Is this baby a grey or a foxer?

[lizharrell1]

Got this baby in a little while ago. I know my pics SUCK and I was attempting to show just how RED this baby is (with a creamy colored tummy). This baby also seems SO MUCH larger and heavier than greys I have had at that same age (I am estimating him to be around 8-9 weeks, maybe a little younger). And his paws are HUGE. Wondering if he is a grey with unusual coloring or a foxer of some type.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/edsapio/009.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/edsapio/007.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/edsapio/006.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/edsapio/005.jpg

It is hard to tell from the pics, but his tail is mostly black and red, with a little grey mixed in.

[Rhapsody]

He looks like a Grey to me and being that you are Florida we don't get Foxers down here, not that I am aware of any ways.

[lilidukes]

If the belly is white it's grey:D Super cute!

[djarenspace9]

He looks like a Grey to me and being that you are Florida we don't get Foxers down here, not that I am aware of any ways.

Ah, yes we do have Fox Squirrels, they are just very elusive!
I've worked with a rehabber in Seminole County for 6yrs and only have seen 2come in.

One was an injured adult (who sadly did not make it) and the other was a baby..."Foxy" and she was successfully raised and released.

[island rehabber]

Definitely a little grey, but with that "all-brown" coloring I've seen once or twice. They never get the white eye-rings or other markings that most greys have...they are more reddish brown than grey. Sweet looking boy!

[Rhapsody]

Ah, yes we do have Fox Squirrels, they are just very elusive!
I've worked with a rehabber in Seminole County for 6yrs and only have seen 2come in.
I see, but are they native to Florida or brought in by some one.... as I thought it was illegal to have a Fox Squirrel in Florida? :dono :dono

[Tickle's Mom]

Oh gosh it is sooooooooooooo danged cute!!!!! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[djarenspace9]

I see, but are they native to Florida or brought in by some one.... as I thought it was illegal to have a Fox Squirrel in Florida? :dono :dono

The first time I saw "Foxy" I thought she was and adult E Grey! :D
She was HUGE.
It was a really unique experience helping raise her.

Liz, your little guy is cute but looks like a grey..what are his measurements/weight?

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Grey for sure! White belly and grey tail (foxers tails are almost all orangish tan like their bellies at that age) make it for sure. Also, he has longer ears and nose than foxer would. Foxers have more roundish ears and short noses. Plus, another fun way to tell a foxer from a grey is by the pads of their feet. Foxers have black pads and greys have pink. I didn't notice that until I came on here and saw all the cute feetsie pictures of the greys. Then I noticed my guys all had black pads on their paws (foxers).

[scoobysnack]

I'm so used to seeing that coloring. Ours here in my part of Florida are almost always that "red" color.

[philomycus]

My 2 I just got are going to Liz tomorrow since she has nothing better to do... :)

But mine a 90 grams, eyes closed? They are big, fat. Top of paws is white/silver? Baby season is here...:shakehead Let's hope for no hurricanes this year!

[jo_schmoe]

definitely a beautiful grey squirrel.
you can tell by the tail mostly.
When a foxers tail starts to fuzz...its really orange and their bellies are too.
No white on them at all.
Here's a pic of what a foxer looks like at that age.

[Gina]

He is sooo darn cute!!

[mugzeezma]

definitely a beautiful grey squirrel.
you can tell by the tail mostly.
When a foxers tail starts to fuzz...its really orange and their bellies are too.
No white on them at all.
Here's a pic of what a foxer looks like at that age.

While the greater percentage of Foxers look this way there are Foxers with white tums.
example
Meglos's pix... at a loss for which thread they are in but the female has a predominantly white belly
Peggy Lee rescued some Sherman's Foxers that were atypical of Sherman's or our familiar Niger Fox Squirrel

This one appears to be a gray though

the only real way to tell is by counting teeth
grays have 22
Foxers 20

[virgo062]

Maybe he is like the rest of us....True Grey trying to cover it up with Red:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

[island rehabber]

Maybe he is like the rest of us....True Grey trying to cover it up with Red:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

or Medium Golden Brown :rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:sanp3

[mugzeezma]

Maybe he is like the rest of us....True Grey trying to cover it up with Red:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl
:jump :jump :jump

I needed that belly laugh!!!

[jo_schmoe]

While the greater percentage of Foxers look this way there are Foxers with white tums.
example
Meglos's pix... at a loss for which thread they are in but the female has a predominantly white belly
Peggy Lee rescued some Sherman's Foxers that were atypical of Sherman's or our familiar Niger Fox Squirrel

This one appears to be a gray though

the only real way to tell is by counting teeth
grays have 22
Foxers 20
I wonder if thats a regional thing....maybe some cross breeding. A true foxer does NOT have white fur. Trust me....I spend half my days looking at the foxers we have here and never once have I seen any white on them.

[Hannah]

http://www.sciuridae.org/pics/20091221%20Sciurus%20niger%20rufiventer%20%28Klug% 29.jpg

Interesting, jo_schmoe. The fox squirrels here are about 1/3 white bellies, 1/3 orange, and 1/3 some of both.

[jo_schmoe]

Like I said...it has to be a regional thing....I havent seen a fox squirrel here with white at ALL. As a matter of fact....they are a very bright orange. But keep in mind...there are 20 different species of fox squirrels. The ones here average around 2.5 to 3 pounds. The large variety.
I have read that some have white on their feet in certain areas...but I speak only from what I have seen in my region....and I have yet to see one with any white.

[jo_schmoe]

Here is a bit of info from a web site about fox squirrels.
The fox squirrel is the larger of the two species, measuring 20-22 inches in total length, including 8-10 inches of tail, and weighing 24-32 ounces. Grays are 18-21 inches long and weigh 16-28 ounces. There is no real size or color difference between males and females of either species. Gray squirrels, normally gray in color, have some tawny coloration in summer, a white chin, throat and belly, and bushy tails bordered with white-tipped hairs. In some areas, black (melanistic) gray squirrels are common. Fox squirrels appear more grizzled looking, their fur being rusty brown with a pale yellow to orange belly and tawny-tipped hairs bordering their bushy tails.
The picture you posted is a fox squirrel, but the belly is more yellow than white.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I have never seen a fox squirrel with a pure white belly like greys have. They can have very very light tan bellies, but up close, you can tell its off white, tanish and not pure white like the belly of a grey. Even in the picture you posted, you can tell that it is very light tan colored and not pure white. If you had that guy sitting like that with a grey sitting like that right next to him, you would be able to see easilly that it's not white.

[jo_schmoe]

I have never seen a fox squirrel with a pure white belly like greys have. They can have very very light tan bellies, but up close, you can tell its off white, tanish and not pure white like the belly of a grey. Even in the picture you posted, you can tell that it is very light tan colored and not pure white. If you had that guy sitting like that with a grey sitting like that right next to him, you would be able to see easilly that it's not white.
Thank you!!!
My male has a light yellowish color belly....but it certainly is not white.

[Hannah]

Thank you!!!
My male has a light yellowish color belly....but it certainly is not white.
I'm sorry, sometimes I'm not so good with colors and I don't really have a way to measure it, so we'll go with the majority -- they vary from orange to yellow. Thanks for the clarification.

[Meglos]

So what's this? Dark yellow, dark orange, or maybe really, really dark white? :)

(Photos stolen from the Blackie, the mutant fox squirrel from a couple of years ago.)

http://lh4.ggpht.com/EdJScherer/R1baDpjHenI/AAAAAAAAARU/I9kIo3rMJyQ/s800/IMG_6708a.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/EdJScherer/R1baHJjHeoI/AAAAAAAAARc/-Q9R8TEsi18/s800/IMG_6730a.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/EdJScherer/R1baKZjHepI/AAAAAAAAARk/isgyigmKb5w/s800/IMG_6732a.jpg

[Meglos]

BTW, we have some grays with some "reddish" features, as well as some foxers with "whitish/yellowish" bellies, as Peter showed a few posts back.

Again, a couple of photos stolen from other threads. First, a gray with a strange reddish tail:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_T5A7537WhI4/TQGK2NWSGHI/AAAAAAAAUbc/zkJpNWVl3WU/s800/2010-12-0003.JPG (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_T5A7537WhI4/TQGK2NWSGHI/AAAAAAAAUbc/zkJpNWVl3WU/2010-12-0003.JPG)

And a couple of foxers: the more common one (bottom left) along with the "whiter/yellower-bellied one" (top right) like what Peter showed:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_T5A7537WhI4/TUXN1O4xhII/AAAAAAAAVBU/86e3hPJf3JY/s800/2011-01-0280a.JPG (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_T5A7537WhI4/TUXN1O4xhII/AAAAAAAAVBU/86e3hPJf3JY/2011-01-0280a.JPG)

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

BEAUTIFUL foxer with the black belly :Love_Icon. I have only seen pictures of them, never seen one in person. So cute!

[jo_schmoe]

So what's this? Dark yellow, dark orange, or maybe really, really dark white? :)

(Photos stolen from the Blackie, the mutant fox squirrel from a couple of years ago.)

http://lh4.ggpht.com/EdJScherer/R1baDpjHenI/AAAAAAAAARU/I9kIo3rMJyQ/s800/IMG_6708a.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/EdJScherer/R1baHJjHeoI/AAAAAAAAARc/-Q9R8TEsi18/s800/IMG_6730a.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/EdJScherer/R1baKZjHepI/AAAAAAAAARk/isgyigmKb5w/s800/IMG_6732a.jpg
I have seen a bunch of these in the Omaha Nebraska area ( this is where I was raised). Exactly like that guy....mostly black with a brownish red tail.
Someone else will probably need to chime in that has seen them....since I see that my posts are only taken seriously when someone else says the same thing. Been through this before with this board.:shakehead

[Meglos]

I have seen a bunch of these in the Omaha Nebraska area ( this is where I was raised). Exactly like that guy....mostly black with a brownish red tail.
Someone else will probably need to chime in that has seen them....since I see that my posts are only taken seriously when someone else says the same thing. Been through this before with this board.:shakeheadNo way. Not in Omaha.

:)

[jo_schmoe]

No way. Not in Omaha.

:)
LOL.
The real funny thing is they seem to stay in the north part of Omaha....where most of the African American population is....we used to joke about it alllll the time when we were younger. I have no idea why that is....I just know that it is that way. My mom said one day..."OMG...even the squirrels on this side of town are black". LOL

[Meglos]

LOL.
The real funny thing is they seem to stay in the north part of Omaha....where most of the African American population is....we used to joke about it alllll the time when we were younger. I have no idea why that is....I just know that it is that way. My mom said one day..."OMG...even the squirrels on this side of town are black". LOLIt's all starting to make sense now, as Peter (with his "white"-bellied squirrels) is in South Dakota. ;)

I've always heard the stories about... well, you know, sheep. Just never thought about squirrels that way. :D

[jo_schmoe]

It's all starting to make sense now, as Peter (with his "white"-bellied squirrels) is in South Dakota. ;)

I've always heard the stories about... well, you know, sheep. Just never thought about squirrels that way. :D
Im in North Dakota.....not far from Peter. I think maybe 250 miles or so. I've talked to Peter once or twice maybe on this board...and yes...there seems to be a few differences between the squirrels in his area and the squirrels in mine. Kinda strange since we are so close. One of the main differences I noticed is that the squirrels in his area dont come out much when its super cold. The ones here are out every day....even when its 20 below or better. They other difference is we have no grey squirrels. You only see them where Minnesota and North Dakota border each other...( Fargo, Grand Forks). I have yet to see a grey squirrel other than on this board.

[island rehabber]

LOL.
The real funny thing is they seem to stay in the north part of Omaha....where most of the African American population is....we used to joke about it alllll the time when we were younger. I have no idea why that is....I just know that it is that way. My mom said one day..."OMG...even the squirrels on this side of town are black". LOL
Coincidentally, the Bronx was the first borough of NYC to have a population of black squirrels. And, we're pretty multi-cultural up here....23% Caucasian, only. We made the same jokes about our squirrels. :D

[NaturesGift]

I LOVE fixers in the melanistic phase!!! We have them in Missouri but they are rare and often killed as trophies b.c of their rarity:sad I know I they are the only black squirrels here in Mo that I will get into my rehab lol

Grey squirrels have the same type of phase it's actually a a trait most animals carry and it can be pretty dominant in some species!

When I lived in Alberta all I saw were black squirrels! But when I just visited I saw some grey kids to!

2ndhandranchrescue has some awesome baby pics of foxer kids with what looks like white bellies

I just love the variety of squirrels like seriously... An hour from my house is a huge white squirrel population.. We have greys .. Foxers chippies.. Flying squirrels and texansquirrels :p

[Alcippe]

Foxers do vary by region. Our foxers here look nothing like their northern cousins. One day I will remember my camera when I go out to the park here that has a lot of them. This is more like what ours look like here, so they do have a white-ish belly. ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/skipbro/3581297409/

They have NO red at all. ;)

The baby in question here looks like a grey to me. :D

[Hannah]

As I though about it, I realized color perception probably varies from person to person. So, instead of asserting what color I think it is, I will provide a histrogram when talking about colors. Ideally, I'd use a spectrometer, but I don't currently have a sample or a spectrometer. Belay my previous comment, and I'm sorry for disbelieving you joe_schmoe. I suppose deep down I'm just a skeptic. :shakehead

http://www.sciuridae.org/pics/20100118%20Sciurus%20niger%20rufiventer%20in%20fro st7.jpg

http://www.sciuridae.org/pics/Fur%20histogram.png

The bottom represents a sample of the snow, and the top the fur from the belly.
(Histograms Produced by The Gimp)

[island rehabber]

uh-oh....now you'll have to explain to dumb-asses like me what a histogram is.....:tilt :thinking

[Rhapsody]

uh-oh....now you'll have to explain to dumb-asses like me what a histogram is.....:tilt :thinking


HURRAY - I hear you got your uterus removed........ :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl


NOT!!! :jump

[island rehabber]

HURRAY - I hear you got your uterus removed........ :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl


NOT!!! :jump

:jump:osnap

[Hannah]

uh-oh....now you'll have to explain to dumb-asses like me what a histogram is.....:tilt :thinking
You're not dumb, island rehabber. You know more about squirrels that I ever will.

But to color:

A histogram represents event frequencies, here it is representing the occurrences of color component of different intensities in the pieces I cut from the image for analysis.

In most display devices, color is represented with RGB (Red Green Blue) components. For example, the color blue is stored as 0% red, 0% green, 100% blue; yellow is 100% red, 100% green, 0% blue). The range, in 24-bit color for each color is 0-255, which is most simply referred to as a hex triplet. Eg. the squirrel's venter fur is, on average, #D2C4AB (± #0F1114 one standard deviation). This number is only reasonably reliable if I have proper white balance, and my exposure is set so white is #FFFFFF or if I have a white reference. Even then, I'd question how linear the camera would respond to light intensity.

The RGB system does not encode all the information that people may perceive when they look at the color of something, since the spectral response of the filters used in cameras and screens is not the same as the spectral response of the sensors in the eye, so it's only an approximation. To get complete color information, I'd need to get a Spectral reflectance curve of the fur. That has all the color information needed, and each person could decide how determine the color from that, since different people may have slightly different color perception, and may name colors differently. But for now, hex triplets seem like the best way for me to communicate color information.

I'm probably not explaining this very well, so here more info, if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model

[jo_schmoe]

I saw my second grey squirrel ever in this state today on my way to the airport in Grand Forks( on the North Dakota Minnesota border). The reason I noticed him/her was his VERY white belly. Not 30 feet from where he was playing...4 fox squirrels were out playing too. Since I have only really seen foxers in my area...it felt like Christmas seeing the silver haired beauty. The size difference was quite amazing....and also the fact that they were all in the same general area. I didn't know that they got along. Very nice to see.

[jo_schmoe]

As I though about it, I realized color perception probably varies from person to person. So, instead of asserting what color I think it is, I will provide a histrogram when talking about colors. Ideally, I'd use a spectrometer, but I don't currently have a sample or a spectrometer. Belay my previous comment, and I'm sorry for disbelieving you joe_schmoe. I suppose deep down I'm just a skeptic. :shakehead

http://www.sciuridae.org/pics/20100118%20Sciurus%20niger%20rufiventer%20in%20fro st7.jpg

http://www.sciuridae.org/pics/Fur%20histogram.png

The bottom represents a sample of the snow, and the top the fur from the belly.
(Histograms Produced by The Gimp)
No need for an apology Peter. Its a good lesson in how different they can be by region. Speaking of different...I was in Cabellas today shopping for a new ice house. My husband is a frequent shopper there for fishing gear but I myself have never been there. Every single wall had a different dead animal stuffed on display. I had to leave...I was getting sick seeing so many beautiful creatures displayed like trophies. On my way out...I looked up and one display was a grey wolf...with a squirrel in his mouth.:shakehead
I had to look even closer as Im a glutton for punishment. Im assuming it was a fox squirrel because of the orangish tail....but the rest of the body was blonde with a darker area down its back and its face was more of a darker brown. And when I say blonde....it was almost yellow and it wasn't just the belly....there was no difference in belly color as opposed to the rest of the body. I've never seen anything like that. Any ideas on what kind of squirrel that could be?

[Scooterzmom]

We have some mixed ones here... I've seen only a few fox squirrels here, but I have seen many greys with very orange bellies. We also have a growing number of black ones... some with orange tails, and some with plain black tails.

Here are the 2 black babies I had last year (Romeo and Juliet) and who have been released. They were much smaller in size than the E. greys., I don't know why, and Romeo had more brown in him than Juliet did. She had no brown in her at all, she was so black that her hair reflected blue.
129976129977

I have to admit... as babies, those 2 little black ones were really REALLY cute.
129979 129978


We ended up with 2 kids who showed up with striped tails. I had never seen that before in my life. Their mother (Stump, here below) has a very red-orange tail but her stomach is yellowish white and her face very pointy, so I think she's probably an E. Grey but maybe she's mixed with Fox... ???
129972129973
129974129975

[island rehabber]

Wow!! Just when I think I've seen it all, creamsicle striped tails! :crazy

Your Juliet is gorgeous. I have raised three like her (Maria Negrita, Nina, and Ninja). No other color on them at all -- absolutely blue-black. As pinkies they were black...that's how we came up with the term "blinkies" :D.

[mugzeezma]

I saw my second grey squirrel ever in this state today on my way to the airport in Grand Forks( on the North Dakota Minnesota border)....I didn't know that they got along. Very nice to see.

they don't really get along ...there can be brutal battles. A friend of mine witnessed the two species battling and one was killed.
There is an old wives tale that the males will try to castrate one another. Knowing how things are hung down there it's easy to see how that could happen accidentally.
For the most part they coexist fairly peaceably. Typically the more aggressive and smaller grays will chase of the foxers. I have yet to see that in my back yard where the Fox squirrels rule.
(and I have all grays)

[Anne]

What absolutely beautiful squirrels.:Love_Icon I have really enjoyed all the different pictures and all the different colors our little friends present.:D How wonderful nature is to give us such variety.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

It is funny how the smaller the squirrel, the more they take over the area (particularly the feeders). Here we have all 3 though there are few places with foxers and greys both, usually there is one or the other. The funniest is the tiny little reds. Man do they have attitude. You can have 5 foxers all peacefully eating at a feeder together (they are so laid back, I love them :Love_Icon) and then ONE tiny little red comes running up barking like mad and all the foxers scramble like they are gonna get eaten by a hawk or something. And the little red takes over the whole feeder until he's done. I always laugh, it's like come on foxers you could just sit on the little red and squish him, no need to run!

[jo_schmoe]

they don't really get along ...there can be brutal battles. A friend of mine witnessed the two species battling and one was killed.
There is an old wives tale that the males will try to castrate one another. Knowing how things are hung down there it's easy to see how that could happen accidentally.
For the most part they coexist fairly peaceably. Typically the more aggressive and smaller grays will chase of the foxers. I have yet to see that in my back yard where the Fox squirrels rule.
(and I have all grays)
I have been told the same exact thing. That is why I was so surprised to see them so close to each other. My boss is a life long Fargo native...and there are grey and fox squirrels there. He has witnessed on more than one occasion a grey totally ambush a foxer and attack the genital area biting off his "member:, leaving him to bleed to death.

[Hannah]

No need for an apology Peter. Its a good lesson in how different they can be by region. Speaking of different...I was in Cabellas today shopping for a new ice house. My husband is a frequent shopper there for fishing gear but I myself have never been there. Every single wall had a different dead animal stuffed on display. I had to leave...I was getting sick seeing so many beautiful creatures displayed like trophies. On my way out...I looked up and one display was a grey wolf...with a squirrel in his mouth.:shakehead
I had to look even closer as Im a glutton for punishment. Im assuming it was a fox squirrel because of the orangish tail....but the rest of the body was blonde with a darker area down its back and its face was more of a darker brown. And when I say blonde....it was almost yellow and it wasn't just the belly....there was no difference in belly color as opposed to the rest of the body. I've never seen anything like that. Any ideas on what kind of squirrel that could be?
I'm not really sure. Some fox squirrels in the southeast have dark colored heads, but usually they are closer to black, so I don't know. :dono

The gray squirrel in your story wasn't very nice, and that's a bad way to die. :shakehead

Scooterzmom, Stump's babies do have odd tails. :) Unique, though.

[Alcippe]

I'm not really sure. Some fox squirrels in the southeast have dark colored heads, but usually they are closer to black, so I don't know. :dono




I posted a link to a picture of what the southeastern fox squirrels look like. Some are a bit darker, but the majority of the ones I see are pretty much like the one I posted earlier.

[Sarabi]

I wonder if thats a regional thing....maybe some cross breeding. A true foxer does NOT have white fur. Trust me....I spend half my days looking at the foxers we have here and never once have I seen any white on them.
Its a florida Thang!!!
Ours at least the Shermans have some white, this off the FWC web site:

The fox squirrel (Sciurus niger) weighs from one to three pounds, and exhibit color variations which range from a buff color to gray, and in some instances black. The under parts are usually lighter, and typical specimens have white noses and ears with black faces and feet. They are noted for their long, bushy tails.
The fox squirrel may be found throughout Florida in open woods, pine and cypress stands, and mangrove swamps, but they are protected from hunting throughout the state. Of the three subspecies found in Florida, two are listed as protected species. Sherman's Fox Squirrel, Sciurus niger shermani, a species of special concern, is found in the open piney woods of central and Northeastern Florida. The Big Cypress Fox Squirrel Sciurus niger avicennia, a threatened species is found from the Everglades region, in Lee county, to the southern part of Dade county. Fox squirrels in the western panhandle belong to a less vulnerable, more widespread subspecies.
Fox squirrels are much less numerous than gray squirrels, but can sometimes be observed foraging for food in pastures or openingsadjacent to forested areas. They spend more time on the ground than intrees and often attempt to escape enemies by running rather than climbing.

Lived in Florida for almost all my life and saw my very first live one last year.:thumbsup

[jo_schmoe]

That is absolutely amazing. I LOVE learning about the different species. :thumbsup
The squirrel you described is almost just like the one I saw at Cabellas. This one did have a reddish tail though( could have been due to the taxidermist too)...but I bet its was some variation of an eastern fox squirrel. :dono

[Scooterzmom]

Wow!! Just when I think I've seen it all, creamsicle striped tails! :crazy

Your Juliet is gorgeous. I have raised three like her (Maria Negrita, Nina, and Ninja). No other color on them at all -- absolutely blue-black. As pinkies they were black...that's how we came up with the term "blinkies" :D.


The weird thing is that even the body of TwinB was two colors, almost striped too. I had never seen that before and never have since.

Then there is this little guy who's picture I caught this last summer... more like a beige color but almost white. Not albino, as you'll see his eyes are normal.
130154130152

[jo_schmoe]

Gorgeous squirrel!!! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Rainy9]

Great thread! Beautiful pictures!
I'm interesting learning about all the different types and variations. It got me wondering about where exactly the fox squirrel lives (across the U.S.) and how densely they populate the different areas.

Came across a site showing a pic like the one Alcippe's link showed. I had no idea they varied sooo much! Really cool!

http://www.dcnr.state.al.us/watchable-wildlife/what/Mammals/Rodents/fs.cfm

Does anyone have or know where I can find a pic of the U.S. showing population areas and amounts? Would love to see one...esspecialy because I'm a bit confused now about where exactly the fox sq. lives since most of you guys that have them seem to be farther north and I'm here in Texas and fox is the only kind I ever see.

[Busysqrl]

I'm in the West U.S. and I have both Eastern Grays and Eastern Fox squirrels in my yard in equal numbers. They get along just fine here, certainly as much as two fox squirrels who don't know each other would. The fights I see are mostly among the same species, 2 foxers or 2 grays rather than a foxer and a gray. They will chase each other away from the feeders, but usually nothing too serious. Obviously not saying it can't happen, I just haven't seen it in my 10 years of watching the squirrels in my backyard. I have about 25 regulars between grays and foxers and I live in a suburban neighborhood. I agree, the baby in this thread looks gray to me, ear size, nose shape and color of it's feet, all gray features. Here's a picture from my yard. Not the most crystal clear picture, but it's a foxer and gray sharing a feeder.

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[crazy4squirrels]

I live in Florida also and I have very large Foxers that are very golden yellow with black masks and white bellies and a couple I've seen have a little white spot at the end of their nose. I see them frequently. There is a "family" of them that run around between my property and my parents property. They move so differently than the greys.

[Busysqrl]

Sounds like the beautiful Sherman's Fox Squirrels you have there. They are gorgeous things!!!

[crazy4squirrels]

Oh, I didn't know they had a specific name, Thank You

[jo_schmoe]

I'm in the West U.S. and I have both Eastern Grays and Eastern Fox squirrels in my yard in equal numbers. They get along just fine here, certainly as much as two fox squirrels who don't know each other would. The fights I see are mostly among the same species, 2 foxers or 2 grays rather than a foxer and a gray. They will chase each other away from the feeders, but usually nothing too serious. Obviously not saying it can't happen, I just haven't seen it in my 10 years of watching the squirrels in my backyard. I have about 25 regulars between grays and foxers and I live in a suburban neighborhood. I agree, the baby in this thread looks gray to me, ear size, nose shape and color of it's feet, all gray features. Here's a picture from my yard. Not the most crystal clear picture, but it's a foxer and gray sharing a feeder.

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That is a beautiful sight!! Peace and harmony in the squirrel world!!

[jo_schmoe]

Great thread! Beautiful pictures!
I'm interesting learning about all the different types and variations. It got me wondering about where exactly the fox squirrel lives (across the U.S.) and how densely they populate the different areas.

Came across a site showing a pic like the one Alcippe's link showed. I had no idea they varied sooo much! Really cool!

http://www.dcnr.state.al.us/watchable-wildlife/what/Mammals/Rodents/fs.cfm

Does anyone have or know where I can find a pic of the U.S. showing population areas and amounts? Would love to see one...esspecialy because I'm a bit confused now about where exactly the fox sq. lives since most of you guys that have them seem to be farther north and I'm here in Texas and fox is the only kind I ever see.
That looks exactly like the one I saw at Cabellas. Much much different than the fox squirrels we have here!! This is so much fun learning about all the different types.

[grinn75]

My mom, who lives in Michigan, has Fox squirrels, E. Gray squirrels, Red squirrels, and "black" squirrels that frequent her yard. She wonders if the "black" squirrels are Eastern grays or Fox squirrels and I don't know what to tell her. Could it be either? Do both grays and foxers come in the melanistic phase? Could I maybe tell by size? I know her foxers are huge compared to the grays.

[Hannah]

My mom, who lives in Michigan, has Fox squirrels, E. Gray squirrels, Red squirrels, and "black" squirrels that frequent her yard. She wonders if the "black" squirrels are Eastern grays or Fox squirrels and I don't know what to tell her. Could it be either? Do both grays and foxers come in the melanistic phase? Could I maybe tell by size? I know her foxers are huge compared to the grays.
Hey, grinn75. :wave123 tomcics has a thread about the squirrels he sees in Michigan.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21685

And from that I think the black squirrels are Eastern gray squirrels. Wild Mammals of North America (by Feldhammer et. al., 2003) says that fox squirrel "Melanism is common in the southern portions of the range," but I don't know if that means completely black like some of the Eastern gray squirrels in Michigan or partially black, since partially black is common and I've never heard of a pure black fox squirrel.

[babybleu]

I'm in Michigan and we have lots of squirrels in our yard. I have a bunch of greys and some have really white tummies with white around their eyes. As you can imagine, they're all pretty chubby!! I've also posted a picture of "Pretty Boy", our outside melanistic black squirrel.... he comes up to the door and begs like this almost daily!!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Too cute! I agree, the black squirrels are most likely the black version of the grey squirrel. Fox squirrels can also be black but it is much rarer and they often keep their orangish tails and don't go all black. We have about 80% foxers and 20% greys in Northeast Ohio plus we have reds and chipmunks. I have never seen an all black fox squirrel and have only seen one black fox squirrel with an orangish tail (wish I had had my camera, he was such a cute squirrel!). So, I'd say chances are the black squirrels are greys.

[Busysqrl]

Foxers can be melanistic as well and I've seen pictures of all black foxers, but the close up picture you have there looks like a gray squirrel to me by the size of the ears. Grays have much longer ears than a foxer. Also a more narrow nose/head than a foxer. BEAUTIFUL guy you have there :jump

[grinn75]

Thanks everybody! Now I can tell my mom that those black squirrels are probably the gray squirrels. She did tell me the only thing she can say for certain is that the red squirrel rules the neighborhood. No foxer or gray ever messes with her.:D

[JLM27]

OOOO! I just want to kiss that little black face! So cute!

[island rehabber]

He reminds me of my Kuri....LOVE those chubby black squirrels!!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Foxers can be melanistic as well and I've seen pictures of all black foxers, but the close up picture you have there looks like a gray squirrel to me by the size of the ears. Grays have much longer ears than a foxer. Also a more narrow nose/head than a foxer. BEAUTIFUL guy you have there :jump

I have never seen a black fox squirrel, I think they are much rarer than the black grey squirrel. I highly doubt that even in an area with black foxers that there would be a big group of them like in the picture. Maybe one or two, but not a big gang of them.

[Hannah]

babybleu, that's quite a crowd. :wave123

Here's a picture from the internet of a black fox squirrel (I think):

http://www.thejump.net/alligators-etc/2-alligators-1/black-squirrel.jpg

It's the one of the few I could find online that looks like a fox squirrel, so they are probably rare.

The North/South Carolina and Georgia area has fox squirrels like this:

http://149.168.1.195/photos/photos/WEWO_2005/05/640.777.jpg

And I assume the all black fox squirrel picture is from that area, but I don't know.

[nasubzna]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r299/4bunnies/000_4163.jpg
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who don't know each other would. The fights I see are mostly among the same species, 2 foxers or 2 grays rather than a foxer and a gray. They will chase each other away from the feeders, but usually nothing too serious. Obviously not saying it can't happen, I just haven't seen it in my 10 years of watching the squirrels in my backyard. I have about 25 regulars between grays and foxers and I live in a suburban neighborhood. I agree, the baby in this thread looks gray to me, ear size, nose shape and color of it's feet, all gray features. Here's a picture from my yard. Not the most crystal clear picture, but it's a foxer and gray sharing a feeder.:jump