Squirrels for sale online?

[Lulu2010]

Maybe someone has already discussed this, I just browse here and there. I was actually doing research on a ground squirrel for someone when I came across a bunch of listings for squirrels for sale. Not just ground squirrels and flyers, but grey squirrels for sale. One ad is from somewhere in FL. Does everyone already know about this? I am shocked! :dono :shakehead :thinking
Check this out:
http://www.hoobly.com/0/2446/0/

[Lulu2010]

Sorry, I did the main page so you could just scroll. There are baby greys in FL.
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/1686484.html

[Gina]

I thought it was illegal to sell ground squirrels? I see one in Florida and will inquire just to see what they say.

[Gina]

I just sent email to the Florida ad to see if they are still available.

[Lulu2010]

Ok. Found an ad that they sell wild caught baby raccoons, squirrels, etc for $300. They claim it's legal bc they have papers (guessing permit from state). I contacted Minnesota police/DNR (talked to a lot of people). They said legal to sell wilds in the state with a permit to other people in the state with permits, but illegal to sell out of state or in the state to people without permits. He wants me to call him back with information so they can investigate. What do I do? If I report will babies be euthanized or will she just be stopped? Is there a member who could step in to take babies if needed? Sorry I want to consult with TSB before jumping the gun. Please let me know. Wild animals should not be readily available as pets. They probably don't even educate people about them and sell them to people who think it's "cool". :shakehead

[momma2boo]

Ok. Found an ad that they sell wild caught baby raccoons, squirrels, etc for $300. They claim it's legal bc they have papers (guessing permit from state). I contacted Minnesota police/DNR (talked to a lot of people). They said legal to sell wilds in the state with a permit to other people in the state with permits, but illegal to sell out of state or in the state to people without permits. He wants me to call him back with information so they can investigate. What do I do? If I report will babies be euthanized or will she just be stopped? Is there a member who could step in to take babies if needed? Sorry I want to consult with TSB before jumping the gun. Please let me know. Wild animals should not be readily available as pets. They probably don't even educate people about them and sell them to people who think it's "cool". :shakehead

I would take the babies and eventually they would go to a rehabber for a soft release. I have two that I can bring them to for release.

[momma2boo]

I contacted them earlier and told them that it was illegal to sell wildlife and they emailed me in return.

This is what they said. Take notice who they apparently are. Is there anything we can do to stop them?

From: Patience Conway <allanimalflrescue@gmail.com>
To: "juliemrocco@att.net" <juliemrocco@att.net>
Sent: Sat, April 23, 2011 7:54:43 PM
Subject: Re: New Inquiry From juliemrocco

Illegal if you have license, inspected by USDA and if you are a rehabber.
Which we are. Thanks for wing nosey.

Thanks, Patience
------------------------------
All Animals Rescue
Polk City, Fl
863.874.4347

[Lulu2010]

I would take the babies and eventually they would go to a rehabber for a soft release. I have two that I can bring them to for release.
There has to be a loophole to shut this down. I might call the manager lady at PETA that has helped me a couple times.
The one I'm working on at the moment is in Minnesota. Sounds like the one near you is just as bad. We need more info on state laws and set these people up to do it illegal but have people ready to jump in to prevent babies from being euthanized.

[momma2boo]

I got a phone number for a 24 hour hotline for the Fla Wildlife Alert for wildlife law violations.

888-404-3922

I am just afraid of what they would do if they did confiscate the babies. Will they bring them to a rehabber or will they euthanize?

[Lulu2010]

I got a phone number for a 24 hour hotline for the Fla Wildlife Alert for wildlife law violations.

888-404-3922

I am just afraid of what they would do if they did confiscate the babies. Will they bring them to a rehabber or will they euthanize?

I think we should inquire first with "what if's". What if we knew someone doing this? What if we had rehabbers lined up to rehab the wildlife type thing. Are they open on weekends or not til Monday? I can call and inquire. If they don't have the info of the place we are concerned about, they can't do anything.

[Best Life]

just looked around and found this. :shakehead

http://animalswithpatience.webs.com

[momma2boo]

just looked around and found this. :shakehead

http://animalswithpatience.webs.com

This sickens me. How can they call themselves a rescue? How can they get away with this?

USDA for Class I wildlife ... does not include squirrels. Squirrels are considered game mammals and therefore property of the state. Game Preserves or Farms with proper license and permits may operate for the protection, preservation, propagation, rearing, and production of game birds and animals for private and commercial purposes.

Any person owning land in this state may establish, maintain, and operate within the boundaries thereof a private preserve or farm not exceding 640 acres.

Game reared or produced on private game preserves and farms shall be considered domestic game and private property and may be sold or disposed of as such and shall be the subject of larceny. Live game may be purchased, sold, shipped, and transported for propagation and restocking purposes only at any time.

Any person violating this section for the first offense commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082 or s.775.083, and for a second or subsequent offense commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082 or s.775.083. Any person convicted of violating this section shall forfeit to the commission any license for operating and no further license will be issued for a period of a year.

This all came from 2010 Florida Statutes under fish and wildlife conservation.

[Lulu2010]

Best Life- I couldn't see the website I guess bc I'm on my phone. I'll have to look when I get home.

M2b- that's ridiculous!!! We are gonna figure something out. We just have to use all contacts we have. I would love for more people to help foster and rehab. That's what we need to save more babies. Not people spending $300 to buy a "tame" pet squirrel for a pet. If this continues, I can only imagine how the world will be in generations to come.

[Best Life]

can we get these threads merged?

How does that get done (if you think they should be)

[Lulu2010]

can we get these threads merged?

How does that get done (if you think they should be)

I don't mind. It's the same topic. I'm sure we are all equally concerned about this going on anywhere, no matter the location. :)

[mugzeezma]

I don't mind. It's the same topic. I'm sure we are all equally concerned about this going on anywhere, no matter the location. :)

that would be nice...I'm getting whiplash!

[Rhapsody]

Yes, sadly Hoobly.com is used a lot to sell innocent little grey squirrels on and the best we can do at times is try and get the little ones for FREE if the seller is willing (like Karen & I did) or hope that a kind person with a good heart that recently lost their pet squirrel is the one looking for another wild pet squirrel....... :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

BUT NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lulu2010]

Yes, sadly Hoobly.com is used a lot to sell innocent little grey squirrels on and the best we can do at times is try and get the little ones for FREE if the seller is willing (like Karen & I did) or hope that a kind person with a good heart that recently lost their pet squirrel is the one looking for another wild pet squirrel....... :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

BUT NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is very sad. I had no idea this went on. I've seen that in FL they have people occasionally try to sell on craigslist, but I didn't know there was basically a site dedicated to the sale of wild animals....let along so called rehabbers doing the selling. What a shame. I am going to keep looking into it and see if some way we can put a stop to it. This just breaks my heart. :shakehead

[Lulu2010]

Here is the posting for the one in Minnesota I have been talking about. I know there are others. The two links I posted have both really disturbed me. http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/1604276.html

[Rhapsody]

Now in a case like the one mentioned above with the link that is not a rehabber that has taken on a wild animal in and raised it just to sell its young - that is a licensed breeder that is selling their adult pets off spring..... and their State has given them permission to do so.

Just like where I live, the State of Florida gives Licensed Sugar Glider Breeders the right to sell baby Gliders here in Florida...... and sadly I use to own breed and sell Sugar Glider, but some thing inside of Me hated the thought of them being locked in a cage and I didnt like not knowing what truly happened to them when they left me so I got out of the business.

What you want to look for on Hoobly or CL is a person selling a pair or a single squirrel baby that is six weeks or younger...... thats probably someone that took the baby or found them after a storm and are now trying to make a quick $$$ from their sad misfortune.

[Rescue04]

it is illegal to buy or sell squirrels in the state of florida. we have already called fish and game on that person several times. i wish they would just shut them down already. i worry about the babies in their care.....

[Best Life]

it is illegal to buy or sell squirrels in the state of florida. we have already called fish and game on that person several times. i wish they would just shut them down already. i worry about the babies in their care.....


Sad to hear that you have already reported them (several times) and they are still doing this. Can you offer some insight as to exactly who/what dept you called at fish and game and what happened from there? Or what should have happened, apparently. I know you guys are busy right now, but if you do have any suggestions on how to get the authorities to actually do something, many of us will jump right on it!

I didn't even know this was going on until recently... I would be HORRIFIED if I had taken a critter to a "rehabber" only to find that they were selling them! It gives all of us a bad rep when the name "All Animal Rescue" is used to disguise a cruel (and illegal) practice.

[bopster816]

This is just sickening. How dare they sell wildlife. What nerve.They have to know we are all here and detest this pitiful act. Whats even worse is that people would actually think its right or okay to purchase a wild animal.It makes me ashamed of humanity.:shakehead

[momma2boo]

A recent reponse from this POW (piece of work):

I don't really appreciate you thinking you know it all when obviously you are proving yourself more dumb than it is worth. You wanna call authorities on a damn squirrel but you have never been to our site and nor have even seen how we do things or how the animals are kept? Your a coward. And I hope you don't try and cause trouble because it's just going to be stupid crap that will happen then will go away. So but out of our rescue and leave us alone unless you plan on helping us. And so far you hvent and you think for some reason I'm lying to you or some crap when I'm telling you the truth. Infact if you want to get onto people get onto the people who breed them. We don't.
You want me to pull the ad then fine but that's still not going to stop me from giving her a good home as she is very tame, a runt and she has not even made a natural squeak like they should to be considered wild. That's why I'm adopting her out. I've had her around other squirrels try to attack her.
But I bet you a person of no compassion thinks survival of the fittest and she should probably die too?
I've had numerous people ask if they could eat her when I put her for free. And numerous ones saying they had a male (still intact) and I know what will happen there.


You still wanna report me I take it?


Thanks, Patience
------------------------------
All Animals Rescue
Polk City, Fl
863.874.4347

[Lulu2010]

Wow. Sounds like she has a heart somewhere in there....but no conscience. :shakehead She should go through sources for other rehabbers or foster parents if this one is truly non-releasable. I get it if it is NR and they don't have space to keep them all, but really? Selling squirrels. It's not any better to sell a NR squirrel. She still gets a thumbs down from me. Sounds like she is a little scared since she mentioned she would remove the ad. Can anyone get her to just hand the squirrel over to them? M2B, do you think she would let you have it? or even make arrangements for a "neutral" party to take it? You should ask.

[momma2boo]

Wow. Sounds like she has a heart somewhere in there....but no conscience. :shakehead She should go through sources for other rehabbers or foster parents if this one is truly non-releasable. I get it if it is NR and they don't have space to keep them all, but really? Selling squirrels. It's not any better to sell a NR squirrel. She still gets a thumbs down from me. Sounds like she is a little scared since she mentioned she would remove the ad. Can anyone get her to just hand the squirrel over to them? M2B, do you think she would let you have it? or even make arrangements for a "neutral" party to take it? You should ask.

I emailed her telling her that if she wanted to give her to me and she ended up truly being a NR that I would allow her to live a cushy life here with me and my other NR. I mentioned that I would be getting another NR in a few months.

Hopefully she will come around. Prayers please.

[mugzeezma]

Anyone willing to spend $100-150 on a squirrel would probably take it seriously.

If this baby is truly NR (how could it perch on a stick like that???:dono ) what about the other three she had...thinking while typing here. She has a 'possum too....no this is definitely a DUCK!!!

Only upshot is the money probably pays for the care of other animals....It's still horrilby HORRIBLY unethical

here's another add:

Browsing: Everywhere : Squirrels

BABY GRAY SQUIRREL (4 WEEKS OLD)
Lakeland, Florida
Pets & Animals: Squirrels
Ad 1611227 placed 3 months ago by hlngmlc826 (member since Jan 13, 2011)
report ad
Please Sign In or Register to contact member
Hi,I have a male gray squirrel about 4 weeks old, his eyes are just about to open anytime. The little guy fell out of a tree. I think we are squirrel magnets because we just gave away 2 flying squirrels a few weeks ago that we bottle fed and now we have a gray squirrel FREE to good home experienced in squirrel raising. We have been feeding him Esbilac & ASEA. Thanks, Jan (863) 877-9161

[momma2boo]

Oh for the love of God. This could be a full time job keeping up with these people.

I may have shot us in the foot but I told this chick (Patience) that she could always come here to find her NRs homes since there were educated squirrel owners and wildlife rehabbers who would be more than happy to help give them homes.

I figure if they end up being releasable she doesn't need to know. I truly think she is selling these babies and they are NOT NRs.

[mugzeezma]

Oh for the love of God. This could be a full time job keeping up with these people.

I may have shot us in the foot but I told this chick (Patience) that she could always come here to find her NRs homes since there were educated squirrel owners and wildlife rehabbers who would be more than happy to help give them homes.

I figure if they end up being releasable she doesn't need to know. I truly think she is selling these babies and they are NOT NRs.

I think you need get some acreage, a doublewide, and some goats.

[Lulu2010]

I think the most important thing is to save the squirrels and other wilds that are in these kinds of situations. It's not fair to them at all to not have any kind of choice in what happens with them. Maybe it would be good for her to join TSB and hopefully come across the threads about her and others like her so she really understands why we all feel this is wrong. Maybe then she will have a change of heart for what she is doing to these innocent babies. It's a victory to save one squirrel, but a miracle if we can stop one person. M2B, you deserve a pat on the back for your efforts. Thank you for getting so involved.

[momma2boo]

I think you need get some acreage, a doublewide, and some goats.


"Baaaaaaaaaaaah ..... Baaaaaaaaaah"

[mugzeezma]

"Baaaaaaaaaaaah ..... Baaaaaaaaaah"

SEEEEE! You already speak the LANGUAGE!!!

[momma2boo]

SEEEEE! You already speak the LANGUAGE!!!

:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :thankyou I've been using Rosetta Stone.

[mugzeezma]

:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :thankyou I've been using Rosetta Stone.

Caprine??? cool! when will they come out with Scuirid I wonder...hey we're thread jacking!
ooops
sorry

[momma2boo]

:threadjack <------- sorry about that.
Back to our regularly schedule program.

[mugzeezma]

I think the most important thing is to save the squirrels and other wilds that are in these kinds of situations. It's not fair to them at all to not have any kind of choice in what happens with them. Maybe it would be good for her to join TSB and hopefully come across the threads about her and others like her so she really understands why we all feel this is wrong. Maybe then she will have a change of heart for what she is doing to these innocent babies. It's a victory to save one squirrel, but a miracle if we can stop one person. M2B, you deserve a pat on the back for your efforts. Thank you for getting so involved.

The fact that Florida is a "squirrel friendly state" also makes it a place where there can be abuse can take place. While the laws make it difficult for people to do the right thing (getting veterinary care for example) the laws also protect the wilds from such abuse.
You'll notice that the majority of these ads for tree squirrels are in FL.

[momma2boo]

Most recent email from her (mine is below hers. Hers what a response to mine):

Re: New Inquiry From juliemrocco
From: Patience Conway <allanimalflrescue@gmail.com>View Contact
To: Julie Rocco <juliemrocco@att.net>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's a double stack not a single stack I think I already said that.
I understand your help with the squirrel but I can not stress the fact of how much other squirrels attack her and I'm not making it up or anything. The last thing I need is the fish and game coming out and checking all of our equipment and god if there's one thing wrong that is out of date or if we have a cage that is not adequate even if it's not in use it's a $250 fine. I will just let my friend hav the squirrel once she is completely ready to be going to a home, I will have my friend like I said, come get her and whatever she decides is right I will let her decide.


The possum is not big enough for the double stack yet she is only about two lbs & rides the other animals' back still and rubs up against you like a cat. The possum and the squirrel get along but not with other wild animals.
If this lady seems to think she needs to be released (doubtful) I will have her release probably somewhere population is low and I will have to do some research on a personal level on where there are not many squirrels. Or if she has to keep her I will help her out with it. I don't have time for a squirrel who is needy like her. Never have I met a squirrel like this one.normally they play with toys, and jump around, bur she doesn't. She is not sick though and we had her checked out, her bacteria levels in her stomach are fine, no worms, no sickness, nothing. I do not know if maybe she fell out of a tree as a baby or what exactly had happened and maybe she has some brain damage, that maybe isn't critical but maybe psychologically it freaked her out.
Not sure.
I will read up about that. I understand you don't think it's right to make one cent off of a rehabber animal but if you only knew the amount of money for feed bill every week you would know that this money doesn't cover even half of it.
But if you think it will be a problem id rather be in debt than be in jail for something I'm still sure I'm allowed to do, but u assure me im not and it's easier to just give her back and hope for the best than deal with drama.
No the possum ad like I said I took down as I've crown very attached to her and have spent a lot in vet bills for her as she had a few broken toes and an ingrown toe nail (did nit know this could happen) but one of her toes actually sticks straight out and does not grasp like the others (making it that much harder for her)
And I know the possum loves me, she gives me kisses & rides my head as well.


Thanks, Patience
------------------------------
All Animals Rescue
Polk City, Fl
863.874.4347
On Apr 24, 2011, at 10:42 PM, Julie Rocco <juliemrocco@att.net> wrote:


Ferret Nation is a good cage for a ferret but as the possum grows will need a much larger enclosure. I have a close friend who I refer to as a ferret guru and that is what he has for his. Sorry for my misinformation about the possum. That was something I was told ... didn't read it for myself.

If you cannot find a good home for this girl and she truly is non releasable I can help you find her a forever home with someone who knows what they are doing. My biggest concern is for the squirrel. Everybody wants one but 95% of them are clueless when it comes to what is best for them or how to handle them.

Please, before you decide to sell any squirrels in the future please consider giving them to another rehabber or experience squirrel owner. There are plenty of educated squirrel owner and wildlife rehabbers on www.thesquirrelboard.com . Any one of the members would be willing to help you out with any of your NRs.

Thank you,
Julie

[Lulu2010]

Here is another website of squirrel sales.

http://sale.donkiz.co.za/sales/tree_squirrels_for_sale.htm

[Rhapsody]

Now in a case like the one mentioned above with the link that is not a rehabber that has taken on a wild animal in and raised it just to sell its young - that is a licensed breeder that is selling their adult pets off spring..... and their State has given them permission to do so. For any one that took what I said here as ME defending this person I just want to say....

I was in NO way taking up for them -
I was just stating what I knew based on my years of breeding sugar gliders.
and it pains me to think that some of my squirrel friends may be thinking bad
things about me over this person - over the word of a POW as some put it.

:sad :sad :hurt :Cry

[momma2boo]

For any one that took what I said here as ME defending this person I just want to say....

I was in NO way taking up for them -
I was just stating what I knew based on my years of breeding sugar gliders.
and it pains me to think that some of my squirrel friends may be thinking bad
things about me over this person - over the word of a POW as some put it.

:sad :sad :hurt :Cry

I don't understand why you think any of us think you have a hand in selling squirrels. As far as I can see everything implicated one girl who advertised on Hoobly and claims to be associated with All Animals Rescued.

[mugzeezma]

For any one that took what I said here as ME defending this person I just want to say....

I was in NO way taking up for them -
I was just stating what I knew based on my years of breeding sugar gliders.
and it pains me to think that some of my squirrel friends may be thinking bad
things about me over this person - over the word of a POW as some put it.

:sad :sad :hurt :Cry

OH DEAR!!!
NO
the main issue her is that this woman is NOT selling DOMESTICALLY BREED animals but rather she is selling and profiting from wildlife that has been brought to her rather than rehabilitating them back the wild where they came from...a clear violation of her licensing.

There are USDA breeders that sell squirrels and they are regulated as such.

Big difference from people selling domestics

[Rhapsody]

THANKS....... I can wipe the tears from my cheeks now. :Love_Icon

[mugzeezma]

THANKS....... I can wipe the tears from my cheeks now. :Love_Icon
:grouphug

[momma2boo]

That's good news, Carolyn.

[Lulu2010]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am still going back and forth with DNR in Minnesota because they keep transferring me back and forth. I am trying to figure out that regardless if those foxes, squirrels, raccoons, etc are born in captivity, is it still legal to ship them? I know one guy had told me that this place can sell them legally in the state to other people in the state that have permit or whatever but it is illegal for him to ship them. I called the place doing the selling and the guy said they are out of babies right now but will have more in the next couple weeks. He said that they will ship to me in SC. I asked him if they were weaned before shipping and he said no that they will be shipped as "bottle babies". I have no idea how young they would be since they are still on formula sometimes until 16 weeks. My guess is that he doesn't know what he's doing and he ships when they are 4-6 weeks old. I can't imagine him shipping pinkies. He sounded hesitant to answer my questions on the phone. Could have been tired or cautious I guess. I just don't understand how he is all out of babies at this time but will have more in a few weeks and they'll be ready to ship. :dono I still think what he's doing is more illegal than legal. I contacted PETA about it and I'm trying to do my own research. PETA is looking into it and will get back to me with info. I will buy a baby from him if that will get him busted doing something illegal. I'm waiting on DNR game person or whatever she's called to call me back.

[mugzeezma]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am still going back and forth with DNR in Minnesota because they keep transferring me back and forth. I am trying to figure out that regardless if those foxes, squirrels, raccoons, etc are born in captivity, is it still legal to ship them? I know one guy had told me that this place can sell them legally in the state to other people in the state that have permit or whatever but it is illegal for him to ship them. I called the place doing the selling and the guy said they are out of babies right now but will have more in the next couple weeks. He said that they will ship to me in SC. I asked him if they were weaned before shipping and he said no that they will be shipped as "bottle babies". I have no idea how young they would be since they are still on formula sometimes until 16 weeks. My guess is that he doesn't know what he's doing and he ships when they are 4-6 weeks old. I can't imagine him shipping pinkies. He sounded hesitant to answer my questions on the phone. Could have been tired or cautious I guess. I just don't understand how he is all out of babies at this time but will have more in a few weeks and they'll be ready to ship. :dono I still think what he's doing is more illegal than legal. I contacted PETA about it and I'm trying to do my own research. PETA is looking into it and will get back to me with info. I will buy a baby from him if that will get him busted doing something illegal. I'm waiting on DNR game person or whatever she's called to call me back.
I may be totally wrong here...
While it may not be humane to ship babies over state lines I think it's up to the buyer to have the proper permitting, at least that's what I heard fronm the DNR. The told me that it's a FEDERAL issue not STATE
THat's what I was told by Illinois DNR last year
Then people to call would be the folks in the USDA breeders permitting dept?

[Lulu2010]

I may be totally wrong here...
While it may not be humane to ship babies over state lines I think it's up to the buyer to have the proper permitting, at least that's what I heard fronm the DNR. The told me that it's a FEDERAL issue not STATE
THat's what I was told by Illinois DNR last year
Then people to call would be the folks in the USDA breeders permitting dept?

Thanks! I'll have to check into that then. I don't know why it's ok anywhere to sell and ship wild animals regardless if born in captivity. It's cruel.