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Pointy Tale
06-30-2011, 10:19 AM
Hi, I know someone with a domestic rabbit who has a respiratory infection.

Vet prescribed liquid baytril 0.40ml (total per day /0.20ml each dose). Vet made the baytril in a compound of “apple flavor”.

They are supposed to “squirt” the syringe full of meds into the rabbit’s mouth. The rabbit does NOT like this and spits the medication out.

They called the vet again and the vets only suggestion is to “syringe the meds into the rabbits mouth”, but it’s not working.

Does anyone have any suggestions to “administer” 0.20ml of liquid apple flavored Baytril to a domestic rabbit? (other than forcing it)

Thank you!

pappy1264
06-30-2011, 10:23 AM
How are they putting the syringe into its mouth? Grab the bunny by the scruff, get a good hold (but in their lap so their legs have support). Put syringe in from the side, going to the back of the mouth. Keep the syringe in its mouth for a few seconds and gently blow on his nose, he will (should) swallow, then take syringe out. The important thing is to get the syringe in the side, by the back teeth. Good luck!

Pointy Tale
06-30-2011, 10:33 AM
pappy1264—:thankyou Thank you very much for your quick reply.

They are trying to hold the rabbit in a towel but it seems they’re only getting the lower part of the body in the towel. One person is holding the rabbit and the other person is trying to get the syringe in the mouth. The rabbit is flicking the syringe with the front paws before they can even get it near the face. So they seem to have some difficulty getting close to the mouth.

You wouldn’t happen to have a picture of the proper way to hold/wrap rabbit would you? or direct me to a thread to look at?

Rescue04
06-30-2011, 12:59 PM
OK....try this, sit down indian style. Put several thick towels on you lap. Hold the rabbit by the scruff and if you can, cover the eyes with another cloth. have someone else stick the syringe in the back side corner of the mouth, squirt it in - the blow on his/her nose. they should swallow it. If you lived closer i would tell you to come over and we could inject it if that doesn't work.

Pointy Tale
06-30-2011, 01:26 PM
Rescue04—Thank you very much for your reply. :thankyou That is fabulous about covering the eyes.

When you say you could inject it, does that mean with a needle, like a shot? Can the vet do that? If the vet can do that, do they need the injection everyday?

I too wish we were closer, I'd hop right over! Thanks,

CritterMom
06-30-2011, 02:00 PM
I know Baytril injections in rats are a bit dicey - they can cause skin ulceration at the injection site. Sometimes a little tough love is needed...

gs1
06-30-2011, 04:10 PM
i don't think baytril injections would work .. i don't think it's that kind of drug.

there's several ways of working with baytril....

first ... taste it yourself... but make sure you spit it out .... don't swallow....

baytril is very bitter....

when i had my rabbits we had both the strawberry flavour and the banana flavour....

i had to keep them both in the fridge and let the syringe warm to room temperature before giving it to the rabbits....

the strawberry and the banana were both taken off a saucer ... the flavour was strong enough that the rabbits liked them.... but the banana flavour deteriorated by the end of the week.... the strawberry didn't ....

(we used baytril a couple of times and i'd always request the strawberry ..)

if i had to insert a syringe (no needle ofcourse) into their mouths i'd use the side and squirt very slowly to the otherside ...meaning it goes across their tongue not to the back of the throat ...(i've been told they can choke otherwise) ... and i'd also give the rabbit a chance to swallow ... move their head a bit.... and stroke the neck/throat etc... (never the chin ..they hate that)

as for a bunny burito .... it takes practice .... you have to place the rabbit sitting on a large cloth and bring up the back side and then the side pieces to the back and have someone hold the cloth....

on the other hand i found using a pillowcase worked really well.... place the rabbit inside the pillowcase and lift the pillowcase up towards the ceiling so that the rabbit is forced to move to the very end of it .... and keep folding down the end of the pillowcase until the head of the rabbit is exposed ... then twist all the cloth to the back .... ( a real twist ...not just a gathering of the fabric) .... and still have another person help holding both the rabbit and the fabric....

as for where to do this .... i used a bathroom counter between 2 sinks.... ( there was enough space) ... i'd also use a table against a wall .... and maybe the floor .... if i had to... i wouldn't use a lap because the rabbit won't feel very stable and will add to his wish to escape.... if a rabbit tries to leap off a table or lap or struggles too much there is a good chance they'll twist their back and become paralyzed .... this has happened many times....

it all depends on the rabbits ofcourse... they've all so many different personalities.... and also a lot depends on the owner and range of experience they've had medicating rabbits....

runestonez has 11 rabbits ... i'm sure she has ideas too....

rabbits are very smart, sneaky animals... :)

ps: i did ask the vet about the baytril in the fridge and they said no problem after looking at me like i had two heads for tasting it .... but it is an awful tasting medication even with the flavouring....

gs1
06-30-2011, 04:12 PM
ps: it's possible that the vet can add strawberry to the apple baytril ... i don't think apple is strong enough to mask the bitterness of the baytril....

otherwise it's another ? $30 to request a new one....

:shakehead

Pointy Tale
06-30-2011, 06:24 PM
CritterMom—Thank you for your reply. Good to know about the injection! :thankyou

gs1—that is Great information. :thankyou I have passed on your detailed instructions, thank you so much for that, very simple and easy to understand!!!! :) They are going to try tonight with the apple flavored on a piece of the rabbits favorite apple or celery and see what happens. Personally I love the pillowcase idea the best, so hopefully they’ll use it. Excellent information about keeping them stable or risking paralysis. This is the first time the little one is needing meds, poor thing, so cute too. Their vet didn’t tell them to refrigerate the meds. You're right about the meds it was $4.84 for baytril and $20 as a compound fee (to make it taste like apple).

I guess they’re having problems finding the rabbit’s mouth, and then the rabbit swats them, hops away and they have to go catch the rabbit. The vet said maybe on apple or celery and see if the rabbit eats it. They will try again around 9pm tonight.

:thankyou everyone for such great and thoughtful tips and tricks!!! :thankyou

Runestonez
06-30-2011, 09:33 PM
Yup...domestics can be buggers! :D
Too bad it wasn't next week...we just finished a whole bunch of How-To videos on rabbit care! We post them to our new website in a week or so!

First off...I suggest your friend work on learning to trance her bunn!
Uber helpful when medicating, trimming nails etc...

We trance our bunns on their backs when medicating.
Wrap them securely in a towel...
Using the syringe...insert it in the inter dental space (the space between the incisors and the molars).
If you squirt the meds near the front of the mouth the bunn will use their tongue to push it back out.
You don't have to drown them...but insert the syringe so it sits at the back of the tongue and carefully squirt the meds in.

I would suggest you ask your vet for the pills.
I find Baytril pills soaked in pineapple juice till they fall apart...pulled up into a syringe...is taken MUCH better! Our kids think it is a treat! :)

Baytril is bitter...and some bunns actually like that! LOL :D
Our first bunn we were losing our minds trying to get pills into her...
I finally held one out and said PLEASE JUST EAT IT...and she did! lol :D

Runestonez
06-30-2011, 09:46 PM
I forgot to say...
if you are still having problems...let me know...
I can do a step by step photo guide for you! :)

Remember YOU are the boss...
a nice loud "HEY!" when she kicks is sometimes enough to catch their attention and allow you to medicate! :)

gs1
06-30-2011, 11:32 PM
i've never tranced a rabbit or even think i'd want to attempt it ... but i've already told runestonez that when i get more rabbits i'll be going to her house for super intensive teaching..... (and i'm serious cause she's close by)....

vets don't know that the flavour doesn't last a week at room temperature ...at least the strawberry and the banana didn't .... but they (especially the strawberry) lasted longer (in the fridge).

it's easy to know just keep tasting it every day.... (and spitting it out)...

as for the apple .. i think it's too light to cover the taste of baytril....

if they can get strawberry added at no cost that would be great....

as for the celery ...just to let rabbit owners know.. celery is one of the most high pesticide vegetables (so organic is best) and also cut it up into 1/2 inch slices ... rabbits can choke on the strings....

to find the rabbits mouth they have to lift up his side lip ... not his front part cause they hate that .... and might bite... (same with the chin - they hate that)

i was always careful to give very little liquid at a time cause they can choke... and i've always found it easier to aim for the side of the mouth.... especially when giving something like unflavoured simethicone ... which meant that i'd have to give a large amount of liquid....

the baytril tablets soaked in pineapple juice is a good idea as a treat...but i'm always very careful with rabbits and anything sweet....

as you can tell i'm the 'inexperienced and neurotic rabbit mama' and runestonez is the 'seen it all/done it all laidback one'.....

ps: let the vet know about the flavouring needing refrigeration and the baytril going in the fridge ... it does have to be shaken before given so give it an extra long shake just because cold baytril might not mix as well as room temperature baytril....and while it's cold i'd remove a syringe of it and let that go to room temp before giving to the rabbit....

the alternative would be to have the baytril at room temp .... shake it properly and have several syringes ready ...fill those and use one for each dose....

:D as you can tell i'm passionate about rabbits.... :Love_Icon i totally miss them and their wonderful (no one is going to tell me what to do ) personalities...

Runestonez
07-01-2011, 07:45 AM
LOL :D

People forget even domestic rabbits aren't all sunshine and bunny farts!
They have an attitude the size of a rottweiler and if you let them they will push you around!

GS1-It's not that I am an old hand...I'm just bigger and meaner than you! ;)

Our kids used to do the same thing and it was impossible to medicate them.
Then we took in a bunn with AB resistant Pasturella...and it took 6 months of Baytril till she was back on her feet again! We had loads of time to find out what did and didn't work.
And to develop a bunny resistant attitude!
:liar

I made up a short video just now to show how to burrito and medicate a bunn. GS1...DON'T watch! he he he :D I am holding him on his back! :D
It isn't as good and clear as I would like...but Hubby has already headed to work...so this is what you get! :D

Please excuse the jammies...it is first thing in the morning and it is my day off of bunny duty! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDWlFt3mjw8

Squirlgirl
07-01-2011, 10:51 AM
:wahoo great video Runestonez!


Love those jammies! :flash3

Pointy Tale
07-01-2011, 12:12 PM
They’ve had Success!! They put the medicine on a piece of celery and the rabbit ate it. They also had success this morning, so that’s how they’re going to handle it!!!!! Thank you all so very much for helping and giving advice! :wott

:) Runestonez— :thankyou:bowdown hi, thank you! I will tell the rabbit to wait until next week to be sick, lol!!! :D That is AWESOME that you’ve created how-to videos, where is your website, I’d love to see them.:poke They actually give the rabbit acidophilus in berry flavor, and the rabbit just gobbles it right up. The vet said they didn’t make the strength low enough in baytril for their rabbit in pill form—I don’t know if that’s true or not, but that’s what they told me. But I do like the idea of trying to give it that way or even soaking it. You sure know a lot about rabbits! Thank you so very much for such detailed information!!!!:bowdown

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac99/PointyTale/Smileys/spitcoffee.gifOh my gosh, I spit my coffee out, “rabbits aren't all sunshine and bunny farts!”, that is hilarious.:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac99/PointyTale/Smileys/spitcoffee.gif Oh, I’m sorry about your Bunny with was AB resistant Pasturella. I hope they’re doing better now. HOLY COW—that is AMAZING, you just made that video, seriously???? I LOVE, let me say that again, LOVE that video!!! Thank you so much.:bowdown :bowdown :thumbsup :thumbsup That is FABULOUS….I am in total AWE. How do I say thank you for that, thank you from my heart, that is amazing. I can’t wait to share it with them too.


:) gs1— :thankyou thank you. Is that true about the flavor not lasting a week at room temperature (you tasted it didn’t you? You’re so good). I told them about this and they are keeping it in the refrig. If they ever need meds again I will remember the strawberry, but so far the little rabbit is taking their medicine on celery—YAY!!! We didn’t know that either about the ½ inch slices, the rabbit always got an entire piece—thank you! Yes, they did get organic—Earths Best or something like that. Yup, I think they’re afraid to get bit. I think you’re very Proactive and knowledge about rabbits, I will have to remember all of this Great advice. Since you miss rabbits, would you like me to send them over for a visit??? :D :Love_Icon I’m kidding of course, they love their rabbit, but I know you’d be so good with them.


:) Squirlgirl— :wave123 I know that is an AMAZING video by Runestonez!


Thank you very much everyone, I really appreciate the assistance!

Runestonez
07-01-2011, 12:54 PM
That is good news! :D

No they don't make Baytril in bunny doses...but you can take a 50mg tablet and cut it down into quarters...heck of a lot cheaper too!

I forgot to mention this earlier...oral suspensions are usually sticky...bunnys HATE HATE HATE sticky whiskers. When I dose with Metacam or Ovol(stickiness) I suck it up in the syringe...then wipe it off with a damp cloth or rinse it under the tap...works alot better!

Yes our AB resistant bunny is just fine...alive and kicking so to speak!
I went to India for surgery in 2009 and she broke our petsitters nose and blacked two of her eyes! :) I DID tell her not to bug Peppers...but Peppy is fuzzy and cute...and people always end up regretting it! :D :D :D
Most of my personal experience is with aggressive bunns. And a no BS attitude is a necessity!

The How-To videos (pending my and the vice-presidents approval) will be on the Ontario Rabbit Education Organization website...we are looking to launch our updated site...<fingers crossed>...next week. But I have learned that IT guys lie!
You can check out our old site at www.ontariorabbits.org
The new one will be the same addy....but much nicer! :)
The How-To videos cover lots of FUN things like medicating...different types of holds for easy to difficult bunns, anal gland cleaning (my personal favorite :shakehead ), how to burrito, trimming nails (dark and light coloured...how long etc...) I forget what else we taped...I just know it is 4 hours of my life I am NEVER getting back!

(I swear Admin I am NOT advertising--much) :)

gs1
07-01-2011, 01:55 PM
Remember YOU are the boss...
a nice loud "HEY!" when she kicks is sometimes enough to catch their attention and allow you to medicate! :)

:D ...seriously ....:rotfl

mine hop all over me .... we can't have this discussion .... it's like we're talking about two different species.....:D

gs1
07-01-2011, 02:12 PM
They’ve had Success!!

:D :thumbsup WHOOT!!!!


:) gs1— :thankyou thank you. Is that true about the flavor not lasting a week at room temperature (you tasted it didn’t you? You’re so good).

I couldn't understand why they loved it in the beginning and wouldn't take it after a day or two ... so i tasted it almost every day after that.....

let me stress: spit it out!!!! don't swallow.

it might be that apple is a stable flavour ... it's just the (strawberry/banana) flavouring that doesn't keep ... the baytril is fine at room temp for a week etc....

also let me stress again ... the baytril needs to be shaken ... so maybe they're better off shaking it and dividing the dose.... and then refrigerate.

it is interesting to keep an eye on this ... maybe the apple is the most stable of the flavourings.... and then i can remember when i need it

...or ... just take runestonez suggestion of the tablets.... (cheaper and keeps much longer)

(and she is brilliant isn't she?:bowdown :bowdown :bowdown runestonez:bowdown :bowdown :bowdown :D )


Since you miss rabbits, would you like me to send them over for a visit??? :D :Love_Icon I’m kidding of course, they love their rabbit, but I know you’d be so good with them.


omg...are you kidding??? :D i would love it.... the only reason i don't visit runestonez more often ...apart from the 45 mins trip is that i'd probably return home with one or two or three rabbits...maybe not even with her permission ... :D or maybe if she started getting busy with wildlife (waiting on the ministry:poke :shakehead )...with her permission ....:D

Runestonez
07-01-2011, 02:18 PM
ahem...
I'm blushing! :D :tilt

The awesomeness about the pills is...if you end up with too many...and they keep for a longer time than the solution...and since you helped your friends...if they felt the need to donate the rest to wildlife care...:poke

gs1
07-01-2011, 02:19 PM
:wahoo great video Runestonez!


Love those jammies! :flash3

:D

but seriously .... i'd like to see you try that with one of my rabbits.... maybe a spirited mini rex .... like misha... omg... he sounds like your pepper.....actually no... no one sounds like your pepper omg.... must meet her.....:D