Urgent answer needed, PLEASE HELP!

[ilovepussyfoot]

Hello. I am SO sorry now that I didn't join this board a year ago when I found my baby squirrels. I did fine on my own with advice and help from a few helpers, but am getting no where with them now. Please know I have read every thread I can find on the condition I am asking about, and am not just posting here for some quick help, I have not found the answers to specific questions I have.
I have a male squirrel, who was fostered and re-released, he comes daily for food, treats & water, and is able to be handled. 3 days ago I noticed him losing his balance and tipping over. I know the possibilities so I grabbed him and penned him up hoping to find a treatable wound. But there is nothing. He is eating and by all other signs appears just fine, no weepy eyes, no apparent pain. So I am suspecting Raccoon Ringworm as there is a known group in my area. Also, I would have thought if he had been poisoned his condition would have gotten worse, but it hasn't. I can get any medicines I don't already have, but I am not 100% sure of what to use that would be best. I need to know how much and of what? BUT, what if he doesn't have the ringworm, could I harm him by giving him the medicine if he doesn't need it? I currently have him in a pen and he is HATING it, as his condition had not changed I was going to release him this afternoon, so he can be happier in freedom. If I treat him, should I let him go straight away or are we looking at time here to wait and see for recovery?? I am assuming his condition will deteriorate in time, I am wondering, how much time might he have? Does anyone have a realistic guess? If it is already in his brain, I know his chances are just awful, what is the cure rate at this point of infection?? PLEASE, anyone, any help? Mostly my questions are about release and survival rate, I guess I have a good idea of what he has : (
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/images/smilies/shakehead.gif

[Tara]

Hi! Rehabbers should be on soon. In the meantime, would you list more detailed symptoms, and diet as well? That should help the rehabbers answer your questions. Hope he gets well soon! :grouphug :grouphug
And :Welcome !

[momma2boo]

Off the top of my head I am thinking either MBD (metabolic bone disease) or God forbid, poisoning.

I am certain a rehabber with answers will be on soon.

The MBD I can direct you to the protocol for but the poisoning I just don't know.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28006

Emergency Treatment for MBD
Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW.
Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:
-Tums, rolaids, or calcium supplement (any kind)
-a syringe or spoon
Crush one pill and add a little water or fruit juice to make a paste. Use the syringe or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. The first day, give a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, spread throughout the day/night to maintain blood calcium levels.

Important!

1. Any kind of calcium pill is okay for the initial dose. But you must use PLAIN calcium pills (without Vit D) from then on.
2. Try to give many small doses of calcium throughout the day/night to keep blood calcium levels as steady as possible.
3. If seizures or paralysis worsen or return, give another emergency dose, and make sure you check back in to TSB for help as relapses can be very serious.

The acute symptoms (weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis) will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones. (See the "Long-Term Treatment for MBD" http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=28007)

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel confined to a small cage and away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

Be sure to check in with TSB on a regular basis; this is key to avoid relapses.

[ilovepussyfoot]

Thank you Tara, of course, stupid of me not to give more info.....
he fends for himself on what ever he likes mostly, he comes to us for fresh water and mixed nuts (as many as he asks for). He does not appear to like fresh fruits & vegetables even though they are offered to him, berries, apples, cucumbers, sunflower seeds etc. Other squirrels take them, but not him, he seems to be solely a nut lover, from us anyway. I buy the mixed bags of nuts and he mostly takes Brazil nuts & Pecans, although he does love almonds, maccadamias, walnuts and of course peanuts.
He was running over to me for a nut, grabbed it, and then seemed to melt over to one side, falling about half way, then steadying himself. He does not appear to fall fully over, so he seems to know it's happening. Now in his pen, he'll be standing up for a tummy scratch, lift his arm so I can get to the sweet spot and again, he starts to slide. If he gets spooked and runs, he appears to go off course and even falls over the side of the sticks or floor boards. He does manage to keep his grip though and has yet to fall fully over on his side.
When I grabbed him it was only because I wanted to treat any wounds I might find and because I was worried he would be caught by a predator while like this. I don't intend to keep him penned up if at all possible, he is just miserable back in there because now he is on his own, when before he had his sister.
He is very sweet and I am sure I can give him any meds he will need.....but if they are in his brain, what's the point, it can't possibly help now can it???
Please note the rehabber in my area is NOT an option. She is currently full up and is unable to take on any new animals.
I hope I covered everything. I can shoot a quick video if that would help????
Thanks for your kind words Tara and for taking the time to try to ease my mind.
Pussyfoot.

[momma2boo]

BTW: I've Private Messaged a couple rehabbers. Hoping they will along real soon. Hang tight. Meanwhile keep him quiet in a dimly lit room (it will help him deal with any stress he may be feeling) with a heating pad on low under part of his pen. Be sure to provide him with water.

Someone will be by to help.

With a diet so heavily ladened with nuts I am beginning to think he may be suffering from MBD

[pappy1264]

I am wondering if this could be a head injury (perhaps a fall, or even clipped by a vehicle). If there is swelling in the brain, you can see this kind of thing. Although I am in MA, I don't have a ton of experience with injuries, but I am sure others will be in soon. Do you have a vet you could use to check him out if need be?

I just saw you new post about the amount of nuts, and am wondering too about MBD as well.

[ilovepussyfoot]

Thank you, but mostly he seems warm! When he is not eating, sleeping or searching for a way out, he is laying flat out on his tummy with his paws hanging over like does up the trees on hot days, I feel like if I gave him a heat pad he'd melt.....
Also, I am worried if I try to stuff too much stuff into him to treat too many things at once I will just make it worse!
Thanks for the support, so much, I can't lose Charlie. His sister ran off long ago and he is all I have left.
Pussyfoot.

[momma2boo]

That is why I said to put it under only part of the pen/cage. If it is MBD warmth helps soothe the aches they have in their bones. If he is not in the AC then I suppose with it being so hot out that the heating pad would not be necessary.

I would start the MBD treatment. If he appears to be getting better then you'll know that is what it was.

[ilovepussyfoot]

I have felt him over from toe to nose, there is not a bump or even hair out of place. There are no vets that will see him within 2 hours of me. Although I have one who will provide me with medications, they can not physically treat him : (

[ilovepussyfoot]

I will go now and get the things suggested, so I will be offline for a little while. I'll be sure to be back on around 3.30pm to check for any updates or info.
THANK YOU AGAIN EVERYONE!!!

[ilovepussyfoot]

How fatal is MBD given the stage that I am describing? Have I spoiled my boy to death???

[momma2boo]

How fatal is MBD given the stage that I am describing? Have I spoiled my boy to death???

I don't know how bad he is but I know from everything I've learned here that it is deadly. Get him started on the MBD treatment and let's see how he does. We can re-evaluate after this is started. Meanwhile, keep all nuts away from him.

TSB is wonderful and will walk you through this.

Where abouts are you? We might be able to get you even more help if a rehabber is close by.

[Tara]

I'm by no means a professional rehabber, as I've only raised two sets of squirrels, and if it weren't for TSB...they would have never made it.
I'm going to chime in anyway though with my thoughts, and someone correct me if necessary.
When first reading your post, I thought MBD as well. I would go ahead with calcium for this particular issue. *For future reference only, you should read up a bit on the threads here, as there is some discussion about giving too much calcium as well.
I'm not familiar with racoon ringworm...but did read up a bit on it and the symptoms with the tilting and leaning do sound alarming to me. Someone will surely give their thoughts on this. I'm not sure what other issues could show the same symptoms as this, but there are probably several, so don't panic.
I read that someone said it could be a head injury. That sounds possible too.
The pen that he's in, is it low so that he can't fall and hurt himself-since he's off balance and all?
When you get back in, there should be lots more info from great TSB members to help you figure this out for your Charlie. In the meantime, I'm sending well wishes! :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Anne]

I would start the MBD treatment immediately. NO MORE NUTS, for now. Get his diet turned around and later you can reintroduce nuts-but as treats only! MBD makes for brittle bones and stiff achy muscles. The non-shut-off heating pad will comfort all those pains, place it in such a way that he can move away from the pad if he gets to hot. make sure that he has cool fresh water at all times.
Others on here have given you all the treads you need to read over, MBD treatment and diet information. You will have to use tough love to get the veggies into him, but it needs to be done to get him healthy again.
He could get the raccoon ringworm from drinking out of infested water puddles. Less likely if water comes from a swimming pool or pond.
It could be a head injury from falling, the heating pad will help there too. If head trauma-time will tell but the calcium and diet change will help there also.
We are here to help 24/7. Someone will always be available to answer any questions. :grouphug

[Skul]

Has anyone considered heat related problems?
If he is showing improvement the last couple days, I would suspect that.

If the little one is still showing symptoms, then MBD may be the cause.

[momma2boo]

Has anyone considered heat related problems?
If he is showing improvement the last couple days, I would suspect that.

If the little one is still showing symptoms, then MBD may be the cause.

Anything is possible ... it really is a process of elimination.

[Jackie in Tampa]

to me it sounds like head trauma or roundworm...
NOT classic MBD from what you describe...:shakehead
I have no experience with roundworm...but will do some quick research....
hoping someone comes on that does have experience and can add or redirect a diagnosis...
Head trauma is a strong possibility IMO from the tilting to the falling over...
brb...going to my books...
have you seen any urine or poops?? normal??

[CritterMom]

If this is an outdoor living squirrel the chance of MBD goes down, but giving the additional calcium is not going to hurt him even if this is not MBD, so do that.

However it is also very likely that he may have fallen and struck his head. This happens all the time - I have several neuro squirrels that live on and around my property and the symptoms are similar, try to sit up and tilt and fall over. Is his head held oddly, like it is tilted?

Please do keep him in for now so he can be evaluated. He needs good, nutritious food, clean water and protection from predators right now.

Where in Mass are you?

If this is racoon roundworm, I believe that once they are symptomatic there is nothing that can be done - I am sorry. Let's hope this is something else.

[Jackie in Tampa]

not sounding so much like roundworm so far...
maybe west nile, ear mite, head trauma, heat stroke, specific poisonings,
lyme
will need more details...
eyes, any discharge?
is he clean? does he smell?
ck his teeth if possible, gum color...
start hydration immediately no matter what it is...

poops and pees ...normal?
appetite?

I seriously doubt this is MBD....:shakehead

[grinn75]

I'm with CritterMom and Jackie. Not likely to be MBD with a released squirrel. Even if he gets lots of food from you he is still probably eating wild foods and getting what his body needs. I would lean more towards head trauma or some other neurological disease.

[grinn75]

not sounding so much like roundworm so far...
maybe west nile, ear mite, head trauma, heat stroke, specific poisonings,
lyme
will need more details...
eyes, any discharge?
is he clean? does he smell?
ck his teeth if possible, gum color...
start hydration immediately no matter what it is...

poops and pees ...normal?
appetite?

I seriously doubt this is MBD....:shakehead

:goodpost

[Jackie in Tampa]

just saw this...ring worm and raccoon round worm are extremely different..
Not ringworm for sure...that affects the skin, bacterial
head trauma doesn't fit the criteria for roundworm....

[ilovepussyfoot]

So, I did answer most of the questions, but my answers may have been missed. He is an outdoor living squirrel. Eyes are clear. Pee & Poop can't be seen due to the natural earth/leaves of the pen. I am going to set something up inside for him today. He does not have a head tilt all the time, it only seems to happen as he is going down. He is not overheated where he is and even has available to him or a warm hammock. So temperature control is his choice right now. His gums and teeth look just fine. No blood in saliva. I thought if he'd been poisoned he'd have either passed away or gotten a little better these last few days, but nothing. It does not look physical to me, it looks neurological. I had a dog once who had seizures and it looks a little like that. But the temperature and he is definitely not hot enough for it to be heat stroke (he feels nice : ) Plus can do it day or night when it's warm or cool. Anything else I can answer with?
I got the tums. I got the 750 and regular strength. You mention how much calcium to give him, but as each of the 750 tabs only contains 300mg of calcium, do I try to get 2 into him at once, or ease it in as you suggested????
Thanks guys!!!!

[ilovepussyfoot]

Sorry missed that his appetite is normal. His tail fur looks a little thinner than it did, but that could be shedding from the head a little right?

[ilovepussyfoot]

Gosh darn it, I obviously tried to rush my post and I don't know how to edit my posts yet, so sorry for all the extra messages. I meant to say in there that he has a fan on him, that he can easily move away from (don't worry he can't reach any cords).
Again, greatly appreciate the help guys!
I have access to a Petsmart, Petco and the normal stores I guess. What should I move his appetite to until this sorts out. I will order stuff on line if I need to, but what can I buy RIGHT NOW, that I can tempt him with. If he is going through something the last thing I want to do right now is stress him out more by taking away the only food he loves with something he won't touch. Something I can get close by PLEASE!!!
Thank you!!!!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

do some quick research on the possibilities listed below until the rehabbers come on with other ideas...
if any of these rings any bells, I can give you the treatment protocols from my books....
I would def figure a way to monitor his poops and urine...sometimes they are the quincher to a diagnosis.

here is the link to the emergency MBD treatment
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17677
goal is to slowly get 500mgs of calcium into sq in a 24 hour period {Basically}


edit: ringworm a skin bacterial/fungal...
:peace too many things going on here and I lost a bag of fabric...oye...
edit...my sqs love avacodo..

[CritterMom]

I don't really think this is MBD but if it is, he calcium is already being given, so that is good. I would not overly stress him by changing everything now. Give him the stuff you normally put out for him, some fresh veggies, like Jackie said, they love avocado (meat only, no skin, no pits). Petco and the like sell Kaytee Forti-diet for rats which is a good interim food that can be obtained locally. Sunsweet makes one called Critter Cubes, too - many chains carry that as well.

If he refuses to touch them make sure he has his other food to eat and post and let us know - I can give you some tips to "dress them up" a little that he might like.

[island rehabber]

I responded here an hour ago and my post is gone! :dono:shakehead
I don't think this is MBD. I'm thinking parasite -- hopefully NOT raccoon roundworm (baylisascariasis) but possibly that, even. Is there any way you can get some good rodent antibiotics? SMZ-TMP, Baytril, 'chloro' or 'metro'?

[ilovepussyfoot]

Thanks guys, yes he does enjoy Avacado, but must be spoilt because he gets bored with it after a couple of days. Broccoli did well for a bit too, the tops of celery. But no luck now. He is now inside the house now, in a cage, he is actually not mad at all, I expected him to start thrashing. But he is must be enjoying the air conditioning and familiar environment I think. It's the same room I kept him as an infant. I have put a white towel in the bottom of the cage so I can check for any um, developments : )
I will hit the pet stores tomorrow. I do have a mouse mixture that I put in his cage with some watermelon and just a few of his regular nuts. And water of course. He hasn't done anything except hide 2 of the nuts for later. I haven't started the calcium yet, I was waiting for the exact measurements, but will definitely be starting it tonight. I do thank everyone for their help. I checked his ears for mites as well, nice and clear. Everything keeps pointing to the raccoon ringworm or Baylisascaris Infection to me, but this was my first set of squirrels so I just don't know!!! I will update on anything I see and check in often tonight for new advice. I can't say how thankful I am, I appreciate EVERY opinion! From newbies like myself to the experts. I love knowing if we are thinking the same things or going in different directions. I am all for giving an open mind and trying anything to save my boy!
Thanks SO much!
Pussyfoot & Charlie

I'm going to try to put a picture up of him, sorry if it doesn't work. I'm still working it all out.

http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/fe/l=en_US/p/dasta/Main/s_c=0/s_se=FDR/s_pt=GFT,POS,REP,PMB,GEN,GF2,PC5,HMB,CAL,IPD,CBG,P C4/s_cmpg=hp_us_30free_netbooks_mini#ss={%22uc%22%3A2 %2C%22aid%22%3A256750180%2C%22pid%22%3A14077164402 2%2C%22vp%22%3A%22s%22%2C%22sb%22%3A5}

[ilovepussyfoot]

Thanks guys, yes he does enjoy Avacado, but must be spoilt because he gets bored with it after a couple of days. Broccoli did well for a bit too, the tops of celery. But no luck now. He is now inside the house now, in a cage, he is actually not mad at all, I expected him to start thrashing. But he is must be enjoying the air conditioning and familiar environment I think. It's the same room I kept him as an infant. I have put a white towel in the bottom of the cage so I can check for any um, developments : )
I will hit the pet stores tomorrow. I do have a mouse mixture that I put in his cage with some watermelon and just a few of his regular nuts. And water of course. He hasn't done anything except hide 2 of the nuts for later. I haven't started the calcium yet, I was waiting for the exact measurements, but will definitely be starting it tonight. I do thank everyone for their help. I checked his ears for mites as well, nice and clear. Everything keeps pointing to the raccoon ringworm or Baylisascaris Infection to me, but this was my first set of squirrels so I just don't know!!! I will update on anything I see and check in often tonight for new advice. I can't say how thankful I am, I appreciate EVERY opinion! From newbies like myself to the experts. I love knowing if we are thinking the same things or going in different directions. I am all for giving an open mind and trying anything to save my boy!
Thanks SO much!
Pussyfoot & Charlie

[ilovepussyfoot]

Oooh, so I'm not crazy, I just saw that I can't edit my posts or put up attachments, and I just thought it was because I was too stupid. I'll stop trying to do those things now I guess then.

[ilovepussyfoot]

Okay, so he is eating some of the watermelon, and has not had any nuts yet. Pooping a good amount, it's firm, small. Nothing moving, normal color etc. His pee seems good too. Smells like it usually does. Seems clear, not too yellow, should it be yellow? They have always used a box before they were released and I only got peed on once, and I was wearing black at the time, so not real sure what I am looking for. But the white towel doesn't have yellow stains on it. I hope that's a good sign!
Much thanks again!

[CritterMom]

That's just fine - fully hydrated is clear pee. And the poops sound just fine. Now to see if there are any changes after a good night's sleep...

[ilovepussyfoot]

Hi guys, he is about the same, very relaxed though, which was surprising to me. Eating more watermelon and not touching any of the seeds. I added some cucumber to his food, but he hasn't touched it yet, everything else is the same. No word from any rehabbers, would love to know if they think this is the raccoon ringworm I fear it may be?
Anyone with definite experience in raccoon ringworm possibly available for some advice just in case please?
Should I release him or continue to monitor? How long? I'd rather he was free if that's what he wants, I'll give him the choice, as soon as I'm sure I've done everything I can to give him the best chance.
Thanks again to everyone!
Pussyfoot & Charlie

[grinn75]

How is little Charlie? Has he improved at all?

[ilovepussyfoot]

Thank you for asking. He is doing better. As we did not get much in the way of advice we had to make a judgement call. We spent his last night in the cage inside cuddling and kissing, then the next morning we re-released him to let nature take it's course. I know some people will disagree with our decision, but we did what we felt was right for Charlie. He was SO happy to be out, he ran in circles around a tree and jumped back and forth to me, until he took a nut and ran/staggered off. So we thought that would be our last sighting of him, a happy but sick squirrel. We didn't see him for 48hrs, and when we did he was walking very slow and disorientated, so we gave a kiss and a nut and said our goodbye's, just in case. We kept in mind if the next time we saw him and he was worse, would take him in again if we could. But then 48hours and nothing again. Then SHAZAM he shows up and looks a little better, seems to be learning to deal with the balance issue by sitting down and was now faster on his feet. Seemed to either stay on course or adjust as he needed. He took more melon and nuts for hours with us and then went off to nest for the night. We did not want to get too hopeful but continued to call him everyday. Again he skipped a day and then showed up again today looking even better! He is still not fully himself but I have not seen him fall once in his visits since leaving. We are extremely hopeful that he will fully recover. We are pretty convinced it was poisoning and the time he had to stay calm, keep cool, and get a healthy diet helped him get a jump on his recovery and nature fixed the rest. We did find an ant repellent that a squirrel had taken, and we wondered if that could be it. But I did research on what it was and checked the boards and am not sure that particular one would have been the culprit, but you never know. Or he had a fall and had a bruised brain and that maybe the swelling is going down. But I guess time will tell for sure. I was SO thankful to everyone who wrote. Although I did not get many answers to my questions or much advice from an actual rehabber, it did my heart good to know I was not alone in my worry and that there were actually other people who cared and wanted to help him. And I am eternally grateful for that, so thank you again to everyone, but especially you for checking back in : )
Most of my posts were and still are, done through sheets of tears. Thanks for not thinking I'm crazy!
Pussyfoot & Charlie

[Twi_prime]

Hi ILPf. Glad to hear he's looking so good. I think timing was against you in getting timely advice this last week or two, since there was so much technical difficulty on the board. People here are pretty vigilant and conscientious when it comes to helping critters. If you see he needs more help (and, to me, it sounds like you'll want to watch him very closely and err on the side of being *too* careful if you start to wonder), I think you'll have a much easier time getting responses when you post again. Good luck to you and Charlie. :)

[Skul]

Very happy to see the improvement.:thumbsup

[grinn75]

Charlie is so cute! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon
Glad to hear he is improving. Not out of the woods yet but it sounds like positive signs. I think you did the right thing letting him go. If it is baylis ascaris (round worm) or I was even thinking West Nile I've heard there's not much you can do other than supportive care. I don't have any experience with either but good food and plenty of it certainly can't hurt. Also, with a squirrel that has been released they might stress being back in captivity and that's the last thing you want. Keep a close eye on him and keep us updated.

Good luck Charlie! I'm sending lots of love and good mojo your way. Hoping for a full recovery. :grouphug