Malocclusion - When to consider tooth removal

[WolfDancer024]

Hi Everyone. Well, I may be looking for a vet who can do more than just trim Chucker's teeth. :shakehead I was finally able to get a good look at Chuck's upper incisiors last night (that took MONTHS to come in - pretty sure they came in 2 months ago and he was born in September). They are set back a bit and are not aligned with his lower incisors at all (off set to the side, one lower and one upper appear to be lined up). I wish I could get a picture, but that is nearly impossible, most of the time if Chuck's see the camera (regular or phone), he wants to put his nose right on the lens or try to chew on the camera/phone, so getting a tooth shot that is't blurry is a bit of a problem. :dono

My question I guess is, when does one consider removing teeth due to malocclusion? I don't want to remove his teeth unless absolutely necessary. I "squirrel burritoed" him and was able to snip the ever so smallest bit of tooth off of one of his lower incisors before he wriggled free, but I don't know if I will be able to get his top teeth, at all. He eats fine and still chews things up, but his teeth are not filing well and I'm terrified for him to get hurt. Does anyone have suggestions?

[Rhapsody]

I would say this is when you need to seek the opinion of a qualified vet.

I have a little guy that was Dx with Malocclusion at the young age of 7 weeks old, plus he has a hairlip (cleft palette) and is slightly mentally challenged..... so with all these issues going a qualified vet as recommend that Marven have his four front teeth removed to ensure a better quality of life for him and to cut down on the risk of infection he could get every time we have to trim his teeth... which seems to be about every 2 1/2 weeks atm.

[Ellymae]

I have not been on this board as long as many of the others here, but here is what I know. Like Rhapsody, I too have squirrels (2) with malocclusions. I have to trim their teeth every 2 weeks it seems.

My first experience with trimming teeth was with a wild squirrel that I caught which appeared to be about 6 years old. She apparently suffered a fall, and when I caught her, her upper teeth looked like elephant tusk, which were curling back up into the side of her face. She tamed down beautifully and pretty much ate baby food because she couldn't eat anything else.

I had her for 2 1/2 years before she did get an infection when a piece of her tooth got lodged into her upper mouth when it was clipped. We didn't know it was there until the infection set in, and my vet could not find the sliver of tooth. She was treated with antibiotics, but the infection was so bad that I lost her.

My thoughts are this, and please, anyone else chime in. Not all squirrels will eat baby food (including the 2 that I have now), so their teeth have to be trimmed. What I have learned is that when clipping the lower teeth, they seem to fly up and out, and when clipping the upper teeth, they fly up and in. Now when I trim the upper teeth, I insert a small round wooden cuticle stick behind the teeth to keep them from going into the throat. While holding them, the wrap is pulled up over the eyes so they can't see whats coming, and the clipping goes much quicker.

I keep a sterilized femur bone in cages for squirrels that can still grind their teeth down. You can get them at PetSmart. They are put on the porch also for the wild squirrels to grind on.

[babybleu]

I've had Chumpy for almost 3 years and she needs to have her teeth trimmed about every 3 to 4 weeks. I've heard that the tooth removal is a very delicate and tricky surgery as their teeth come out the the end of a jawbone that moves independently from the opposite side. While trimming is never easy, (although my vet does it for me!!) if that's what's got to be done for them to be able to eat, that's what has to be done! I think as long as it's not hampering their eating, not growing into their face, inside of their mouth, or down their throat, that removal is not necessary. Chumpy's front teeth don't ever line up but they do have teeth in the back part of their mouth for chewing. I'm no expert at this, by any means, but that's my opinion.

[Ellymae]

These are the teeth from the first clipping of the wild squirrel that I mentioned above. If they were straightened out, they would be about 1 inch long. The dark tooth was pulled out of her throat by the vet.

[Ellymae]

Babybleu, I totally agree. My vet said he did not feel comfortable removing the teeth because of the very reason you mentioned. They do have 3 little molars inside each cheek, both upper and lower.

I meant to say above that the upper teeth fly down and in when clipped...not fly up and in.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Hi, we had a mallo girl (Peeky) Chris Clark told to me to crush monkey biscuit and add liquid formula -make it like cookie dough balls I added a tiny bit of peanut butter and she loved them. They were very easy to chew for kids with bad teeth! Hope this helps!:flash3

[djarenspace9]

I think you could poll 5 vets and get 5 different answers, ranging from Yes, No, Maybe and in-between!
Every case is a bit different and you have to take all factors in consideration.

I thought removing my Trixie's teeth was the best option for a good quality life, but my vet who trims her teeth voted a big fat NO!.

His main reason is that it's a very intrusive procedure and risky, as with any surgery.
He is able to grind her teeth down with a dremel tool without sedation.
She has to have it done every 2 weeks without fail, but has gotten used to the visits and stays calm before, during and after.
She's 10 months old and has been trimmed every 2 weeks since she was 7 weeks old.

I think if something changes, if she needs to be sedated to do the procedure or if I had to clip them,
then I'd push for removal, because then her risk of problems and infection increases.
For now I trust his decision and won't go looking for trouble (as he said to me).

PS. My vet is not allowed to quit, move or die as long as Trixie has her front teeth!!!! :rotfl

[babybleu]

I had Chumpy done once with gas and a dremel and she wasn't the same for 3 days after... wouldn't eat, come out, just not doing very well. She sprang back but my vet said that those dremels can get very hot quickly. Kudos to your vet for being able to do this without sedation, or squirrel attack!! Also to the super tempered squirrel for understanding. We have one hold her, me cover her eyes and offer moral support and the vet does the clipping. I think that we could probably do it much easier at home but my hubby doesn't like to her his baby cry. Sometimes it works out good and other times, the outcome isn't always what we hope. We clip with side cutter but I heard that jewelers tools are even better. There is a Dr. in NY that has done the surgery with some success, can't remember his name, ?? I'm thinking Pilny? Maybe someone else on here knows.

[WolfDancer024]

Thank you everyone!!! :thankyou

Chuck can still eat just fine, but if he shows any signs of difficulty I will be using these suggestions. I'm waiting to hear back from someone who can put me in touch with a squirrel friendly vet in my area (or within 8-10hrs driving distance).

I won't remove Chuck's teeth unless a vet suggests it, I jsut am so fearful of some type of infection or a tooth getting lodged where it shouldn't! :shakehead

It's a good thing that I don't have children, with as much stress and worry that I put on myself with my critters, I'd be in the loony bin if I had human children to worry about (having human neices and a nephew is hard enough)!!! :D

Thank you again!

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi WolfDancer
My friend has been on Vacation. She said the Vet has a new partner. She no longer works for the Vet clinic.
Sorry I could not help you with this. :shakehead She will get a hold of me if she finds some one. Then I will let you know. :thumbsup
Good luck with your search. Christal

[WolfDancer024]

:thankyou

Thank you for trying, I do appreciate it! Please let me know if you hear of anyone else in CO. I have the name/number of someone in Wichita, KS but would much rather stay in CO if I can. I hope to find someone soon, as each day passes I become more and more concerned about Chuck's teeth (the upper incisors might begin to "tusk" out of his mouth if I don't do something soon and I can only burrito him long enough to look at his teeth and I have yet to get a good cut) :shakehead . Thank you again!!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=649247&posted=1#post649247
odontomas...
the reason to remove teeth in young malocluded sqs...
I have been trimming Rockys single remaining incisor tooth for 8 years...
taking a chance everytime...
he's too old now to do anything different...
but had I known what I do now...I would have had that last tooth pulled when I had his other upper incisor removed...
what good are teeth that do not work?
just my opinion after living it...

the pros and cons

maybe a good debate idea to help understand why or why not

hard to safely trim and hard to keep a dental patient healthy with or without the bad teeth

odontoma surgery scares me and with an older sq...:shakehead
make the right decision while they are young..

incisors are tools...the molars are the chewing machines
diced veggies are still healthy! ...

[Mrs Skul]

tinfoil Has anyone heard from WolfDancer024
I had the phone number cant find it. I am heading to where they live tomorrow. I just wonted to let them know I would be in town for a few days.
Also see if they still needed a Vet in the area they are in. If some has a Email or phone number.
I would love to have it, Or have them call me!
Thank allot :thumbsup3
Christal

[Jackie in Tampa]

I need an update on Chuck this AM if possible....:grouphug


You two amazed me...great pics...good job Mrs.Skul...:bowdown :bowdown
I hope Chucks teeth aren't too sensitive...he may not want to eat...tender mouth today...maybe a couple days....

Try some cold avacodo, apple sauce, yogurt, anything soft and cool. Fresh figs are on the market right now too, my sqs love them!
Not ice cold foods:shakehead

He may appear to be moving his mouth alot, just remember after we go to the dentist...our tongue explores our mouths too...and there may be some discomfort...he went thru alot and he may feel traumatized and sore.
{I hope we didn't hit a nerve in that lower tooth}

Tramadol is a safe human Rx medicine that would be ideal if you cannot find any metacam...please ask your friends and family, you never know.
If not and he is showing any signs of pain, some infant motrin will help.

I hate to ask, but when Chuck'man feels better, I would love some pretty pics...all I got was tongue and teeth shots!:tilt
Kiss him alot...tell him I love him too!:Love_Icon
remember to give him plenty of stuff to chew, fresh green 4 inch long finger sized branches of some oak, apple, crepe murtle, any safe tree...


:poke and both you girls get the good side cutters from the link below!!! and a non-point'y file!:thumbsup

:bowdown :Love_Icon :bowdown :Love_Icon :bowdown :Love_Icon :bowdown :Love_Icon:bowdown :Love_Icon :bowdown


German Steel Jeweler's side cutters....nothing else!!
www.livesaysinc.com (http://www.livesaysinc.com/) 1-800-476-2715 ask for Butch
sku#46.066.....$22.65 plus shipping and handling.
I have 'splained to him that this is what you need and why!
Livesay's does not normally sell to the public, this is a jewelers supply house....and it took special persuasion to get this special favor, be careful please!


Awesome ladies! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_126.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxmk7885RUS)











http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZNxmk7885RUS (http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb112_ZNxmk7885RUS&utm_id=7920)

[WolfDancer024]

Hello Jackie and TSB!

Thank you for all of your wonderful advice on Saturday. Major thank you and HUGE HUGS to Mrs. Skul for going above and beyond & well out of her way to help us. Chuck and I owe you so much for what you did! :thumbsup

Chuck is a NR that will be one year old in about 2 weeks. His upper teeth did not come in until he was about 5-6 months old (likely due to the face first fall he had from the nest at 2 weeks old), and the uppers were not aligned with the lower incisors when they did come in (Malocclusion). Try as I might, I could not get a good trim on Chuck’s teeth, I was using the wrong tools all along and was not sure of what I was doing (PLEASE: Jackie in Tampa knows her stuff, use the tools that she suggests and nothing else)! I am lucky I did not cause damage to Chuck when I did try trimming in the past. Unless the advice comes from TSB, I wouldn’t attempt a teeth trim using anyone else’s methods!!!

I had become desperate over the last few months as I live in an area that is not squirrel friendly and had no vet option to do the trimming. This is where Chuck’s angel comes in and saves the day :bowdown . Mrs. Skul was in the area for an appointment and went well out of her way to meet me and help trim Chuck’s teeth. It was a long and nerve wracking ordeal, but better to go slow and do it right than to rush through and cause more damage, right!? We did the squirrel burrito method and used the tools suggested by Jackie, or the equivalent to those tools (purchasing the REAL deal tonight) Thank goodness for Mrs. Skul and Jackie, had these two not stepped up and helped me the way they had, I don’t know what I would have done. I was preparing to drive 15+ hours to find a vet willing to do what MrsSkul did (and still am if the teeth need to come out). I will be posting before and after photos of Chuck’s teeth tonight once I get home from work and can figure out how to resize them. The teeth were pretty bad, but the photos show you that trimming can be done, even if they do get that long. Chuck was happily gnawing on branches last night, although not with as much vigor due to his mouth still being sore from the procedure.

I now know what I need to do and that when Chuck makes the noise he does when held down…this is his way of chewing me out and not telling me he hurts (my biggest issue when trying to trim before Mrs. Skul and Jackie stepped in was the loud chatter Chuck made – I had never been cussed out by a squirrel like we were on Saturday, Chuck gave us a mouthful)!

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR EVERYTHING!!!

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[island rehabber]

Amazing, beautiful teamwork here....Mrs Skul you are my hero of the week:bowdown.....WolfDancer, what a great squammy:bowdown....JIT our Countess of Clipping....:bowdown Can't believe how great you all are. :grouphug

[Skul]

:rotfl I got to see some pictures of the little love-muffin, already.
C mentioned, Chuck was a bit vocal about the whole proceedure. :rofl4