Skin problem. Possibly mange?

[The G]

Hey all. This will be my first post here.
I’ve been raising a baby squirrel for at least 2 to 3 weeks now. (This may be my 11th squirrel.)
Problem is the little guy has developed a skin issue. I’ve been browsing around the forum and have come to the conclusion that he has mange but I’m not certain and don’t want to take action until I’m 100% positive.
I’ll include what photos I have and a description.

Description:
Dry flaky skin. What looks like tiny white scabs all over his body. Very clear on the ears and penis. If scratched at they flake off like dandruff. He can be itchy at times but nothing too serious. His underside seems to be a little red.

If it turns out to be mange is Ivermectin the only solution and can it be purchased at a local petsmart or petco? And is there anything I can do in the meantime until I can get some?

This is literally the best I can do with pictures…
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2414/pic1wd.png

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1373/pic2dm.png

[The G]

any suggestions? i'm beginning to get worried. :C

[CritterMom]

Yes, that certainly looks like mange. Much better and safer than ivermectin is Revolution - a drop on the skin between his shoulder blades and a follow up drop in the same place 30 days later and that is that. Ivermectin is deadly if not very precisely administered.

Do you have any dog or cat friends you can get some Revolution from?

[The G]

I do have a dog that I could possibly get revolution with but here's a question. I have leftover Frontline from her. Would it be ok to use that?

[CritterMom]

OK, one of our rehabbers here, UDoWhat, got the okay from her vet to use Frontline PLUS and the equivalent sold at Walmart, called PetArmor PLUS. Regular Frontline will not address the mange mites. The PetArmor Plus can be purchased without a prescription.

I have not used either of them myself.

[The G]

Seems it's just Frontline top spot so I won't be using that. PetArmor Plus seems like the best bet here. I'm assuming I should purchase the lowest weight for dogs? Also, once I have it how exactly do I apply it?

[stepnstone]

OK, one of our rehabbers here, UDoWhat, got the okay from her vet to use Frontline PLUS and the equivalent sold at Walmart, called PetArmor PLUS. Regular Frontline will not address the mange mites. The PetArmor Plus can be purchased without a prescription.
I have not used either of them myself.

Agree, if Frontline it has to be FL plus to address the mites.
Although there was no scabbing, my little girl was having some issues with hair loss under her arms & a lot of scratching. I checked and checked for fleas and never saw any. I could only assume that maybe she picked up some mites from the outside squirrels while in her outside cage since they do come to visit her. I used the PetArmor plus and it worked like a charm! Her fur came back fast and no more excessive scratching. :thumbsup

[The G]

Agree, if Frontline it has to be FL plus to address the mites.
Although there was no scabbing, my little girl was having some issues with hair loss under her arms & a lot of scratching. I checked and checked for fleas and never saw any. I could only assume that maybe she picked up some mites from the outside squirrels while in her outside cage since they do come to visit her. I used the PetArmor plus and it worked like a charm! Her fur came back fast and no more excessive scratching. :thumbsup

Ooh that's great to hear! My little guy was founded by my neighbors and I believe he was on the ground for quite a while. He's got all his fur and i'd like to take care of this before he begins scractching uncontrollably.

What specific PetArmor Plus did you buy and how much did you put on your squirrel?

[CritterMom]

I have never purchased this, but just get the puppy or kitten formula and put a drop on the skin between the shoulder blades.

[stepnstone]

Ooh that's great to hear! My little guy was founded by my neighbors and I believe he was on the ground for quite a while. He's got all his fur and i'd like to take care of this before he begins scractching uncontrollably.

What specific PetArmor Plus did you buy and how much did you put on your squirrel?

You can use either, PetArmor for cats or PetArmor+ for dogs. They both kill lice.

I prefer the one for dogs as it is compared to Frontline + with the same active ingredients of Fipronil & (S)-methoprene where PetArmor for cats is compared to Frontline top spot with same active ingredients of just the Fipronil. Dog weight is not going to matter since your only going to use a couple drops. Of course the more the dog weighs the more it's going to cost.

I put just two small drops between the shoulder blades up high. Just make sure your spreading the fur to get it on the skin. My little one showed no reactions to it at all outside of healing.

[The G]

Alright well. Got the PetArmor Plus and applied two small drops between the shoulders. We'll see how things go from here.
Thank you guys for all the help!

[stepnstone]

Good job G! :thumbsup
Be sure to give an update how things go and don't forget to mark your calendar just in case you need to administer a second treatment. Good luck with the baby. :grouphug

[The G]

So I gave my little guy the PetArmor Plus Wednesday. In the middle of the night last night he was scratching and biting pretty bad. I had to rap him up in a rag and wait for him to get sleepy before I could put him back in his cage or he would've kept scratching till the morning. He's never done this before.

I heard mange gets worse before it gets better. Is that what's happening here or is it too early to see results?

[stepnstone]

My squirrel, dogs and cats do that too for a short while after a treatment, I think the stuff gets bugs a little active trying to run for their lives. How is your little one doing with it now since it's had time to settle in?
I've never heard that about mange getting worse, wouldn't think it would.

[The G]

My squirrel, dogs and cats do that too for a short while after a treatment, I think the stuff gets bugs a little active trying to run for their lives. How is your little one doing with it now since it's had time to settle in?
I've never heard that about mange getting worse, wouldn't think it would.

I feel that is whats happening. The mange went from just little white spots everywhere to large patches of flaky skin where the hair is beginning to fall out a little. It's mostly the face, neck, and side of the arms where i'm seeing this. The area of application was between the shoulders.

Just a thought but is there any other medication out there that will help speed up the process and not interfere with the PetArmor Plus? I wouldn't want to add anymore topical treatment so maybe something I can give orally? I just hate to see the little guy like this.

[The G]

I've been doing some more research and I do believe Ivermectin is out of the question. It's been 7 days now and i'm wondering if it's safe to apply another dose of the PetArmor Plus???
this is what I mean by getting worse.
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/9400/mange1.png http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2251/mange2.png

He gets up in the middle of the night and scratches uncontrollably. He's managed to make a few cuts on his back. the only area that seems to be doing better is his belly. There is no longer any of those nasty scabs on his penis either. But aside from that his shoulders, arms, and face seem to be taking a real beating from those mites.

[stepnstone]

Making a call to see if I can get you some better answers and or ideas...

[stepnstone]

Hold on suggestings coming, can you get a weight on him?

[UDoWhat]

I think I would give him a bath in Adams flea and tick shampoo. If they have for cats and kittens I would use that one. If not use.,the one for puppies. Also to stop the itching, you can use children's Benedryl (12.5 mg/5ml). It can be purchased at Wal-Mart. Get the liquid kind . It is children's and flavored. Do you know the weight of your squirrel???
The dose is as follows-

150 grams- .12cc
200 grams- .16cc
250 grams- .2cc

I would not give a second dose of PetArmor now or the Ivermectin as of now . Let's wait and see if this helps.I will go back and read this thread from the start and see if there is anything else we can do.
Marty

[grinn75]

The active ingredient in PetArmor does not kill mange mites. Only ivermectin or Revolution which contains selemectin. You will need to treat with one of those products otherwise the mange will definitely get worse.

[UDoWhat]

PetArmour Plus does kill chewing lice which according to my Vet are aka mange mites. PetArmour Plus also aids in control of sarcoptic mange mites. It needs to be the PLUS kind. Was the one you used the PLUS version?

Marty

[stepnstone]

It appears from what you posted you did see (some results) but were having other/more issues with the scratching.
I understand there are 3 different types of mange, could be yours has something different then the sarcoptic mange where as the Pet ARmor would only work with the sarcoptic mange. Most likely was what mine had, Pet Armor worked for me!

[grinn75]

Chewing lice are different than mange mites. And yes the PetArmour Plus (it has to be the plus) can help in the control of sarcoptic mange. But only sarcoptes not any of the other species of mites. Squirrels can also get notoedric and demodex mites and hence the need for ivermectin or selemectin to kill them.

Probably more information than you wanted to know about mites and lice but I'm a biologist with a background in parisitology. :)

EDIT: Stepnstone you beat me to it!

[The G]

thank you all for the suggestions.
The PetArmor I am using IS Plus. It's the orange package that says for Dogs and puppies up to 22lbs. On the back it says it also aids in the control of sarcoptic mange infestations.
I do not know the weight of my squirrel. He's maybe 8 weeks old now. Is there a trick to weighing them or should I purchase a scale that measures in grams?

[The G]

Alright so I made a phone call to a vet and it's pretty much certain that he has one of the other two types of mange. I guess ivermectin is the only way...

could someone give me some tips on this? where to purchase, should I see a vet, etc?
I don't want to do anything wrong.

[CritterMom]

OK, so Pet Armour Plus is NOT as effective as Revoltuion.

Will your vet provide you with Revolution? Puppy type, kitten type, whatever?

[UDoWhat]

thank you all for the suggestions.
The PetArmor I am using IS Plus. It's the orange package that says for Dogs and puppies up to 22lbs. On the back it says it also aids in the control of sarcoptic mange infestations.
I do not know the weight of my squirrel. He's maybe 8 weeks old now. Is there a trick to weighing them or should I purchase a scale that measures in grams?

Do purchase a gram scale. Like a weight watches, or kitchen, or food type scale. Can be purchased at Wal-Mart Target, etc. Your little one looks to be around 200 grams. Not sure??? But to be sure you should have an accurate weight. I do think you could dose Benedryl at the 150-200 gram dosing . I would see a Vet on the Ivermectin, if possible. That is the safest way. If you can't see a Vet, I can help with the dosing of Ivermectin. I must have an accurate weight, however.

Marty

[stepnstone]

[QUOTE=grinn75]Chewing lice are different than mange mites. And yes the PetArmour Plus (it has to be the plus) can help in the control of sarcoptic mange. But only sarcoptes not any of the other species of mites. Squirrels can also get notoedric and demodex mites and hence the need for ivermectin or selemectin to kill them.

Probably more information than you wanted to know about mites and lice but I'm a biologist with a background in parisitology. :)

Actually no, it's not! I'm always interested in learning...

[The G]

OK, so Pet Armour Plus is NOT as effective as Revoltuion.

Will your vet provide you with Revolution? Puppy type, kitten type, whatever?

I could probably get my hands on revolution but I think i'm taking the ivermectin route. I just don't trust these topical medications. I have bad experience with it with my dog and now a squirrel.

I'm going to try and get him the bath and benedryl today along with that scale.

If I can't see a vet could someone give me a link to where I can purchase ivermectin? Is it available online only or can I find it at a pet store? what are the brand names?

[UDoWhat]

I can help, but on my way out to an appointment. I believe it can be purchased in a tractor supply or where equine supplies are sold. Farm type store. I need to be sure of info before advising further. I will be back this afternoon. I need a weight, please. Others may be able to advise here also.

Marty

[grinn75]

You can ivermectin through Chris's Squirrels & More in liquid form,
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/product/1560/ivermectin-50-ml.htm

Or Henry's Healthy Pets has it in tablet form for much cheaper,
http://www.henryspets.com/products/Ivermectin.html

I have the liquid form but have only ever used it on some of my wilds. 1 drop on a pecan and they were cured. Never had to redose so was lucky but I know many people have had to dose them again over a few weeks.

With your little guy an exact dosage would be best, don't want to overdose. That's why I prefer the revolution if the squirrel is handlable, it takes a lot of revolution to overdose them. But I understand your apprehension if you have had a bad experience.

I did a search and found some other threads on mange and ivermectin use. There might dosages buried in there. Otherwise I'm sure someone will come back with an exact dosage once you get an accurate weight.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=648537#post648537

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28556&highlight=ivermectin

[CritterMom]

I have to say that if I had a choice between Revolution and ivermectin it wouldn't even be a choice. Ivermectin is deadly if overdosed and an overdose is a tiny amount. As I said earlier in the thread, revolution is the only one of the spot-ons I am familiar with and it works pretty much like magic. If you can get it from your vet, I urge you to do so.

[UDoWhat]

Chewing lice are different than mange mites. And yes the PetArmour Plus (it has to be the plus) can help in the control of sarcoptic mange. But only sarcoptes not any of the other species of mites. Squirrels can also get notoedric and demodex mites and hence the need for ivermectin or selemectin to kill them.

Probably more information than you wanted to know about mites and lice but I'm a biologist with a background in parisitology. :)

EDIT: Stepnstone you beat me to it!

Ooops , I misquoted my Vet. . What she said is they ( mange mites ,sarcoptic ,that is, and chewing lice) are often hard to tell the difference if not trained to do so, but they could both be treated with the same medication. To tell for sure they would need to be identified under magnification most likely. She felt unless I (we) had a real reason to absolutely know, an identification was not all that necessary, in some cases. They have similar symptoms to the skin causing itching, hair loss, and a drab looking coat or fur, and more, etc. She said she would do testing for me if I felt it necessary or I just wanted to know. She went on... but that is all I needed to correct my error and misquote of her. :sanp3

Thank you, Grinn for the information. I have taken several parisitology classes over the years. I better start paying more attention in those classes .:rotfl :sanp3

Marty

Off again, I will return later G.. I agree with CrirrerMom but if no choice...

[UDoWhat]

Another thought before I go. I see you are in FL. (Lucky you) We have a bizillon members there. Perhaps you could PM one of them for help with this poor little baby. It must feel just terrible with all those creepy crawlies on him, poor baby. Just an idea. :dono :dono

Marty, Really got to go. I am late. BBL

[jo_schmoe]

I could probably get my hands on revolution but I think i'm taking the ivermectin route. I just don't trust these topical medications. I have bad experience with it with my dog and now a squirrel.

I'm going to try and get him the bath and benedryl today along with that scale.

If I can't see a vet could someone give me a link to where I can purchase ivermectin? Is it available online only or can I find it at a pet store? what are the brand names?

I have to say that I have used Revolution on my guys....and...it worked very well. I have also used Ivermectin....and lost that squirrel. ( she was in very bad shape so it may have been coincidental)
My newest guy has the worst case of mange I have ever seen....he's naked. He was given the Revolution and within one day we saw results. He is doing great! The thing I worry about with the ivermectin is that when an animal has mites...their immune system is already suppressed....and ivermectin is hard on their bodies....especially the digestive track. Again...just my opinion...but if I had a case like yours....I would not use Ivermectin.

[The G]

Hello again everyone and thank you all very very much for all the feedback. It's been greatly appreciated.
My little guy visited the vets today and they prescribed me with Ivermectin (they didn't carry Revolution.) They gave me the specific dose and were very cautious with how much to give him. It made me feel a little better about the stuff. He will have the tiniest drop given to him once a week for every four weeks.
Once again thank you all so much for the help.

[grinn75]

:thumbsup Yeah! So glad you got something to help him. Let us know how it goes and if he starts healing up. To help with the scabs and itchy skin I know some people have suggested aloe juice or coconut oil. Both can be rubbed on the fur and skin for soothing and healing. Also they are both edible and have good nutrients for your squirrel so there's no fear if he licks at it.

So does your little guy have a name?:poke

[island rehabber]

thank goodness -- ivermectin really is SO effective for mange, although I personally hate it because it is such an unforgiving drug. (One tiny teeny math error and you've killed the squirrel; bad for folks like me :shakehead.) It does the job though -- and lucky you in Florida, you got a vet's help! :thumbsup

[Pierre]

I've had great luck with ivermectin with my rescue and foster rats [that sometimes came in with lice/mites]. I've never had a problem with overdose and all of them looked better within 5 days [grew hair] and stopped itching quickly.

Ivermectin is an amazing drug with indications for humans [oral] and well as all kinds of livestock, horses, dogs, etc. My dog once found his heartguard ivermectin medicine [chewable] and he ate all six of them at once. I called the company and was told the toxic level was far far far greater [by many times] than the amount he ate.

We need to make sure people dose it correctly but not be afraid of it.

[UDoWhat]

Hi G, I am so glad you were able to get a Vet to see him. Also the Vet was able to give you a good idea if he was strong enough to have the Ivermectin drug. I know how to dose but.... it really isn't always about knowing how much to give in the dose. With Ivermectin the anima'ls overall health needs to be considered due to how powerful this drug can be. It worked for the best this time. :thankyou for the update. Please let us know how he does. :thumbsup

Marty

[UDoWhat]

I've had great luck with ivermectin with my rescue and foster rats [that sometimes came in with lice/mites]. I've never had a problem with overdose and all of them looked better within 5 days [grew hair] and stopped itching quickly.

Ivermectin is an amazing drug with indications for humans [oral] and well as all kinds of livestock, horses, dogs, etc. My dog once found his heartguard ivermectin medicine [chewable] and he ate all six of them at once. I called the company and was told the toxic level was far far far greater [by many times] than the amount he ate.

We need to make sure people dose it correctly but not be afraid of it.

This is great to know. I have used this drug in the past but have really many times been afraid to leave the room after dosing because of the cautions that have been assigned to Ivermectin. Can I relax some now??:rotfl It really does work well.

:thankyou
Marty

[The G]

:thumbsup Yeah! So glad you got something to help him. Let us know how it goes and if he starts healing up. To help with the scabs and itchy skin I know some people have suggested aloe juice or coconut oil. Both can be rubbed on the fur and skin for soothing and healing. Also they are both edible and have good nutrients for your squirrel so there's no fear if he licks at it.

So does your little guy have a name?:poke

My vet suggested to not put anything on him that he could ingest and make him sick. He did recommend to wash him in distilled water. Never heard that before but it's safe, soothes the skin, and doesn't harm the squirrel if swallowed.
I've been avoiding your question about his name. I haven't 100% decided on one yet... But I was thinking about calling him Clu. (big fan of the new TRON)

I was so excited to tell everyone about today that I forget to tell what exactly he had. They did the skin scraping and it turned out to be the Notoedric Mange. So of course the Petarmor plus was going to do nothing for it. They let me see the little monsters under the microscope. Real nasty little things. But the itching seems to be settling down and believe things can only get better from here.

once again...
Thank you all for the support!

[UDoWhat]

My vet suggested to not put anything on him that he could ingest and make him sick. He did recommend to wash him in distilled water. Never heard that before but it's safe, soothes the skin, and doesn't harm the squirrel if swallowed.
I've been avoiding your question about his name. I haven't 100% decided on one yet... But I was thinking about calling him Clu. (big fan of the new TRON)

I was so excited to tell everyone about today that I forget to tell what exactly he had. They did the skin scraping and it turned out to be the Notoedric Mange. So of course the Petarmor plus was going to do nothing for it. They let me see the little monsters under the microscope. Real nasty little things. But the itching seems to be settling down and believe things can only get better from here.

once again...
Thank you all for the support!
G, Thanks for letting us know about Clu (?) Sounds good to me. :rotfl . Most often it is the other mite, sarcoptic. With the info Pierre gave us , I will not be as apprehensive to use Ivermectin. I will always be cautious , but not as apprehensive. Please keep us up dated on your little one. :thankyou :thankyou

Marty

[hlmatrisian]

Hi,

I'm not familiar with mange and am not sure about Ivermectin but if you need some, go to your local feed store (like for horses, cows, chickens, and such) and make sure to dose it WAYYYYY down by weight and amount of Ivermectin (mg).

Good luck,
Heather

[grinn75]

I think Clu would make an excellent name. Very unique. :thumbsup