3 Siblings / Green Diarrhea

[Rhapsody]

Ok - I got 3 siblings that have been battling a case of diarrhea for 2 weeks and I have gone through the basic routine protocol for this kind of medical issue and the matter will NOT resolve its self.... :thinking :thinking

The only time these 3 have even had solid poop with in the last two weeks was when they were on straight pedialyte to flush out the body (and that was only 2 of them)
--Elvira has never has solid poop since the diarrhea started two weeks ago.... they are 5 weeks old.

Kaopectate seems to be the only thing keeping their poop semi formed ---well mushy soft instead of full blown liquid...... but I am nervous about how long I can keep giving this to them.

NOW!! --My Concern --as of today / late tonight all 3 siblings are showing signs of darkish GREEN POOP and I wondering IF its time to START the MEDS? --I have CIPRO!!
500 mg tab

*(they are under weight due to the diarrhea @ about 70 grams)
*(i have ultra boost on its way!!)

[CritterMom]

I read on another thread that a lot of the hurricane babies are coming in with giardia and coccidia. This is an area I am not that familiar with but if I am not mistaken, coccidia will respond with baytril/cipro but giardia is viral and requires metronidazole. This will at least bump your thread - hopefully someone who has dealt directly can comment. Good news is that you can use "fish zole" which is a meto product for fish - it is available OTC...

Edit: does it stink?

[Rescue04]

I may be off my rocker - but it sounds like a parasite in the belly. I can not remember what to treat it with. I will try to find my cheat sheet - I know there is one listed for this specifically. Are they old enough for yogurt? I hate it when my girls help clean up - I can never find aything.

[jbtartell]

Yes yogurt..lol it does wonders if you get it in them..

[Rhapsody]

I read on another thread that a lot of the hurricane babies are coming in with giardia and coccidia. Edit: does it stink?No - Hurricane Babies Here --these are the ones I got from CrazyforSquirrels as Pinkies (just days old) they are from the Hudson's area......
her brother-in-law found them in the phone box when he was working on the lines....
1 of the 4 passed away with in the first week and a half, he was sickly and hard to feed (R.I.P. - Gilbert).

No Smell --just GREEN!!

[Rhapsody]

As stated above...... I have tried all the usual remedies / routine PROTOCOL for Diarrhea....... Yogurt being one of them :thumbsup :thumbsup
--all babies have been on Yogurt for weeks now, as I mix it in with the FV after their first week of eating formula.

[momma2boo]

Let me see if I can get Anne to log on and give her $ .02. LOL

[Rhapsody]

I may be off my rocker - but it sounds like a parasite in the belly.
I will try to find my cheat sheet - I know there is one listed for this specifically. Are they old enough for yogurt? I would love that...... THANKS --been on Yogurt for weeks now..... NO LUCK there either...... :thinking

[Rhapsody]

Let me see if I can get Anne to log on and give her $ .02. LOLThank YOU .............. :thumbsup :Love_Icon

as these little boogers are wanting to eat more and more since I rehydrated them and yet their little bottoms are so
raw/red that I just hate to push the boundaries on their messed up tummies until the diarrhea issue is dealt with.....
I am having to bath them and change their bedding every other day as it is.

[Rhapsody]

I may be off my rocker - but it sounds like a parasite in the belly. BTW - I am inclined to think this as well --given the fact they have been growing in length, but not in weight over the last few weeks.....
they seemed sickly to me even before the diarrhea showed up (just some thing a mom knows when she looks at her kids).

[Rhapsody]

Anne --this is the Actual THREAD...... Hoping this is still what YOU would have suggested your advice for!!
BTW --I have a little SMZ left, but prob not enough for 3 babies..... but I do have CIPRO --can YOU does it or would it be the same?

FOX VALLEY --ALL THE WAY BABY!!


OK- yogurt can cause diarrhea-heavy cream doesn't help digestion just adds fat. Stop formula (hope you are using Fox Valley-Esbalic causes deadly diarrhea!!!!!).
Dose with SMZ-TMP @ 0.01cc/ml for every 25 grams. For 24 hours just hydrate every 2 to 3 hours. Your squirrels sound like they have Coccidia.
You take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.:D

[island rehabber]

I agree with Anne -- this sounds like typical coccidia symptoms. Metro is great for that...

[Rhapsody]

I agree with Anne -- this sounds like typical coccidia symptoms. Metro is great for that...Any one close to LAKELAND have any Metro on hand that I can pick up today? ---if not could I start the CIPRO as a back up?

[Rhapsody]

Question?

Can I still give Kaopectate during the 24 hour Pedialyte Flush? --along with the SMZ?

and

Is the SMZ a 1x DOSE or is it to be Given for a few days 1x a Day?

[Anne]

Use the Flagyl (fish zole) available at any aquarium store or place that sells fish. The dosage will be 0.025cc/ml for every 25 grams. Give it twice a day for 7 whole days. Don't think you have enough SMZ for twice a day for a week for each squirrel.

Dissolve a 250mg/ml tablet in in 5cc/ml of water or juice.this is the best for diarrhea! Don't give any Kaopectate, it won't be needed. Keep feeding the FV.

[Rhapsody]

Ok - Thanks....... :thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

THE EFFECT OF COMMONLY USED ANTIMICROBIALS ON
COCCIVAC®-COCCIDIA




Steve Fitz-Coy, Schering-Plough Animal Health
Chicken coccidia are protozoan parasites of economic importance; the control of coccidiosis is principally
with the use of anticoccidial compounds. However, there is an increased interest in the use of live coccidia
vaccines for the control of coccidiosis. The use of specific anti-microbial in feed, water or injection may be
warranted at various times during the growing periods of commercial chickens.
The concomitant use of antimicrobials and Coccivac is unknown; a recently conducted trial compared the
effect of four antimicrobials against coccidia from Coccivac. Amprol used as the reference for drug
efficacy. Each bird was inoculated per os with 20 doses of Coccivac-D®, medication provided from day of
inoculation until day of termination. Fecal material collected from day 5 to day 8. Data showed that the
antimicrobials suppressed oocysts out put by an average of 26% as compared to the oocysts out-put of the
controls. The rate of sporulation for the oocysts passed not impacted by medication.
Coccidiosis is a major disease in poultry; the estimated cost to control this disease worldwide is in excess
of $800 million. Attempts to manage coccidia is a current practice; the infestation pressure is kept relatively
low to avoid or prevent devastating losses and to minimizing the buildup of infection pressure. To reduce
or delay the onset of anticoccidial drug resistance; vaccinating birds with drug sensitive strains of coccidia
has shown good promise to enables re-population of the environment with drug sensitive strains of Eimeria.
Antimicrobial agents are used for specific purposes during the production animals’ lives. However, in some
situations, the concomitant use of in-feed anticoccidial and specific antimicrobials may not be an approved
combination. Some antimicrobials might have efficacy against other infectious agents such as coccidia.
The trial reported here; young chickens were inoculated per os at a rate of 20x doses of Coccivac-D per
bird and given one of six treatments (positive control, fed un-medicated feed, or penicillin @ 1,500,000
units per gal water or Tetracycline® 600 mg/gal water or sulfadimethoxine @ 0.05% in drinking water or
neomycin-spectinomycin @ 60mg/lb or Amprol® 10oz/gal).

Results and discussions:
Data showed that the total oocysts produced per bird for each treatment group (Control, Penicillin,
Neomycin-Spectinomycin, Tetracycline®, SDM or Amprol®) were 176.6, 140.8, 154.5, 111.4, 41.83 or
42.3 million, respectively. The effect of penicillin, neomycin-spectinomycin, and tetracycline, SDM or
Amprol® on oocysts output caused reductions in oocysts output as compared to the controls (21%, 13%,
37%, 76% and 76%, respectively). Amprol and SDM tremendously reduced the level of oocysts in the
feces, compared to the other treatment groups.
Based on the findings, Amprol® @ 10oz/gal and SMD @ 0.05% were twice as effective of reducing
oocysts output per animal as compared to penicillin, neomycin-spectionmycin, or tetracycline. The
effectiveness of oocysts harvested from any of the treatment groups, was not negatively impacted by the
treatment. The average rate of sporulation for the collected oocysts was 77%.

[Jackie in Tampa]

It sounds like coccidia...
dilute bleach will kill it, cages,feeding bowls, hands, etc...use it in the laundry too Carolyn.

My med choice would be a sulpa based med. I have dealt with over a hundred sqs with cocidia...
I have used albon with terrible results...however SMZ-TMP was the bomb.
SR&BT loves albon and swears it works for her...
resistance must be in areas....

Two of TSBs best reahbbers are sayng to use metro/flagyl..
so it's hard for me to say otherwise.

coccidia is not a disease...it is a single cell parasite that is almost always present in wildlife.
When stressed, the immune system weakens and they take over...
treating with meds allows the body to resume control and build it's immune system back up.
My advise is to add FV Ultra Boost or something similar to help with that part.
It is seriously contageous..I know, four years ago, I had over 30 sqs with it...and ONLY because albon was Rxed...
in my area the parasite is resistant to albon...it was a very messy situation..try medicating 30 sqs twice a day...I know some got double dosed and others missed a few...oye it was a mess...and yucky too!
Keep them hydrated...coccidia seldom affects the appetite and seldom causes lethargy...so the kids are rolling around playing and slinging yucky everywhere..I know It!!!!:sanp3

I know you said you had nbever had sick sqs before so no vet...mpetys has a vet on the lakeland side of Tampa Carolyn...and she loves him...

I would not use cipro unless it was all the meds you had and you could not go to a vet...too hard on an already compromised immune system. jmo. Florida is sq friendly! yeah! {we are so lucky}
I may have given you metro, I can't remember...but I know the SMZ-TMP is fresh if you have kept in fridge... I would start them on that and get them to a vet...and get more SMZ-TMP.
:grouphug :Love_Icon

[pappy1264]

When my guys had BAD coccidia, I used all three...Albon, Flagyl, Sulfatrim and also were getting kaopectate. I treated for three weeks (as we did not get a sample taken before starting meds). My four were fine one day, but within 24 hours, all had diarrhea, and would not eat or take fluids. They were so bad, we were sub-qing and thought we would loose them. Right before it started, Sebastian bloated and almost lost him. It was a rough road, but the meds worked (I added in yogurt the last week and a half of treatment). They all recovered and never looked back. My original three (Sebastian, Diva and Precious were all fine, it is believed Sammy brought it in, they all were sick within 48 hours of his arrival. He did have diarrhea, but it was thought to be from being improperly fed, as with fluids, it seemed to get a little better. Sebastian got it the worst, but they all were really bad! There is a med out now that supposedly works in one dose, very expensive and a vet has to order it. Will get the name and repost later, have to run out right now.

[Rhapsody]

Two days into treating them with the SMZ I still had on hand from Jackie...... :thumbsup
No - Metro / Jackie

They seem have gotten their appetite and energy back (one female has formed poop) - the male is half and half and Elvia (the one I think started it all)
still has runny poop, but it is no longer dark green - more of a lighter green with some yellow to it.

I ended up having more SMZ than I thought I had after I got the appropriate dose for them..... probably enough to treat them all for 5 days.
Do you all think I still need to take them to see a vet and get more SMZ or should I just start them on the Flagyl after the SMZ is gone?

Jackie.... I have found a wildlife vet here in Lakeland / Thompson Animal Hospital.

[Jackie in Tampa]

metro can cause diarrhea...that's my only issue..
I have done more research {for myself since I got hooked and couldn't stop }...
if I were in the woods and only had albon or metro and bad case of coccidia, I would use the metro over the albon...
seems the sulfa without the dazole just won't cut it...however metro can add to the poopy issue...:shakehead
hard to win huh!
SMZ_TMP is easy on babies tummies, yet is a slow acting AB.
In my house it worked well.
I went back and looked at my notes etc, it was almost three Christmas's ago,, I swear I can still smell it..:rotfl
the sqs I am talking about ,took forever to get tail fluff...they were the only puny tailed sqs I have ever relaesed...those tails:shakehead
Fred ironically called them THE Fluffy Tails and still does...some are still here...they really are bushy now..:peace

Have you been to this vet or just refered...this is great news!:thumbsup
Let us know when you go...always looking for sq friendly vets!:)

Carolyn, I am low on SMZ-TMP and cannot afford to replace right now, hhowever I can share fresh metro if everyone thinks that is a good treatment plan...

[momma2boo]

Carolyn, I am low on SMZ-TMP and cannot afford to replace right now, hhowever I can share fresh metro if everyone thinks that is a good treatment plan...

Hey Jackie, if you can get the Rx from your vet Publix is filling ABs for NOTHING ... that's right, you heard me right ... for FREE! Ask you vet to write an Rx for a large quantity.

[Rhapsody]

Have you been to this vet or just refered...this is great news!:thumbsup
Let us know when you go...always looking for sq friendly vets!:)

Carolyn, I am low on SMZ-TMP and cannot afford to replace right now, hhowever I can share fresh metro if everyone thinks that is a good treatment plan...No, I have NOT personally been to the vet yet (was referred by an old vet I took my sons dog Reaper to when their wildlife/exotic vet left them.... plus I have talked to one of the new vets tech via Facebook/Email as they want to US "My Rehab" --Mother Natures Rescue as one of their backs for when their Main Wild Life Lady is Out Of Town..... :thumbsup

No Prob on the SMZ...... "ANY ONE" --can I use the Flagyl (that was recommended) --IF the 5 days of SMZ I have on hand does not do fully work for these 3 siblings?

[Rhapsody]

Hey Jackie, if you can get the Rx from your vet Publix is filling ABs for NOTHING ... that's right, you heard me right ... for FREE! Ask you vet to write an Rx for a large quantity.

Please EXPLAIN the ABs once again....... as to REFRESH My MEMORY..... :thankyou

[momma2boo]

Please EXPLAIN the ABs once again....... as to REFRESH My MEMORY..... :thankyou

ABs = Antibiotics
SMZ is an antibiotic and is FREE from Publix. Any antibiotic ... for human or animal.

[I Love Lucy]

Unfortunately I have had too much experience with green diarrhea, lately with hurricane Irene babies. For meds to work they have to be absorbed. The diarrhea needs to be stopped or slowed down. I swear by Pediasure with Fiber and Benefiber. When they don't work Deliver with Dialene always stops diarrhea in its tracks. I personally have not had much success with Kao. This case sounds like coccidia and I have success with SMZ/TMP.

[Twi_prime]

Hey Jackie, if you can get the Rx from your vet Publix is filling ABs for NOTHING ... that's right, you heard me right ... for FREE! Ask you vet to write an Rx for a large quantity.

Good lord, that's awesome! I've heard they're doing a certain human high blood pressure med for free too. It won't matter if the AB is written for veterinary use, will it? Edit: Oh, I see you posted it doesn't matter if it's for human or critter. Wow, so cool...

[Rescue04]

If they could only do it for Baytil!.......on my second vile for the season - OUCH!.....how are they doing now hun?

[Rhapsody]

Start of Day 3 - and two of the three squirrels are showing signs of formed pooped --3rd Squirrel still 1/2 & 1/2 --:multi

[Rhapsody]

The 3 siblings have completed 5 days of their 7 days of medications and two of them are doing wonderfully --with formed poop that are half brown and half way back to their golden nugget yellow. :thumbsup

The third squirrel Elvira still has me concerned...... while her poop has turned back to its golden nugget yellow it is still runny and last night her belly got so bloated that I thought it was "bloat" due to the diarrhea --so I gave her some infant gas x after giving her nightly meds and then I gentle went to push around on her tummy to see if it was hard and she gushed out a stream of urine......

Least to say her belly was no longer bloated - could this back of her bladder / kidney be from the meds (SMZ) - or could the coccidia of gotten into her vaginal area and created a secondary issue?
She is doing fine this morning and her belly seems to be ok atm (very slight bloat)...... I made sure her bladder was fully empty last night before I went to bed.

I still have some Cipro made up from the little guy (Rocky) that passed away and I can start Elvira on some of it --if any one thinks it might be might be needed.
(250 mg - in 20cc water) * (she weighs - 75 grams)

:thankyou

[Rhapsody]

UPDATE:

Started Elvira and Kipper back on SMZ today (per Jackie) --Elvira still has loose poops
even though its yellow in color, and Kipper started to show signs of dark green poop
again last night....... sigh.

Thanks to Karen that will be their New Foster Mommy for ME starting tomorrow.... :Love_Icon
Thanks to StarFairy --for being their chauffeur from Lakeland to Sanford tomorrow....... :Love_Icon

YOU are both GREATLY APPRECIATED!! -- :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Rhapsody]

Hey KAREN!! - :wave123

I have the original mommy that found the babies you so graciously took from me and gave a home to now asking about their well being....... got any updates for us?

Please share...... Thanks. :Love_Icon

[djarenspace9]

:wave123 They're happy and healthy, so I could not ask for more!

They are in that stage where they alert for ANYTHING they see out the window...a shadow, a bug, a cat...:D
After running to their cage 15 times to see what was wrong, I had to start ignoring it for my own sanity. :poke

They are also getting hard to hold onto during feedings so I am going to teach them all about drinking out of a dish in the next few days. :thumbsup

Their favorite thing to do is try to escape out the cage door when I open it.

Gotta love em! :tilt

[Rhapsody]

AWESOME!! - and Good to HEAR...... Thanks for a Job Well DONE -- :Love_Icon