Possible Mange -

[Rhapsody]

It looks like Tiny Tim may be getting a case of mange :dono ..... no sure - thats why I am posting here in hopes that one of the more exp rehabbers can help me out.

I've had Tiny Tim and his brother Bambi and Sister Sandy for three weeks and up until about two days ago they were doing as good as three babies that had gone with out their momma for a week could be. There fur and skin has always been a little on the rough side and their ears are rough and beaten up like that of a dogs ears after a case of mites - they are around 7 to 9 weeks old, but a lot smaller for their age than they should be they were skin and bones when I got them. I notice a few days ago that Tiny Tim's under belly skin was starting to look a little reddish then yesterday day I notice two spots on his back that were balding and today they are worse and now there is another spot on his leg..... and he look a little sickly.

What is the proper treatment for MANGE? - should I be using Revolution or Ivermectin - - -> or would a good wash down with Dawn Dish Soap work at this age?

:thankyou

[island rehabber]

For mange, unfortunately you need Rev or Ivermectin -- Dawn only works for fleas in my experience. I would get the Revolution if you can -- much much safer and easier to dose.

[Rhapsody]

Haven't gotten any Revolution yet, will call the vet tomorrow and see if he will give me a tube with out an apt....... but in the mean time I did give all three babies a bath in dawn dish soap as they really needed it being they were all gritty and scaly and now they look better (and prob feel better) after getting a bath..... all three babies are balding now.

Can having mange make them ill? - I ask as Tiny Tim & Sandy have a sick sunken in look on their face (and in the eyes) and they appear to have lost a little weight. They just dont seem to be their usual self since the skin issue started a few days ago...... they are peeing and pooping fine - no problem there, and their diet is good, was on Esbilac, but was recently changed over to Fox Valley and introduced to apples, mushrooms and walnuts.

Thanks for any advice you can offer..... :thankyou

[djarenspace9]

If you can't get Revolution, let me know.
I got some Ivermectin today and was given more than I need
for my new mangy baby squirrel :D
so I may have enough to give you for yours.
I'll need to know their weights to make sure.
See if you can call your vet first thing and let me know.

As far as it making them ill, it certainly is no fun,
but is it possible they just LOOK ill and sunken to you due to the
thinned out hair?

The good news is they clean up real quick once you treat it.
It's almost miraculous, I'm still amazed every time.

[Rhapsody]

is it possible they just LOOK ill and sunken to you due to the thinned out hair?

Possibly...... but its more that just an ill look - they are acting differently as well - they are not their usual hyper fun loving self's... they are sleeping more and more..... they are eating slow and they haven't been sucking their syringe like they usually do, now they sit and wait for me to push the formula into their mouth, they seem shaky / unsteady and their eyes have a sick glassy look to them. The face looks sunken and sick not the body, the body looks (and feels) skinny from possible weight loss as I can feel Tim's & Sandy's ribs again, like when I first got them three weeks ago.... Bambi looks good other than some hair loss and red under skin.

[djarenspace9]

Sounds like they are a bit lethargic.
That would concern me.
I've never had that coincide with mange,
but it is a known sign or symptom.

I'd say treating asap is vital.
I'm not sure which med is fastest,
maybe someone who knows will chime in with advice
by tomorrow morning.

Usually I can get Revolution through my cats' vet.
They rarely ask for an appointment if it's a regular patient.
I know in my full grown squirrel (1lb) she had to get 1 drop,
between the shoulder blades and the treatment was done twice,
I think a month apart.
Not sure if that's the recommended way but it's what a vet had me do!
Not sure how much to use on a baby.

[Rhapsody]

Usually I can get Revolution through my cats' vet.
They rarely ask for an appointment if it's a regular patient.


I will call my VET - ASAP in the morning and I take my cats to the SPCA - they are due for their yearly shots at the end of March so I will see if they can refill their Revolution before then.

Do I need to get Revolution for cat or dog / pup or kitten? - or does it matter.

[Rhapsody]

Do I need to get Revolution for cat or dog / pup or kitten? - or does it matter.
:bump :bump :bump

[island rehabber]

With squirrels you should always use the "kitten" dosage of anything. :)

[Rhapsody]

With squirrels you should always use the "kitten" dosage of anything. :)

Ok - :thankyou
Wanted to make sure I got the right stuff when I start making calls this morning.

[island rehabber]

Rhapsody, I'm a little worried about the overall condition of your babies, the way you've described them. Could they possibly be dehydrated? "Sunken" looking, and glassy eyes is a common symptom of dehydration....how are their poops?

[Rhapsody]

Their poops are normal, but I did give them a dose of homemade pedialyte last night before I put them to bed and I will give them another dose this morning..... :thumbsup
... i was thinking the same thing.

[island rehabber]

Sometimes they will get that way for what seems like no apparent reason. You'll need to step back, rehydrate them for one day (Pdialyte in between feedings) and then they're fine. :)

[Rhapsody]

Will DO - :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Pierre]

Hopefully it is some dehydration, but remember, mites can be blood suckers and this--in tiny babies--could cause a bit of anemia which could make then have lower energy.

[djarenspace9]

With squirrels you should always use the "kitten" dosage of anything. :)

Yes, I was given one that's for kittens & puppies...it's .25ml.

[Rhapsody]

Question.... How Contagious is Mange due to Mites to the other Squirrels in the house?
What Specific Precautions should I be taking other than good hand washing when dealing with the different squirrel cages?

[Pierre]

Very contagious. Mites are spread by direct contact or via fomites [inanimate objects--such as bedding, fleece, you, your shirt, etc].

[Rhapsody]

Very contagious. Mites are spread by direct contact or via fomites [inanimate objects--such as bedding, fleece, you, your shirt, etc].
With that in mimd...... should I go a head and treat all seven baby squirrels with the revolutions just to be safe? :dono

[UDoWhat]

With that in mimd...... should I go a head and treat all seven baby squirrels with the revolutions just to be safe? :dono
I would. I made that mistake one (ONE) time. They all had it. And I thought I was so careful. :thinking

[djarenspace9]

I too don't take any chances and treat everyone.
If not, you run the risk of reinfestation all over again.

[Rhapsody]

Ok - I will treat all the Squirrels.... :thankyou

[djarenspace9]

Hi Carolyn!

Just checking in on how your babies are doing.

I occassionally get babies with mange, but I'll tell you
last year there were so many it was ridiculous.
All of them receovered quickly and beautifully once they were treated.

I hope they are feeling better! :tilt

[Rhapsody]

Hi Carolyn!
Just checking in on how your babies are doing.

They have gotten some of their energy back after being treated and given pedialyte... but I have noticed flaky ears (which i am putting mineral oil on) and a foul smell coming from Tiny Tim & Sandy that I'm aware can happens with mange - so am I right in assuming the smell will subside as the mange heals? Bambi is the better of the three - still keeping his weight on and only has mild hair loss.

[djarenspace9]

so am I right in assuming the smell will subside as the mange heals?
I'm not sure about that, I have a weak sense of smell (it's a blessing sometimes!).
You may want to wipe them down with a washcloth once a day,
a bit of grooming from mama won't hurt and they will probably find is soothing!

[Rhapsody]

You may want to wipe them down with a washcloth once a day,

Will an unscented natural baby wipe work as well - I dont want to wash the Revolution away and I have a two year old granddaughter thats always around so I have plenty of baby wipes.

[djarenspace9]

Will an unscented natural baby wipe work as well - I dont want to wash the Revolution away and I have a two year old granddaughter thats always around so I have plenty of baby wipes.
I really don't know about wipes, if they are safe to use or not,
but whatever you wipe them with you could just avoid the area you applied the Revolution.

I know with my cats they still groom themselves, so having a topical
treatment is not an issue as long as they don't lick that spot,
which is why the point between the shoulderblades is recommended.

[Rhapsody]

I know with my cats they still groom themselves, so having a topical
treatment is not an issue as long as they don't lick that spot,
which is why the point between the shoulderblades is recommended.
Thats where I got them....... :thumbsup :thumbsup
speaking of cats (i got cat wipes as well) :rotfl :rotfl

[Rhapsody]

I'll go find my fluffiest softest washcloth for the little guys. :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Rhapsody]

Just realized I never posted any of the pics I took of the babies baths in Dawn Dish Soap..... Enjoy!! (i wore gloves with Bambi as he was the strongest / healthiest of the three and I was not sure how much fight he might put up) - didn't want to worry about scratches while trying to gently wash and hold onto him.


Tiny Tim - to weak to protest
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BathTime_Mites007.jpg


Sandy - squeaked & complained the entire time
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BathTime_Mites008.jpg


Bambi - a proven fighter & some times biter
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BathTime_Mites011.jpg

[Rhapsody]

Can a squirrel die from Mange or from the blood sucking Mites that often comes with it?
.... I ask as I am really concerned about Sandy.

[squirrelfriend]

They can become anemic from blood loss. I think that young ones would be more suseptiple to complications. I have never had one die on me yet from mange since it is so easily cured. Probably mosts deaths with mange would be due to other ailments added on to it because of their weakend state. Other parasites may add onto their problems. Starvation from being too weak to get food. pnumonia from exposure to the elements (because of no hair).

I guess what it comes down to is how bad off they already were when you got them. If treated right away and if they are not too bad off already they should be ok.

[Rhapsody]

Question.....
How long does it take for their hair to grow back once it has fallen out from Mange with Mites?
How will I know if I need to retreat Tiny Tim and Bambi with Revolution again in a month?

[Rhapsody]

Question.....
How long does it take for their hair to grow back once it has fallen out from Mange with Mites?
How will I know if I need to retreat Tiny Tim and Bambi with Revolution again in a month?
B.U.M.P.
................ I am asking as they are scratching again and they appear to be losing more hair. Any one? :dono

[djarenspace9]

I only used Revolution once, and the vet had me retreat once (at 4weeks).
At that point we stopped because it was determined she did not have any parasites after all with results of labwork.
So I'm not sure if it would have required more treatment after that.

I use Ivermectin for mange and treat twice, 10 days apart.
In severe cases a 3rd treatment maybe if necessary.

Some squirrels seem to recover quickly and regrow hair right away,
others take longer to fill back in, especially if they lost tail hair.

Do you have before/after pics to compare?

[Rhapsody]

Do you have before/after pics to compare?
Yes, I will post them later on tonight - you will be able to see they have lost more hair since the treatment.

[Rhapsody]

Here are the PICS.......
1. Pic of squirrel with NO mange or hair loss
2. Pic of the Mange 3 days before Treatment
3. Pic of the Mange 10 days after Treatment


Bambi

Pic #1
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/Squirrelsboys005.jpg

Pic #2
No Pic - Showed No Hair Loss

Pic #3
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BambiMange002.jpg



Tiny Tim

Pic #1
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/Squirrelsboys003.jpg

Pic #2
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/Sick_Mange008.jpg

Pic #3
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/TinyTimMange009.jpg

[Rhapsody]

Here are other PICS of BAMBI - (taken tonight)

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BambiMange001.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BambiMange002.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BambiMange005.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BambiMange006.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/BambiMange004.jpg

[Rhapsody]

Here are other PICS of TINY TIM - (taken tonight)

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/TinyTimMange009.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/TinyTimMange008.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/TinyTimMange012.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/TinyTimMange004.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/TinyTimMange002.jpg

[djarenspace9]

It would be nice if you could get the attention of some of the
more experienced rehabbers, especially those that use Revolution.
:poke

I am only familiar with how Ivermectin works, and usually by the
second dose (which is in 10days) they are showing some signs
of hair growth, especially on the torso.
Maybe it takes a bit longer with Revolution. :thinking

A few other details that may help someone assess...
Are they itchy/scratching?
How is their demeanor, appetite, weight etc?

Let's see if I bounce hard enough here someone will reply?!

:multi :multi :multi :multi :multi :multi :multi :multi :multi

[Rhapsody]

I am only familiar with how Ivermectin works, and usually by the second dose (which is in 10days) they are showing some signs
of hair growth, especially on the torso.
Maybe it takes a bit longer with Revolution. :thinking

A few other details that may help someone assess...
Are they itchy/scratching?
How is their demeanor, appetite, weight etc?

That is one of the questions I'm needing answered - Do they need a 2nd dose of Revolution?

They are not itching / scratching.... their demeanor and appetite has returned to normal - they have put the weight they lost back on, but they continue to lose hair and are showing more patchy / bald spots.

[mpetys]

That is one of the questions I'm needing answered - Do they need a 2nd dose of Revolution?

They are not itching / scratching.... their demeanor and appetite has returned to normal - they have put the weight they lost back on, but they continue to lose hair and are showing more patchy / bald spots.

I have never dealt with mange, but when one of my baby squirrels had maggots, I was told to use Revolution. When I found maggots in his rectum 24 - 36 hour later, I was told that I could dose him again with one drop. This has been my only experience with using Revolution on squirrels so maybe some of the others who use it may know more and be able to answer your question.

[Rhapsody]

Guess I will have to go find the ppl that have exp with Mange my self since they are not finding me...... :thinking
Treated Bambi & Tiny Tim on March 3rd - Need to know if I should treat again and if I do - When?

[djarenspace9]

I know that sr&bt has been dealing with a serious case of mange.
Maybe she can advise.
As long as they are good otherwise, I would not worry too much about
the continued hair loss.
It may be one of those "it gets worse before it gets better" situations.
Maybe that hair needs to shed for new growth.

But....better go looking for some answers just to be safe!
Maybe PM a few people who's experience and advice you would trust.

Please do post what you find out.
I'd like to know myself, just in case I find myself without Ivermectin
and need to use Revolution one day.

[Rhapsody]

Maybe PM a few people who's experience and advice you would trust.

Please do post what you find out.
I'd like to know myself, just in case I find myself without Ivermectin
and need to use Revolution one day.
I sent SquirrelFriend a PM after I came across this thread
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26752&highlight=Mange

and... Yes, I will post my findings once I find it - lol
I like to help others out with any thing I am personaly am able to learn from :thumbsup

[squirrelfriend]

Hi, got your PM. You asked in your thread how do you know if you should redose in 4 weeks. I think it is every two weeks. Whether there are signs or not I would redose. The meds will kill of the mites but there may be eggs that have not hatched yet or a few surviors so You want to make sure that you redose no matter what.

Do you give sunlight or sunlamp light to them? There is also a condition called kitten fur that makes their hair fall out. I had one do that once and the pattern was the same as your guys. With kitten fur syndrome there is not rough or crusty skin though. If you are not getting them sunlight please do so as this can lead to MBD and death.

As for continued hair loss it will happen for a while. A lot of the fur will fall out (if mange). The skin has already been irritated so the hair falls out. Within a week or two you will see a 5 o'clock shadow comming in. Full out hair growth will be complete in a couple of months.

Best of luck. Be sure to pm me with any more questions. I am glad to be of any help.

[Rhapsody]

You all are NOT going to believe the change in these guys..... they look AMAZING
Thanks for all the HELP!! (and) Thanks to Fox Valley & Revolution


PICS - PICS - PICS - Are you Ready to see some PICS?


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BAMBI
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/NewGrowthB012.jpg


TINY TIM
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/NewGrowthTT006.jpg


TINY TIM & BAMBI
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/Rhapsody_1/B%20T%20S/NewGrowthBTT003.jpg


:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Scooterzmom]

WOW! So glad they overcame the problem. WTG mama Raps! :thumbsup