Eating less?

[skylavaulter]

My two girls haven't been eating as much today as they have over the last few days. Background: received Thursday, with pneumonia. Been on baytril since friday. 4 weeks old - one was 57g and the other was 59g on Friday. They are now 64g & 63g, so good weight gain!

Bumped them up to 2:1 ratio FV formula yesterday evening, and today they've been eating less. They were eating 3.5-4cc's every 4 hours. The past few feedings they've been eating 2-3 cc's, and that's even after I was out and had a 5 hour gap between feedings. I have noticed that their milk line isn't completely gone by the time their next feeding is due - maybe they just aren't that hungry since they still have a little milk in there? :dono

Poops are light brown and formed, but soft. I wouldn't call it diarrhea by any means, but it's not dark brown at all. They went 4 feedings without a single poop, and then their little butts just about exploded last feeding - it just kept coming out and coming out! Constipated maybe? :dono They're peeing like champs.

If it's not one thing, it's another :shakehead Thanks for any advice! (sorry for the novel!)

[gs1]

glad for the novel.... more info the better....

just some thoughts/questions...i'm not a rehabber

fox valley is 2 water to 1 formula?

if you've just transitioned ..especially if you didn't do it slowly ... like 1/4 new formula and 3/4 of old etc.. (then 1/2 & 1/2 , then 3/4 new and 1/4 old)... then that could be some explanation....

the fox valley does take longer to go through the digestive tract and i think it's more filling (and very nutritious etc) so feeding less and spaced out longer is not something to panic about....

as long as the squirrels are warm when feeding (cold squirrels will not drink) and the formula is warm (kept warm in warm water on a cup heater for example) ....

and finally ..... ...wait until the milk line is gone or you'll risk bloat ....which is very serious....

so don't worry unless someone like ir or jackie or mrs. skul or natures gift or nancy .....(our more experienced members) ... tells you to.... so don't worry for now ...and one of them will be on in the next few hours....

:grouphug

ps ..no idea about the back up of poops but i'm guessing it's something to do with the transitioning... and maybe it's a one time problem.... hopefully ....

sometimes they can benefit from a little bit of hydration between feedings especially if constipated or diarrhea ... and we've a great homemade recipe in the emergency forums.... but you can only give it 24 hours...after that just plain water between feedings to get more hydration into the squirrel... if they're dehydrated they won't feel like drinking...and is actually dangerous to them.....

[gs1]

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11782


homemade Pedialyte:

1 tsp salt (teaspoon)
3 Tbsp sugar (tablespoon)
1 quart warm water
Mix all ingredients in warm water. Store in refrigerator.

How to Prepare the Pedialyte
Use a plastic syringe (with or without a nipple). Never use pet nursers or doll bottles. They will choke the baby. Fill a coffee mug with hot water. Fill the syringe with Pedialyte and place it in the mug for a couple of minutes. Squirt a drop on the inside of your wrist to make sure the liquid isn’t too hot. It should feel barely warm on your skin.

[skylavaulter]

Thanks! I had them on pedialyte when I got them - they were terribly dehydrated, they were on it for about 20 hours, then switched to FV. 4:1 friday night into saturday, 3:1 saturday evening into sunday, and 2:1 as of sunday morning. Just checked their turgor and they seem to be kinda dehydrated again to me. :thinking Darn! I had just gotten some weight on them, and now it's back to pedialyte :shakehead - should I just do pedialyte between feedings or just stop formula all together again?

Side note: Could they be dehydrated from the heating pad? I just got that today (was using a rice buddy) and it's definitely kicking out more heat, even on low. They're nice and toasty, but I'm wondering if that's part of the problem. :dono

[gs1]

the heating pad only under half the box .... so they can escape the heat... a member has just had a little one die because of a malfunctioning heating pad... :( ...

ps: underneath the plastic box ...not inside with the squirrels.

[gs1]

Thanks! I had them on pedialyte when I got them - they were terribly dehydrated, they were on it for about 20 hours, then switched to FV. 4:1 friday night into saturday, 3:1 saturday evening into sunday, and 2:1 as of sunday morning. Just checked their turgor and they seem to be kinda dehydrated again to me. :thinking Darn! I had just gotten some weight on them, and now it's back to pedialyte :shakehead - should I just do pedialyte between feedings or just stop formula all together again?

Side note: Could they be dehydrated from the heating pad? I just got that today (was using a rice buddy) and it's definitely kicking out more heat, even on low. They're nice and toasty, but I'm wondering if that's part of the problem. :dono


i'm worried about the heating pad and the dehydration... dangerous...

without really knowing anything i'd say go with pedialyte again ... maybe between the feedings or go back to watered fox valley ... i'm assuming that 4:1 is 4 of water to 1 of fox valley? ..

i really don't know what to advise... in a panic i'd guess make sure they're hydrated otherwise they can't digest anyway ...and the formula will just spoil inside them....so maybe go back to pedialyte and no formula unless advised by someone else....

i'm going to pm you some phone numbers of people you can call.... is your pmworking?? or i'll email you....

[gs1]

pm sent... both mrs skuls phone number and jackies.... :grouphug

[skylavaulter]

Thank you...I'm gonna go back to pedialyte. The last time they ate was at 5 hours ago and take a look at their bellies (just took these pictures). They still have milk lines! One drank only 2ccs (the first pic) and the other drank 3ccs (the second picture). It's been 5 hours so I do't know why I'm still seeing milk in there!

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Also - the heating pad was IN the tank with them. I'll move it under the tank now. I have a feeling that's my issue. I feel like a horrible squammy! :( They were doing so well!

The picture below is of zoe (the one in the first belly shot). She just looks kinda crappy to me, like shrunken (aka dehydrated) if that makes sense.

[gs1]

yes my first guess is pedialyte too ... make sure it's warm and they're warm...and it's fresh ...it doesn't keep ....

don't worry about the huge amounts that we use ..it's just easier to make up in a large quantity ....

but please!!! i'm urging you to call mrs skul!!! she really needs to see this.....

i'm totally inexperienced and you can use her advice....

as well stop beating yourself up ... it happens to everyone... just one mistake and it can be fatal but!!! thats why you've got to keep learning and reading.... so many things can go wrong.....

also why we usually recommend if possible for babies to go to tsb rehabbers or experienced members....

but you're learning... you're doing the best that you can....:grouphug

ps: call mrs skul!!!:poke

[gs1]

that level of dehydration is very,very dangerous..... again ...call mrs skul...if you have access to sub q fluids and can do it..i'd do that ...if you have an emergency vets that treats squirrels i'd do that too....

sub qs would be ideal ... but if not possible ...pedialyte slowly don't get it into her lungs etc....... :grouphug

if anything comes out her nose ...tip her upside down and use toilet paper to wipe it away.....that could develop into pneumonia and that's another fatal thing without baytril ....:grouphug

[Mrs Skul]

Thanks GS1 I am on the Phone Right now!:thumbsup3 :thankyou

[skylavaulter]

Talked with Mrs Skul and will be in touch throughout the night with her. Babies just took 1.5cc warmed pedialyte each. Will offer again in a half hour or so. I'll keep updating (who sleeps with baby squirrels in the house? Not to mention my 6 month old HUMAN baby!) Thank you GS1 for that info! :thankyou

[Mrs Skul]

That is wonderful news Skylavaulter.
Keep me posted! :thumbsup3

[skylavaulter]

Each baby had roughly 4ccs pedialyte in the last two hours. Starting to spunk up a little and mad that I keep yanking them out of their cage. Turgor's still slow but improving slightly. I need a nap lol - I will post more a little later! Thank you everyone for your help. :grouphug Hopefully it's smoother sailing from now on.

[CritterMom]

Put a custard cup or the like inside the enclosure (tuck it in a corner and try to put it on the heating pad part) with a piece of water saturated sponge or wadded up paper towel or cotton balls in it and keep them wet - it will raise the humidity in the enclosure.

I would suggest a sterlite plastic container - housewares dept in Walmart - rather than glass aquarium. They stay warmer - glass is inherantly cold and you are always fighting temps.

[island rehabber]

hi skylavaulter! You're in good hands with Mrs Skul and gs1, but I want to jump in and say first of all that TAN, FORMED poops are GOOD. Babies on formula will not have dark brown or black poop anymore -- that is ONLY when they are on their mamma's milk. They will often still have some in their systems and finders will see brown poops 4-5 days later, but it will eventually turn tan to gold to mustard when they are on the FV. As for every 4 hours -- too often for FV at their age. They may very well want to go 4.5 - 5.5 hrs at this point. The milk line will never totally disappear, so don't wait for that. Hydrating in between meals when you see a sort of wrinkly or shriveled look is a GREAT idea and can't hurt them. Contrary to what we think, it will not "spoil their appetite". On the contrary, it INCREASES their appetites. :D :thumbsup

[skylavaulter]

:goodpost Thanks for the info! That answered a lot of questions that weren't really addressed on this board yet. As far as an update...both just took 1-1.5cc pedialyte and followed it up a half hour later with 3-4cc's formula with added cream and yogurt (per mrs skul). They were happy to take it. They're much spunkier but I'm still not liking the turgor :shakehead - it's better a little, but not where i want it!

[skylavaulter]

Update: Zoe just took 5cc's (the most ever!) and Tess took 3.25 but seemed nice and full on that. Both were fidgeting around and making little squirrel noises, so we're doing better. No burns (Mrs Skul was concerned about that) :thumbsup . Turgor still isn't the greatest but it's getting a little better. Will continue water between syringes at feeding time. That was a scare but it looks like we're over the hump. They've both gained a few grams today so that makes me happy, and they're peeing/pooping like champs.

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi Skylavaulter
I am glad to hear Zoe and Turgor have their appetite back. Just make sure not to over feed. Tummy should be like Bread Doe. :D (Soft and spongy)
Do you have a current weight on them? Can you Post some pictures?
""The old saying is, 1 step forward and 2 steps back!"":D It just takes time to get back where they were. How is the Dehydration now? :dono
You should be back to feeding every 3 1/2 to 5 hr by now. :thumbsup3Call the Cell number if you need me tonight. I am running out shopping for Squirrel Veg! :D Keep up the good work.
Take care and I Love these 2 Little Angels. :Love_Icon
PS
How did the interview go today? :thinking

[skylavaulter]

I meant to call you - it's been a crazy day but things are going well with the babies. Tess was 65g at 10pm last night - tonight at 11:30pm she was 70g.
Zoe was 64g at 10pm last night - tonight at 11:30pm she was 69g. So they've each gained 5g in the last 24 hrs.

Zoe (the picture from yesterday of the dehydrated baby was of Zoe. Still skinnier than her sister, but way better than yesterday!):
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Tess (she looks a bit chunkier to me):
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Both the girls :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon
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[skylavaulter]

Turgor's .... ok. It goes down, but slowly, and they won't stay still long enough for me to see if it stays slightly tented. They're definitely looking and acting better. I've never seen their skin bounce back completely elastic, though, so it might just be a thing with them. They're on 4-5 hour feedings now - both took between 4 & 5 cc's at 11:30pm :thumbsup
Oh, and interview went very well :thumbsup I'm 99.9% sure I got the job! I'll hear back tomorrow. :multi :wott :multi

[Mrs Skul]

:alright.gif Zoe andTurgor Look 100% better. Way to go! :wahoo
WOW! :Love_Icon I love the picture with the two of them Sleeping. :Love_Icon You need to send it in for the TSB Calendar.:thumbsup3
Look at those Sweet, and Innocent looking Little Angels.
Keep me posted, and Let me know when you stare them there own Thread. :thumbsup5

[skylavaulter]

Aren't they sweet?!? :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon How do I submit a photo for the calendar? Also, they have their own thread in the nursery "meet zoe and tess" if you wanna take a look :thumbsup . I did notice a little peeling skin on Zoe's inner thighs and I think that's a result from the heating pad fiasco. I'm just glad it wasn't worse :shakehead . Thanks for all your help! Not many people would so gladly lend a hand at 2am :rotfl .