Lime green diarrhea?!

[kissle13]

Hi all!! .... I need some help, we have had our lil' girl for about a week now (she is around 5wks), and yesterday morning she started having lime green diarrhea. Ive been giving her doses of pedialyte every few hours and I am still giving her formula too(Esbilac -but i left out the cream today just in case that was bothering her). She does not seem dehydrated (tent test good), her skin is pink and she moving around and seems well otherwise.
I was hoping by now her stool was have hardened up a bit, but it is still a mucus consistancy. Anyone have any idea what I should do next?
Thank you !

[SammysMom]

I think that the Esibilac has caused this problem (not the color but the diarrhea) before. Have you tried ordering Fox Valley? A little Kaopectate is okay I think.

[kissle13]

no i have not tried Fox Valley. Ill look into it, will it be ok to keep her on the Esbilac till i can get the other? I dont want to starve my lil' girl.

[SammysMom]

Is this a gray squirrel? I would use the goats milk formula until you can get FV.

[kissle13]

She is a grey squirrel, i just placed an order with Fox Valley for the 20/50 formula.

[I Love Lucy]

Green diarrhea is usually an indication of giardia which is treated with metronidazole (flagyl) or Panacur. If Giardia is present there is also an extreme odor of the diarrhea.

[SammysMom]

Yeah ILL!!! I knew someone with experience would arrive! :thumbsup

[BeeFernandez22]

Yes, as ILL said, giardia has a very distinct and pungent odor. Like a "death" smell almost, not just a "poop" smell. Just make sure she gets plenty of fluids while she has the diarrhea so she does not become dehydrated. Pedialyte is not recommended for more than 24 hours so you can add some extra water to the Esbilac (or the Goats milk recipe, which is MUCH better). Also, do not add pedialyte to the formula. Keep us updated on the little one :)

[kissle13]

I just fed & stimulated her to poop/pee. Her poop (attached pict) does not smell at all, if anything it smells like formula. Her pee is clear too. I have the Fox Valley on order and ive been giving her Pedialyte every few hrs. Do you think i should back down on the cc's of formula or should i still give her the same amount (5cc's).
Thank you all for your insight.
Her being sick is just stressing me out. We have had a crazy last couple of weeks and have already lost 2 due to injuries. Im trying to do everything i can to save this sweet girl, she has just stolen our hearts!
138762

138763

[kissle13]

wow . sorry for the insanely large picts.

[kissle13]

Where would I get the metronidazole (flagyl) or Panacur. Vet office or pet store? Also... what is the goats milk recipe? -i read elsewhere that it was not good to give goats milk, so much contradicting information out there! yikes

:thankyou

[djarenspace9]

Without a fecal exam it would be a guess....maybe it's the formula...maybe Giardia...
Keeping him hydrated and nourished is of the essence either way.
Do you have acces to vet care or a local rehabber, someone who can help you confirm asap?

If you do not, your best bet may be to treat with Flagyl just in case.
Switching formula may do the trick but if you are waiting on an FV order that may be a few days away.

Also remember any change you do to formula may also affect his bowels, so you need to do it gradually over several feedings.

Are you able to weigh him daily to keep track of gains and losses?

[I Love Lucy]

If there is no smell it may or may not be giardia. I put babies like this on Pediasure vanilla with fiber to help bind their stool. and it is very easy to digest on a distressed system. When you get the FV slowly wean her from one to the other. If the diarrhea gets worse or starts to smell you'll need to see a vet for a stool test and some meds. I would stop they pedialyte, just water down the pediasure depending on her hydration. When her stools normalize they will be a dark brown on Pediasure. I swear by this product for emaciated babies too.

[SammysMom]

Better?

[kissle13]

Actually a very good friend of mine is my vet. But unfortunately he does not know much/anything about squirrels. Ill ask him to test her stool regardless to see if it is bacterial.

I.L.L. - how should I introduce the pediasure? Should i take her completely off the Esbilac and replace with the pediasure? and how much should i give her.
Yesterdays weight was 110 grams.

SammysMom- thank you...i had to down size those to post... i dont know why/how they came out that way. lol ...thank you!

Thank you all so so much, I really appreciate it!
& Happy Mothers Day to you all!!! Squirrely kisses oxox

[pappy1264]

How often/amount are you feeding? Food that has 'sat' too long in the digestive tract can get greenish, although that is pretty green. You can tell she doesn't feel good in her eyes. What is her weight? I would back down to diluted formula, stop the pedialyte. Make up the goats milk, it is easier on their system but still gives them some calories. Have her poops been normal up until now? You need to know her weight in order to make sure she is getting the proper amount of food.

[SammysMom]

Happy Mother's Day to you too! Someone had to fix a whole lot of photos for me at first...lol I might dilute the pediasure, but I think the Esibilac should be stopped if it might be the actual problem. Again though, someone more experienced may certainly know better. The vet should probably check for all parasites too. Poor little one! :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Here's the goat's milk recipe...
Jackie (Jackie in Tampa) has graciously offered her temporary replacement formula recipe.
Jackie's Goat Milk Recipe
1 cup goats milk
1/3 cup heavy cream
1/3 cup dannon all natural vanilla yogurt

I agree this little one looks tired and like she's not feeling well. Thank you for taking her in and helping.:grouphug
I see that you are in western Mass. I have Fox Valley and I have goats milk. I will be out tomorrow until around 4:00, but Lee Mass is about an hour from me. I could give you some supplies or get her to my vet on Monday or Tuesday...(not sure which days she is in).
Do you have her on any type of heat (low). When you're not feeling well, that may help her feel a little more comfortable. Place either a rice buddy, 1 cup uncooked rice in a sock, tie it and place in the microwave for about a minute. Give her plenty of fleece to cuddle up with too. Or if you have a heating pad, place it under only half of her container on low, so that she can crawl off of it if she gets too warm.

[pappy1264]

Oops, sorry, missed that she is in Ma (though Lee is a ways from me). If I can help, let me know. I won't be around tomorrow (my mom was voted mom of the yearat the elks, so going to a breakfast thingy....) If you can't do the goats milk, I would suggest trying to get some ensure and dilute it down, try 50/50 with plain water. Easier to digest, but still calories. Her eyes really don't look good. Poor baby. Yes, heat definitely under half her enclosure, on low.

[I Love Lucy]

I was running out of the house before when I posted and I just realized how vague my post was.

To clarify myself. From the pictures it looks like giardia to me. The color and consistency look right. It doesn't have to have a strong odor. Panacur can be ordered online without a Rx but metronidazole needs to be obtained from a vet or with a Rx.

I have switched right away to Pediasure but always watered down. Take it slowly with her going to full strength. Watch her hydration closely. Stop the esbilac. Under normal cicumstances you should be feeding 5-7% of her weight at a minimum every 4 hours. You can increase the amount a little at a time as long as she tolerates the amount ok. Since she looks weak I would offer her small amounts more frequently.

[kissle13]

She just started to open her eyes this afternoon, thats why she looks so dazed. They are still not opened all the way yet. I took that pict. this evening.

Weight: 110 grams yesterday, 111 grams today.

Feeding: every 3-4 hrs. 5cc's of formula via dropper (which she tries to chug down)

Heat: Heating pad has been on low under her bedding since we brought her in.

Im starting to think its the formula, tho still maybe bacterial, since we had her, her stool has been a lil' mushy not solid. I will get the goats milk ingredients tomorrow am.
Im going to go see if i can find some pedisure now if the store has it and still open.

Nancy: thanks for the recipe, i live in West Springfield, MA. Lee is about 45/60 min from me also.

Pappy: congrats to your Mom, that is awesome!

How do i wean her off the formula??? Should i just put a dead stop to the Esbilac and start right up on the Pedisure?

Goodness i love you all for the support!!!

[I Love Lucy]

I would stop the esbilac immediately and start pediasure until you get the FV. When you get the FV then slowly wean her from Pediasure to FV.

If you don't see an improvement within 24 hours it is more likely a bacterial infection than formula.

[BeeFernandez22]

I had my babies on Esbilac at first and they never had solid poops until I switched them off of it. Many members have had problems with it since they changed the way it was made. Don't just stop it cold turkey.. Do it in 4 steps (or atleast that's what I told when I transitioned mine). So 75% Esbilac 25% new formula for first feeding, 50% each for second feeding, 25% esbilac and 75% new formula for third feeding, then full strength new formula from there on out). You will need this again when you switch to FV. My babies poops did a complete 180 once on the FV. It's fantastic stuff. (Plus it smells really yummy and is much cheaper than Esbilac). I bought a 26 dollar can of Esbilac that only got used for about 3 days before many board members told me to go to the FV. Just wasn't worth the risk for me when I heard the problems it was causing. And believe me.. I know how you feel being stressed. My little girl has had a few health scares along the way and I literally was up once every hour throughout the night while she was sick because I was soooo worried. Sending many prayers your way. Give her kisses for me!

[BeeFernandez22]

Sorry ILL! Wasn't trying to contradict you, we must have been posting at the same time!!

[I Love Lucy]

Sorry ILL! Wasn't trying to contradict you, we must have been posting at the same time!!


No problem.

Weaning from one formula to another is recommended in normal circumstance, but when it comes to Pediasure you can put them on it right away. It is easy on the digestive system.

[pappy1264]

Yes, you can put them on it, but I would water that down, to help flush her out while she is still getting some calories and over several meals, you can get her up to full stregnth. If her poops have been mushy all along (assuming you did a slow intro to the formula, gradually building up the stregnth) it may be a formula issue. Just been tghrough a crazy time with digestion issues (like nothing I have ever experienced before), so know how frustrating they can be. The pediasure (or ensure) is a good way to go, give her belly a chance to not have to work so hard, while still getting calories.

And ty about my mom! (Btw, if you are in Springfield, you are still a ways from me, I am north of Boston.)

[kissle13]

I just got home from cvs and they had the pedisure.......Oh my good god! Squirrley loves the Pedisure! lol ...i wish i got that on video....she always went nuts for the formula... but my goodness she just ran circles around my hand, i could hardly hold her still to feed her!!!
Im keeping my fingers crossed that this will do the trick!

I watered it down 60/40... ill do 50/50 for the next feeding.

THANK YOU FOR THE LATE NIGHT ADVISE!

I will keep ya'll posted!

oxoxo

[pappy1264]

Prayers going out....good luck. Gentle kisses and belly rubs from me to her.....feel better, little one.

[I Love Lucy]

I just got home from cvs and they had the pedisure.......Oh my good god! Squirrley loves the Pedisure! lol ...i wish i got that on video....she always went nuts for the formula... but my goodness she just ran circles around my hand, i could hardly hold her still to feed her!!!
Im keeping my fingers crossed that this will do the trick!

I watered it down 60/40... ill do 50/50 for the next feeding.

THANK YOU FOR THE LATE NIGHT ADVISE!

I will keep ya'll posted!

oxoxo

They really do love it. Sometimes I add a little to the regular formula when I have a new baby who is giving me a hard time eating. The extra flavor seems to entice them to eat.

[gs1]

:D :thumbsup so glad to hear this....keep eating baby!!!:thumbsup

[pappy1264]

How is this little one doing?

[kissle13]

Hi all!!
Well she is doing good on the pediasure, she is still having diarrhea tho. The color of the diarrhea has change to more of a creamy color (no more electric lime green). Suprisingly her weight has gone up to 114 grams from 111 last night, im shocked.
Im going to call my vet friend tomorrow and see if i can get her in for a stool test & hopefully some antibiotics.

Ill keep ya'll posted! :Love_Icon

[gs1]

i'm so glad ...weight gain is such good news....

i'm glad you have a vet and that she's willing to learn squirrel.... but ..just my opinion.... is it possible to wait on the antiobiotics.... this diarrhea might just be due to formula/esbilac and if it's improving ... i'd wait until she was on fox valley just to make sure.....

please be sure to keep her hydrated ...dehydration will make her not digest properly too.....

but this is really good news....:thumbsup

[SammysMom]

If the stool is creamy colored , is it possible that she is overeating? Sammy had that problem when much younger.

[pappy1264]

Yes, see how she does over the next 24 hours. You can always get flagyl, but give the pediasure time to work. It will take a bit to get all the gunk out of her tummy. How much and how often are you feeding the pediasure? It is more easily digested, but a good rule of thumb when dealing with tummy issues is smaller amounts closer together (though not too close). Give the food time to work through her system. If she is getting too much food, it can still cause a different kind of diarrhea, (reminds me of frosting. That is from overfeeding. Just went through that with Bean.) So amount and time between feedings is very important. Sorry if I missed it, did you say how much she weighs? Glad to hear she is moving in the right direction. How is her energy?

[kissle13]

She is still having the creamy diarrhea and I think her bum is a little irritated. What, if anything, can i put on her to sooth her sore bum? Ive been using baby wipes to clean and giving her warm water washes which she tolerates. But she is still leaking on herself and i dont want her to get a rash or skin infection.

Im feeding her every 3 - 3.5hrs (except for overnight which is about a 6-7hr span) and giving her 5cc's still of Pediasure watered down 40%.

Should i mix with less water now? or go further inbetween feedings?

Her weight today was 114 grams up from 111 yesterday.

Her energy level is somewhat low, still sleeps most of the time. She just started to open her eyes last night and are both somewhat fully open today tho sleepy looking still. She was up walking and exploring around on the floor for a bit today and has also been more active in her cage & climbing.

Do you think im feeding too much?

[I Love Lucy]

Are you using regular pediasure or the one with fiber? The one with fiber should have helped bind her stool by now. I would decrease the water to 20% and 80% pediasure. Is her diarrhea still colored green? Pediasure makes their stool brown. The amount and time you are feeding her sounds good to me but some babies don't follow the rules. You could try try spacing it out longer or giving her a little less. Pale colored stool does sometimes indicate overfeeding but she could also have intestinal parasites.

[Jackie in Tampa]

please put this sq on FV asap...
until then I would use the goatsmilk recipe NIN offered.
I would try to have a fecal done today...
the longer you wait, the more take over is happeneing in your sq...and the residual will be sudden and can be deadly if your sweetie has internal parasites...
better to be safe.:grouphug

Even in a legal state..seldom does my vet recommend fecals...but the board seems to advise this.
When diarreha presents itself, we JUST treat sq for coccidia with Sulfa based drugs..
if after 4 days we do not see improvement, we start flagyl/metronidazole.
This will kick butt for any fungals and heavy duty parasites such as giardia..which smells like death.
Poops always change with our protocols..when we make changes, it is seen in the poops.
as other have mentioned..over feeding will give soft stool, parasites will always be noted thru poops...
POOPS are usually the best indicators of general health in mammels.

push hydration, yet do not ever give ONLY rehydration fluids for more than 24 hours...sodium will counter act all attempts to bringing your sq back to normal hydration.
good luck, let me know if I can help more.

[kissle13]

Good Morning!
I am using the Pedisure with fiber. Her stool this am was a little thicker like mustard and was is a darker cream/yellow color.
This morning I mixed a new batch of Pediasure with water 80/20, & I last fed her before I left for work (5 cc's). Im hoping her stool will bind/darken up better for me this afternoon. Maybe ill keep it at 5cc and feed at 5-6hr. (she was fine with waiting 6hrs overnight)

Ill let you know how she is after i get home from work & ill post a pict of her stool so you can see too.

I also have a call into the vet.

Thank you :Love_Icon

[I Love Lucy]

A pic of her stool would be helpful. If her stool is not improving and is not close to normal consistency and color by tonight or tomorrow, I would treat her for intestinal parasites. I would put her on SMZ/TMP (AKA Bactrim or Sulfatrim) regardless of fecal flotation test results. Since her stool is not green anymore it is probably not giardia but could be coccidia. These parasites are shed intermittently so negative test results are common. The only true way to diagnose is to take samples of a number of bowel movements and have a fecal analysis done, which is not as affordable as a flotation test. Sulfa antibiotics are easy on the digestive system so it is a safe way to treat her.

I would keep up the 80/20 Pediaure mix until you see normal stools, then I would go to full strength. When you do get the FV I would wean her onto it slowly over several days. I have used Pediasure and dilutions of it successfully for 7 days. It is easier for compromised systems to digest.

[Jackie in Tampa]

peace dudes...pediasure is loaded with sugar
sugar causes diarehaa..tinfoil
goats milk is very easy to digest,,,nothing easier..
do whatever..I am just saying..

[kissle13]

A member in the next town over offered me some FV till mine comes in. :thankyou Hopefully I can get that from her/him tonight or tomorrow (waiting for a reply/call) and I can start my lil lady on that ASAP.

Thank you all for your parenting advise. I really appreciate it. :grouphug

till tonight... :Love_Icon

[BeeFernandez22]

Have you ordered your FV yet? It should be to you fairly soon now if you have. (I thought I remembered you saying you did). I had very good luck with the Goat's Milk recipe, and as JIT said, no problems with the abundance of sugar. If the stools are still not normal, the sugar could be contributing to the problem even more. Plus, a lot of sugar (especially for a prolonged period) is not healthy for them.

[BeeFernandez22]

A member in the next town over offered me some FV till mine comes in. :thankyou Hopefully I can get that from her/him tonight or tomorrow (waiting for a reply/call) and I can start my lil lady on that ASAP.

Thank you all for your parenting advise. I really appreciate it. :grouphug

till tonight... :Love_Icon

Fantastic! Make sure to transition slowly to avoid any further tummy issues. Keep us updated!

[psychobird]

I think ensure (never tried the pediasure) can make them have diareha
And should usually only be used no longer than 2 days in desperate times when the usual things don't work to stop the diareha
It doesn't have nearly enough of what they need
If I was u I would start mixing in gm a 1/4 at a time for a couple of feedings
If the fv doesn't come in by the time she is on full strength gm I would start adding small amounts of yogurt for a couple if feedings till it's at the proper amount as per jackie's recipe the slowly add the heavy cream
As long as poops keep improving
When the fv arrives u will need to again slowly transition her over to fv
Btw, u can get flagyl at many pet stores it's called fish zole
Same thing as a 250mg tab of flagyl
It's a common practice to treat with flagyl when babies have diareha and digestion issues that don't resolve easily

[psychobird]

Oh my sorry for all the typos, stupid phone
Hopefully u get the gist of it

[I Love Lucy]

I can tell you from extensive experience Pediasure works excellent and has never caused an issue with a baby of mine. I have used it on dozens of squirrels over the last several years. I have used it successfully on the most severely emaciated babies who have lost 30% or more of their body weight. I have used it alone or dilutions of it for up to 7 days. Because it is Lactose free it is easier to metabolize than the proteins in other milks or formulas. Vital HN is another product used and highly recommended for severely emaciated cases. It also contains sugar but is extremely successful.

I have never tried goat's milk but will one day. Personally I don't think the products are in the same category because they are used under different circumstances. I understand the goat's milk can be used as a temporary formula but Pedasure is used for either severe emaciation or an otherwise compromised digestive system.

[kissle13]

Ok so here is a just wiped sample. I did get the goats milk and mix it to transition from the pedisure.
The F.V. is on its way and will be here wed/thursday.

Thank you !!
* again...sorry for the size of the pict. lol
139049

[Jackie in Tampa]

dang, i would get some sulfatrim asap...same as SMZ-TMP, bactrim...
I do not recommend albon, which is also sulfa based...
'round here it doesn't work..
bleach, decontaminate everything...some types of cocchidia are zoonotic...so clean really well, wash bedding daily and keep your hands clean..
this poor sq is going to start going down hill fast...is he still eating?
how active is he?
that's some yucky poop..he needs help now.
That is not a milk/formula issue..that's a bug...build his immune system up too, no stress, no barking dogs, no kids yelling , no loud music...keep things calm...

[pappy1264]

Jackie is right....green like that is nasty infection! Can you get a vet to help you? Poor baby. While giving meds, be sure to give some yogurt to help tummy. And I would def. use goats milk.

[I Love Lucy]

Yucky - she definitely has intestinal parasites. I had babies with stool like that last fall and I treated them successfully by using both Metronidazole and SMZ/TMP.

[Jackie in Tampa]

pappy, pyschobird..anyone up there...can you help here...maybe some meds please...isn't Critter mom up there...come on peeps...it's a sq in need.
who is up there that will help...
ABs are cheap...
start asking your friends what meds they have...
baytril works sometimes...
yes to the yogurt, but who cares if you can't get ABs...ok ...if you cannot find any help...we have to get this sq to a rehabber...this has been going on too long..
where are you? a town or a county...you need help NOW.
sorry to seem abrupt, but it will not get better without intervention..
would you like me to find you some help?

[psychobird]

She is really really far from us
I know a rehabber out near Worcester she may be able to help
Can't think of any out as far as u, although I'm sure there are some
They may want to take her and not give her back
It really would be best if she could be raised with other squirrels and live the free life in my opinion
Anyways
But then again everyone is so loaded down with babies they might just give u what u need
Call tufts in grafton in the am they should know someone out your way, they have a better list of rehabbers than the mass wildlife website, which u can try also
I'll pm u some numbers
Again you Can get flagyl at pet or aquarium stores its called fish zole
If u get it I can give u dosing instructions

[psychobird]

Oh and no offense on the pediasure like I said I have never used it
I was speaking of ensure and what I know about that only, I have no idea how simlar they are or not

[Rhapsody]

Green diarrhea is usually an indication of giardia which is treated with metronidazole (flagyl) or Panacur.
Is this this the PANACUR you mentioned above?
http://www.petcarechoice.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.display/pn/Panacur.C/product_id/9559

[Wonkawillie]

Kissle,
Darn, i wish I had read some of these posts before you came out last night. I have some SMZ in the barn for the horses. We could have broken it down in a suspension for this baby.
I wonder how she is this AM??? after the FV, goat formula mix????? lets us know OK?

[I Love Lucy]

Is this this the PANACUR you mentioned above?
http://www.petcarechoice.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.display/pn/Panacur.C/product_id/9559


Yes, that is it. :thumbsup I have used it many times for giardia.

You have to keep in mind that sometimes none of these meds are a quick fix. It takes days to see results. With coccidia the AB's actually don't get rid of it but keep it bay long enough for the animal to build an immunity to it. Many wild squirrels will test positive for coccidia but show no signs because they built an immunity against it. It so important to watch hydration because that is what will kill. That is one reason I use pediasure with fiber because it helps stops the watery diarrhea ASAP. I also use a product called Deliver with dialene that stops diarrhea in its tracks but you really need to know how to use it correctly and it is hard to find.

Psychobird - I take no offense at all. :peace I was just sharing my experiences which has definitely saved lives. I was also a tremendous skeptic of the Pediaure with fiber (because of sugar content) until a seasoned rehabber gave it to me and said " just try it because the diarrhea has to be stopped before you lose the baby to dehydration." It saved that babies life and many since then. PS - great tip about the fish zole.:thumbsup

When it comes to rehabbing the most important thing I have learned is to be open to other ideas and methods. Every baby and situation is different and treatment protocol needs to be flexible. We have to share our experiences and keep an open mind.

[I Love Lucy]

I forgot to mention that the oral meds don't work as effectively if the babies digestive system is pushing things through at lightning speed. There is no time for absorption. I have used injectable meds with cases where the diarrhea was extremely watery and profuse. Another great reason for the fiber is to slow things down for absorption. As far the sugar content goes, sugar is a simple carbo and is easy to digest. It gives the animal some quick fuel to help give energy to eat and help repair the body. I'm not sure goat's milk can do these things. But maybe. To me they are in a completely different category and are to be used in different circumstances.

[kissle13]

Morning all!
I went out and saw Wonkawillie :Love_Icon last night, she gave me some wonderful advise and some FV. Ive been feeding her the FV/Goats milk mix and she is eating like a champ! Her stool this morning was more formed (Not the goopy mess she left on your shirt last night). I dropped off that stool sample to my vet friend this am and he is going to run some tests and let me know later today. He didnt want to give me the Metronidazole till he knew for sure. I will let him know what ya'll have posted.
Her energy level was great this am and was climbing me like a tree. Im going to go and see her at lunch. I will keep you posted. :grouphug

[pappy1264]

That is great news! Will be watching for an update. We (Jodi and I) are quite a was from you, but Jodi posted some info this morning about calling to find rehabbers closer to you that might be able to help. Yup, that goats milk is a wonderful thing!!!!!

And I want to say to "I Love Lucy", if you read my post in nursery, Frank, Furter and Bean, you will see we (Jodi and myself) have been through the extreme kind of case you speak of. I believe Ensure, and Jodi sub-qing them, saved their lives. Nothing was working to stop the diarrhea and they just stopped swallowing, even fluids. They (esp. Bean) had angels watching over them (some special ones in particular...thank you, sis!)

[kissle13]

So if she tests positive for giardia.... do you use both Metronidazole and SMZ/TMP ?
What has your experiences been?

[I Love Lucy]

Morning all!
I went out and saw Wonkawillie :Love_Icon last night, she gave me some wonderful advise and some FV. Ive been feeding her the FV/Goats milk mix and she is eating like a champ! Her stool this morning was more formed (Not the goopy mess she left on your shirt last night). I dropped off that stool sample to my vet friend this am and he is going to run some tests and let me know later today. He didnt want to give me the Metronidazole till he knew for sure. I will let him know what ya'll have posted.
Her energy level was great this am and was climbing me like a tree. Im going to go and see her at lunch. I will keep you posted. :grouphug

Glad to hear she is improving. In the end whatever helps the babies is:thumbsup . Metronidazole or Panacur is used for giardia and SMZ/TMP is used for coccidia. They are often used together if diarrhea persists and there is a negative test result.

Pappy - It is not the ensure/pediasure that does the trick for the diarrhea it is the one with fiber in it. Or as I mentioned Deliver with Dialene has always stopped the diarrhea within hours. I have use it with 100% success in extreme cases where they are completely limp, barely swallowing and dehydrated.

[pappy1264]

Deliver with Dialene? Never hear of that....where do you get that?

[I Love Lucy]

I got it at Chris's Squirrel store a few years ago. When I used it I was like OMG I have to get more. It was out of stock everywhere for a long time but I got it in the fall from Chris. It works amazingly. If you get it I can help with the how to.

[psychobird]

We need to get some of that paps,
I have always looked at the pediasur and wondered if it would be better for them than the ensure, but I was was to scared to stray off the path
Great tip

[island rehabber]

I'll chime in: Deliver is awesome! Hard to find, that's all....:thumbsup

[kissle13]

So here's the POOP! lol ...this is what she gave me this afternoon when I fed her.
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[pappy1264]

Well, at least its the right color, or just about! lol Now, just need to get those lovely golden nuggets and life will be good! lol Better then lime green!!!!

[Rhapsody]

What do you think of a two month old squirrel that has poop that stays the consistency & color of the pic above no matter what you have tried? (meds, fv, pedialyte, yogurt, solid food)

[kissle13]

So that color is good for the formula she is on?! ... just needs to harden up a bit?
:)

[Rhapsody]

So that color is good for the formula she is on?! ... just needs to harden up a bit?
:)YES....... half way there. :thumbsup :thumbsup

[pappy1264]

I know you said 'meds' but did you have a fecal done? What solids are you feeding? Are you still syringe feeding or is he bowl feeding?

[Rhapsody]

I know you said 'meds' but did you have a fecal done? What solids are you feeding? Are you still syringe feeding or is he bowl feeding?No, no fecal has been done as the poop never turned any diff color or strange smell.
Squirrel is still being feed 10cc FV 3x a day from the syringe.
He eats HHB and Vegetables with limited walnuts.
His two brother(s) are fine, they have never had any issues since I got them at two weeks old.

I sterilize their feeding tools 2x a week and make the FV fresh every day.
The only thing I have not tried (started today) is to take the yogurt out of the FV in case he is lactose intolerant...... :dono

[Jackie in Tampa]

No, no fecal has been done as the poop never turned any diff color or strange smell.
Squirrel is still being feed 10cc FV 3x a day from the syringe.
He eats HHB and Vegetables with limited walnuts.
His two brother(s) are fine, they have never had any issues since I got them at two weeks old.

I sterilize their feeding tools 2x a week and make the FV fresh every day.
The only thing I have not tried (started today) is to take the yogurt out of the FV in case he is lactose intolerant...... :dono
if he's lactose intolerant...it won't matter...FV is milk...
try adding some FV boost and build up his immune system...are his brothers irritating him?
sorry to thread jack

[Rhapsody]

try adding some FV boost and build up his immune system...are his brothers irritating him?Ordering some FV Boost Tonight!! - Penis Irritation stopped a good three weeks back..... :thumbsup

[Rhapsody]

HEY JACKIE -------- :wave123
Are We talking about the FV Ultra Boost?

http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com/main/prod.asp

[kissle13]

Well our girly is doing great! She is a whole new squirrel!! She is giving me more solid poops each time i stimulate her and she even pee'd on her own after dinner, on my boyfriends leg..lol, but regardless we are very proud of her.
Im still waiting to hear from the vet to still see if there is any parasites present,but i really think the Esbilac had alot to do with it! She is doing SO much better on the goatsmilk/FV formula mix. :alright.gif

I cannot thank you all enough for the concern, support and guidance through these rough couple of days, you all are to thank for saving this lil' girls life! You all truly are angels! :grouphug

**EXTRA SPECIAL THANKS to "Williewonka" for letting us come to her home late last night, giving me some F.V. to tie me over till mine arrives, giving me a better feeding syringe and giving her lots of love. You are a saint!:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon


I will keep ya'll posted on her health and progress. (....oh and how down size these picts? ive already "resized" them..)
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[psychobird]

That is the best news ever! We are so weird gwtting excited about poop! Lol
Going to bed with a smile on my face first one I have had after a really bad day

[Wonkawillie]

Thanks for the kind words. I think we all have this same squirrel passion. So many folks here have given such good advice, that if I can "pay it forward", I sure will!!!!!! I am sooooooooo happy.
If you happen to run out of your formula before your FV gets here, you know where to find me. I bet she has really learned that soft nipple by now!!!
I went to bed with a smile.
Please keep us posted on your girl. She looks good.
PS, whole foods has powdered goats milk, so there is no waste. You can mix as you need it. I think I would keep her on that exact formula mix even when your FV arrives. I have fed this goat, FV mix for the whole time with my now 7 week old babies and they have thrived!!!! When it aint broke, dont try to fix it.
These babies are tough little fighters, but when they get sick they can be gone so quickly. We need to respond quickly. I am so glad you were willing to come out that night to get the supplies. I was going to ask you if you wanted me to take over her care, but I could see that you had the skills, the common sense and the heart to do this on your own. I did not want to steal such a rewarding experiance from you. Enjoy her and keep up the good work!!!!!
You know where to find me if you need help.

[kissle13]

I will definately go to Whole Foods and pick up that powder. That would be very helpful.
Have you ever made up the goats milk and froze it? will it hold up the same?

[pappy1264]

Yes, you can freeze the goats milk by itself, but make sure not to add the yogurt in, as you cannot freeze yogurt. Glad to hear she is getting better! Been down that road, its not one I want to be on again!!!!

[I Love Lucy]

I'm so glad your baby is doing so well with the right formula. :thumbsup I really thought it was giardia and I am sooooo happy :multi it is not. I didn't know the diarrhea caused by Esbilac could be green :dono, I'm glad I know now.

Wonkawillie - Great tip:thumbsup about the powdered goat's milk at Whole Foods. Around here so many people screw up their babies with Esbilac and we do have a Whole Foods. Now I can give people another option until they get FV or bring the babies to me.

[Wonkawillie]

With the powdered goat milk it is very easy to make up enough for the day. I can help you with some measurments if you like. I used to make up 1/4 cup of the half fv, half goat milk mix at a time. Now I use 1/2 cup per day with my little pigs. I mix it up at night, enough for the next day. I can send you a private message with the measurments if you like.

[kissle13]

Williewonka that would be great!

It may be too soon to be worried, but I wasnt able to make it home for lunch today, but i tried to feed her as soon as i got home @ 3 .... she wasnt interested?! She ate great this morning before i left for work... i felt bad and figured she would be starved.
I mixed up the formula last night so its not old.... ???
Im gonna try again at 5.

Thanks

[kissle13]

NEVERMIND!!!
She ate just fine at 5.... this girl is gonna keep me on my toes. lol

[pappy1264]

Can I ask a question? Are you gone all day with no feeding from first thing until the end of day? Are you making up feedings during the night? How many feedings a day is she getting? I did not realize you were gone all day, unless you are making up at night?

[kissle13]

Ive been feeding every 3-3.5 hrs. I feed her a 8 am and go off to work shortly after, i try to get home for lunch to feed again but sometimes it is impossible. I feed as soon as i get home at 4:30 if not sooner. Then i restart the feeding cycle. 8pm, 11pm, 2am, 5am, 8am. So yes she does miss 1-2 feedings during the day, luckly tho since we have had her my boyfriend has been home early from work and was able to giver her 2pm feedings. Today was one of 3 days that she went without. Thats why i was shocked she refused her feeding at 3pm. She did eat normal though at 5 & 8pm.

Just a short while ago (10:20pm) she had a little bit of diarrhea again,(she has been leavin be lil golden nuggets all day) creamy color like the formula. Wouldnt that suggest overfeeding?? Ive kept her at 5cc's which is low for her weight. She now weighs 123grams which means i should be up to 6cc's. Should i adjust her food amount????

[kissle13]

ok..this girl has my head spinning.....just tried to feed her her 11pm feeding, took 1cc and didnt want anymore. She is warm and formula is warm. Belly still looks "full". Stimulated her, peed a good amount and gave me soft golden poop. Even tho she just had a lil' bit of diarrhea.... im lost! :dono

Ill see what happens at 2am.....

[kissle13]

This shows both the diarrhea and the after soft poop...... ? Do i need a chill pill?!?
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[Wonkawillie]

Any results on that stool test? I think you had one done?
Even the firm poop looks a bit funny to me. I am used to seeing little well formed oval "nuggets"
Maybe she is getting too much food? When I saw her, she seemed small for her developmental age. Not small from malnurishment, just small. Like maybe she was a runt??? her eyes were wide open and she had teeth, but yet was petite.
I dont like to fill bellies that still look full. Too easy to cause bloat. If she looks full and refuses food, then I would not force her. Just see how she looks in an hour or two and see if she wants to eat if she looks like she has slimmed down.
Use caution with the full looking bellie. I went into panic mode when my babies began to thrive. I thought they had bloated bellies, but were just fat!:rotfl
Adding the heavy cream really helps fatten them up.
Does she seems strong to you when feeding. Like a little velcro baby stuck to your hand? Looking plump and well hydrated?
Can we see a pic of her today?
Have you altered the formula at all? Just thinking.....HMMMMMMm.

[Wonkawillie]

You are doing a great job with her. Keep us posted on the poop issue.
Any ideas rehabbers?

[Jackie in Tampa]

my thoughts...
I would not add heavy cream until poop questions are resolved...
the yogurt is ok, but the cream may be too rich.
Plain formula is probably what I would use if no ABs are being administered, at least til she was showing good digestion.

I still say SMZ_TMP would have been my advise...gentle yet thorough...
and if it's something other than a bacterial, it would not have hurt her.
My bet is a tummy bug:peace

I would stop all immodiums and fiberous stuff...you maybe disquising the real culprit...it's obvious that you are getting false readings...nothing stable poop wise.
Coccidia is very hard to pick up in a smear...that's why we just seldom bother...
I really really would use SMZ-TMP childrens suspension:peace
:poke it's on the walmart $4 list!:thumbsup
call vet and ask for a script..it works!

[pappy1264]

Even though she is older, try doing full body massage on her. From her neck back, roll your fingers down her body, to sort of push things downwards. Any results from the fecal yet? What exactly is she eating now (amount, time between feedings, etc)? Does she eat block yet?

[kissle13]

I did get the results back yesterday, he said she came up negative for Giardia & Coccidia. He said he also looked under the microscope and didnt see any other bacteria.

When i got home yesterday she left me lil' golden nuggets, but then it turned into long logs... (lol,describing poop makes me laugh... sorry....) and she gave me the same this morning too.

Her 2am feeding she only took 3cc's , 5am feeding she took 5cc's, 8am feeding she took 3.5 cc's.

Her belly looks well and round,not over full, she is more active every time we have her out of her cage, climbing, exploring, tail is starting to curl up, going poo/pee on her own. When she is feeding & interested she is in crazy squirrel mode, darting back n' forth,climbing my arm, velcro-ing to me while i refill the syringe.

I have not altered the formula except for her 8am feeding, i was down the last bit (about 1tsp or so) of the goat/FV mix so i added 1/2 tsp of goats milk...i probably would have been fine without adding it tho cuz she only ate a lil bit. The Fox Valley will be in today!!!! :wahoo ...and yes she does have block in her cage with her.. she has been munchin on it here n' there.

I do give her finger massages and she has a sweet spot under her ear on her jaw line that makes her roll over so i can give her belly rubs. She makes us giggle and coo!! We are so in love with her we can hardly stand it!! :Love_Icon

I took a bunch of picts yesterday and had wanted to post up more for you today, but I was running out of the house this morning and forgot my camera.. i will post them later this afternoon when i get home from work.

[psychobird]

Okay, one thought I would like to throw out there is mbe it's a overfeeding issue
For her age I think she should be fed no more than every 4hrs or so
4-5 feedings a day
Working up to every 5hrs, 3-4 times a day in a week or so
Does she have rodent block available to her a all times?

[psychobird]

Oops, I guess she has block!! Lol

[Jackie in Tampa]

awesome news, yippie
so glad she is feeling better!:Love_Icon
:bowdown

[kissle13]

New Picts!
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[djarenspace9]

Adorable!
Though it would be more poop pics...this is MUCH better! :thumbsup

[SammysMom]

Look a those big ol' feet! Gotta love those big tootsies on a little one! :grouphug :thumbsup :grouphug

[psychobird]

Lookin at that tail I would prob feed her bout every 4.5 hrs
Or 4 times a day goin up to 5 or 3xday in a few days then hold there for a couple of weeks
Make sure she gets a water bottle and start giving her halved blueberries and bits of peeled apple to help her stay hydrated
In a week or so you can try bowl feeding if you want
I usually mix oatmeal baby cereal in the formula in a small custard dish
Might be a bit messy for a while but they catch on pretty fast

[kissle13]

**VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED*** MORE POOP PICTS***
Her 5pm feeding she only ate 3.5cc's. Waited till 9:30 for the next feeding she took 5 cc's. ..... Here is the best part, i stimulated her after.... and holy crap! this squirrel is full of S#it!!! We couldnt believe our eyes......
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...and yes she poops at every feeding.

[Rhapsody]

Ive kept her at 5cc's which is low for her weight. She now weighs 123grams which means i should be up to 6cc's. Should i adjust her food amount???? Some times we have to go with the flow of the squirrels and forger about the weight thing verses how much to feed them..... to me squirrels are like babies and even though we are told to feed a baby 4 oz of formula every 4 hours it does not mean the baby is going to always eat that amount every time or every day.

I have a squirrel that is name Tony and he is 2 months old now and when he was around 5 weeks old he wouldn't eat more than 5 or 3 cc at a time when his weight plainly stated he should be eating 6 cc at every feeding..... and when I had him eat the full 6cc it gave him bloat and just made me worry about his health - so from that moment on I learned to go with the FLOW.

BTW - HE is eating fine now and is the same weight and size as his brother(s). :thumbsup

[Wonkawillie]

I agree. Go with the flow. Feed when she looks empty and when she is hungry. We have the time frame and quantities as a guide. So we have some idea of how to feed. She looks great!!!!!!
She should be interested in eating some real food. Like someone else mentioned. I know you have the rat block I gave you, but you can start giving her pealed grapes, chopped veggies, strawberries, blueberries. My babies always loved the greens from dandilions outside too.
Enjoy her

[island rehabber]

kissle, I am going to stick my neck out here and say that those poops look ENOUGH like coccidia to warrant the baby being treated for it. I think 7 days on SMZ-TMP (Sulfatrim)_ should clear it right out, and bring this little sweetie back to normal poops again. :thumbsup

[pappy1264]

I agree w/IR. She is adorable!

[SammysMom]

I only have kitten experience, but that sure looks like coccidia to me too.

[pappy1264]

And that really is not a lot of poop.....you should be around here at feeding time! lol

[kissle13]

Ive been spacing her out to 5hr feeding times and she is doing great! Ive been giving her 5.5cc's ...should i bump her up to 6 ?? Ive also put in some peeled apple... which she loved!! Ill grab some other berries/veggis when im out today to introduce to her. She also still has the rodent block in her cage to which she is munchin on.
Im supposed to pick up the SMZ/TMP today too.

THANK YOU !!! :grouphug

[pappy1264]

What is her current weight?

[kissle13]

Weighed in this morning at a heafty 136 grams!

[kissle13]

Hi all!
Just wanted to give you an update, lil' squirrley has been on anitibiotics since friday and she is doing wonderful!!! Poops are hard golden nuggets!!!

Thank you all !! :grouphug

[SammysMom]

Yippee for "hard golden poops"!!! :thumbsup

[pappy1264]

Woohoo! Love dem' golden nuggets!!! lol

[island rehabber]

:alright.gif golden nuggets!! :wahoo

So glad the ABX worked....thanks, Jackie in Tampa, for convincing me this WAS coccidia. I was on the fence, but JIT pushed me over. :D :bowdown

[kissle13]

I dont know that it was coccida, the vet sent her fecal out for testing and it came back negative and he even looked for coccida under the microscope and he did not see anything. But regardless the dewormer he gave me is working great.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I dont know that it was coccida, the vet sent her fecal out for testing and it came back negative and he even looked for coccida under the microscope and he did not see anything. But regardless the dewormer he gave me is working great.
again, Seldom is cocchidia seen under the scope...many vets and biologists have said this over the years...
Great that you have wonderful golden poops!
where else do you get a dancing poop? Only TSB!!!:thumbsup :poop :poop :poop :poop :poop :poop :poop :poop :poop

[psychobird]

How's the baby?