Too Cold???

[Buddie-Ann]

I need some release advice. Buddie-Ann has been in her outdoor release cage for two weeks she is 17 weeks old. The cage is 4' x 8' built around the tree in my backyard. She also has a nesting box built out of wood and filled with warm bedding material up the sides, bottom and lots of extra pieces which she has torn into soft fluffy stuff. I was not planning on releasing her from the cage until next spring when the weather breaks. We have had some crazy weather everything from lots of rain, sunshine to actual light snowfall. It has been in the low 30's and tonight could possibly drop to 20's. I'm in Oregon. Do you think she will be okay in her setup, I'm concerned she will get to cold. She seems to be quite unaffected and happy until this morning I noticed she was on the bottom of the cage chewing at the wire and has done more of it during the day. Is she trying to tell me something??When I went out this morning, she came right down the tree to talk up a storm at me, we chatted for awhile and then she got right down to her favorite pastime, eating!! So I think I might just be a nervous nelly MOM and concerned about her being to cold but I know I have to remember without me she would be up in a tree in nest made of branches...Any words or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Buddie-Ann's MOM, Nick.

[Gabe]

Here's my feelings on it - I'm sure you will get lots of other responses too. Read them all, and make your decision from all of our thoughts.
At 17 weeks she is surely ready to get out of there. You can choose to keep her for the winter in a cage and provide lots of warm things. She won't be as mobile burning calories and therefore staying warm if she is confined. Loose, she will build the correct nest that she needs, she may even steal a few things from her old bedroom, she will be active and keep her body temp up. Think of yourself outside in the cold sitting in a chair or outside stacking wood or shoveling snow.

[Critter_Queen]

I am wintering five squirrels in an outdoor enclosure that is 9x9x9 feet. I have six nest boxes in there, branches to climb, screened walls to scale...and I have to say they get a LOT of excercise in there.

IF (big IF, since I don't know about Oregon winters) there are still lots of leaves on the trees where you are, it's ok to release her. However, if there are no leaves (like here in Iowa, we have about 5% of trees that still have leaves, but those leaves are dead and brown and falling off...all other trees are pines, evergreens or bare) I wouldn't release her until spring. She is chewing on the cage because she wants out, in my opinion. But if there is no way for her to make her own nest, it's not the right time for her to go.

Give her lots of toys and branches and keep doing what you are doing.

And though I understand the analogy, I disagree that a squirrel in an outdoor enclosure for the winter would be the equivalent of a human sitting outside all winter in a coat. We aren't made to be outside 100% of the time...squirrels are. They sleep during the nightime hours (in Iowa that's about 14 hours a day right now) so they must be able to stay warm while not moving much...

I guess you have to weigh which is going to help her survive the winter. (which is the goal, right?)

[halo]

Im with Critter Queen. I have overwintered plenty of squirrels. To me it is better safe then sorry. Winter can be unforgiving at times, especially to a squirrel that isnt used to foraging on their own and havent established their territory. Mine have never gotten fat either. They usually bounce around the cage all Winter long!


Just go with your gut feeling and u cant go wrong. :)

Halo

[Apple Corps]

Our California crew of foxers have become little chunkers with all we feed them - AND they are and have been free in the trees since birth. How they put on the weight is surprising given how much they go up, down, through and around the trees all day. We will be in the low to mid 20s by early morning and now understand the thick coat of fur they started growing in mid-October - they knew what was headed their way. This was one of the hottest summers on record in the central valley and is starting off to be a really COLD winter for our area. Super hot + super cold = average temps :-0

No experience on my part wintering the little cuties - but I would be inclined to keep her through the winter until plenty of green leaves show up in the spring - it is just about December 1 - sound kind of late to go out now.

[thundersquirrel]

hmmm i'd let her go if you give her access to the cage all winter. as long as she has a nest box, with some nice towels and linens in there for bedding, and as long as you keep feeding her, i think you'll be alright.

but you MUST stay on to your responsibilities then, every day, until spring. basically putting food in the cage every day. in addition, i would close the cage at night, once she comes back. if she is at all attatched to you, she'll come back. heck, it's her home. just because she wants to run around a bit doesn't mean she's won't come back at night. and she needs the experience. if you can't trust her with her life now, when will you ever trust her?

unless, of course, you feel like she's too naive to be let go yet. you should see her nesting, foraging, jumping, climbing, and alert for predators every day. test her by scaring her (not too badly, though). she should immediately and swifty either go as far up as she can or go to her nest box. preferably she'll just go as high as she can, because raccoons can get into nest boxes sometimes.

if she's lacking these vital skills, you could wait a little longer. but it sounds to me like the wild is calling to her, and if it's what she really wants, at her age, you gotta respect that.

[DubShack]

Not that I have any releasing experience, but I agree with TS. We're just north of you, and we've been single digit to double digit below temps the last week. We've had winter advisories to keep out pets indoors, but the squirrels are out there as active as ever. I noticed Molly has grown this thick black fur between her normal fur, it's almost taken over her normal coloration. But they've all chunked up nicely, and I continue to feed them, and they continue to come. And these guys are all wild, have been all their lives.

Point being, I'd be more worried about predators than the cold, as TS said.

[Gabe]

preferably she'll just go as high as she can, because raccoons can get into nest boxes sometimes.


Here's a trick I use. I have raccoons in my woods, so when I open release cages, I don't open the door. Instead I cut a small 3"X3" hole at shoulder height in the cage, my squirrels come and go all winter, I never have to check to see if they're all in before closing the door, and those %#&*@ bluejays don't steal their food all day long.
When I'm done, I use a few small cable ties and put a piece of hardware cloth over the hole until next time.
The important thing with this is never scoot them out the door, they need to find that hole to get out, or they won't find it to get in.
Using this technique, I never have to worry about wintering over and can always let them make the choice. I probably should have mentioned this in my first post, it would have made more sense.

[Momma Squirrel]

Gabe, that is a great idea, Squerly and I used the same technique and it worked well. I use to always worry about them finding the hole to get back in (of course Squerly says I worry about everything anyway). They always found it and it was alot of fun watching them find it to go out as well as to go in. Very entertaining, plus I was there just in case they couldn't find it :shakehead

[island rehabber]

Here's a trick I use. I have raccoons in my woods, so when I open release cages, I don't open the door. Instead I cut a small 3"X3" hole at shoulder height in the cage, my squirrels come and go all winter, I never have to check to see if they're all in before closing the door, and those %#&*@ bluejays don't steal their food all day long.
When I'm done, I use a few small cable ties and put a piece of hardware cloth over the hole until next time.
The important thing with this is never scoot them out the door, they need to find that hole to get out, or they won't find it to get in.
Using this technique, I never have to worry about wintering over and can always let them make the choice. I probably should have mentioned this in my first post, it would have made more sense.

Yes that's exactly what we have at the Nature Center where I released LB, Nero and Mikey. Three large (10 x 5 x 5) enclosures with double door openings that are locked unless a human needs to enter. Squirrel access is thru a small hole cut in the actual cage wire, and for the first 3-4 days the little trap door is kept shut with copper wire....later it is opened so they can find their way out and come and go as they please. So, no raccoon problems. A downy woodpecker did get stuck in one of the cages last week, though...his mate was there for hours waiting for him up on top but he couldn't figure out how to get back out the same way he came in. (birdbrain. :D) I opened the bottom door -- he still couldn't figure it out. Finally had to climb up on some cinderblocks and unhitch the top door to let the dumb birdie out.

[Momma Squirrel]

IR we get those bird brains too all the time, Squerly has to open the big door and try to get them out. Sometimes they will have mates waiting for them too. Kind of like when they fly into the garage and can't figure out how to get back out, duh there is an opening 24 feet wide :shakehead

When we had the babies to be released we always had one that was the head of the group, he would not come in until everyone else was inside, it was so cool to watch. He was BIG brother and took care of everyone. I sure miss those days.

[Buddie-Ann]

Thank you all once again for all the good information. It has been over a week since I posted about the cold. The night we were expecting freezing rain I did break down and bring her in. She was really clingy and lovey and she slept quite peacfully snuggled in her blanket next to me. However, I realized that doing that is not good for her. So I immediately put her out the next morning. I am not worried about the cold anymore, she seems quite okay with it, I am concerned at her chewing on the wire to get out but after reviewing everything I am most concerned with other squirrels. There is a huge squirrel that continually is coming and checking out her cage he sits up on the top and climbs up and down the sides...Buddie-Ann doesn't really seem to pay much attention and that concerns me..there are a few other smaller squirrels that showed up yesterday and they chatted back and forth but the big one showed up and chased them away. I like the idea of a small hole for her to go through but long and short is I am terrified that the other squirrels particularly this big one who is twice if not three times bigger than her will do her harm. I can't bear to think that I could go out and find her wounded or worse because she isn't up to speed on protecting herself. I'm afraid I need alot of hand holding on this..

[Gabe]

That's what we're here for, hand holding, you'll get plenty from us.
As Island posted elsewhere; the othe squirrels may be more interested in the food than your baby. They have a remarkable sense of smell.
When we introduce squirrels to each other, we put them side by side in cages and they can get to know each other, so I think the interaction should be ok.
I've seen squirrels fight, but I doubt it leads to mortal wounds. Maybe someone else will have some input here, but I've never received a squirrel that was chewed up by another squirrel, beavers will fight to the death over territories, but squirrels have a pecking order, and everyone adjusts after a while.

[Buddie-Ann]

So you don't think Gabe that another squirrel could technically take over her territory and boot her out of her nesting box as well as her cage (which is remember 4' x 8' tall and the top is attached to the tree itself to enclose it). I think that is what I'm most worried about once she goes out will she be able to get back in

[Gabe]

Buddie-Ann, have you read the thread under General Squirrel Discussions titled "Free at Last!!!" Buddy'sMom, has documented, almost in novel style, the comings and going of Buddy, as well as the flip flops of her heart. None could say it better.
There are no 100% guarantees, we can only know that after having rescued them, taken care of, raised and loved them that we are giving them their second chance at life when we release them.
We will be here for moral support, to laugh and cry with you as you watch Buddie-Ann's antics in her natural environment.
Post often, because we are now on the edge of our seats with suspense.

[DubShack]

Out of the seven I've got hanging around, I've seen plenty of fights, some rather vigerious ones to that involved a blocks distance or more. But I have yet to see serious injuries. And they all seem to know where the food is, and I've seen them all come back. In fact I've got a good half hour video I'm working on right now involving them all coming back at the same time and fighting over the yard. I was expecting them all weekend and not one showed up... Then this morning, everyone came. I would imagine it will probably be like that with yours. He may chase your baby off, but it will come back. Eventually it will be big enough to chase the other one off.

[Buddy'sMom]

Buddie-Ann, we certainly can relate to what you are going through. In case you don't have time or inclination to sort through the "Buddy saga" here is what I can tell you, based on a sample of just one squirrel:

Buddy also has a visitor that's much bigger and apparently used to being the alpha squirrel. He climbed all over the release cage while Buddy was inside and we were afraid of the same things. Now that the doors are open (it has a small squirrel-opening on each side), the big guy goes in and out as he pleases -- but only until the nutbox has been emptied each day (and we've never seen more than one inside at a time). When the nuts are gone, he has no further interest in the cage. I've seen him look into the nestbox in the release cage, but there's nothing to eat in there and he doesn't seem interested.

Buddy also has a dulpicate nestbox in the tree. When we put it up, we put nuts inside to make sure Buddy would be interested in going in. The first day, the big squirrel went in -- and out, etc. until the nuts were gone. We've seen him go in briefly, but again, it doesn't seem interesting to him. We do think he has recently moved into a nest in a hollow at the top of the tree.

I'm sure there are wilds that do take over nestboxes (and someone no doubt will chime in here to say so), but my theory is this: If there's nothing of interest (like nuts), a wild squirrel wouldn't necessarily recognize a cage or nestbox as a suitable place to live. It doesn't look, feel or smell like a typical squirrel nest. A hand-raised squirrel on the other hand recognizes a nice comfy box structure, sniffs and feels familiar blankets, etc. -- all of which say "welcome home" to your squirrel but are foreign to a wild. (And we all know how well they do with new things!)

On the chasing: there has been much of that, but there doesn't seem to be any interest in CATCHING. Sometimes when the big squirrel caught up, he merely leapfrogged over Buddy and then went someplace else. And Buddy has learned to get out of the way -- once he's out of sight, the big guy loses interest. Sometimes Buddy just takes his nut to the other side of the tree so he can eat in peace. I think they've mostly worked it out, but reasonable minds differ -- Buddy'sDad thinks he's being a bit bullied (and therefore qualifies for extra treats from BD :D ).

Hope this helps. It also helps -- A LOT -- to use TSB as a reality check. Everyone's been wonderful in helping us through this, both with advice and with hand-holding! :)

[Gabe]

Buddy's Mom, well said. You sound like a true objectional rehabber! :)

[skwerls_R_soft]

It sure is cold out tonight...in the 20's! I am so worried about Skipper. the last 2 mornings I visited him in the AM to feed him (since DH is on a road-trip) and he just quivers and shakes. His winter coat is full and he is well-fed and not a bit on the skinny side and he does act normal besides the shivering. I feel so bad that he doesn't have another (live!)squirrel to snuggle up with (he has a stuffed squirrel in his nestbox along with plenty of bedding)
As soon as DH gets back from his trip we will hook up his indoor-outdoor cage, but for now I am afraid he will be just too cold overnight.
*sigh* . Am I just being a worry wart?

[Gabe]

I would be worried if he was shivering. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring him in at night. What are you using for nesting material. I use wool for singletons.

[skwerls_R_soft]

He has a hodgepodge of nesting material....tissues, leaves, polar fleece, fake fur, pieces of t-shirts, and a furry stuffed squirrel. His box is 1/4" plywood and dry inside. I fed him this morning and there was frost on the ground (coldest night yet so far) and he was reluctant to come out of his nest. He popped out, grabbed a nut and popped right back in there. HE definitely does not enjoy the cold mornings.

When he gets back tonight from his trip, I will put the pressure on DH to move his cage so we can connect it to his indoor setup. We made a huge one inside and put a cat door in the wall. (See "Skipper's Moving" http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593)
Meanwhile it sounds like I should get some wool for his nest.Do you use wool stuffing of some sort? Any suggestions where to get it fairly quickly?

[Critter_Queen]

I would be worried if he was shivering. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring him in at night. What are you using for nesting material. I use wool for singletons.

Wool, fleece and thermal underwear (the fuzzy kind) are all really good options for winter nest box materials. i would be worried if mine were shivering, too...That seems very odd... Poor widdle 'quirrel...

[Gabe]

I use wool from sheep, that has been spun, then I knit or crochet it into blankets. You could look for an army surplus store and buy a huge wool blanket, cut it up and that would work. The important thing is not to fold it nice and tidy and put it in the nest box. Instead fluff it and put it in there in a ball so the squirrel can burrow into it and pull it around himself. I also was lucky enough to find a down filled baby blanket, that is everyone's favorite. Maybe a down vest from a thrift shop? Again, wad it up and put it in the nest box.