URGENT HELP NEEDED! LETHARGIC 7 mth old!!!

[Tara]

First: need dosage for tramadol. I have 1/2 a pill and need to administer to 1.28 lb squirrel. thanks!


Background: Raised 3 siblings from 2 weeks old. Now a little over 7 mths. Little Girl has been lethargic at least 4 different times over the past month or two. We give her smz, push fluids, homemade pedialyte, and tums and rub sugar on gums...she's fine in a day or so. Most of the time we conclude that it must have been something she ate.

BTW-the other two siblings are free in the trees. Little Girl is most days. Every few nights or so, she chooses to come back in with us. Seems like she catches up on eating and rest, and goes back out for a couple of days. She comes in around 5 or 6 and wakes us up around 7 to let her out. :) She's built 4 nests that we know of. Others keep taking them from her. She's happy, but comes to us daily for her romaine lettuce and pecans. Over the past week, she has gnawed on a monkey biscuit occasionally. Other than that...she won't eat any veggies or fruits. I've been assuming that she's getting what she needs in the wild.


Current Symptoms:
severely lethargic...hasn't gotten up all day.
sleeping curled up
pooped on herself through the night. I stimulated her today and she pooped a whole lot. Her urine looks okay. Her poop is black (normally is) and has small somethings in it...not sure what it is.
noise in nose-thinking sign of pain
just started with white fluid in her eye

Difference from other times and this time: white fluid in eye, noise in nose, poop having something in it...and a couple of days ago I noticed that she had two lumps under her skin at her lowest nipples. Today, I don't feel them. I thought she may be pregnant? If they're there...it's not prominant like it was.

Treatments so far:
homemade pedialyte by syringe
tums by syringe
rubbed syrup on gums
she did eat some romaine lettuce while being held and a couple of bites of a grape

Have on hand: 1/2 tramadol (need dosage info -she weights 1.28 lbs) and metro pills. Also have amoxicillin.

Possibility of teeth being too long or diabetes??? NOT SURE>>>>just thinking.... and she LOVES licking salt/sweat off of hat

Please help us!

[lilidukes]

Tara this is the best thread I could find on diabetes. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10812 Just something to think about because of her massive urine output. Please describe the poop or try to get a pic. Do you have raccoons around your house?

[Tara]

Tara this is the best thread I could find on diabetes. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10812 Just something to think about because of her massive urine output. Please describe the poop or try to get a pic. Do you have raccoons around your house?

Thanks. I'll check it out. Urine output is sometimes a good bit, but normally when she wants to pee on us. One day out in the woods she urinated on me 4 times within 30 mins. Not just sprinkles either. Hard to tell about her output now that she's outside free most of the time. Today she's only urinated twice.

Yes, we have raccoons here. They even used to come up on the deck after the cat food when we had cats. They would look into the glass door.

There are different sized small white/tan things in her poop. Some the size of a grain of salt -maybe smaller, and some thin -maybe 2-3mm long pieces like string, but not sticky.

[lilidukes]

check the inside of her mouth again

[lilidukes]

TSB I'm on massive pain meds and very fuzzy and scared to make any calls for Tara. Please give her your thoughts and ideas. I have most any med she could need if necessary but am a 5-6 hour round trip for Tara.

Tara and LG I'm here if I can help:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Tara]

check the inside of her mouth again

teeth? She smacked a little this morning...not sure if she was just thirsty or what.

[lilidukes]

teeth? She smacked a little this morning...not sure if she was just thirsty or what.

can u repost those pic

[Tara]

TSB I'm on massive pain meds and very fuzzy and scared to make any calls for Tara. Please give her your thoughts and ideas. I have most any med she could need if necessary but am a 5-6 hour round trip for Tara.

Tara and LG I'm here if I can help:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

Thanks lilidukes! :) I'm in panic mode! My baby is so sick! I'm sorry that I had to bother you this morning! It seems she's taking a turn for the worse rather than better. I hope you get to feeling better!
I sent JIT a msg and left msg on her phone earlier too. I know she's wide open today. Said she had another leak!!! I'm sure she's working on that.

TSB-someone please help!!!!!!

[Tara]

can u repost those pic

had to resize...

[island rehabber]

tara I'm thinking some type of worms are affecting her and I'm looking it up right now.....hang on...

[lilidukes]

tramadol crush 1/2 pill up with 5 cc's water dose .18-.2 should be safe

[lilidukes]

tara I'm thinking some type of worms are affecting her and I'm looking it up right now.....hang on...

IR she has metro if that helps

[island rehabber]

ok tara from what I can find it appears that TAPEWORMS most closely match your description of rice-like segments in her poop. Tapeworms cause abdominal discomfort and a host of other symptoms, and should be treated with fenbendazole (Panacur) or Drontal. In the meantime you are wise to keep her well hydrated and make sure you remove any fleas from her, as fleas are how they get tapeworms in the first place.

[lilidukes]

do you have a pets smart with a vet there close they may help you?

[Tara]

tramadol crush 1/2 pill up with 5 cc's water dose .18-.2 should be safe

okay...mixed and gave it to her. How often? thanks lilidukes!!!

[lilidukes]

okay...mixed and gave it to her. How often? thanks lilidukes!!!
2-3 times a day

we need to find you some of what ir suggested, they are prescription meds

[Tara]

ok tara from what I can find it appears that TAPEWORMS most closely match your description of rice-like segments in her poop. Tapeworms cause abdominal discomfort and a host of other symptoms, and should be treated with fenbendazole (Panacur) or Drontal. In the meantime you are wise to keep her well hydrated and make sure you remove any fleas from her, as fleas are how they get tapeworms in the first place.

OH DEAR! That may be why she eats lettuce until there is NO MORE? She does have/has had a flea here and there.
Where do I get those meds? Are they by prescription only?

[Tara]

do you have a pets smart with a vet there close they may help you?

there's a petsmart about an hour away in pineville, nc.

[Tara]

2-3 times a day

we need to find you some of what ir suggested, they are prescription meds

I'm gonna start cursing!!!!!!!!!!!!! What KIND OF IDIOT VETS won't see or at least help wildlife???? ESP when all you need is the meds....or a simple test....I would like to be able to get a fecal done too....

Where in the world am I gonna find that????? Oh DEAR! MY POOR BABY!

[island rehabber]

tara, PM me with your actual location....

[lilidukes]

I'm gonna start cursing!!!!!!!!!!!!! What KIND OF IDIOT VETS won't see or at least help wildlife???? ESP when all you need is the meds....or a simple test....I would like to be able to get a fecal done too....

Where in the world am I gonna find that????? Oh DEAR! MY POOR BABY!

wondering if ivermectin could be used?? Tara I'm sorry i'm not myself at the moment. This we could get at tractor supply. i have some of that silicon earth stuff dia ??? stuff if nothing else it keeps my dogs worm free

[I Love Lucy]

Panacur can be ordered online at many pet med websites. You do not need a Rx.

[lilidukes]

Panacur can be ordered online at many pet med websites. You do not need a Rx.
not sure we have time to order:osnap

[lilidukes]

would they do a fecal for a pet rat?

[Tara]

This is Little Girl now...

[Tara]

would they do a fecal for a pet rat?

nope...tried that the last time. they don't see rats. and they won't accept a sample to be tested

[SammysMom]

Someone once suggested that if i needed a fecal done for a squirrel I could ask a vet if they would do a fecal on my "pet rat". Maybe bringing a specimen in and asking for a check on a rat suspected of having tapeworms?

[SammysMom]

Oops...typing at same time

[Tara]

not sure we have time to order:osnap


:*(

[Tara]

I have hartz rid worm paste for cats and kittens-removes roundworms-active ingredient piperazine. I have hartz ultragurd plus ridworm for large dogs-treats large roundworms and hookworms- active ingredient-pyrantel pamoate

any thoughts? and a tractor supply nearby -

[I Love Lucy]

You can buy Panacur and other fenbendazole wormers at a horse feed store. If you can get one of them it will have to be diluted correctly. Let me know if you need help with dilution.

[SammysMom]

I am sorry if this sounds stupid, but I have to ask anyway. Did you give her molasses again this time just in case it is low blood sugar related? Is she good and hydrated? I just know that sometimes I miss the obvious when I get upset about one of my babies. She just looks so limp and hydration might be a side effect of so many other things. Healing thoughts and prayers to that little sweetie!:grouphug

[island rehabber]

:goodpost SammysMom.....yes, treat the most obvious possibilities first.....this is not that show "House" :). Pyrantel Pamoate is one of the ingredients in Drontal, recommended for tapeworm, so it "might" help. be VERY careful with the dosage though.

[lilidukes]

http://www.tractorsupply.com/equine/horse-health/horse-wormers/intervet-panacur-paste-25-g-5122970

Tara is headed to tractor supply to get this. Can anyone dose it???

We have been fighting LG lethargy for a couple of weeks now.

[lilidukes]

I am sorry if this sounds stupid, but I have to ask anyway. Did you give her molasses again this time just in case it is low blood sugar related? Is she good and hydrated? I just know that sometimes I miss the obvious when I get upset about one of my babies. She just looks so limp and hydration might be a side effect of so many other things. Healing thoughts and prayers to that little sweetie!:grouphug

Tara has been hydrating her, always her first step.

[Tara]

before I leave i want to make sure I can dose this down small enough for LG. This tube is enough to treat a 1250 lb horse!!!!

I'm afraid she won't make it if we don't do something....

they close at 6 today. they have it in stock.

[lilidukes]

before I leave i want to make sure I can dose this down small enough for LG. This tube is enough to treat a 1250 lb horse!!!!

I'm afraid she won't make it if we don't do something....

they close at 6 today. they have it in stock.

go call me with any questions i will relay info

[I Love Lucy]

I will PM you the dilution and my cell number. Please let me know if you get the info.

[Jackie in Tampa]

capstar...safe cheap abd everywhere

[Jackie in Tampa]

tara said earlier,,,white flecks , not rice...
black poop , not tarry...

[CritterMom]

You can buy Panocur at places like Petco. Call the ones in your area. It is a very common, safe wormer and you don't need a script.

I would continue rehydration and I would also continue the calcium.

[Jackie in Tampa]

1/4 tablet today..crush with .5cc water, oral syringe...again tomorrow same dose...cannot overdose...
do not freak about white in eye...do not treat...it's stress, will go away on its own.

[equine623]

I don't mean to butt in, but if this is an ongoing lethargy - I suspect there has to be something more than tapeworms. Tapes are one of the least harmful parasites. Unless squirrels are especially sensitive to them :dono Are there any "rice grain" looking segments on the fur near her rear end, or do the white flecks in her poop look like dried rice? They would need to be at least half the size of long grain white rice to be tapeworm segments. Sorry to be graphic, just trying to help with diagnosis.

If she seems to have recovered the other times from the fluids, tums and sugar route, is there any chance she is not, in fact, getting what she needs diet wise on her own? If her consistent diet is the lettuce and pecans, what are the chances you are looking at an MBD case? I know she SHOULD be eating a wild diet, but is there any chance she isn't?

:grouphug Hang in there


Jill, CVT

[Tara]

I don't mean to butt in, but if this is an ongoing lethargy - I suspect there has to be something more than tapeworms. Tapes are one of the least harmful parasites. Unless squirrels are especially sensitive to them :dono Are there any "rice grain" looking segments on the fur near her rear end, or do the white flecks in her poop look like dried rice? They would need to be at least half the size of long grain white rice to be tapeworm segments. Sorry to be graphic, just trying to help with diagnosis.

If she seems to have recovered the other times from the fluids, tums and sugar route, is there any chance she is not, in fact, getting what she needs diet wise on her own? If her consistent diet is the lettuce and pecans, what are the chances you are looking at an MBD case? I know she SHOULD be eating a wild diet, but is there any chance she isn't?

:grouphug Hang in there


Jill, CVT

Hi. There have been several incidents with the lethargy. Normally, she goes out for a day or few...comes back in acting fine, and then the next morning she's lethargic. We keep her in the entire day and that night, and in the past hydrate, push tums, put sugar on gums, give smz and she's fine the next morning. We continue the smz the entire time-except last time because I'm out, so she only had it for four days.
The pieces in her stools are not as long as a half of a grain of rice. There are some that appear thread like (but short)...and others appear to be just small pieces here and there.
As far as her diet...I guess it's possible. We've seen her cracking hickory nuts and digging (and rolling all around) into old rotten logs. There are plenty of partially eaten mushrooms around her area...but there are also other squirrels that could be eating them.
My fiance told me a few mins ago that he noticed her dragging her bottom a bit last night. I thought she always did that..but he disagrees???
So, am I understanding that I may have a released squirrel that loves to be free in the trees...but isn't eating enough of the wild foods? GREAT.....
It almost makes sense....doesn't it?

We're treating her for internal parasites now. I gave her capstar and started her on metro. Hoping she gets better. I have offered her grape tomatoes, zucchini, carrots, romaine, and cucumber. She will only eat the romaine. I did get her to eat a few almond slivers...and I syringe fed her some organic babyfood-apples and blueberries. Still pushing fluids and have another syringe of tums to get into her.

She is still very lethargic and not doing well at all. Oh...she did drink a bit of tea though! Not the best in the world for her...but it's something.

Any thoughts?

Also, to everyone I haven't gotten back to...I'm so sorry. I had to run to town for the capstar...and cook for our 4th cookout. I didn't even make the dessert because I've been so frantic over my sweetie. :( I really appreciate everyone's help and ideas. :thankyou :thankyou :thankyou

[UDoWhat]

As I look at this post , I am concerned with the length of her bottom teeth, in particular. In the photos, I believe, her teeth are going up in the roof of her mouth. She may not be able to eat at all without extreme pain due to her teeth hitting the roof of her mouth. Like sharp little needles hitting the roof of her mouth each time she tries to chew. I would ask that you PM our member Jackie in Tampa, to look at the photos, with an emphasis on the bottom teeth and the length of them. Jackie has specific experience and expertise in squirrel teeth, length and the need for clipping. I really believe her teeth are a problem. Can you see in the roof of her mouth? Do you see any ulcers, sores or red spots. Look just behind her top teeth. You may want to try to syringe feed her baby foods so she does not have to chew. Be very careful, however, to go drop by drop of baby food so she does not aspirate. If JIT is not available I believe there are other members who deal routinely with teeth issues. I will see if I can locate the names of those members too.
What do others think of the tooth length??

[island rehabber]

I will defer to Jackie because of her extensive experience clipping & monitoring squirrel teeth -- but here is a photo of a squirrel skull if it helps at all....

[Tara]

As I look at this post , I am concerned with the length of her bottom teeth, in particular. In the photos, I believe, her teeth are going up in the roof of her mouth. She may not be able to eat at all without extreme pain due to her teeth hitting the roof of her mouth. Like sharp little needles hitting the roof of her mouth each time she tries to chew. I would ask that you PM our member Jackie in Tampa, to look at the photos, with an emphasis on the bottom teeth and the length of them. Jackie has specific experience and expertise in squirrel teeth, length and the need for clipping. I really believe her teeth are a problem. Can you see in the roof of her mouth? Do you see any ulcers, sores or red spots. Look just behind her top teeth. You may want to try to syringe feed her baby foods so she does not have to chew. Be very careful, however, to go drop by drop of baby food so she does not aspirate. If JIT is not available I believe there are other members who deal routinely with teeth issues. I will see if I can locate the names of those members too.
What do others think of the tooth length??

Hi! We went through all of that a week or two ago. JIT and Lilidukes think that the bottom teeth are a bit long, but I was hesitant about clipping them and haven't yet. I'm afraid that I'll split her teeth and turn her into a NR!!!! I've looked into her mouth and there's no signs of any sores, ulcers, or red spots. Everything looks fine. Also, she cracked 3 pecans yesterday. When she's just sitting there, her top and bottom teeth meet. Sometimes she clicks them together. Other times, they appear long to me too...
I decided that since she comes to me at least every other day or so, I'll keep checking them and see how she does. I would like to know what everyone else thinks though. JIT-it's a long trip to Tampa for me! I"M AFRAID to do it myself!!!!

[Tara]

I will defer to Jackie because of her extensive experience clipping & monitoring squirrel teeth -- but here is a photo of a squirrel skull if it helps at all....

her teeth are WAY longer than those! I emailed JIT and Lilidukes the pics already. :( I so do not want to clip her teeth! KIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[island rehabber]

her teeth are WAY longer than those! I emailed JIT and Lilidukes the pics already. :( I so do not want to clip her teeth! KIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tara, talk to stosh. He let some smart TSB'ers (like Jackie) walk him through teeth clipping 101 and he did it perfectly the first time. You can do this! :) :thumbsup

[Tara]

So, there are lots of pics of teeth that need to be trimmed on here. I've searched and searched. Does anyone know where I can find one of what their teeth should look like when trimmed? A live squirrel? ;) That may be helpful. :sanp3 :shakehead :dono :thinking

[Tara]

Tara, talk to stosh. He let some smart TSB'ers (like Jackie) walk him through teeth clipping 101 and he did it perfectly the first time. You can do this! :) :thumbsup

The thought makes me cringe!!! I'm afraid. I'm very afraid!!!! A few weeks ago I was ready to sew up a dog that had been hit by a car...but trimming teeth!?!?!?!? AHHHH!!!! Okay, let's take a poll...who thinks her teeth are too long? say no. say no.... say no.....

Well, I guess that won't really help if they're too long and compromising my Little Girl's eating habits, huh? *sigh* Okay...I'll sleep on it....and nightmare!

I guess I'll do whatever I have to do to help her. She's my sweetheart.

[UDoWhat]

By comparision with the skull representation, her teeth don't look too terribly long. The photos, I'm just not sure about. Tara, I would not consider her a releasable just yet. IMO, I would hold her back/inside for just a while. I have had squirrels come in that needed only 1 tooth clipping. I kept them a while longer(Usually at least 6 extra weeks. By then if they have a tooth/teeth problem they would have needed their teeth clipped twice in that time. Over growth would normally occur in 3 weeks time.) She seems to need some extra time. I don't think I would chance her getting into trouble. This is not to say she is not ever to be released, just a little more time. :tilt

Marty

[SammysMom]

I'm no expert but they do look like others that have been deemed too long. I know how you must feel, but I also know that Stosh felt the same way and he did great. It's one of those "you do what you gotta do" moments. :grouphug

[lilidukes]

You know you can drop in for a trim anytime:tilt

If you don't think you and E can do it let's see if we can get her over this stress then come on and we will walk you through it. The first time is the worse. I will check Brighteyes she might be ready for a trim too and you can watch us do her first. But right now we have to get her more stable before she should travel. I can give you a smaller cage you can keep in the house if needed. so you can leave her unattended daytime.

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[UDoWhat]

I didn't think the teeth looked terrible but I do think they need to be clipped. Sorry Tara, I hate teeth clipping too, but lilidukes is right. The first time and your own fear are indeed, the worst part of it. Lilidukes, I didn't realize Brighteyes needed clippings. You are so wonderful to sweet little Brighteyes.:bowdown
Tara, I am wondering if we have need for concern of any poisoning? I have had 2 squirrels in the past with wild mushroom poisoning. I thought I might see some this year because there has been a fairly good wild mushroom "crop" this year in my area (MD). I don't know your location but it is a factor to consider. I am going to go back over this thread. I believe TSB member named Ellymae has direct experience with mushroom poisoning and you may want to PM her and ask for her to take a look. I am praying for your little sweetie and you. I know you are worried. :Love_Icon

Marty

[lilidukes]

I didn't think the teeth looked terrible but I do think they need to be clipped. Sorry Tara, I hate teeth clipping too, but lilidukes is right. The first time and your own fear are indeed, the worst part of it. Lilidukes, I didn't realize Brighteyes needed clippings. You are so wonderful to sweet little Brighteyes.:bowdown
Tara, I am wondering if we have need for concern of any poisoning? I have had 2 squirrels in the past with wild mushroom poisoning. I thought I might see some this year because there has been a fairly good wild mushroom "crop" this year in my area (MD). I don't know your location but it is a factor to consider. I am going to go back over this thread. I believe TSB member named Ellymae has direct experience with mushroom poisoning and you may want to PM her and ask for her to take a look. I am praying for your little sweetie and you. I know you are worried. :Love_Icon

Marty

be had opposites elongated we have only had to trim once.

[Tara]

I didn't think the teeth looked terrible but I do think they need to be clipped. Sorry Tara, I hate teeth clipping too, but lilidukes is right. The first time and your own fear are indeed, the worst part of it. Lilidukes, I didn't realize Brighteyes needed clippings. You are so wonderful to sweet little Brighteyes.:bowdown
Tara, I am wondering if we have need for concern of any poisoning? I have had 2 squirrels in the past with wild mushroom poisoning. I thought I might see some this year because there has been a fairly good wild mushroom "crop" this year in my area (MD). I don't know your location but it is a factor to consider. I am going to go back over this thread. I believe TSB member named Ellymae has direct experience with mushroom poisoning and you may want to PM her and ask for her to take a look. I am praying for your little sweetie and you. I know you are worried. :Love_Icon

Marty

I'm not sure about possible poisoning. I suppose it could be that. There are lots of mushrooms out right now...white ones and red ones. Both are being eaten. I looked at Ellymae's post, but must have looked at the wrong one. I'll have to go find the right one in the morning. I'm exhausted. Just gave LG more pedialyte and tums. She's still pitiful. :( Thank you for your prayers. :)

[Tara]

LG just peed and pooped. It may just be my eyes, but it seems like less "pieces" in her stools. However, there was a small chunk of white goo lying on top of urine beside poo-not mixed with poop. It's sticky and almost like a glob of infection?

[Jackie in Tampa]

yes push the hydration...

mushrooms...I have always been afraid to feed my sqs wild mushrooms, as I don't know the good ones from the bad ones...fingers crossed my sqs do know which ones are safe...
the story on them is if there is a bell shape to the base of their stem, they are poisonous.
OVERGROWN teeth will cause discomfort..but unless there is an infection, teeth do not create lethargy.
I would opt to not trim as she is showing signs of distress already, why add to it today. Watch her eat an out of shell pecan, if she can eat it, no need to trim, jmo. If she can crack a nut in a shell, she is fine.
the pics are too blurry for me to give honest opinion, they do appear a wee bit long {the lowers}...
I am sure you cked the roof of her mouth for punctures an have smelled her breath for foul odor...use a penlight to see, look for a hole or redness right behind her uppers.

did you decide to start her o the flagyl?
sending good vibes...:Love_Icon

[lilidukes]

jit she went with the cap star and metro. Pushing the fluids and extra calcium. The teeth issue we can address after her lethargy is under control.

Tara hoping this morning LG is feeling better. Don't forget the yogurt for the tummy.:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

I know we all know this...but the skull pic IR posted is really not a good example FOR TEETH...in reality, when the top molars are resting on the bottom molars...the lower incisors are neatly tucked up and behind upper incisors......that BIG gap is NOT there with healthy normal grey sqs...
I cannot say for other species...but common sense says the incisors are tools...and would meet each other in all sq species...the molars are the macerators and do the chewing.

Hoping for good news this AM:Love_Icon

Metro/flagyl is a very strong/yet safe anti biotic with anti fungal properties....acidiopholis or yogurt, some sort of probotic is recommended.

capstar is safe, although with no future protection, killing only what is immediately present. If worms are suspected to be culprit...getting a dewormer from vet is recommended.{Panacur or drontal}

One of the rehabbers will be able to help more...
hugs hugs hugs:Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

:) just for the record...I may be the most bitten TSB member...
but not a teeth expert :shakehead
I do trim teeth when I have to...I still freak everytime, even after 8 years of every three weeks...
with me, it never gets easier.:shakehead I hate it.
soooo waiting for an update:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Tara]

Good morning everyone. Little Girl seems a bit better. I got her out of her bag that she sleeps in and her eyes are much more alert. She ate a couple of bites of lettuce, drank some water, and jumped back into her bag. Her appearance is better though.
She's not touching any other foods that I offer. I haven't given her any nuts.
She's still not herself, as she would have woke me up wanting out. I don't know what is going on really....:shakehead
I was afraid to go to sleep, afraid that she wouldn't make it. Praise God she did.

[equine623]

I don't know Tara, I may be completely off base but if she has consistently gotten lethargic while in charge of her own diet, and recovered after being in your care, I would suspect there is some reason why she can't/won't eat a good diet on her own. Maybe its teeth...maybe there's something else going on.

My thoughts are get her through this immediate crisis, then keep her for a few weeks, or however long it is before she would reappear needing help. If you control her diet, and she doesn't relapse...then I guess you would have your answer.

:dono I'm just trying to toss some ideas out there.
Fluids are good, warm and comfy and feeling loved go a long way. It doesn't hurt to treat for intestinal worms, except that in nature ALL animals carry some parasite burden. If we take away the worms, then when they get re-exposed they will generally get slammed with more than what the body can comfortably handle. A strong immune system can and does handle the natural load within the body. If her immune system is weak because of diet or something inherent, then treat the worms but definitely work on building back up both her immune system and expose her to parasites (giving her time on the ground, contact with others, etc) to let her build back up to an acceptable parasite level gradually and while still under good nutritional support from you.

Umm...I'll step off my soap box now :rotfl My best friend teaches parasitology for our vet tech program, we love worms :D

Still thinking good thoughts for you both!

[Jackie in Tampa]

:goodpost
totally agree with all said...

[SammysMom]

:goodpost Really good post! Maybe a cycle of her normal "trouble time" at home will answer some questions. Good job watching out for your special girl! Don't you wish all of them had a human guardian angel?

[UDoWhat]

I don't know Tara, I may be completely off base but if she has consistently gotten lethargic while in charge of her own diet, and recovered after being in your care, I would suspect there is some reason why she can't/won't eat a good diet on her own. Maybe its teeth...maybe there's something else going on.

My thoughts are get her through this immediate crisis, then keep her for a few weeks, or however long it is before she would reappear needing help. If you control her diet, and she doesn't relapse...then I guess you would have your answer.

:dono I'm just trying to toss some ideas out there.
Fluids are good, warm and comfy and feeling loved go a long way. It doesn't hurt to treat for intestinal worms, except that in nature ALL animals carry some parasite burden. If we take away the worms, then when they get re-exposed they will generally get slammed with more than what the body can comfortably handle. A strong immune system can and does handle the natural load within the body. If her immune system is weak because of diet or something inherent, then treat the worms but definitely work on building back up both her immune system and expose her to parasites (giving her time on the ground, contact with others, etc) to let her build back up to an acceptable parasite level gradually and while still under good nutritional support from you.

Umm...I'll step off my soap box now :rotfl My best friend teaches parasitology for our vet tech program, we love worms :D

Still thinking good thoughts for you both!
Eq623, Great insight and information. This is kind of the same thing my own Dr. was trying to tell me when advising not to use so many anti-bacterial products. If we are killing off all the bacteria in our lives and immediate area, we are also killing the "good ones" too. Our systems won't know how to fight off the "bad guys" when we need it to fight. We need a certain amount of good and bad "things" around to keep our systems strong. Goes for worms in wildlife too, huh.:rotfl As I said, GREAT INFO!:thankyou
Tara, how is Little Girl? I would most definitely do what you are doing . It seems to be working to help her gain better ground. Also JIT and Lilidukes advice on teeth and clipping schedules is what I would go with. They do teeth clippings regularly and know what to look for. Also more good advice for waiting for Little Girl to become stronger before stressing her futher with teeth clipping. The mushroom idea is just that, an idea. I have had only 2 wilds come in with what I suspected wild mushroom poisoning. This was based on the finders reports of watching the squirrel eat posionous wild mushrooms. I did treat as a posioning case by pushing fluids and supportive care and was able to save one of the squirrels. Most wilds know what to eat or not to eat but I have heard of mushroom posioning in wilds before. I personally would not know a good from a bad mushroom unless it was waving a little red flag at me that said "do not eat".:sanp3 Hoping and praying for a good report.:Love_Icon

Marty

[lilidukes]

Tara last time you were here didn't I give you some immune booster that was either reddish or orange and kinda sticky/oily??? If I did you can give her .15 cc's a day. That stuff is full of all kinds of good stuff for her.

Was just talking to Kit and how about we come see you and LG later this week?

[Tara]

Tara last time you were here didn't I give you some immune booster that was either reddish or orange and kinda sticky/oily??? If I did you can give her .15 cc's a day. That stuff is full of all kinds of good stuff for her.

Was just talking to Kit and how about we come see you and LG later this week?

You did give me that...I think it was healix..or something like that? I'll start her on it today. Thanks!

I would LOVE for ya'll to visit!!! That would be awesome! I have to warn you though...if my precious LG is feeling better, beware! She's only used to me and E. :) Even my kids won't go near her! I can't promise she'll be nice. When she stayed in the house full time she used to leap for my 19 yr old daughter to bite her elbows! LOL! She's rotten with me and E though. High strung at times...but rotten. :) She stays in my room though...you'll be fine. When can ya'll come!?!?!?!!?

[Tara]

Update on LG. She had a spurt of energy earlier, and ate a little bit. I tried mixing some FV with the organic babyfood...but that was a fight. She wouldn't take it.

She is now back in her bag after being loved on by me and E. He gave her Cheerios...and she ate several of those. Her eyes aren't as bad as yesterday, but she's still not feeling well.

I have to run to town to get more veggies since she isn't eating the fresh zucchini, fresh cucumber, grape tomatoes, etc. I guess I'll try broccoli and cauliflower...and maybe artichoke? They used to really love artichoke.

Oh, and I HAVE to get that yogurt and more of the tums powder. It's already crushed and she takes it pretty well because it's berry flavored.

I'm low on romaine too...should I get more...or skip it because it isn't that good for her?

Her poop has switched from black, then to a dark brown, and now to a brownish green since yesterday. It's still well formed.

Can anyone think of anything else I should pick up for her while I'm out? I need some types of food with good nutrtional values that won't take away her calcium. I need help...as my primary diet consists of Mountain Dew and Reese's Cups. :poke

Thanks!

OH...and we noticed that she wants to eat lying down rather than up on her hind legs. Odd. She was on my lap though... ????

[lilidukes]

You did give me that...I think it was healix..or something like that? I'll start her on it today. Thanks!

I would LOVE for ya'll to visit!!! That would be awesome! I have to warn you though...if my precious LG is feeling better, beware! She's only used to me and E. :) Even my kids won't go near her! I can't promise she'll be nice. When she stayed in the house full time she used to leap for my 19 yr old daughter to bite her elbows! LOL! She's rotten with me and E though. High strung at times...but rotten. :) She stays in my room though...you'll be fine. When can ya'll come!?!?!?!!?

thinking may thursday or friday am.

What's another bite:rotfl I'll bring my bandaids

[lilidukes]

does she like avocado? sugar snap peas?

[Tara]

thinking may thursday or friday am.

What's another bite:rotfl I'll bring my bandaids

SOUND GREAT! Either day works for me!

Are you thinking we'll need to trim her teeth then too? Or will it be too soon since her diet is off? You can always teach me with some toothpicks or something. :D I'm glad you two will be able to get a good look at her teeth anyway. I don't know normal from not normal.

YOUR back has to get better so we can take a walk to the creek! It's my daily routine. :)

Now the tough part is going to be figuring out how to keep her happy in this house. She's so used to being outside...The last time I kept her in (for meds)she almost seemed depressed. :(

I'll pm you all of my info so you can map it. !!!! HOORAY!!!

[Tara]

does she like avocado? sugar snap peas?

Only Papa would eat avocado and sugar snap peas. I could try again...She loves corn, but I only give it to her occasionally, and I'm afraid to offer it right now due to possible MBD. She will eat a bit of grape. She ate a little yesterday. Anything else that's really good nutritionally?

I have to order some more blocks if she's going to be inside for a while. Should I order the growth formula still? Or wild? Or picky eaters? She used to eat and shred the growth formula ones...She loves pecans. Imagine that...

[Lady G]

I don't know anything about any of this, but I just wanted you to know you are both in my prayers. I hope she is better soon.
:grouphug

[lilidukes]

Only Papa would eat avocado and sugar snap peas. I could try again...She loves corn, but I only give it to her occasionally, and I'm afraid to offer it right now due to possible MBD. She will eat a bit of grape. She ate a little yesterday. Anything else that's really good nutritionally?

I have to order some more blocks if she's going to be inside for a while. Should I order the growth formula still? Or wild? Or picky eaters? She used to eat and shred the growth formula ones...She loves pecans. Imagine that...

Maybe try the picky eaters one??

Do you need another cage for your room??? I have a couple of large rabbit/guinea pig ones i could spare.

[Tara]

Maybe try the picky eaters one??

Do you need another cage for your room??? I have a couple of large rabbit/guinea pig ones i could spare.

That's a very nice offer. I have asked Eddie to bring in the cage from the trees. He said he'd try to get it in this afternoon or tomorrow. Whether he will be able to or not is another story. It's NOT an easy task for sure. :)
When he gets home, I'll ask him if he thinks we should borrow one of yours instead of trying to get that big thing down!
I'll let you know. I hate to use one of your cages...I know you take in lots of animals! :)

[lilidukes]

That's a very nice offer. I have asked Eddie to bring in the cage from the trees. He said he'd try to get it in this afternoon or tomorrow. Whether he will be able to or not is another story. It's NOT an easy task for sure. :)
When he gets home, I'll ask him if he thinks we should borrow one of yours instead of trying to get that big thing down!
I'll let you know. I hate to use one of your cages...I know you take in lots of animals! :)

The smaller cages I have an abundance of my bigger cages are another matter and are always in use and i'm always in need of more.:shakehead

[UDoWhat]

Tara, so glad Little Girl sounds like she is doing better this p.m. That lying down to eat stuff does sound like MBD. Getting ready to release one this week that had MBD and did the same thing. As her diet adjusted, she began to eat sitting up normally. It took about 3 weeks, though. I have had her since late fall. She is now stong and ready to go. So glad Lilidukes is helping you. You are in great hands.:thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

rice buddy = comfort
:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Tara]

So are we concluding that she most likely has MBD? :dono :shakehead

[lilidukes]

So are we concluding that she most likely has MBD? :dono :shakehead

Let's not conclude anything since she has been in and out of the house. May of been bad water, mushroom, parasite just :dono

Let's check her teeth, increase her calcium and treat for parasites. If this doesn't work we might have to see about finding a vet or a trip to Dr Dan.

LG is not getting worse so that is a positive:tilt

[equine623]

Was just wondering how she's doing...I've been thinking about you guys today. :poke Inquiring minds :)

Jill, CVT

[Tara]

Was just wondering how she's doing...I've been thinking about you guys today. :poke Inquiring minds :)

Jill, CVT

Hey! Thanks for asking! She's doing a good bit better. She's not quite her usual self yet...but almost.
She is no longer lethargic...but more tired than usual. She's slept a lot today. I'm not sure if the meds are just making her feel bad, or if whatever is wrong with her is the culprit. Her tail is now fluffed, not flat and laying there. This morning she seemed fine for about an hour or so. Running around, wanting out of her window...I know she's mad at me, but I'm not going to let her out right now. I have to figure out what's going on with her.

I've still been pushing the 500 mg of calcium/day. Getting a little less in than I'm supposed to...most of it ends up on her chin, as she's slinging it when I syringe it in her mouth. I've ordered the powder from Leigh, so I'm hoping it'll be easier with that.

We're also continuing the metro for the full seven days, and I'm going to repeat the capstar treatment on Monday. I've been pushing the yogurt too..but have to mix it with peanut butter so she'll eat it! I've tried everything!!! I can't get her to take anything with FV mixed in. Wish I could...

She's very funny. She wants to bite me, but hasn't. She puts her teeth on my finger to let me know that she could if she wanted to. LOL! That's only started since I've been forcing her to take her meds! My little angel with an attitude!

Oh, and she's still eating the romaine, but has also started eating a little of the following: grape tomatoes , avocado, broccoli, and sweet potato. Seems like she's shredding more than she's eating, but at least it's better than snubbing her nose at it! She's also hiding her block-I think she's pretending it's a pecan...tough love... :(

[Tara]

:goodpost Don't you wish all of them had a human guardian angel? It's almost not fair that they don't!!! Isn't it?

Thanks to everyone for helping the other day! :thankyou :thankyou :thankyou :thankyou :thankyou :grouphug :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

:poke How's LG?