Whats next..

[Melody_S]

I am just looking for a bit of guidence from the experianced rehabbers. My babies Lynyrd and Squizz are now approx 5 weeks and have therir cute little eyes open. I have the henrys block in there (they love it already,nibbling on it ) and I have a stick in there (applewood, is that okay?) and they have been chewing on it already. As of this am they are 66g-Squizz and 79g-Lynyrd. They have been consistantly gaining weight on the FV and were under weight when I initally found them. I am including pictures of both I know how tsb loves them :)

<a href="http://s1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc515/melody_s/?action=view&amp;current=IMG00350-20110903-1010.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc515/melody_s/IMG00350-20110903-1010.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>--Squizz is hard to photograph, she moves REAL fast

<a href="http://s1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc515/melody_s/?action=view&amp;current=IMG00353-20110903-1011.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc515/melody_s/IMG00353-20110903-1011.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>--Lynyrd is a mush :)

[Melody_S]

(sorry!)

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc515/melody_s/IMG00350-20110903-1010.jpg--Squizz

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc515/melody_s/IMG00353-20110903-1011.jpg--Lynyrd

[Nancy in New York]

Adorable, good job!
Keep them on the formula as long as possible. It's great "health insurance".
Small twigs and block are fine for now, watch out for chocking. No grapes, they tend to have problems with the skin and the inside white section, I just eliminate them. Keep up the great work!

[pappy1264]

How much and how often are you feeding them the fv? They look a little on the lean side to me. Continue to feed to fv, and only a couple of hhb's per day (actually I would do one, they are pretty young and you want them getting most of the nutrition from the formula for now). I usually start to try to introduce bowl feeding around 7 weeks (they usually make a mess, but that is part of learning...lol) Continue to give them the fv for as long as they will take it. When they get a little older, you can slowly start introducing greens, veggies, and a very small amount of fruit. I usually start with blueberries, they all seem to like them and perfect size for holding! Continue to encourage the formula and hhb's first. They should be eating 5-7% of their weight at every feeding (you should weigh them every day, or at least every other, so you can stay constant with the 5-7%, and at their weight, you want to try to get 5 feedings in a day, if possible. As they get a little heavier, you can go to 4, as you introduce other foods. Always make sure they have something to nibble during the night, if they get up hungry.)

[Nancy in New York]

How much and how often are you feeding them the fv? They look a little on the lean side to me. Continue to feed to fv, and only a couple of hhb's per day (actually I would do one, they are pretty young and you want them getting most of the nutrition from the formula for now). I usually start to try to introduce bowl feeding around 7 weeks (they usually make a mess, but that is part of learning...lol) Continue to give them the fv for as long as they will take it. When they get a little older, you can slowly start introducing greens, veggies, and a very small amount of fruit. I usually start with blueberries, they all seem to like them and perfect size for holding! Continue to encourage the formula and hhb's first. They should be eating 5-7% of their weight at every feeding (you should weigh them every day, or at least every other, so you can stay constant with the 5-7%, and at their weight, you want to try to get 5 feedings in a day, if possible. As they get a little heavier, you can go to 4, as you introduce other foods. Always make sure they have something to nibble during the night, if they get up hungry.)

I think you're right pappy. After rereading the weight, they are a little on the light side for eyes opened babies. You can fatten them up in no time with the FV.:thumbsup

[Melody_S]

I do also believe they are under weight, I looked at some charts and I cant see why. I feed them approx 4cc -squizz and 5cc-lynyrd every 4.5 to 5 hrs, even at night. I am consistant with feeding them and they are consistantly gainign weight, I weight them every other day or so. I just put the block in there yestrerday for them to get used to it. Although they do seem to pick at it, maybe more so just to chew on it lol theyve made quite a mess.

[Melody_S]

also can anyone please tell me the procedure in how they make there FV formula. I feel maybe I am making it incorrectly and thats why they arent gaining weight as fast. I do not put it in the microwave to heat it up, I heat up a bowl of water and put the mug into it. But maybe there is a way to improve the way I first make the formula.

[pappy1264]

Are you making it 2/1 water/formula? I would feed more often then that, I would feed them at every 4 hours. Max is 189 grams and he is eating 12 cc's every 4.5 hours. I would go with every 4 hours during the day, no late night feeding, although before you go to bed is good. See how they do on that. Which fv are you feeding (for under or over 4 weeks?) Just think they need more food (of course, without causing diarrhea. Watch for signs of it--pasty, light yellow poop is usually an indication of overfeeding, so if that happens, you would move up to 4.5 hours. But I think at their size, every four hours is good.)

Also, at 66 grams, 7% is 4.62 (I round off the the next highest, so 4.75 cc's) and 79 would be 5.53, so 5.5 cc's, so you can up the amount, as well. I would start with moving the time closer, to every 4 hours, see how they do and in a day or two, recalculate 7% based on weight. You should check it every day to make sure they are consistently getting that percentage, esp. with them being smaller. As they get bigger, you can check every couple days and calculate as needed.

[lila01]

What sweet babies! My Lila will b six weeks tomorrow and weighed in at 172g this morning. They r a little skinny so I would add heavy whipping cream to the formula as well. Make sure with someone else first but that should put weight on quick! How r their poops? Should b solid little pellet like things! Lol how they start putting on weight for u! I also use the apple wood sticks and Lila likes to chew on those too! Not so much the blocks yet but she will nibble at them! Keep up the good work!!!

[Melody_S]

thank uou for the replies! I was feeding them the 5% so I think you are right and 7% would be a good idea, thank you. I am feeding them the 32/40 still because I figured it would be better since they are so small. Am I right? I added YoBaby Full Fat Yogurt Bananna flavored to it because I found that the whipping cream hurt their bellys and gave them diarreah. Their poops are good I believe, Dark yelllow to an dark orange-y color. I did find apple wood sticks at Pet-Co are those ok? I put one in there and they are chewing on it kinda. As for the block, lol, there mostly just nawing at it and making a mess. What would be suggested as a good schedule for them, I last fed them at 3:30 so 7:30 then 11:30 then not till 7:30 again? I never minded waking up in the night for these cute babies. I want them to be fat and healthy :)

[lila01]

Yeah I got my apple wood sticks at petsmart so those r fine! Sorry did t know u already tried the whipping cream!:dono Lol yes 7:30 and so on! I just stoped Lilas middle of the night feeding cause she is groaning like a weed but I don't think it would hurt to do middle of the night! I prob would if it was me but that's just me! Need more pics of those sweet babies!!:poke Hahahaha

[pappy1264]

Normally at eyes open, you would not need the night feeding, and I think with going a little shorter between feedings and the extra they will be getting (7%) they will start to put weight on. Remember to keep weighing, and adjusting the amounts. Yes, those times are fine. I try to start my feedings a little earlier then 7:30, usually around 6 am or so, if possible.

[lila01]

Pappy I start at 6:00am also! Her last feeding is at 10 or 10:30 pm! She seems to do great with that!

[lila01]

I saw in the other thread that u asked about the boost. I hope someone let's u know about that cause it seems to work great! I haven't used it but the pics and everything that I e seen on here it is a great product! Maybe post that question here as well

[Melody_S]

I would start as early as I should, I last fed them at 330, should I instead feed then at 6 then start every 4 hours from then on? I htink thats what I am going to do. Its easier for me since I go to work at about 7. I appriciate all the help on TSB its so good to know I can come here for all my worries! Glad to know about the applewood sticks I was worried since there not "fresh" they werent good.

p.s Ill post better pics of the babies soon :thankyou

[4skwerlz]

I just wanted to mention that diluting Fox Valley with yogurt reduces its fat content. Even "full fat" yogurt is only 3% fat.

Also, all the sugar in flavored yogurt (a lot) can cause or worsen diarrhea.

If you must dilute any formula with yogurt due to diarrhea, replace part of the water with plain yogurt. Do not mix the formula up and then add yogurt. Again, this dilutes all the nutrients, including the fat.

Hope this helps.

[Melody_S]

thank you for that. To add "fat" into the FV I should instead mix less water and add yogurt? I was fine with them just having th e FV nothing in it. Does anyone suggest I use the Ultra boost? Is it called Pure whey Protein Isolate on Henrys? I am willing to do whatever needed to make my Babies healthy.

[4skwerlz]

thank you for that. To add "fat" into the FV I should instead mix less water and add yogurt? I was fine with them just having th e FV nothing in it. Does anyone suggest I use the Ultra boost? Is it called Pure whey Protein Isolate on Henrys? I am willing to do whatever needed to make my Babies healthy.

I would mix the FV straight, according to the directions on the back of the label. Start there. Then maybe add the Ultraboost, which is designed to work with the FV. Again, follow the directions.

Henry's doesn't sell the Ultraboost. You can get it from Nick at Fox Valley. Looking at the before and after pictures of Nancy in New York's babies, sure looks like it worked wonders. I don't think it's very expensive.

[pappy1264]

No, don't feed that early, do what you can tonight, then start earlier tomorrow (from 3:30, to 6:00 would be asking for trouble, I think.) I would not add the ultra boost just yet. Get them on a good, solid schedule. Just fv, made 2/1, every 4 hours, 7% of their body weight, start earlier in the morning feeding them so you can get an extra feeding in during those hours, and no middle of the night feeding, let them get that good, solid rest during that time. They will catch up, if you start doing too much, you run the risk of them getting diarrhea, which will set them back.

[Milo's Mom]

thank you for that. To add "fat" into the FV I should instead mix less water and add yogurt? I was fine with them just having th e FV nothing in it. Does anyone suggest I use the Ultra boost? Is it called Pure whey Protein Isolate on Henrys? I am willing to do whatever needed to make my Babies healthy.

I've used it and my "problem baby" Miss Zoey, who would not eat, was not gaining enough weight to keep up with her 4 siblings, started eating without as much of an argument and started gaining weight and is now a gorgeous squirrel with a tail that has got to be nearly a foot long living a great life in the trees.
I will use it again without even thinking twice about it. In my opinion, Ultra Boost ROCKS!!:thumbsup

[Mrs Skul]

thank you for the replies! I was feeding them the 5% so I think you are right and 7% would be a good idea, thank you. I am feeding them the 32/40 still because I figured it would be better since they are so small. Am I right? I added YoBaby Full Fat Yogurt Bananna flavored to it because I found that the whipping cream hurt their bellys and gave them diarrhea. Their poops are good I believe, Dark yellow to an dark orange-y color. I did find apple wood sticks at Pet-Co are those ok? I put one in there and they are chewing on it kinda. As for the block, lol, there mostly just nawing at it and making a mess. What would be suggested as a good schedule for them, I last fed them at 3:30 so 7:30 then 11:30 then not till 7:30 again? I never minded waking up in the night for these cute babies. I want them to be fat and healthy :)

Melody When you mix the formula up. Add the heavy Cream in after it is all shaken and mixed. If mixing it all at once that makes it lumpy and butter.
1TBS Formula
2TBS Warm Water
1/2 tbs yogurt
1TBS Heavy Whipping Cream
Mix the first 3 to gather very well. Then add the Heavy Cream. Shake it once. That is ready, take out what you need and put the rest in the fridge. It is only good for 24 hr. I would still be feeding them At the least 5 times a day. More if they are awake and asking for it. :D Make sure you feed just be for go to bed. What is the wt. on your little ones? When did the eyes open? Are you sure they are Weeks old? They are a little skinny. Adding the Cream and feeding more often will help them gain weight.
Now I would start out with a Small Chunk of the Henry's Block. Watch for them to start picking up and chewing on it. Most of the time they will shred it, and be messy. They love doing that. Then they start eating it. :thumbsup3Keep the rest of the block in the Freezer. Just pull out a few at a time. The sticks from PetsMart and PetCo are fine when older. Do you have Oak Trees, Maple, Pear, Apple, Tree. Just cut off small twigs for them to start nibbling on. Also Put a piece of Apple the size of your thumb. (Be sure to peal it and take the cor out.) Never feed Apple Seeds, They are Toxic. But the Apple tree limbs are ok.:thumbsup5

[Melody_S]

To begin :) They are approx 5weeks old acording to charts and my research. I found them at approx 10 days old. They just opened their eyes yesterday and as of this AM they weighed 66g -Squizz (my girl ) and 80g- Lynyrd (my boy) I had been feeding them about 5% of their body weight every 4.5hrs including in the middle of the night and yesterday was the first day I put a block in the cage as well. They made more of a mess than eating it, but nonetheless seemed to really enjoy it. The apple should be a great touch. At what age do you introduce foods like cherios and exotic things like avacado? I love these guys to death:Love_Icon and only want the best for them. It has been easy and with less worry thanks to you guys on TSB !

[Melody_S]

I did read that I should be feeding 7% every 4hrs which I have begun to do. I forgot to ask I am unsure about adding the Whipping cream because it gave both the babies diarreah. I am still nervous about forgoing the middle of night feeding ( I wont mind the un interupted sleep) I never minded getting up for them. What do you think?

[Mrs Skul]

When they start eating the Block and Apple really good. You can put a few cheerio and some Oatmeal. The old fashion kind not the Minuit.
(Leave it dry!) :poke The Avocado I would waite. They might try sucking on it and choke. The same thing with a grape. (Be sure to peal them)
May be eating 3 to 4 times a day or at 7 weeks.:thinking Just when they stop sucking on things trying to get milk to come out. :D
When they start looking for more to do and eat. You will know when they are ready. :thumbsup3

PS
You can hold the avocado for them to take bites from it. That is fine.
When you start ButterNut Squash and Acorn Squash.
Nuck it for a few seconds. Just enough to make it soft.
Have you read the Squirrel Nutrition yet? :thinking

[Mrs Skul]

If there eyes just opened. They are around 4 to 4 1/2 weeks old I am thinking. :thinking I would feed every 4 hr even through the night if you don't mind. In a week or so then every 5 hr. Then If you feed at 11pm you would feed again at 6 or 7am If they are still hunger after feeding the 7% Then give them more. You just wont the tummy to feel like bread dough! (You need to fill the tummy not your hand.):poke :rotfl
Now the Cream is good for weight gain, and So is the Ultra Boost. What were you feeding be for the FoxVally? If it was the Goat milk recipe. That has Heavy Cream in it. When switching over from what ever they were on, to the FV. If no diluted and gradually changing over. They will get loose stools or soft ones. :D Some times when mixing the formula. If you do not mix the heavy cream in last. It will get a little chunky. It just turns to butter. When formula is heated. There will be more Butter/Cream in each syringe full. When mixed right, it is just thick, creamy, and white. :thumbsup But like I said either one will do the trick. Both are excellent to use. :thumbsup5

PS
Sorry it took me so long to get the last of this typed out. I keep getting PM Help needed Questions and the phone has just stopped ringing.:D Are you using Nipples on your syringes? :thinking Have a Good Night. Kiss the 2 little ones for me. :grouphug

[Skul]

:wave123 Melony.
I'm the old fart.
You're doing fine.
Easy to get overloaded with too much info.
Go slow, you'll be OK.
Sit back, do your best to help the little one.

In case you're wondering, ya, that's her, above.:rotfl

[Melody_S]

It has been a real learning experinance thus far I must admit. I at first was mis informed and bought the espilac, I used that for 2 days before learning I was wrong. I then went and used the Goats Milk recipe for a few days before I got the FV. In that time their poor stiamchs were not right. Having diareah many times. I assume maybe thats why their behind on the weight gain. I am feeding them through the night and I tried the nippels and they didnt really liek them. I find it MUCH easier to control the amount of liquid and the placement of the tip of the syringe with out it. Them being a week younfer than I imagined how will that effect everything? I thought babies first opened their eyes at 5 weeks? I cant wait to see them try the apple. I love watching their expressions.

:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou To all that have been able to help me so far with rasing my two littleones. They thank you the most :)

[4skwerlz]

It has been a real learning experinance thus far I must admit. I at first was mis informed and bought the espilac, I used that for 2 days before learning I was wrong. I then went and used the Goats Milk recipe for a few days before I got the FV. In that time their poor stiamchs were not right. Having diareah many times. I assume maybe thats why their behind on the weight gain. I am feeding them through the night and I tried the nippels and they didnt really liek them. I find it MUCH easier to control the amount of liquid and the placement of the tip of the syringe with out it. Them being a week younfer than I imagined how will that effect everything? I thought babies first opened their eyes at 5 weeks? I cant wait to see them try the apple. I love watching their expressions.

:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou To all that have been able to help me so far with rasing my two littleones. They thank you the most :)

Just feed by their weight and you should be fine. If you're using FV 20/50, that already has extra fat in it. No need to add anything to it. If diarrhea happens again, let us know.

Don't introduce apple or any other new foods until they are very stable and gaining weight on formula with no diarrhea. Introducing new foods can cause diarrhea. Right now they just need formula.

If you can control the formula better without nipples and the babies like it that way, that's fine.

[pappy1264]

Just feed by their weight and you should be fine. If you're using FV 20/50, that already has extra fat in it. No need to add anything to it. If diarrhea happens again, let us know.

Don't introduce apple or any other new foods until they are very stable and gaining weight on formula with no diarrhea. Introducing new foods can cause diarrhea. Right now they just need formula.

If you can control the formula better without nipples and the babies like it that way, that's fine.

__________________
:goodpost

That is what I was trying to get at. Go by weight, just fv, you can still do a night time feeding for a few days, so they can catch up on weight. I would not offer other foods aside from the block just yet (make sure to change the block out, as they tend to piddle on it...lol) Everything you add, their systems have to adjust to, which can cause stomach upset and diarrhea. They will gain weight, they will catch up, I speak from experience on that! Make sure the formula is very warm, almost hot.....they like it better that way. You're doing a great job!

[Melody_S]

:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou To all that have been helping me thoughout these past few weeks. Before the FV I was feeding them the GM recipe but w/o the cream. Could that be the cause of the low weight gain? The cream hurt their stomachs terribly and I couldnt have them keep having diareah. WHen I first found them, I thougth them to be approx 10 days old. Were they younger you think? I thought squirrels opened their eyes at 5weeks+. WHen they forst were found I too was under the mis information that esbilac was the best. So I gave that to them for 2days before (thanks to TSB) I went out and bought the GM recipe then about 4-5 days later they were on the FV ( I of course phased them into it) and they have been consistantly gaining weight. Just not an incedible amount. I am egar to try the apple I love seeing their expressions. THank you for all your time and thoughts :bowdown

[Melody_S]

p.s yes I have been reading throught the Nutrition section and have been finding it very helpful!

[Melody_S]

( I duplicated a post by mistake) Anyway thank you to all for the vote of confidence. I am sucessfully able to help my babies the best way possible with the help of all of you. I will post picutres soon to show off the teamwork progress ! :grouphug :wahoo

[4skwerlz]

Before the FV I was feeding them the GM recipe but w/o the cream. Could that be the cause of the low weight gain?

Yes.

[jo_schmoe]

I agree with M2B and 4Skwerls.
The FV is by itself complete.
Squirrels are all so different....what works for one doesn't always work for another....they are just like our skin babies!
I used the ultra boost when my foxers were babies as the cream did the same this as you mentioned. To be honest.....they didn't need it at all. They were plenty porky...and still are! I did not use it with my Reds.
If you decide to go with the ultra boost....when your squirrel is at a good weight...take them off of it. Being porky isn't always good...it just seems that way to us squammas! I have to control myself daily from trying to "Fatten up dem babes!" It can cause joint discomfort, heart problems and also weaken bones.

[Melody_S]

What would have been the right thing to do? I thought that taking that out would have helped, I realize now that contributed to them being under weight. It was making their sotmach sick though. What wouldhave been the alternative?

[Melody_S]

Im glad to hear that they should be fine, As you said I just want the best for them. They are so cute and just a bit string bean like lol. With time the FV will put on the grams they need ? I know they have a logn way to go. What is healthy weight for a releaseable squirrel? ( not that I am rushing this moment AT all :) )

[jo_schmoe]

Im glad to hear that they should be fine, As you said I just want the best for them. They are so cute and just a bit string bean like lol. With time the FV will put on the grams they need ? I know they have a logn way to go. What is healthy weight for a releaseable squirrel? ( not that I am rushing this moment AT all :) )
Yes....the Fv will put on the weight they need and I find it actually keep them at a good weight. All eight of my squirrels get it daily and they range from 1 year to 14 weeks.
Im not sure what kind of squirrel you have so I can't comment on the ideal weight for release. I would assume that looking up the normal weight for your type of squirrel would give a good basis to go by. I think it also depends on your area. ( Climate and cold)

[pappy1264]

In future, do the gm, with full fat yogurt (I used greek full fat, had the highest fat content and actually never used the cream, as my babies got diarrhea drom the cream, as well. They gained weight on it, and eventually was doing 50% gm recipe/mixed with 50% full stregnth fv, until the got a bit bigger, they gained great on that and after a couple/few weeks, I had them on just fv. My guys had horrible stomach issues (it is the Frank, Furter and Bean post in the nursery section if you want to read it....it is long.) The biggest thing is esp. when you have ones that seem to have a more sensitive digestive system (but really all babies) you have to go slow and steady, too much change or new stuff can throw things off again. I think they are a bit younger then you think, more in the 5 week age (eyes generally open at 4.5 weeks). I didn't Bean would catch up...she was so skinny....but you would never know she ever had an issue to look at her now! So go slow, give time to let the fv with more feedings do its job. I wouldn't give the apple just yet, just the block and formula....the time will come before you know it when they are eating all kinds of things....enjoy them being little!

[jo_schmoe]

In future, do the gm, with full fat yogurt (I used greek full fat, had the highest fat content and actually never used the cream, as my babies got diarrhea drom the cream, as well. They gained weight on it, and eventually was doing 50% gm recipe/mixed with 50% full stregnth fv, until the got a bit bigger, they gained great on that and after a couple/few weeks, I had them on just fv. My guys had horrible stomach issues (it is the Frank, Furter and Bean post in the nursery section if you want to read it....it is long.) The biggest thing is esp. when you have ones that seem to have a more sensitive digestive system (but really all babies) you have to go slow and steady, too much change or new stuff can throw things off again. I think they are a bit younger then you think, more in the 5 week age (eyes generally open at 4.5 weeks). I didn't Bean would catch up...she was so skinny....but you would never know she ever had an issue to look at her now! So go slow, give time to let the fv with more feedings do its job. I wouldn't give the apple just yet, just the block and formula....the time will come before you know it when they are eating all kinds of things....enjoy them being little!
:goodpost :goodpost :goodpost