Can anyone help?

[stephy00227]

Hi there! I am new at this so please bare with me....I have two new babies that were found from a tree that was cut down about a week ago and things have been going ok until today!

I made a new mixture of formula and my strongest baby has had diarrhea ever since! I am not sure if I mixed something wrong or what? I have never taken care of squirrels before and most the information has all come from the Internet but if anyone knows some tips that would be great!

They are about 2 weeks old....very pink, eyes closed and still a little bugged out. I have the Esbilac formula and Pedialyte.....the Pedialyte I gave them the first couple days and since was the formula mixture.

[Milo's Mom]

First, Welcome to TSB! You've come to the right place.
Second, thanks for saving the little ones!!
Third, and most importantly, there are some pretty major issues with the Esbilac these days...they changed their manufacturing process and ever since, well, it's been bad.

Personally, I use Fox Valley Formula and I'll post the link for you in a sec. You have to order it online and it takes a day or two to arrive, but in the meantime, the next best thing to use is Jackie's Goats Milk Formula. Again, I'll post that for you in a sec.

[Milo's Mom]

Here the info is for the Fox Valley and also the Goat's Milk Formula.

Fox Valley 32/40

http://foxvalleynutrition.com/prod/d...p?CID=1&PLID=1
Nicholas P. Vlamis, President (Nick)
(800) 679-4666
If you call in your order and tell him you need it quickly he'll be happy to oblige or he can ship to you regular post 3-5 days and overnight. He's very nice and very easy to work with.
In the meantime you will need to feed your baby a home-made formula, but please for the sake of the baby, do not feed this for more than 4-7 days. It's a great temporary replacer milk but it lacks certain vitamins and minerals that the babies need to thrive. This recipe will ensure that your baby will be well nourished until your order from Fox Valley arrives.

Jackie (Jackie in Tampa) has graciously offered her temporary replacement formula recipe.
Jackie's Goat Milk Recipe
1 cup goats milk
1/3 cup heavy cream
1/3 cup dannon all natural vanilla yogurt

Mix well and keep in a covered plastic or glass container in the refrigerator. Replace after 48 hours.

[Milo's Mom]

Also...
Do you have them on heat?
Do you know how much they weigh?
Please share as much info as possible, as it will help us help you and your little ones.:D

[Jackie in Tampa]

:Welcome :wave123
are they on low heat?

are they hydrated?..can you do the pinch test?
gently lift skin between shoulders, if it stays tented, they will need to be hydrated between formula feedings..I would dilute formula too. Never make formula using pedialyte as liquid.
Never feed ONLY pedialyte for more than 24 hours straight.
Too much sodium...

THe diarrhea could be from many things...
one, Esbilac is KNOWN to cause diarreha in by sqs...
also, parasites can be an issue... stress will bring them forward...
so a warm quiet dark environment is advised, away from all activities..and other pets and children too!
Do you have a vet?
I can refer a great vet in Port Richey, Dr.Nick Maldenado:thumbsup
I recommend a fecal or a rehabber with contacts and meds...
I am thinking a round of ABs would be a good idea and changing formula asap. Fox Valley 32/40 is recommended and is sold on line ONLY...

You can make Goats milk formula until the FV arrives, using a 1cc syringe..slow is key, aspiration pnuemonia is possible if fed too fast...slow!
Jackie's Goat Milk Recipe
1 cup goats milk
1/3 cup heavy cream
1/3 cup dannon all natural vanilla yogurt

Here is a link to help answer many questions you may have...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255

Welome to TSB..and thank you for helping the babies.

EDIT...dang I type so slow...thanks Lili and Milosmom!

[Scooterzmom]

:Welcome to TSB!
Ever since Esbilac has changed their formula a lot of baby squirrels have had trouble digesting it... this is why we all recommend Fox Valley instead. AND IT"S IMPORTANT: They have to be kept warm... babies that age need to be kept warm because they can't regulate their own body temp.

You can order it online, but if you are in Florida, then maybe one of our members can lend you some until your order arrives. Or, at least, make the goat's milk formula using Jackie's recipe.

In the meanwhile I would put the baby on Pedialyte for now - but NO MORE THAN 24 hours! it's too much for their little system otherwise - and then re-introduce formula but use the goats milk recipe at first, and alternate one feeding formula, one feeding of Pedialyte until you see that he does tolerate the formula.

Oops... I see that Jackie has alredy come to the rescue while I finished typing this :bowdown

[stephy00227]

Thanks so much for the welcome and the help! I do have them on low heat in their own private bathroom away from everything. I do dilute the formula with heavy cream and water(something I saw online). From about the third day I had them the formula has worked fine, I am thinking I must not have mixed it the same. But I will for sure look into the Fox Valley! Now, I read something on the Internet that goat's milk was a no, no? Im sure yall know what youre talking about though so I can try that too. They dont weigh much I know that, I have a picture on my cell phone...its not very good but I will try and post it(if I can figure it out)!

[island rehabber]

Moving this thread to Non Life-Threatening Help needed....you've gotten perfect advice so far!

[CritterMom]

This sounds like a straight up Esbilac problem like so many people have experienced over the last 18 months.
18 months ago, the manufacturer of Esbilac change the drying process in their manufacturing. They went to a single step drying process which produced a formula powder that no longer absorbed the water it is mixed with. The formula powder goes into suspension – it LOOKS like it is mixed, but it isn’t. Because the powder does not absorb the water, the baby squirrel doesn’t absorb the formula. The powder solids pass straight through as – you got it – diarrhea. An untold number of babies were lost before anyone could figure out what the problem was.
The manufacturer recommends mixing the formula up a minimum of EIGHT HOURS before feeding, to give the powder a longer time to “get wet.” Some people have used it this way with success, but of course you must also add things like heavy cream and yogurt to it because puppy formula does not really have enough fat in it ti raise a squirrel.
Most of us have changed over to the Fox Valley 32/40. It is cheaper than Esbilac and is designed specifically with wildlife, not puppies in mind. This is the reason you are being advised to switch foods. We have seen this so many times before – honestly, I see “diarrhea” in a post title and I KNOW I am going to find a baby being fed Esbilac when I open the post!

[Milo's Mom]

Thanks so much for the welcome and the help! I do have them on low heat in their own private bathroom away from everything. I do dilute the formula with heavy cream and water(something I saw online). From about the third day I had them the formula has worked fine, I am thinking I must not have mixed it the same. But I will for sure look into the Fox Valley! Now, I read something on the Internet that goat's milk was a no, no? Im sure yall know what youre talking about though so I can try that too. They dont weigh much I know that, I have a picture on my cell phone...its not very good but I will try and post it(if I can figure it out)!

The Goat's Milk Recipe is from one of our Seriously Awesome Rehabbers (Jackie). If she says Goats Milk, then personally, I'd do Goats Milk. The Goat's Milk needs to have stuff added to it and it is only until the Fox Valley arrives.
Cow's milk, in any shape or form is NOT good for squirrels.

[Milo's Mom]

If you can tell us you general location (do not be specific), we may have members in your area and they may have some Fox Valley on hand and be able to lend you some until your order gets in.
When you are talking to Nick about the formula, you may want to order yourself some 1cc syringes and nipples if you do not already have them.

[Jackie in Tampa]

She is an hour north of Tampa...crazy4squirrels{tina} would be closest member, I have everything needed is no one else can help sooner.
I cannot leave Tampa unless NO OTHER OPTION is available...
Sometimes it is a formula issue as Crittermom said...a pic will help...
Have they ever had solid poops?

[Milo's Mom]

She is an hour north of Tampa...crazy4squirrels{tina} would be closest member, I have everything needed is no one else can help sooner.
I cannot leave Tampa unless NO OTHER OPTION is available...
Sometimes it is a formula issue as Crittermom said...a pic will help...
Have they ever had solid poops?

Jackie - in case I have never told you...U ROCK!!! I sure hope we have the opportunity to meet one day!!
Now, back to the issue at hand!!

[mpetys]

Hi stephy00227 - since you are in Florida, you might want to check with www.henryspets.com to order the Fox Valley as they are located in Melbourne and you very well might receive it the next day. Shipping is a flat $5.99 no matter if you order 1 bag of formula or more. One suggestion is that I would call their number on their website to verify that they have the Fox Valley in stock just to avoid any problems.

I used Ebsilac on my first four squirrels a year ago and three of them did not make it. I got the Fox Valley in and started the last one on it and he was able to turn around and survive.

Welcome to TSB!

Michele

[Chickenlegs]

Um--if you haven't noticed already--folks here will walk over broken glass to help a squirrel. Your babies are in good hands--yours and all the experts here! :Welcome

[stephy00227]

She is an hour north of Tampa...crazy4squirrels{tina} would be closest member, I have everything needed is no one else can help sooner.
I cannot leave Tampa unless NO OTHER OPTION is available...
Sometimes it is a formula issue as Crittermom said...a pic will help...
Have they ever had solid poops?


Yes, I have had solids everyday until today, which was when I made a new batch of formula. I have been using the kind that is in the can(already mixed). I am trying to figure out how to post my picture now.

[Milo's Mom]

if it is easier for now, e-mail the pic to me and I'll post it for you. My e-mail is bdshank@gmail.com.

[Kristal]

Thanks so much for the welcome and the help! I do have them on low heat in their own private bathroom away from everything. I do dilute the formula with heavy cream and water(something I saw online). From about the third day I had them the formula has worked fine, I am thinking I must not have mixed it the same. But I will for sure look into the Fox Valley! Now, I read something on the Internet that goat's milk was a no, no? Im sure yall know what youre talking about though so I can try that too. They dont weigh much I know that, I have a picture on my cell phone...its not very good but I will try and post it(if I can figure it out)!

I came to this board feeling very, very frustrated because I had spent many hours going over information on the internet and still had not resolved problem #1, which was what do I feed them. There is just too much and, at the same time, not enough info out there on this subject. Much of it is dated and old fashioned, too. Everyone seems to be contradicting each other.

I took a leap on CritterMoms encouragement and did the goats milk formula for a week and a half while the Fox Valley was in the post on it's way here. I have had no regrets. They brightened up and fattened up just fine and had good looking poops all the way through. My kits came to me practically on deaths door with starvation and dehydration, and they bounced back well with the goats milk mix.

Also, your kits should not be pink at two weeks of age or older. They should be turning grey or brown with fuzzy fur. The formula they are getting may not be very digestible for them and therefore not nutritious enough, and so their growth might even be slowed. This is bad. Post pictures if you can, please.

Do the goats milk mixture while you wait for the Fox Valley to come in the mail. This is the right choice, trust me.

[stephy00227]

if it is easier for now, e-mail the pic to me and I'll post it for you. My e-mail is bdshank@gmail.com.


I just emailed the pic to you....thanks!

[Jackie in Tampa]

very important...
canned Esbilac should never be stored in the fridge in THE CAN>>>
2nd, canned esbilac is good only 72 hours tops...
remander can be froze into cubes and melted/thawed as needed..
BUT I TOO would opt for FV asap and Gmilk til then!:tilt
WE are anti PETAG:poke can you tell!:nono
a pic would help!:Love_Icon

[stephy00227]

I really do appreciate everyone's help!! I didnt know what to expect by joining here but I am sure glad I did! I was almost going to give up hope on how to do this myself but I am so glad there are a lot of people out there willing to walk me through this!! :thankyou

[Milo's Mom]

Here is a pic of the babies...
137312

[mpetys]

Hey, we have another member from Weeki Wachi. Domino*Effect*Rescue*?who is fairly new but they may have some Fox Valley they could share. I am on my cell phone so could someone PM them with a link to this thread to see if they could help? Please post if someone does this or, if not, when I get back in, I will do it.

[Milo's Mom]

Tried to help the pic a little...
137313

[Milo's Mom]

It would probably be a good idea to use some fleece or if you do not have any, at least a towel that does NOT have "loops". Their claws can get caught in the loops of the towel very easily and can cause a broken toe, foot, etc.
A towel without loops is like a cut carpet versus a Berber carpet. T-shirts, flannel shirts, etc work well too.
I am not trying to harp on you, I know your freaking out about the poop, just wanting to help you help them grow up.

[stephy00227]

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE PICTURE!!! They are so cute!! So as you see they are still really, really little....I have changed their towel though to an old shirt because I read their names can get stuck on the towel and break their ankles! It is feeding time now, so I will let everyone know how it goes!

[Kristal]

WE are anti PETAG:poke can you tell!:nono


What's PETAG?

[Milo's Mom]

What's PETAG?

The name of the company that produces Esbilac among other formulas.

[mpetys]

Ok, I figured out how to do it and sent them a link to this thread. If I was reading things right, it looked like the last time they were on was April 12th so they might not see the PM. No email available to contact with.

[Milo's Mom]

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE PICTURE!!! They are so cute!! So as you see they are still really, really little....I have changed their towel though to an old shirt because I read their names can get stuck on the towel and break their ankles! It is feeding time now, so I will let everyone know how it goes!

Good Move!! :thumbsup

If possible, after you feed them, please try to get yourself some Fox Valley and/or Goat's Milk.

[Kristal]

Good Move!! :thumbsup

If possible, after you feed them, please try to get yourself some Fox Valley and/or Goat's Milk.

Yea... and you mentioned that you had had them for two weeks, meaning that they are older than two weeks?? These guys are much too small for their age. Please post full body pics because I am almost wondering if they are even squirrels at this point :p

And yes, you really MUST get off of that formula if they are to survive, by the looks of it. Still, transitioning has to be done slowly so as not to compound the problem with digestive issues. You add 25% of the new formula every other feeding until they are at 100% new formula. It is easier on their little tummies this way.

[island rehabber]

They look like 9-10 day old squirrels to me; are you sure you've had them two weeks?

[stephy00227]

They look like 9-10 day old squirrels to me; are you sure you've had them two weeks?

No I am not 100% sure....I will have had them a week on this Thursday. So I just assumed they may have been a week before I got them....I took that pic the first day I had them. They are very tiny and there were 4 to begin with but two had died before the guys got them to me.....they came from a 30 foot palm tree, that was cut down, so they had a long fall.

[Domino Effect Rescue]

I do not have any FV at the present time. However I do have goats milk and I still have some Esbilac that I use for my rehab baby wild bunnies. My number is Domino Effect Rescue Ranch 352-596-3104 Could lend a hand with supplies or I can take the babies and raise them. We release all of our wildlife tenants once they are mature. We have soft release cages. Bob Ashcraft
:thankyou

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Do you have a gram scale you can weigh them on? That is the easiest way to track their progress :thumbsup.

Also, the goat's milk is listed as something not to feed a baby squirrel because straight goat milk does not have enough nutrients for squirrels. It is too low in fat and is not good for a squirrel if fed alone. It isn't the goats milk that is "bad" it's just that by itself it isn't OK for baby squirrels. With Jackie's recipe you add heavy cream which boosts that fat and yogurt also adds more nutrients to the goat milk. So, it isn't straight goat milk, but a formula with goat's milk as the base with stuff added to it and that makes it a good choice :thumbsup.

[stephy00227]

I do not have any FV at the present time. However I do have goats milk and I still have some Esbilac that I use for my rehab baby wild bunnies. My number is Domino Effect Rescue Ranch 352-596-3104 Could lend a hand with supplies or I can take the babies and raise them. We release all of our wildlife tenants once they are mature. We have soft release cages. Bob Ashcraft
:thankyou

Thank you Bob, I may give you a call in a little bit about the goat's milk, unless I can just buy it at a Publix? I would like to try and raise them myself for now but I do appreciate the offer and if it ever so happens that I am unable to, then you will be the first person I call! Thanks again!

[stephy00227]

Do you have a gram scale you can weigh them on? That is the easiest way to track their progress :thumbsup.

Also, the goat's milk is listed as something not to feed a baby squirrel because straight goat milk does not have enough nutrients for squirrels. It is too low in fat and is not good for a squirrel if fed alone. It isn't the goats milk that is "bad" it's just that by itself it isn't OK for baby squirrels. With Jackie's recipe you add heavy cream which boosts that fat and yogurt also adds more nutrients to the goat milk. So, it isn't straight goat milk, but a formula with goat's milk as the base with stuff added to it and that makes it a good choice :thumbsup.

Thanks...that makes more sense! The internet is filled with things that all seem to disagree with each other! I am really glad I came across this site though! I dont think I have a scale but maybe I can stop and pick on up!

[Jackie in Tampa]

Thank you Bob, I may give you a call in a little bit about the goat's milk, unless I can just buy it at a Publix? I would like to try and raise them myself for now but I do appreciate the offer and if it ever so happens that I am unable to, then you will be the first person I call! Thanks again!
yes publix has goats milk fresh in the dairy refridgerated section, so is the heavy cream and yogurt...
MEYERBURG brand goatsmilk...purple paper carton like milk.

make as the recipe indicates, but dilute with water..adding the same amount of water as formula at first...each feeding adding less water...
go slow...use a syringe please...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24053

ordering formula is a must along with nipples and syringes..
this link will be fastest and cheapest..do this NOW please!!!!
http://henryspets.com/

yes they are tiny...
after they are stable...you will need to read a few other links...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24133

there is alot of cost and time required to raise baby sqs...
and trust me when I say...they are totally addictig...
I started with one almost 9 years ago...and now have 846,
j/k..... but not by along shot!:crazy
do not keep them in cardboard box...as it will dry them out causing more dehydration, use a sterlite container with air holes drilled in lid and upper edge of sterlite...
hydration is key as well as warmth...
never tilt them back while feeding...
if bubbles come from nose, slow down...tip nose towards floor allowing milk to run out...wipe off excess and resume...slower...
good luck...
:thumbsup help may be a good choice..at least get all the info that is offered {bob}and a back up plan if needed... baby sqs go down hill fast...:shakehead
:grouphug
good luck

[mpetys]

I do not have any FV at the present time. However I do have goats milk and I still have some Esbilac that I use for my rehab baby wild bunnies. My number is Domino Effect Rescue Ranch 352-596-3104 Could lend a hand with supplies or I can take the babies and raise them. We release all of our wildlife tenants once they are mature. We have soft release cages. Bob Ashcraft
:thankyou

Thank you Domino Effect Rescue! If nothing else, it should be reassuring to stephy00227 to have a member right there in Weeki Wachi to turn to for help.

[stephy00227]

Thank you Domino Effect Rescue! If nothing else, it should be reassuring to stephy00227 to have a member right there in Weeki Wachi to turn to for help.

I actually spoke with Bob and he is about 5 minutes from my house! Small world! He was very helpful and if my little guys dont turn around they will be living with Bob....although I am able to still see them!

[Kristal]

It might be good to ask him to tutor you on feeding technique. You have to hold the tiny ones up almost vertically in one hand and feed by slowly pressing the milk out while the syringe is held at a downward angle. Your hands should make a triangle shape: squirrel held up in one and syringe held up in the other with the plunger at the bottom. It is tricky to do, at first, but very important. When they are older it is ok to feed them while they are laying flat on their tummies.

[stephy00227]

I want to thank everyone for all your help!! I spoke with Bob from Domino Effect and he is now their caregiver. We both thought it was best for someone who has more experience and resources to care for them. He and his were so nice and helpful! Not to mention they live about 5 minutes from me, so I can see them on a regular basis. I miss them so much already but I know they are in good hands. Thanks again with all your help!:thankyou

[Milo's Mom]

stephy - I know the decision you made was hard but it was the right decision. You thought only about their well being versus your own feelings and that is a hard thing to do. I applaud you for that :thumbsup :D

If you've got it in your blood, Squirrel Love that is, maybe Bob could use a Volunteer (you'd get to see your babies a lot more often...)??? It's worth asking the question.

Thank you again for saving these babies and for only thinking of their well being. Not everyone is able to do that even though they mean only the best.

You better hang around here and give us updates!!:wave123
And PICS...we LOVE pics!!

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[stephy00227]

stephy - I know the decision you made was hard but it was the right decision. You thought only about their well being versus your own feelings and that is a hard thing to do. I applaud you for that :thumbsup :D

If you've got it in your blood, Squirrel Love that is, maybe Bob could use a Volunteer (you'd get to see your babies a lot more often...)??? It's worth asking the question.

Thank you again for saving these babies and for only thinking of their well being. Not everyone is able to do that even though they mean only the best.

You better hang around here and give us updates!!:wave123
And PICS...we LOVE pics!!

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug


Thank you....it was very hard and I miss them so much! Bob did say he could use a volunteer and that I could come by, so that makes this process easier. I appreciate all your help! And I will get pictures for sure, although I may have to email you because I still dont know how to post!? Thanks again!!

[Jackie in Tampa]

:bowdown to you and Bob...
:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug
awesome!!