Flyer acting strange, depression?

[BellaBaby]

My flyer has been acting strange, I'm not sure if it has to do with it being so cold or it coming into mating season. She is usually active and full of energy. Here recently she has been lazing about, not really responsive and has lost a bit of weight. She doesn't seem to be interested in water or her favorite foods, or even chewing..I checked her teeth and they are not giving her problems. What could this possibly mean? Do I need to get a vet to see her? Help?

[CritterMom]

Tell us what her diet is. Is she eating a rodent block of any kind?

[BellaBaby]

I give her fruits and veggies, nuts, berries... I have tried giving her a calcium block awhile back and she had no interest in it. I am not sure what a rodent block is? But I can definitely get her one if that is the problem.

[gs1]

flyers are the carnivores of the squirrel world....:Welcome

here is a quote from another thread by pappy


http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27182&highlight=meat



Hello, the first thing I am noticing is a very small amount of animal protein in your boys diet. There have been some recent deaths of flyers, and looking at the diets, the one thing that seemed to stick out was the lack of or not enough protein, mainly animal protein. I have four flyers. Three of mine came to me as adults, on seed only diets. They were fat, had greasy fur and not alot of energy. They were put on a more balanced diet (greens, veggies, few fruits, nuts AS TREATS, rodent block, yogurt and bugs every day. And so you know my adults get about 5-10 waxworms a day on top of all their other food. I handfeed them in the morning. Only two, Rocket-my only male, and Jett, my little baby girl, will eat mealworms. I switch it up with them, and again, they will usually eat 5 mealworms a day.) I handraised Jett from about 4 weeks old (but she was much smaller from lack of food. We suspected mom had died, and the babies came out of the wall in someone's house looking for food. They were all in rough shape. Thankfully all made it.) Anyway, Jett was raised on Fox Valley and did FANTASTIC on it! She grew by the hour, I swear. She is 6 mos old and still gets fv every night (she will even still take it via syringe, but usually I will mix the powder, and a little heavy cream, into her full fat yogurt.) I gave Jett the same amount of protein my adults got. And suddenly, I started noticing her fur thinning, her energy level was going down, she was sleeping more. I panicked. She even lost weight. After speaking to some people, I upped her protein and she is doing great! I truly believe not enough animal protein is causing alot of problems with these babies. I believe, since they are growing, they seem to have a need for even more protein then adults (unless said adult is a lactating mom, then I believe that mom needs more protein, as well.)

Can I say with 100% certainty this is what caused these deaths? No, but I have to scratch my head when seeing the one common denominator seems to be protein and how much and what kind is being fed. I have owned flyers for four years, so I am far from an expert, but I have learned alot and I also have gliders, who have a relatively big need for protein, as well, so have some experience with what protein is needed for.

I think as a whole community, we are still learning, and have much to learn about these amazing creatures.

I would up the animal protein in his diet, and get him on yogurt. He should also still be offered formula (you can put a small dish of it in at night. You can even break up some rodent block in it, mine like it that way.)

I am sure others will chime in, but that is my personal opinion on this. Flyers can be picky eaters and it is very easy to feed them 'the things they like' and then they won't touch other things. They train us well! But just like with children, we have to have a strong back bone and get them to eat what they need, not just what they want.

Oh, and get rid of those yogurt treats.....WAY TOO MUCH SUGAR!!!!! Start offering yogurt, full fat (Stoneybrook makes a great one, French Vanilla, Cream on the top....mine love it!) Oh, just reread, stop the banana chips, too. Anything 'dried' tends to be loaded with sugar (sure, they love it...what 'kid' doesn't love sugary treats!)

As the spring comes, as long as you know no pesticides are used, there are many 'wild foods' that are great for flyers and they LOVE!

I am very sorry for the loss of your first flyer. It is heartbreaking to suffer a loss, esp. when it just seemingly comes out of nowhere.

Good luck! And he is a total doll!!!!

And so you know, flyers can like something one week, then not the next, then want it again two weeks later. It can be a constant battle at times, but stay consistent, try not to 'fill in' with treats because they will stash them and then not have to eat the good stuff!

[CritterMom]

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17677

Please read this thread Squirrels need calcium or they develop metabolic bone disease and the lethargy and weight loss are definitely symptoms. The first thing you need to do is start getting some calcium into her - you can use Tums for the time being. The 500mg dose is for a gray squirrel, I would drop it to 250 for a flyer. Lots of people will help you on here, but the basic info is in the above thread.

We will help you find a rodent block she likes - you might look at the ones sold here: www.henryspets,com. She is a TSB member.

I have to run but please start with the calcium...

[BellaBaby]

I giver her moths and other bugs, I wouldn't say on a daily basis but that is definitely something I need to do. What exactly are rodent blocks?
What are the best kinds of bugs to give her? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. =]

[gs1]

one of our members is in melbourne/florida ...she sells fox valley formula

i'm posting the link ...give her a call and see if she can send you some asap....

maybe there's something else she can suggest....

mrs.skul one of our flyer experts will be on later today and i'm sure she'll have suggestions ...:thumbsup :grouphug

http://www.henryspets.com/categories/Rehab-Supplies/

flyers do well to have fox valley formula for their entire lives..it has calcium, fat and protein ...very important in the flyer diet....

but meat ...is extremely important.... worms/insects are very good but also cooked chicken ....

[gs1]

I giver her moths and other bugs, I wouldn't say on a daily basis but that is definitely something I need to do. What exactly are rodent blocks?
What are the best kinds of bugs to give her? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. =]


rodent blocks ..have vitamins/minerals and calories.... the above link i gave you also sells them....

right now you've got to get calcium and protien into her asap....

i'll copy the protocol for mbd .... for you but i'd be doing both .... this is a flyer so i'm more worried about protein deficiency than i am about calcium....

but do both asap ....

i'll see if i can find a flyer person to come on for you....:grouphug

[gs1]

I giver her moths and other bugs, I wouldn't say on a daily basis but that is definitely something I need to do. What exactly are rodent blocks?
What are the best kinds of bugs to give her? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. =]

some give wax worms and others give meal worms... the flyer forum is a wealth of knowledge for you .....

but asap ... get some cooked chicken for her if you've got nothing else on hand...

do you have tums or some kind of calcium suppliment...

what about vanilla yogurt that's also high in calcium and is part of flyer diets....

mushrooms? for vitamin d (to help absorb the calcium)

(i'm sending you a private message with phone number/s of people that you can call right now....)

do you have a flyer vet? i'd take the flyer in if the vet is experienced with flyers.

[TinyPaws]

All my squirrels, even Dylan my grey has a daily diet of fox valley..I mix it in yogart or baby food fruit..I also feed waxworms daily..one-three depending on the size of the worm..

My flyers get one pecan per day..Bonnie will munch on it throughout the night..

Whenever a flyer is lathargic, always think something's not right...and act immediately..these little guys can go down hill extremely fast...

[gs1]

:thumbsup tp....

(ps:tp ... pappys jett /mrs.skuls flyers get 10!! worms per day ... lol...depends on the flyer i guess.... the other 3 of pappys don't want so much meat)


bella ...sent phone numbers.....:grouphug

[BellaBaby]

Alright, thank you! That thread was very helpful, I am getting started on the tums treatment and ordering those flying squirrel blocks! =] Hopefully this will get her feeling better soon, Thank you so much!
I will be getting some wax worms and meal worms as soon as possible. I'm sending someone to get them for me right now.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I too feed meal worms..
or superworms...
I call wax worms, grubs.
Big ugly white thing, with what looks like a blue grey helmet.
Yuck, but Yummy for the flyers.
I have several...well more than that...but anyways, not sure how many actually...:dono
I feed mushrooms, worms, yogurt, chicken chips {dog treat} black seed, pecans with and without the shell, hazelnuts, dry oatmeal, store bought Kaytee{vegetarian} rat blocks, chopped up boiled egg with the shell still on, all natural applesauce {no sugar added}, cooked and cleaned chicken bones, HHBs {Henrys Healthy Blocks, a calcium suppliment food designed for sqs, only one on the market}
a salad with various veggies and fruits nightly...
I also have a stealth wheel for them, they live outside year round in a gazebo with a guinea pigs as the janitor/security guard!

If I had to guess what was up with your flyer...I would say low calcium and protien...
Will she still take formula? from a syringe or a bowl?
we have a boatload of members with flyers...mostly at night..
I am sure the flyer folks will give a better list of goodies to try...

The above post by Pappy is excellent info!

with my new rescued flyers, I have found they comply and change diets better than grey sqs...
hope this helps some.
If you see seizures...you will need to follow the emergency MBD treatment..
Metabolic bone disease is from low calcium...weak and brittle bones...lethargy is the first symptom usually seen.
I hope I did not scare you, she maybe having a bad hair day:sanp3 ...but better safe than sorry...

Here is a link to the flyer forum

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

:poke we love pics!:D

[BellaBaby]

I am not sure, I have never given her formula. I got her after she was an adult. I have not seen seizures yet (thank God!) hopefully I can get things under control before that happens though.

[BellaBaby]

I am sending off for this stuff as fast as I can!
Thanks for all of your help.

[gs1]

this is the protocol for mbd... it's geared towards greys etc..not flyers... so the amounts would be a lot less for flyers....

best bet is to phone the members and talk to them ... that can help more than anything....

you may have an emergency situation on your hands...

(i think you do.... because she's not eating... )

hugs... :grouphug

call mrs. skul asap .....


Emergency Treatment for Metabolic Bone Disease (updated 3-31-09)

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.

Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

[pappy1264]

You have gotten great info so far (thank you Gs1 for posting the link so I don't have to retype everything...lol) One other thing I don't believe has been mentioned, it is freeze dried chicken breast. You can get it at Petco, in the dog treats section. It is called 'Prime Taste Treats Freeze Dried Chicken'. Only has one ingredient, Chicken Breast. Good thing is you can put it in their cage and leave it for a few days. Mine don't eat it every day, but they seem to 'know' when they need more protein, and will chow down on it (and since you can leave it in there, makes for a good 'treat' anytime of day or night, that is healthy for them!)

You may want to look into making Boo Balls or the cookie recipe that Kelly made (they are in the nutrition section, I don't have the links off hand), but it will be a way to get FV into her if she won't take it any other way (I had to do this with my adults. Now they eat it in their formula).

You should also put a cuttlebone (the kind you get for parakeets) in their cage. Mine will eat that off and on (again, I think they know when they need something, we just have to make sure they have access to it.) I also keep deer antlers, as well as a dog marrow bone in their cages.

Oh, today, I got Jett to eat eggs. She usually won't touch them, but I found a while ago (quite by accident, she stole a piece while I was making a sandwich), that she loves cheese. So today, I made scrambled eggs, and added just a tiny bit of shredded mozzarella and cheddar cheese and mix it all around. Well, Jett inhaled her eggs today!!!! lol So might be another thing you can try (and again, this is not something you would do every day, you mix it up and offer different proteins. But I give bugs every day pretty much, but just give less if I will be giving some other proteins.)

Good luck and keep us posted. (and yes, call Mrs. Skul, she is wonderful!)

[Mrs Skul]

No time to read the thread! If you need to call me. Please do so. I am PMing my phone to you now.:thumbsup
I just got home from Vet. Christal

[Mrs Skul]

Hi BellaBaby :wave123
I need you to PM your address to me. I have the stuff we talked about ready to send tomorrow! :thumbsup
:thinking Just awaiting your address. Just send it in a PM.
Thanks Christal