why did they die?

[Chickenlegs]

A rehabber near me had 5 babies--no info from the person who did the original intake and she got the babies second hand from a Wildlife center in Northern VA. Three of the babies died. The symptoms were " the water bottle seamed to not be going down. Then one by one a few days apart one would start sitting in the "Buffalo" position, still eating, then would find one on deaths door and couldn't bring it back. When I would hold them they would drink fluid right to the end." Does anybody have any idea what might be killing these babies? there are still two left. I'd hate to see them go to the bridge if there's anything that can be done for them. This person has almost 20 years experience so she has done the obvious. She's wracking her brains too.

[UDoWhat]

Any way to call the center to get additional info? Hard to tell if it was poison, hypothermia, starvation, and systems shutting down slowly, or just what. I know rehabilitators in N. Virginia that might help too. What other symptoms? I have had squirrels come in and begin dying one at a time. Are/ were they dying of thirst? How old are these babies. What antibiotics are they on? If extreme emaciation, they could have been started on solid food too soon for bodies to handle. What did the center feed them. Call the center and really press for answers, if you can. I am not far from you. Does you friend need help meds. Give us a little more info age, weights, eyes closed/open. We can figure this out.

Marty

[Rhapsody]

I would be interested in knowing what they were feed, formula wise, before they were brought to the rehab center....... Esbilac has been known to kill baby squirrels like this when undigested formula gets stuck in their intestines.

[SquirrelsinSingapore]

A rehabber near me had 5 babies--no info from the person who did the original intake and she got the babies second hand from a Wildlife center in Northern VA. Three of the babies died. The symptoms were " the water bottle seamed to not be going down. Then one by one a few days apart one would start sitting in the "Buffalo" position, still eating, then would find one on deaths door and couldn't bring it back. When I would hold them they would drink fluid right to the end." Does anybody have any idea what might be killing these babies? there are still two left. I'd hate to see them go to the bridge if there's anything that can be done for them. This person has almost 20 years experience so she has done the obvious. She's wracking her brains too.
Not excately sure, I'll change that bottle ASAP if I were you...
RIP sweet babies... =(

Hm. Could you be specific, how old are the babies?

[island rehabber]

Sometimes it can be something as ridiculous as the water bottle is CLOGGED, and they died of severe dehydration. Always look for the most obvious, simple reason first. (My engineer BF taught me this, noticing that I tend to look for the most exotic, rare, complicated reason for everything, like in the show "House" :shakehead. )

[lilidukes]

Are they on well water? Could their water be the problem?

[mpetys]

Sometimes it can be something as ridiculous as the water bottle is CLOGGED, and they died of severe dehydration. Always look for the most obvious, simple reason first. (My engineer BF taught me this, noticing that I tend to look for the most exotic, rare, complicated reason for everything, like in the show "House" :shakehead. )

I have a horrible thing that happened about 8 years ago concerning a water bottle. A neighbor was trying to find a home for a quaker parrot that his sister had. She was tired of it and was planning on just letting it go. I took it and had it all set up in a cage and put two different water bottles in it. One was a small bird water bottle and the other a larger one. When one got low, either my husand or I would refill it. At one point, the small one was empty but the larger one was full. I put off filling the small one.

Over the next several days I assumed my husband was keeping the larger bottle filled as I never saw it needing to be refilled. Then one afternoon, I saw that the bird was very weak! As I was getting ready to take him to the emergency vet, I checked his cage and found that the water bottle that had water in it was stopped up! The bird was apparently taking his food pellets and getting them wet by tapping against the tip of the water bottle. I had seen many different wild birds that would steal dog food from outdoor dog food dishes and they would bring them to our pond to dip in the water to soften up to eat! The parrots water bottle was stopped up with parrot food pellets!

Unfortunately the bird did not survive. It was a horrible lesson that has stayed with me. Even now, with the squirrels, I have a habit of tapping the nozzle of their water bottles when I feed them or any time I worry if it doesn't seem like the water level is not going down. Just to make sure!

Michele

[4skwerlz]

Even now, with the squirrels, I have a habit of tapping the nozzle of their water bottles when I feed them or any time I worry if it doesn't seem like the water level is not going down. Just to make sure!
Michele

I do the same thing. Every day.

[gs1]

i know they pee and poop in their water but isn't there someway to have a waterbowl that hangs on the side with a protective thing on top ... and is made of steel.... i think that parrot owners have them.....

i wouldn't even expect most wild animals to understand the concept of water bottles...

:grouphug

and maybe marbles inside so they don't get water up their noses....

[island rehabber]

i know they pee and poop in their water but isn't there someway to have a waterbowl that hangs on the side with a protective thing on top ... and is made of steel.... i think that parrot owners have them.....

i wouldn't even expect most wild animals to understand the concept of water bottles...

:grouphug

and maybe marbles inside so they don't get water up their noses....

gs1, I thought the same as you did about "wild animals and water bottles". truth is, it takes squirrels precisely .0001 of a second to figure out water bottles. You and I have grossly underestimated the fuzzbutts. :D

[scoobysnack]

I mostly use water bowls. They get icky but that's ok I just change them. I've had a lot of water bottle issues. Many brand new ones just not working. My rats have a water bottle. It's small on purpose. I'm forced to look at it every single day and fill it every other day. They drink A LOT and I know if that water level hasn't changed in a few hours they are NOT getting water. Many times I've had to reposition water bottles, tap on them, move them etc to get them working right.

[mpetys]

gs1, I thought the same as you did about "wild animals and water bottles". truth is, it takes squirrels precisely .0001 of a second to figure out water bottles. You and I have grossly underestimated the fuzzbutts. :D

And if you have 2 like my last 2 who refuse to even approach the water bottle and you know they are not drinking because you marked the water level with a marker, then you take their syringe with or without formula in it and you push it through the cage bars near the nozzle of the water bottle. As they go for the syringe, they bump the nozzle and finally "get it". :D

Michele

[island rehabber]

And if you have 2 like my last 2 who refuse to even approach the water bottle and you know they are not drinking because you marked the water level with a marker, then you take their syringe with or without formula in it and you push it through the cage bars near the nozzle of the water bottle. As they go for the syringe, they bump the nozzle and finally "get it". :D

Michele
um...yeah...now that you mention it, I did have a little girl who needed applesauce on the nozzle to get her to drink....:D

SCOOBS: try the ones made by Lixit -- they are excellent.

[Chickenlegs]

Hi everybody. I wish I had more information to share on the babies but there's none. Eyes are open. That's about all I know--and about all she knows. Neither the intake person NOR the wildlife center gave her any info about the babies. I think the little guys slipped through a protocol crack. I'm pretty sure she uses Esbilac. I wondered about the description "Buffalo position" which I guess is hunched up--and they would drink from a syringe. I'm forwarding the suggestions to her. I hate to see the little guys die from something as preventable as a stopped up water bottle. She has YEARS of experience but I guess it's the details that bite us in the butt--and that's why TSB is such an amazing clearing house of info--LOTS of good brains, good hearts and experience. Thanks everybody.

[Rhapsody]

I'm pretty sure she uses Esbilac.I am not saying it was the Esbilac, but I had a precious baby girl die on me in the same way manner you are speaking of due to undigested formula mix that got stuck in her digestive tract and I almost lost her brother the same way - - - - thats when I made the decision to switch to FOX VALLEY - :thumbsup

[Jester]

I wondered about the description "Buffalo position" which I guess is hunched up--and they would drink from a syringe.
I know I'm not a rehabber so I know very little about this sort of thing, but I know my flyer often goes into that "hunched" position when he's going to the bathroom. I call it his potty stance, I can always tell when he's going. Could it be possible its having trouble passing stuff back out so to speak, and that's why it remains in that stance for a while? That might also go along Rhapsodys post about undigested formula trapped in the digestive tract.. It could be partially blocking stuff from entering its bowels or bladder..

Could this be the buffalo stance the squirrel remains in? If so the problem might be more than just the water bottle..
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6664/buffalob.jpg

[UDoWhat]

I know I'm not a rehabber so I know very little about this sort of thing, but I know my flyer often goes into that "hunched" position when he's going to the bathroom. I call it his potty stance, I can always tell when he's going. Could it be possible its having trouble passing stuff back out so to speak, and that's why it remains in that stance for a while? That might also go along Rhapsodys post about undigested formula trapped in the digestive tract.. It could be partially blocking stuff from entering its bowels or bladder..

Could this be the stance she's she said the squirrel remains in? If so the problem might be more than just the water bottle..
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6664/buffalob.jpg
It could be but in my experience when a squirrel is sitting hunched over with it's head tucked to it's tummy, you have a VERY sick squirrel. I fly in to "purple alert" when I see that position. I'd say 95% of the time it is a sick squirrel. The other 5% of the squirrels just want to see mommie have a heart attack. All kidding aside, when I see that position I get worried. :shakehead
Also, the formula remaining in the digestive track could also mean that their systems are shutting down and digestion is no longer taking place. I'm just wondering if these babies were poisoned somehow. The water bottle theory could just mean they were too sick to drink on their own. I guess we will not know for sure with no information to go on. IDK just a shame in any case.

Marrty, Licensed Maryland Master Wildlife Rehabilitator

[gs1]

gs1, You and I have grossly underestimated the fuzzbutts. :D[/SIZE][/SIZE]


ahhh.... so what else is new?:D :D :D

[Jester]

It could be but in my experience when a squirrel is sitting hunched over with it's head tucked to it's tummy, you have a VERY sick squirrel. I fly in to "purple alert" when I see that position. I'd say 95% of the time it is a sick squirrel. The other 5% of the squirrels just want to see mommie have a heart attack. All kidding aside, when I see that position I get worried. :shakehead
Also, the formula remaining in the digestive track could also mean that their systems are shutting down and digestion is no longer taking place. I'm just wondering if these babies were poisoned somehow. The water bottle theory could just mean they were too sick to drink on their own. I guess we will not know for sure with no information to go on. IDK just a shame in any case.

Marrty, Licensed Maryland Master Wildlife Rehabilitator
I was just trying to think of what the "buffalo position" the squirrels keep going in could possibly be.. and the way Jester arches his back up in his potty stance looks kind of buffalo-like so I thought maybe there was a chance their problem could have been potty related.. :dono
Oh well, I tried.. it is a shame.. :shakehead

[Chickenlegs]

She thought of the water bottle first thing. It's a tragic mystery but I bet there's a clue in "the buffalo" posture. One good thing has come of it all. She's gonna join TSB--said she's heard of it. Hope she's here soon!

[UDoWhat]

I was just trying to think of what the "buffalo position" the squirrels keep going in could possibly be.. and the way Jester arches his back up in his potty stance looks kind of buffalo-like so I thought maybe there was a chance their problem could have been potty related.. :dono
Oh well, I tried.. it is a shame.. :shakehead
Jester, the "buffalo position" to those who do greys, always makes me sit up and take notice of it. It does sound a lot like when Jester is in his potty stance. But with Buffalo position their heads are tucked really tight almost to their tummy. When/if you see it you know trouble could be brewing. Your thought about potty related is very good. If their systems were shutting down, their bowels would also be very slow too. I have done flyers before but I don't remember that they do that position. It is a shame to lose these little ones with no clues how to help. :shakehead

Marty

[Scooterzmom]

R.I.P. sweet little angels. Your life was short but you touched many. :Love_Icon