squirrel not eating, vomiting, not wanting to be touched, slowing down ... ? mbd????

[gs1]

without permission from rainy9 i'm requoting her last post....

(sorry i panick easily).....

it just looks really bad.....

the squirrel didn't eat much yesterday either .....

here is her thread....


http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24321&page=5




The only thing I could think of as to why she's so sick is either she has a stomach bug, or she ate something toxic. [/U]

I stayed up all night hydrating her every 2-3 hours. All she would eat is some raisin bran last night and this morning. This afternoon she ate a bit more raisin bran and decided to venture out of her nest. I was glad to see her up but it was still very sad.

I just got done feeding her some fox valley to see if that will help. She ate 8cc's very eagerly and is now venturing slowly around the room.


I'm going to get my husband to pick up some tums on his way home. Will also order the nessicary calcium supplements when we order the HHB's.

Thanks for lookin out for them jo. I think you may have just saved another squirrel. :Love_Icon [/COLOR][/B]


this is from yesterdays post.....



Now, back to green while I write about my sick babin.
Maru didn't eat anything yesterday except for a chunk of banana that I gave her, in the evening, to calm her stomach. She needed to eat SOMETHING!

Today she got up for a little bit. I thought maybe she was feeling better. She stayed out long enough to eat a chunk of apple and three grapes and then went back to bed. while I write about my sick babin.


Maru didn't eat anything yesterday except for a chunk of banana that I gave her, in the evening, to calm her stomach. She needed to eat SOMETHING! I didn't realise that she was not eating

because she was sick until she projectile vomited all over the place. :shakehead

Today she got up for a little bit. I thought maybe she was feeling better. She stayed out long enough to eat a chunk of apple and three grapes and then went back to bed.

I think she may be running a fever because her hair was poofed out on end and she didn't seem to like me touching her. She wasn't wanting to move around much, just sitting on top of her blankets with her face bowed down into the covers. No attempt to burrow down into them...just sitting there.

I unhooked her nest from the top of the cage and took her into the livingroom where it was quiet and there was a bit more sun shining in on that side of the house. I have this idea that a little sunshine will make you feel somewhat better when you are sick. Has worked for me in the past.

She willingly took 10 cc's of hydration fluid in about 30 minutes. It seemed to perk her up a tad. Enough for her to take her face out of the blankies and sit and stare at me for awhile. Then she pulled together enough energy to burrow into the covers. She is resting now.

I'll continue with the fluids since that seems to help. I hope she didn't get into something she shouldn't have...and I hope she pulls through this. This just sucks. I want my Maru back. I want her to climb all over me and tear my hands up! Even little Totoro is getting more mileage than Maru today. [/COLOR]


( i may have mangled the posts but i'm having trouble with my computer... but hopefully you'll be able to understand better if you go to her thread... thank you)

i have mangled the posts... she also posts this.....


I stayed up all night hydrating her every 2-3 hours. All she would eat is some raisin bran last night and this morning. This afternoon she ate a bit more raisin bran and decided to venture out of her nest. I was glad to see her up but it was


still very sad. She was tried to climb up my back, but it seemed so labored ans slow...not to mention clumsy. Very clumsy. Had to support her alot. :thankyou

[NaturesGift]

Try offering her hydration!

Also important if this is Mbd I would give her some molasses let her take as much S she will eat

Feel her ears Are they burning hot? Is it possible to get her temp? I use A normal thermometer on my kids her temp should be between 98 and 102

If she has a fever you may need to get her some childrens motrin I can help you dose her

Hydration and calcium!!

[NaturesGift]

What was her diet lie before she began puking?

[gs1]

thanks NG...

how does a normal person take a squirrels temperature without hurting the squirrel?

is it a baby rectal thermometer?
Do you burrito?
does it take 2 people?
do you lubricate it?

:thankyou


*normal means non-rehabber....:D

[gs1]

What was her diet lie before she began puking?



taken from her thread:


I'm going to tell you their diet for a typical day, and most will probably not like what they read. The amount of fruit they ingest far outweighs the amount of veggies. So far, the only veggie they will eat is broccolie. And then there is mushroom. And tomato if you want to count it as a veggetable. I've tried just about every green thing from the store and they turn their little noses up at it. My husband is getting tired of buying all these strange veggetable...only to have them thrown in the trash. I don't blame him. But I need to find SOMETHING of a veggetable that they will eat! Damnit!

Okay, here's what they will eat in a day between the 2 of them:

5 clusters of broccolie (the tiny individual heads, not a whole thing! lol)
2 to 3 whole mushrooms
1/3 of a large tomato OR 2 to 3 cherry tomatoes
10 red grapes
1/2 a banana
1/2 of either apple or orange
1/2 avacado (only every third day)

Maru used to eat sugar snap peas, snow peas, and green beans like crazy. Then she just stopped. Dunno why.

[momma2boo]

I posted this on the nursery thread:


Begin to treat her for MBD ... it won't hurt her if she isn't suffering from MBD, but if she is you will begin to see a big improvement in her. Is there anything she could've gotten into that would've made her sick?

Emergency Treatment for Metabolic Bone Disease (updated 3-31-09)

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.

Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

Boo Ball Recipe:

(you can make exchanges: pecans; walnuts; almonds; sesame seeds are high in calcium ... whichever rodent block you prefer, mine get Harlan Teklad 2018; and a babyfood fruit of their choosing; and of course Fox Valley formula)

Here is the recipe and instructions (it is equal amounts of powdered rodent block, FV dry formula, crushed pecans):

50 grams rodent block (crushed to a fine powder) I use two (25 grams each) , Kaytee Forti-diet and Harlan Teklad 2014 or 2018.

50 grams powdered Fox Valley squirrel formula

50 grams crushed pecans

Mix ingredients together.

Mix organic baby food fruit (100 grams) and 20 grams Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil together and warm for 20 seconds in the microwave. Add this wet mixture to your dry ingredients until well blended. It will seem very wet. (I use Earth's Best Organic Apples & Plums).

Put in the refrigerator for 5 hours (Overnight is even better). This lets it set up. It softens/moistens the rodent block and dissolves the FV.

Once you are ready to serve it take out about a 1/2 tsp (5 grams) of the mixture and roll is in your hands but not so much that it will melt the coconut oil. Give it to your squirrel. This recipe feeds two squirrels for about a week.

***Mollasses is high in calcium as well and they like it so you might want to offer that too along with the emergency treatment of MBD***

[momma2boo]

If she has a fever you may need to get her some childrens motrin I can help you dose her


I was told to use infant motrin back when Boo was sick.

[NaturesGift]

Yeah when Tremble had a fever I lubricated a Childs rectal thermometer

Justput the metal tip part in

I did it myself with no help but Trembles weird and overly passive this kid may take 2 ppl

[gs1]

possible age....

I think they were born 1st august 2010

they were 2 weeks old and she posted the 30th of august she'd had them for 2 weeks.

aprx age: 6months

[NaturesGift]

I was told to use infant motrin back when Boo was sick.
Either is safe u can also dose Down adult motrin it's just WAY more work
Same meds just different potency

[gs1]

Yeah when Tremble had a fever I lubricated a Childs rectal thermometer

Justput the metal tip part in

I did it myself with no help but Trembles weird and overly passive this kid may take 2 ppl


tremble :D :Love_Icon he's not a normal squirrel lol


... she'll probably need a burito and 6 people!!!

is there any other way to tell body temperature? an ear digital thermometer?

would there be a fever with mbd?

would that mean that she shouldn't use the heating pad?

[momma2boo]

Either is safe u can also dose Down adult motrin it's just WAY more work
Same meds just different potency

Yes, that is why we used the infant ... way easier to dose. Not as easy to see .0__ ml :D

[momma2boo]

How about taking it axillary (under her arm)? You'll need to add a degree to the temp. Just a thought.

[NaturesGift]

tremble :D :Love_Icon he's not a normal squirrel lol


... she'll probably need a burito and 6 people!!!

is there any other way to tell body temperature? an ear digital thermometer?

would there be a fever with mbd?

would that mean that she shouldn't use the heating pad?

When tremble had a fever I offered him the choice of a heating pad.

Can you have her feel her ears?

I'm not sure about an ear thermometer never tried one

Dunno if Mbd symptoms include fever

If she has a fever I would think it wasn't Mbd but giving calcium is a good just incase

[NaturesGift]

How about taking it axillary (under her arm)? You'll need to add a degree to the temp. Just a thought.

Worth a try!! Great idea!

[Mrs Skul]

You need to get the heating pad out and under where she is sleeping. Half under and half off.
Have you been giving her any FoxVally In yogurt??? :dono Are you feeding and FoxVally formula as a treat. About 1 to 2 cc a day?? :thinking
Are you feeding any Squirrel block? (Henry's Healthy Block or Rat block???) Are the Squirrels eating any Nuts?? Have you tried ButterNutSquash? Have you try Cucumbers, SnowPeas, Asparagus,Any of the squash family? Try nuking the veg or steaming them. You need to stop feeding so much fruit. That is to muck. A chunk of apple OR 2 grapes a day only. Not at the same time.
PS I have not read all this thread. I posted this on the other ones. Start giving them some FV.:thumbsup

[Rainy9]

Sorry I'm late. Thanks for posting for me gs1.

Okay, so now I'm confused too with my own old posts, so I'll summarize just incase we missed anything.

6 months old.

Diet consists of: broccolli, mushrooms, tomato, grapes, orange, apple, banana, avacado.

Haven't eaten FV for 2 to 2.5 months.
Haven't eaten HHB's for 2 months


Friday she did not eat.
Vomited alot.
Ate a small chunk of banana. Slept. Gave hydration.

Saturday ate a few grapes and went back to bed for the rest of the day. Didn't want to move very much.
Fur poofed out.
Grunts when I touch her.
Cries when you touch her belly.
Ate small amount of rasin bran at end of day.
Continued with hydration througout day and night.

Sunday ate a bit more rasin bran in morning.
Still down.
Slept.
Ate more bran at afternoon time.
Decided to get out of bed.
Still giving hydration. Gave FV.
Ate 18 cc's FV throughout the day.
She wandered the room for the remainder of the day.
Very slow. Climbed where she could manage.
Not very coordinated.
Almost dissoriented.
Seemed to improve very slightly as day wore on.

Got some tums in her but she has already settled in for bed so I cant see if it is helping till tommorow.

Heating pad is under half her nest on low.

She doesn't seem overly warm today.
She did yesterday.
Today she actualy seemed to be lower temp than normal.
On a normal day she practicly radiates heat.

I'm still not sure whether this is MBD or something toxic was eaten. I guess it can't hurt to treat for both: lots of hydration fluids OR calcium. ?????????

[momma2boo]

lots of hydration fluids OR calcium. ?????????

YES! I would do both and continue with the FV. I would add the FV to plain or vanilla full fat yogurt. Stoneyfield Farms has a plain vanilla, full fat, organic yogurt ... it's a BIG hit with my fuzzers.

[Rainy9]

I have tried all of the foods you mentioned except the butternut squash. I will take the fruits out of the diet for now so that they will be forced to eat the veggies. I will try steaming them. FV will be back in the mix also. I quit giving it to them awhile back because they refused it. I guess they were just so spoiled with the fruits, they didn't care for it anymore. HHB's are on the way.


You need to get the heating pad out and under where she is sleeping. Half under and half off.
Have you been giving her any FoxVally In yogurt??? :dono Are you feeding and FoxVally formula as a treat. About 1 to 2 cc a day?? :thinking
Are you feeding any Squirrel block? (Henry's Healthy Block or Rat block???) Are the Squirrels eating any Nuts?? Have you tried ButterNutSquash? Have you try Cucumbers, SnowPeas, Asparagus,Any of the squash family? Try nuking the veg or steaming them. You need to stop feeding so much fruit. That is to muck. A chunk of apple OR 2 grapes a day only. Not at the same time.
PS I have not read all this thread. I posted this on the other ones. Start giving them some FV.:thumbsup

[Rainy9]

YES! I would do both and continue with the FV. I would add the FV to plain or vanilla full fat yogurt. Stoneyfield Farms has a plain vanilla, full fat, organic yogurt ... it's a BIG hit with my fuzzers.

Stoneyfield was also a hit with mine when they were teensey weensey. Will do again. :thumbsup

[Rainy9]

I don't know whether to order the MBD kit or just the calcium powder or what.

I got to reading around and saw some calcium toxicity warnings
...and now I'm confused, because what if she doesn't have MBD?

Should I give her the tums for a couple days, while continuing the FV, stop with the tums, and keep giving fv forever? Would that work? Or do I need to go ahead with the MBD kit?

Any thoughts on this matter?

[island rehabber]

I would begin emergency treatment for MBD immediately; there are too many symptoms here in common with MBD.

Do NOT worry about 'calcium toxicity'. That is like saying :"I won't take my medicine for high blood pressure tonight because then tomorrow I might get low blood pressure.' NOT gonna happen for a long time!

[Rainy9]

I would begin emergency treatment for MBD immediately; there are too many symptoms here in common with MBD.

Do NOT worry about 'calcium toxicity'. That is like saying :"I won't take my medicine for high blood pressure tonight because then tomorrow I might get low blood pressure.' NOT gonna happen for a long time!

thanks for helping me with that. ordered the calcium . I'll continue with the emergency treatment..... but do i need to wake her throughout the night to administer more parts of the dosage or should i wait till morning to continue ?

[jo_schmoe]

It should also be mentioned, not sure if it was or not, that you need to start treating the other squirrel as well. If they have been eating the same diet, then there is a good chance that Totoru could develop MBD if not given calcium now.

[Rainy9]

It should also be mentioned, not sure if it was or not, that you need to start treating the other squirrel as well. If they have been eating the same diet, then there is a good chance that Totoru could develop MBD if not given calcium now.
i've been giving totoro the same stuff.:)

[jo_schmoe]

You rule!!! Smart girl! :D

[pappy1264]

Has she vomited anymore? What did it look like, (ie, was their food particles, color, any blood, light/dark?) I am concerned w/the vomiting and what her stomach is feeling. I have noticed my guys (who are around the same age) are eating MUCH LESS but they are all active, and not showing any problems. I am concerned about the amount of fruit that has been in her diet, as well. Not sure, but does anyone know if squirrels can get diabetes? The reason I ask, if her keytones are way up, she would not want to eat. Push the fluids, def.

Ok, I have just read, they can indeed get diabetes. I know this is thinking outside the box, but with her diet, it is what came to mind. I would see if you can get a urine sample to check, if possible.

[stosh2010]

I have tried all of the foods you mentioned except the butternut squash. I will take the fruits out of the diet for now so that they will be forced to eat the veggies. I will try steaming them. FV will be back in the mix also. .
Just a thought. Rama Rota loves Butternut squash--both ways
Cooked and soft--but he especially loves it frozen into tiny ice cubes...he thinks it's dessert.
We "slip in" his Vitamins that way --too.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Stosh >>> Keeper of the KING ( of Costa Rica )

[Rainy9]

Has she vomited anymore? What did it look like, (ie, was their food particles, color, any blood, light/dark?) I am concerned w/the vomiting and what her stomach is feeling. I have noticed my guys (who are around the same age) are eating MUCH LESS but they are all active, and not showing any problems. I am concerned about the amount of fruit that has been in her diet, as well. Not sure, but does anyone know if squirrels can get diabetes? The reason I ask, if her keytones are way up, she would not want to eat. Push the fluids, def.

Ok, I have just read, they can indeed get diabetes. I know this is thinking outside the box, but with her diet, it is what came to mind. I would see if you can get a urine sample to check, if possible.

She only vomited on that one occassion. I looked like a confettie of green and pinkish purple....pretty sure it was broccoli and grapes from the look of it...no blood. There was a very light clear grayish matter holding it all together. I'm guessing that was stomach acids and what was already partially digested. Your right about the fruit being too much....too much sugar, and probably to acidic as well. I will see what I can do to get a urine sample looked at.

[Rainy9]

Just a thought. Rama Rota loves Butternut squash--both ways
Cooked and soft--but he especially loves it frozen into tiny ice cubes...he thinks it's dessert.
We "slip in" his Vitamins that way --too.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Stosh >>> Keeper of the KING ( of Costa Rica )

Thanks for the cool idea with the butternut squash stosh. "he thinks it's...dessert". Too cute. Will definatly give it a try(with vitamins too!).

[Rainy9]

I woke them up early this morning to give some more of the tums and FV. Maru poked her little head out and ate everything happily. I swear I saw a smile on her face. They went back to bed after they finished...late sleepers.:D

Just got done feeding them again. Maru was up and sitting in her favorite spot, on top of the cage, waiting for me when I walked in. I was in the process of drawing some of the tums mixture up into the syringe...I guess she couldn't wait because she pushed me out of the way and starting drinking it right out of the bowl!

I had forgotten what it was like trying to juggle feeding them both. Maru was eating her FV contentedly from the syringe when Totoro woke up and decided it was her turn now. Maru snatched the syringe out of my hands and took off with it! :rotfl

I think Maru is feeling ALOT better as of now. She's jumping and climbing all over me and even trying to climb plces she hadn't tried previously. I told her she needs to take it easy for now (not sure how well that reasoning went over with her)...and that there was a reason I removed her cage from it's tall stand. I'd say she's got about 20% left to imporve before she's 100% again...and that number seems to be droping by the minutes. It's crazy how fast she's improving.

I'm going to pick up some veggies this afternoon. I have a question about steaming them though. Can I steam the different kinds all together, or have you guys seen that they prefer all those steamed flavors to be separate?

[momma2boo]

Can I steam the different kinds all together, or have you guys seen that they prefer all those steamed flavors to be separate?

I steam mine all together and they don't seem to mind one bit.

[Rainy9]

I steam mine all together and they don't seem to mind one bit.

Cool! Thanks M2B!

[jo_schmoe]

I woke them up early this morning to give some more of the tums and FV. Maru poked her little head out and ate everything happily. I swear I saw a smile on her face. They went back to bed after they finished...late sleepers.:D

Just got done feeding them again. Maru was up and sitting in her favorite spot, on top of the cage, waiting for me when I walked in. I was in the process of drawing some of the tums mixture up into the syringe...I guess she couldn't wait because she pushed me out of the way and starting drinking it right out of the bowl!

I had forgotten what it was like trying to juggle feeding them both. Maru was eating her FV contentedly from the syringe when Totoro woke up and decided it was her turn now. Maru snatched the syringe out of my hands and took off with it! :rotfl

I think Maru is feeling ALOT better as of now. She's jumping and climbing all over me and even trying to climb plces she hadn't tried previously. I told her she needs to take it easy for now (not sure how well that reasoning went over with her)...and that there was a reason I removed her cage from it's tall stand. I'd say she's got about 20% left to imporve before she's 100% again...and that number seems to be droping by the minutes. It's crazy how fast she's improving.

I'm going to pick up some veggies this afternoon. I have a question about steaming them though. Can I steam the different kinds all together, or have you guys seen that they prefer all those steamed flavors to be separate?
I'm so happy to hear she is feeling better! Good save Mama!!!

[Scooterzmom]

So thrilled she is doing better!!!!!!! :thumbsup I was scared for this lilttle baby.

You may want to consult with the rehabbers but unless I'm mistaken you do havve to continue the calcium treatment now, only not the emergency kind but still a regular regimen of it since - as I understand - it does take a while to make up for the previous lack.

I saw that you mentioned that in what she threw up there seems to be some grape... do you peel the grapes for them? The skin can be difficult to eat and make them choke or gag - maybe that's what happened(???)...:dono :dono

Great job saving that little one!!!!!:bowdown

[Skul]

Doing fine, R9.
Take it slow and easy.
Let's get the little one back on track.

[Rainy9]

So thrilled she is doing better!!!!!!! :thumbsup I was scared for this lilttle baby.

You may want to consult with the rehabbers but unless I'm mistaken you do havve to continue the calcium treatment now, only not the emergency kind but still a regular regimen of it since - as I understand - it does take a while to make up for the previous lack.

I saw that you mentioned that in what she threw up there seems to be some grape... do you peel the grapes for them? The skin can be difficult to eat and make them choke or gag - maybe that's what happened(???)...:dono :dono

Great job saving that little one!!!!!:bowdown

I'm gad she's feeling better too.
Got some new scratches on my hands. :D

I'm going to do what was reccomended for the MBD treatment.
We have started week one of calcium replacement(for both of them).
So far so good. No complaining from Maru about having to do this.
She's being very sweet and has even stopped her "dominance attacks" on Totoro.

About the grapes...
I used to peel them when they were younger, but now that they are older I don't. I've watched them eat alot and noticed that they only eat a small portion of the skin...just to open up the grape. The rest of the skin is not eaten and thrown to the grown.
I won't be giving them anymore for a while. Just till things settle. Now they are being limited to either a chunk of banana or avacado in the evening.


Gave them the new veggies.
It went over alot better than I expected.
Probably because there were no fruits present to distract them.
I re-intorduced them to cauliflower, carrots and sugar snap peas.
All were tried and eaten. Tried the butternut squash...bit hit!
Tried a different kind of lettuce (have never had luck with it in the past)
Leafy lettuce. They still dont seem to care for it. I'll give them time to change their minds though. Cool thing is...I didn't have to steam anything!
:jump

Not sure if I should continue posting to this thread(since it is labeld "life threatening") about their progress or if I should move back to their main thread. ?:dono

Thank you everyone for your guidance and support on this matter. :grouphug