Is this Med safe?

[Lulu2010]

Another member that lives down the road a bit from me had 2 baby squirrels. One recently passed (not sure of what specifically) and the other has what sounds like pneumonia. Squirrel is about 4 weeks old I believe. They need medicine desperately and I don't have much on hand and am not sure what is safe to give. Will call around and see what my family has in their cabinets. In the mean time, I found the antibiotic my vet gave me for a rat with a chronic URI. Would this be safe? Azithromycin? Following that it says 200mg/5ml 30ml. The only other med I have on hand is nebulizer with meds and doxycicline (?). Please help so I can take her some meds! Thanks

[Busysqrl]

bump . . .

[Jackie in Tampa]

AZITHROMYCIN

BRAND: ZITHROMAX
PFIZER
4 to 8mg/lb BID-SID, PO
.1 to .2cc/lb BID for the first 14 days, then .1 to .2cc/lb SID for another 14 days, if needed
Bacteriostatic, broad-spectrum antibiotic. Good for respiratory infections. Has been shown to have excellent results on younger rats, but is less effective on chronic, older rats. Use in combination with Doxycycline for better results in these cases. (Caution: there have been two reported cases of stroke using this combination, although they have not been definitively connected to use of either drug.) Does attack mycoplasma specifically. Cherry flavored — most rats love it. Expensive. Prescription needed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I copied this from my rat chart...I have NO EXPERIENCE with this med..
howeevr it appears to be safe for ratties...here is the dosing..
this is going to be a heavy on the tummy, some type of probotic is going to be needed...
I would keep them really warm and ck for dehydration next...
Rice buddy will keep them cuddly warm, use both heat sources...
:grouphug
oh yeah...note that meds are dosed in pounds{lb} not mg/kg

[Lulu2010]

Thanks Jackie. How do I figure a dose for this baby? I just don't understand how to dose. I was corrected, the squirrel is 6 weeks old. Should we nebulize her as well or will that be a bad combination with the meds we have on hand? I need to know soon if anybody knows bc this baby needs some meds soon. Thanks!

[madtowntom]

Thanks Jackie. How do I figure a dose for this baby? I just don't understand how to dose. I was corrected, the squirrel is 6 weeks old. Should we nebulize her as well or will that be a bad combination with the meds we have on hand? I need to know soon if anybody knows bc this baby needs some meds soon. Thanks!

Do you have a weight on the squirrel - that would make it easier. Also need to know the concentration (mg/mL) of the antibiotic you have on hand.

[madtowntom]

Do you have a weight on the squirrel - that would make it easier. Also need to know the concentration (mg/mL) of the antibiotic you have on hand.



or how big was the rat that it was prescribed for and what was the recommended dosage for the rat?

[Lulu2010]

The meds are 200MG/5ML. I'm trying to get a weight on him/her now. The rat passed and I don't remember his weight (he was big) but his dose was .16 cc once daily and after 24 hours increase to .32 cc if no diarrhea. If he got diarrhea then go back to .16 and start over trying to increase dose again. Says he would have been on it 30 days.

[madtowntom]

The meds are 200MG/5ML. I'm trying to get a weight on him/her now. The rat passed and I don't remember his weight (he was big) but his dose was .16 cc once daily and after 24 hours increase to .32 cc if no diarrhea. If he got diarrhea then go back to .16 and start over trying to increase dose again. Says he would have been on it 30 days.


40mg/mL is pretty concentrated for a 6 week old squirrel. Assuming he weighs 100 gms, you would want to give him 0.03 cc (mL) two times a day X 14 days, which is equivalent to a dose of about 1.3 mg. At that level you are dosing the middle of the range noted by Jackie in Tampa (6mg/lb). If you have a 1/2 cc syringe you could probably be pretty accurate. A good 1 cc syringe will allow a good guestimate, but when you get that small of volume it is difficult.

If there is anybody around that would like to check my math it would be appreciated! Let me know if you get an actual weight I can recheck the dose!

[Lulu2010]

Ok. The weight I was told is 1/8 of a pound. However, the member is not certain how accurate this scale may be. Sounds kind of small to me. I don't know. Lulu was the size of a 5-6 week old and weighed in at 72 grams (but she was really 10-11 weeks old). Anyone have any ideas?

[Lulu2010]

Ok so that would be almost 57 grams roughly. Maybe the scale is a bit off. Does that sound right?

[madtowntom]

Ok so that would be almost 57 grams roughly. Maybe the scale is a bit off. Does that sound right?

Sounds pretty small for a 6 weeker, but if that is the case you would need to cut the dose I noted above in half, so I would try giving 2 one hundredths of milliliter (0.02 cc) twice a day. Do you have a syringe to allow you to do that?

These are greys - right?

[Lulu2010]

Yep baby grey. I just picked up a 1cc syringe. Smallest I can get right now. Thanks for the info!

[madtowntom]

Yep baby grey. I just picked up a 1cc syringe. Smallest I can get right now. Thanks for the info!

Thanks for all your efforts to save the little guy!

[Lulu2010]

Ok. So anyone know if we can nebulize the baby? I know it can be done with squirrels but will this med he/she is going to be on be effected if we nebulize? Also, is it better to slightly under dose or slightly over dose? I just don't think the baby is only 57 grams. I don't think we will have any better luck getting a better weight until at least tomorrow. So should we just go with the 57 grams for now? thanks. Sorry we just don't want to medicate until we are set on what to do. Gonna meet here soon to give her the meds.

[Jackie in Tampa]

are you talking albuterol nuebulizing...
if so, that races the heart too much!!!
what is the med ?

If the baby is clicking -warmth, hydration, ABs and probotics ...
these are key!
If he appears stuffy or raspy, guppy breathing, I would use a VAPORIZER, not a nuebulizer.
Is the baby hydrated? have you done the pinch test?


Never put a sq face to the nuebulizer, always take medication in your own mouth first and GENTLY slowly exhale into sqs face...
I have found noisy nuebulizers scare/frighten sqs.
A sterlite container can be adapted to a chamber and the machine hooked up to that.
I am not recommending this, I'm just saying...

[Lulu2010]

Thanks Jackie. We won't worry with the nebulizer right now then. I don't know what meds come with it. It was just what the exotic vet sold to me to use for a sick rat. It doesn't say what it is. We'll just dose her with the Azithromycin based on the weight we got of approx 57 grams. We are going to weigh her again when we meet.

[UDoWhat]

I know I am a little late to the party here but just logged on. Another rehabber friend of mine here in MD had several baby greys on this med last Fall. She told me it was wonderful and kicked in right away. I don't remember the particulars of why they were on it. Just that it worked. Also about nebulizing, is this med in a liquid form? With or without flavoring? I actually don't know why you couldn't nebulize even if it contains flavor. My Vet has me dilute whatever med I am using with 4-6cc of sterile water or distilled water with one dose of the meds and put in nebulizer cup. Don't know if this helps. Also will try to reach my friend to see if she nebulized or not. But I may not be able to reach her until tomorrow.

Marty, Licensed Maryland Master Wildlife Rehabilitator

[Lulu2010]

I think I remember my rat's weight. I think he weighed almost a pound. I can't find his papers from the vet but I remember the doctor telling me 400 ish and I said "wow that's almost a pound". So if that is the case, then this baby should be getting about a 1/4 of what he got right? that would be .04 one time a day. Then after 24-48 hours, increase to .08. Because it should only be given once a day right? I'm heading to meet her now. Any thought woudl be appreciated before we dose tonight! thanks!!!!!

[Lulu2010]

I know I am a little late to the party here but just logged on. Another rehabber friend of mine here in MD had several baby greys on this med last Fall. She told me it was wonderful and kicked in right away. I don't remember the particulars of why they were on it. Just that it worked. Also about nebulizing, is this med in a liquid form? With or without flavoring? I actually don't know why you couldn't nebulize even if it contains flavor. My Vet has me dilute whatever med I am using with 4-6cc of sterile water or distilled water with one dose of the meds and put in nebulizer cup. Don't know if this helps. Also will try to reach my friend to see if she nebulized or not. But I may not be able to reach her until tomorrow.

Marty, Licensed Maryland Master Wildlife Rehabilitator
Please try to find out tomorrow. We are going to start it tonight. Please let us know so we can change dose if necessary. I do not want to hurt this baby. thanks!

[UDoWhat]

Will call her tomorrow morning and post back here in a.m. asap.

Marty

[Jackie in Tampa]

You will need a weight in grams to dose any medicine..
a digital scale can be bought at Walmart for $20...


sounds like someone with experience is helping:thumbsup
:grouphug hugs for the babies and the helpers!

[UDoWhat]

Jackie, I have no direct experience. Just a friend who used it for the first time last Fall. Will call her tomorrow for more info. Basically, I have no real experience with this drug. If you can, please continue to advise us.

Marty

[Lulu2010]

Ok. We met and decided on .02cc two times a day. We just aren't sure if they get it once or twice a day.
Doing .02cc 2X a day is .04cc which is 1/4 of what my rat got. My rat was dosed .16cc once a day. However, my rat was supposed to have his dose increased to .32cc still once a day. Would that mean that we need to increase the squirrel to .08cc one time a day or .04 two times a day? I hope that's not confusing. I believe the weight on the baby to be accurate. Eyes open and tiny. Weight is 57 grams. Also how long do we treat? Do we do the 2 weeks? In case anyone feels lost, the med is Azithromycin. It is 200MG/5ML.

[ShadowCritter]

:thankyou :grouphug

I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone here for trying to help my baby, Sophie. She and I both greatly appreciate it. I gave her the recommended dosage of medication as soon as we got home and she immediately perked up and started getting more active, (I think she really liked the taste!) Then I gave her some formula and put her to bed. Let's hope this makes her feel better! Thanks again for all your help!

[madtowntom]

Ok. We met and decided on .02cc two times a day. We just aren't sure if they get it once or twice a day.
Doing .02cc 2X a day is .04cc which is 1/4 of what my rat got. My rat was dosed .16cc once a day. However, my rat was supposed to have his dose increased to .32cc still once a day. Would that mean that we need to increase the squirrel to .08cc one time a day or .04 two times a day? I hope that's not confusing. I believe the weight on the baby to be accurate. Eyes open and tiny. Weight is 57 grams. Also how long do we treat? Do we do the 2 weeks? In case anyone feels lost, the med is Azithromycin. It is 200MG/5ML.

According to the prescribing info that Jackie provided Azithromycin should be administered 2 times per day for 14 days and then 1 time a day for 14 more days. The 0.02 cc is approximately equivalent to the middle of the dosing range in the prescribing info. I would not worry about adjusting the dose at this point - let's see how the baby does. It would be good to get some type of probiotic for her. If nothing else add some yogurt to the formula.

Good Luck ShadowCritter - thank you for taking care of the sick babe! I assuming you have her in a nice warm spot like on a heating pad. You might also want to give her 1-2 extra feedings of electrolyte solution tomorrow to make sure she stays hydrated.

[Lulu2010]

Madtowntom- thanks so much for your help. You have been great. I have been freaking out bc it's not a med I've ever used. I feel like I can sleep knowing the baby is getting what she needs. I also gave a tube of the probiotic stuff (sorry I'm tired and forgot the name). I have to pm SC with the directions.

SC- I am so happy we got everything worked out for your Sophie. She is a beautiful girl and I can tell you love her very much. Stay in touch and let me know if you need anything else. Feel better Sophie!

[UDoWhat]

I just reached my friend. The Azithromycin dosing instructions were correct as Jackie and Madtowntom,etc. had instructed. She however was told by her vet to give 2x per day by mouth for 1 week and then 2x per week for 4 weeks. Just different instruction as per vets . He felt these mycos/respiratory things can rebound easily and needed abs longer. I don't know . I would go by what her vet told her. Now , her vet gave her a "new" drug to nebulize. She said she feels it saved her babies. Saw a difference in 3/4 days. He said ask your vet for Zosyn($$$)(piperacillin/tazobactam).Instructions were to put .5ml with 6cc of sterile water or 0.09% Normal saline. Mix and put in neb cup. Put baby in chamber for 10min. Her babies ranged from 90-130 grms. I don't know if dosing would be different for this smaller baby as per nebulizer treatment. Would need to consult with vet or others who might know. How is baby?

Marty Oops forgot . Her vet said to give babies 1cc of Activa yogurt 2x per day.

[ShadowCritter]

I just reached my friend. The Azithromycin dosing instructions were correct as Jackie and Madtowntom,etc. had instructed. She however was told by her vet to give 2x per day by mouth for 1 week and then 2x per week for 4 weeks. Just different instruction as per vets . He felt these mycos/respiratory things can rebound easily and needed abs longer. I don't know . I would go by what her vet told her. Now , her vet gave her a "new" drug to nebulize. She said she feels it saved her babies. Saw a difference in 3/4 days. He said ask your vet for Zosyn($$$)(piperacillin/tazobactam).Instructions were to put .5ml with 6cc of sterile water or 0.09% Normal saline. Mix and put in neb cup. Put baby in chamber for 10min. Her babies ranged from 90-130 grms. I don't know if dosing would be different for this smaller baby as per nebulizer treatment. Would need to consult with vet or others who might know. How is baby?

Marty Oops forgot . Her vet said to give babies 1cc of Activa yogurt 2x per day.


She seems to be doing alright at the moment. She loves the taste of her medicine, and goes nuts when I give her some. I'm not so sure it's in her lungs so much as in her nose. I can hear the noises when I put my ear up to her nose, put when I listen to her chest, I don't hear anything. Everything that I've heard about aspiration pneumonia says that babies get lethargic, cold, and won't eat. She is very hyper when she's awake, and she eats like a ravenous wolverine! :rotfl
So I dunno? I'm gonna keep her on her meds and see if the clicking stops.

Oh, and also I had her on Dannon all natural vanilla yogurt for a while, but I'll try the activia

[UDoWhat]

Great news. No need to over med her if she doesn't need to be. I have had this in babies and it never went to their lungs but stayed upper resp. for a few weeks. Keep us posted.