remember reading somewhere they should need feeding every four hours? Maybe he is just making up for lost time?

Oh and today his tail curled for the first time. :Love_Icon I feel like a very proud mum :jump