Wound care

[heyjamai]

Hello.... Tails has been chewing on his legs. I don't know why or how to stop him. There are three spots where he broke through the skin. Two look fine, one looks like a "hole."

They do not look infected, but the one that is a hole is concerning to me because one of my cats recently had a snake bite-turned-abscess wound and this hole looks similar. I don't know if he needs veterinary care or if I can just make a solution to flush the wound and apply some type of topical antibiotic.

I have not attempted to put anything on it. Would neosporin or bactroban cream be a good choice? I may also have some Silver Sulfadiazine cream that I used quite a long time ago last time this happened.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!!

[Kristal]

That sounds like it could be the beginning of anxious, neurotic behaviour. As you probably know, they need a lot of space, exercise and companionship and don't cope well with changes in their home environment. It's definitely something that you don't want to let get worse.

I guess don't put anything on it that he should not be eating unless you put a collar on him to prevent him from chewing and licking the same spot. Vitamin E and aloe vera gel are soothing and promote healing, but are not toxic if ingested.

[mugzeezma]

May be a spider or other insect bite.
Any crusty patches elsewhere?

Silver Sulfadiazine cream would be fabulous if you have it.
It's excellent for wound care and promoting healing.
A small homemade E-collar would be VERY helpful
There is a link somewhere on this forum on how to make one ...not hard to do at all.
You may want to provide more stimulation in this squirrel's cage to keep him busy. offer branches to chew on etc.

[Anne]

See if you can at least give the area a good clearing with a Betadene wash or other anti-bacterial wash. Any fleas or parasites?
Is this an other wise healthy guy?

[mpetys]

Is there any way the cat has access to the squirrel? Are they ever out together? I am just wondering if so, if the cat might have injured the squirrel, even unintentionally. If so, I would get to the vet for antibiotics. I know some people do allow their squirrels out with the cats because they get along etc. I had a young cat get bit by one of my other cats and the wound abcessed and even with veterinary care and multiple antibiotics, the cat died. The vet said that the young cat could have gotten the wound / bite from just playing with another cat.

Is it possible for you to post pictures? Maybe seeing it might look like something to one of our rehabbers.

The E-collar is a good idea. I have a dog that is very obsessive with wounds and we have to put an E-collar on him to allow the wound to heal and then some. Your squirrel may not like it but if it helps prevent him from mutilating himself it will be worth it.

Here are some links regarding e-collars:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=599357#post599357 scroll down to post #38 for pictures and link to instructions

this link is on TSB, click on it and scroll down to post #76
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25567&highlight=e-collar

http://www.suzsugargliders.com/ecollar.htm

Michele

[heyjamai]

Thank you all for the replies... I put the silver cream on last night. I suppose there could be any number of reasons for the sores. I wouldn't rule out an insect bite- he has a cage on my back porch that a spider could have got in. I also have cats, but I have not seen fleas.

I really think he is chewing the leg out of boredom when he is in his nest. I have not taken the time to give him enough stimulation and attention that he needs lately. I have a one year old and I guess I didn't realize how much I've been neglecting my "other" baby Tails. :(

He has always been really healthy and he is in a big 5x2.5x5 cage. He does not come out of the cage very much to play. He bites everyone but me so I only take him out to cuddle him then put him back.

Also, the cats do not have access to him at all... Michele, so sorry to hear about your cat. :( I just went through the whole ordeal with one of mine. She is an outside cat and by the time I found the wound on her it was infected and the vet had to do surgery on her to cut out a lot of tissue. Fortunately, she turned out okay... Thanks for the links!

(I tried to post this once earlier, I don't see it on the site. So I apologize if I have double posted...)

[heyjamai]

Another question....
Does the Betadene wash need to be diluted? How often should I put it on him? Is there another recommended brand if the store does not have that one?

Also, if I use betadene can I also use the silver sulfadiazine cream, or should i stick with only one of them?

[mugzeezma]

Another question....
Does the Betadene wash need to be diluted? How often should I put it on him? Is there another recommended brand if the store does not have that one?

Also, if I use betadene can I also use the silver sulfadiazine cream, or should i stick with only one of them?

One year olds are a handful ... human and squirrel :D

Providine is the generic for Betadine...less expensive.

As far as diluting 1/2 water 1/2 Betadine should work for a flush.
I have always soaked a cloth or gauze pad and used a few drops.
You can use the silver sulfadiazine cream after you pat it dry.

Something else I would check if I were you is the MBD thread.
How is his diet and what kind of exposure to sunlight?

Self mutilation can be caused by many other causes.

Have you thought about the possibility of releasing him? Is he NR?

[Kristal]

Iodine is a mineral that we need for health. That is the active ingredient in betadine. I believe it's possible to overdose on iodine as it is possible to consume toxic levels of silver, so... this would not be something to use over the long term - that is if he continues with these same behaviours.

Could you let him out in a room by himself to play for a few hours a day at least? Having a new child and a squirrel seems like a pretty impossible proposition to me, too :(. Would you consider releasing your squirrel?

[heyjamai]

Tails is non-releasable. He was hand raised and has been a pet for about 6 years. I used to have a screened back porch that I let him run around on, we moved and lost the porch, and now we have a new house with a porch again. :) I cannot let him run around my house. We are renting and our house has brand new carpet & we have new furniture as well that we don't want to get urine on. (He is definitely not housebroken!)

I can probably put the baby in the pack and play right inside the screen door and playing with tails on the porch, but it would be nowhere near several hours. Maybe 20 minutes a day... But maybe it would make him happier! Also, I sometimes put his cage outside if the weather is nice.

How much silver/betadene would be an appropriate amount to make sure he does not overdose? Like, how many times per day should i apply it?

[heyjamai]

129317

129318

[mugzeezma]

Tails is non-releasable. He was hand raised and has been a pet for about 6 years. I used to have a screened back porch that I let him run around on, we moved and lost the porch, and now we have a new house with a porch again. :) I cannot let him run around my house. We are renting and our house has brand new carpet & we have new furniture as well that we don't want to get urine on. (He is definitely not housebroken!)

I can probably put the baby in the pack and play right inside the screen door and playing with tails on the porch, but it would be nowhere near several hours. Maybe 20 minutes a day... But maybe it would make him happier! Also, I sometimes put his cage outside if the weather is nice.

How much silver/betadene would be an appropriate amount to make sure he does not overdose? Like, how many times per day should i apply it?

minimum flush once per day and reapply.
That appears to bilateral for bug bite.
What does he hunker down on most of the day?
What type of shelf?
Anything new in there?
He appears to be wearing his knees and 'shins'.

What interests me is the chewing on the knee joints and ankle.
Can you get him to a vet?
Joints that have an inflammatory process going on can cause the animal to chew them.

I definitely think Tails would benefit from a good stretch daily.
Squirrels are designed to move..A LOT...and he can't do that in a cage.

Get him to a vet and check it out.

[heyjamai]

mugzeezma, I took Tails to the vet today after reading your post. She tested his calcium levels, and he was low. She gave me neo-calglucon and trimethprim sulf. and said to keep using the betadine and silver once a day. She said the wounds actually were pretty clean, and the one I suspected was abscessed wasn't. It is just deep and showing the muscle.

She gave me a collar and said it could take weeks even months for him to quit chewing his legs if it is what she suspects-low calcium/pinched nerves so if the chewing continues she may give him medicine for nerve pain.

I will also be giving him more attention and stimulation that I know he needs... I will also stretch him out. Also, he has sticks in his cage and a flat smooth piece of wood that he likes to chew, but he spends most of his time perching on a cage/wire shelf or in his nest. Is that a problem for his joints? Should I put carpet or something to pad where he sits the most?

Thanks to everyone for your help!

[Kristal]

I do think that the cage is probably too small since he is in there almost all the time. If memory serves, the state requirements that I have seen are about twice that size.

Of course it is difficult to keep a squirrel as a pet. They are hell on wheels and with firecrackers, too. If I may be blunt, most people would feel bad for a solo dog or cat spending all their time in a cage, and he is a wild animal without the centuries of selective breeding that would make it easier for a domestic to live in that environment than it is for him.

It's just something to think about. I know you love your guy, but how much do you love him? Enough to make some accommodations to better meet his needs? Enough to make some space in your life so that he can run around for an hour or two out of each day? Maybe even enough to let him go to an experienced rehabber who could help him transition to a life in the trees if you can't do those things?

I don't mean to be confrontational, but I think those are sometimes important questions to ask. I ask them myself almost every day as I am sorely tempted to keep my guys around... or maybe just one, I think to myself. It's quite a moral dilemma :( I know how when you nurse some being from infancy it makes a different kind of bond... much stronger than you would feel for any other pet. It's hard.

But I don't know whether it's harder to make it work well for them and me both through all of those inevitable life changes that will come and go for human and squees, alike, or harder to let them go so they can be who and what they are.

They just need so much - exercise, companionship, space, play, mental stimulation, self assertion, make up cuddles, personal property and personal space (sometimes), general destruction (apparently)... and supervision

God, it is like living with a pack of wild animals!

[mugzeezma]

mugzeezma, I took Tails to the vet today after reading your post. She tested his calcium levels, and he was low. She gave me neo-calglucon and trimethprim sulf. and said to keep using the betadine and silver once a day. She said the wounds actually were pretty clean, and the one I suspected was abscessed wasn't. It is just deep and showing the muscle.

She gave me a collar and said it could take weeks even months for him to quit chewing his legs if it is what she suspects-low calcium/pinched nerves so if the chewing continues she may give him medicine for nerve pain.

I will also be giving him more attention and stimulation that I know he needs... I will also stretch him out. Also, he has sticks in his cage and a flat smooth piece of wood that he likes to chew, but he spends most of his time perching on a cage/wire shelf or in his nest. Is that a problem for his joints? Should I put carpet or something to pad where he sits the most?

Thanks to everyone for your help!

EXCELLENT NEWS!!!

I am so happy you got him to the vet for help. Keep the cage soft and fluffy as possible. If bone loss has occurred he will be fragile and falls will be hazardous.
Take him out for frequent and short stretches if that's all you can manage.
Consider a larger cage
Under the circumstances I would be very very careful with him around your baby and you may want to think about rehoming him.
This is not a judgment on you or your care.
Kids and squirrels don't always get along. My kids are older,,,teens now,,,and we don't all go unscathed. I'm thinking that this may not be the right time in your life to keep him anymore? Small babies and squirrels don't really mix for a lot of different reasons. Having the time to spend with Tails is probably the biggest one. Not fully knowing your situation I can't say for sure what's right for you you and your family and it's really not my place. I can only offer you advice and support here. I feel you love this little guy and want what's best for him. That's why you joined TSB :thumbsup
I would really really hate to see your baby bitten and a sad ending to Tails because of that. Please try to have a back up plan for all of your sakes.

We are here for you to help and support

As far as diet is concerned...
Go into the nutrition forum and do some reading
Here is the BooBall recipe to get more calcium into his diet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BOO BALLS
The recipe and instructions (it is equal amounts of powdered rodent block, FV dry formula, crushed pecans):

50 grams rodent block (crushed to a fine powder) I use two (25 grams each) , Kaytee Forti-diet and Harlan Teklad 2014 or 2018.

50 grams powdered Fox Valley squirrel formula

50 grams crushed pecans

Mix ingredients together.

Mix organic baby food fruit (100 grams) and 20 grams Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil together and warm for 20 seconds in the microwave. Add this wet mixture to your dry ingredients until well blended. It will seem very wet. (I use Earth's Best Organic Apples & Plums).

Put in the refrigerator for 5 hours (Overnight is even better). This lets it set up. It softens/moistens the rodent block and dissolves the FV.

Once you are ready to serve it take out about a 1/2 tsp (5 grams) of the mixture and roll is in your hands but not so much that it will melt the coconut oil. Give it to your squirrel. This recipe feeds two squirrels for about a week.

[Kristal]

Ah, the coconut oil is a good addition. The last time I made boo balls it was not included in the recipe, and they were too mushy for my squees.

Cocoa butter would do the same and has no cholesterol, if memory serves. Coconut oil is quite high in cholesterol, but the squees probably just melt and burn it off with all the running around that they do...

[CritterMom]

Ah, the coconut oil is a good addition. The last time I made boo balls it was not included in the recipe, and they were too mushy for my squees.

Cocoa butter would do the same and has no cholesterol, if memory serves. Coconut oil is quite high in cholesterol, but the squees probably just melt and burn it off with all the running around that they do...

Kristal, do some googling on "extra virgin coconut oil" and the health benefits and I think you will be as surprised as I was regarding the cholesterol issue.

[Kristal]

That's good to know. My guys love coconut chunks that I chop out of fresh, whole coconuts almost as much as they love avocado. Now I can give them even more and do so worry free ;)

[heyjamai]

Kristal, I appreciate your reply and thoughts. I feel bad all the time about Tails having to live in a cage. Please don't think this is a decision I am proud of. I planned on releasing him when I got him as a baby. He decided he loved cats and the taste of human blood, so I decided to keep him as a pet where he would be safe from cats and humans that may hurt him if he bit them when he was wild.

About Release...
I did consider releasing Tails a few years ago. I felt guilty that he could not have more freedom after reading about the extravagant lives of other pet squirrels on the TSB that run the house freely or have giant outdoor enclosures. I felt that maybe he would be better off without me, and it hurt me so much to even consider it, but I considered releasing him for his own good. I posted on this forum asking about if it could be done at his age, and was advised against it. I even had comments basically shaming me for trying to get out of my responsibility of taking care of him.

All I want is what is best for Tails. I do wish Tails could have had the life he was meant for in the wild, but it is too late for that. This is his life, the only one he has ever known. His needs are met and he has love and companionship from his "mommy."

About giving him away...I hand raised Tails and he has been my pet for 6 years. He considers me his mommy and is sweet and cuddly and playful with me. He will viciously attack everyone else. My husband had to lock himself out of the house because he tried to open Tails cage and he got out and bit him many, many times drawing blood. He attacks and keeps going back for more.

I could never give Tails away. Especially knowing the loving relationship we have with eachother, and that he could never have that with someone else. So maybe someone else would give him a bigger cage, but he would be so aggressive to that person that he could never be loved, cuddled, handled or let out of the cage.

[heyjamai]

mugzeezma,

I keep my baby away from Tails' cage with a baby gate. It works really well for now. Later she will just have to learn that he is off limits. (Surprisingly he has never made an aggressive move toward her. I think maybe he is not threatened by her, at least not yet.)

I do not know if he has had any bone loss; the vet said his calcium was a little low. I am praying that he does not have MBD, and she did not say he had that. I put some extra hammocks at the bottom of his cage, but he seems to be getting around just fine.

I will be calling the vet again soon to get some advice on his wounds. They were looking better, then today he had chewed the scabs off again. He freaks out with the collar so I have not been able to use it. I'm afraid he will hurt himself trying to fight it. :(

About the Boo balls, are they better than henry's healthy blocks?

[Pierre]

Forgive me if I am missing something -- I'm just catching up on this thread and might be forgetting something said earlier, but;

If his calcium, meaning I suppose his serum calcium taken via a blood sample, is low, he needs more calcium asap. A rehabber can give amounts etc to give, but;

Nature does not tolerate even moderate fluctuations in serum calcium levels. The calcium will be leached from his bones to make up the deficit.

:grouphug

Boo balls are awesome, btw. My guy LOVES them and they're really easy to make. :)

[heyjamai]

Pierre,

Tails is getting a calcium supplement-Neo-calglucon. He is on .5ml twice daily for 7 days, then it will be once per day after that.

The vet we went to is very experienced with squirrels and this was her recommendation. She said his calcium was a "little low" based on his bloodwork. I don't know if this means it is mild and a little supplementation will take care of it, or if is low enough to have caused any bone loss.

If bone loss does occur due to MBD, is it reversible?

[CritterMom]

Does the neocalglucon tell how many milligrams of calcium is in the amount you are giving your squirrel?

Boo Balls, HHBs, Harlan Teklad blocks - they are all good and have the nutrients etc needed. I like to offer a variety of dry foods to my guy so he doesn't get bored. The Boo Balls are fun because you make them yourself and can do some experimentation. I roll mine in sesame seeds sometimes. You can replace the baby food or applesauce with yogurt. Change the type of nuts. Again, variety is the spice of life.

If you determine that you cannot provide Tails with the time and stimulation he needs to be happy, TSB is an excellent place to look for someone to possibly take him on, not to release, but to be a forever squirrel. There are a lot of folks on here with the wearwithall to spend the time (and absorb the bites) necessary to get Tails to bond with them if that happens. Unlike looking for a home among your personal acquaintences, these are hard core squirrel folk who know exactly what they are getting into. So keep that in the back of your mind.:thumbsup

[mugzeezma]

mugzeezma,

I keep my baby away from Tails' cage with a baby gate. It works really well for now. Later she will just have to learn that he is off limits. (Surprisingly he has never made an aggressive move toward her. I think maybe he is not threatened by her, at least not yet.)

I do not know if he has had any bone loss; the vet said his calcium was a little low. I am praying that he does not have MBD, and she did not say he had that. I put some extra hammocks at the bottom of his cage, but he seems to be getting around just fine.

I will be calling the vet again soon to get some advice on his wounds. They were looking better, then today he had chewed the scabs off again. He freaks out with the collar so I have not been able to use it. I'm afraid he will hurt himself trying to fight it. :(

About the Boo balls, are they better than henry's healthy blocks?

Try using Bach's Rescue Remedy when you place the collar. It may or may not help. I would swaddle him like a burrito and hold him for a bit talking softly until he calms...give plenty of treats...dunno...I would have to see what his reaction to it was like
If you can get the wounds to scab over you could also try applying a repellant AROUND the wound like YUK, bitter apple, A&D for diaper rash, or other nasty tasting compound.
Others on this board may have other suggestions on what works for this as well.
It's easy for me to sit here 1000 miles away and tell you what do :D ...you have to do what you feel is appropriate for all of you.
All we can do is offer ideas.

bone loss would have to be determined with an Xray

BooBalls and HHBs are comparing apples and oranges really.

The BooBalls contain a full compliment of Ca and D3. THey are also highly palatable.
If you have already been feeding HHBs I wouldn't think that low Ca would be an issue ? :thinking
Introducing HHBs to older squirrels MAY be difficult.

I suggest the BooBalls because I know the older squirrels will eat them readily.

You can also find vitamin additives for RATS and MICE (never guinea pig, rabbit, or Chinchilla) to put in the water that contain D3 that will help with Ca absorption

As far as release and everything else is concerned I've been in your shoes. I know more now than I did then and that's the only reason I would even begin to suggest alternative living arrangements.
I apologize for any offense. Suggestions are only that. They are not value judgments
I know how busy you are with your human baby...I've had a few of them (and still do) myself and mine are special needs kids.
I have heard of much older squirrels being released successfully but it is a long process that belongs in a rural area to be safe for squirrel and humans alike.
Exposure to cats and dogs is by far the biggest concern when releasing squirrel.
Another idea is a very large outdoor 4 season cage. I have a release cage that is 4' deep x 8' long x 8' high. It still seems small to me.
Do you have space for something like that?

[mugzeezma]

Pierre,

Tails is getting a calcium supplement-Neo-calglucon. He is on .5ml twice daily for 7 days, then it will be once per day after that.

The vet we went to is very experienced with squirrels and this was her recommendation. She said his calcium was a "little low" based on his bloodwork. I don't know if this means it is mild and a little supplementation will take care of it, or if is low enough to have caused any bone loss.

If bone loss does occur due to MBD, is it reversible?

yes
bone loss is reversible but it takes months
You may want to ask your vet about this

[heyjamai]

Crittermom,

It doesn't say... Hopefully its enough. Thank you for your reply.

Mugzeezma,

The last time he ran out of Henrys Blocks was a while ago (:( probably like 2 months) and I kept procrastinating on getting him more, ended up just giving him 1/2 tums on occasion thinking it would be enough. (Yes, I know I should have got them!) My vet explained that even if he had a 1/2 tums one day and nothing for a few days, those few days he would be lacking in his calcium requirement. I didn't know that.

So I wonder if maybe the calcium was only low because his diet has been lower in calcium than usual....

Also, calcium/phosphorus... Tails eats A LOT of broccoli and I noticed that it does not have a good calcium/phosphorus ratio. 1:1.65 Should I cut the broccoli out of his diet?

He is picky on trying new greens. When I read up on the healthy diet I would try buying new veggies on the list and he did not really take to the new stuff. For green foods, he pretty much only likes broccoli, kale, baby spring mix, avocado, and artichoke. Any suggestions that he may find yummy?

[mugzeezma]

For what ever reason Squirrels seem to have a high Ca requirement. Ca is needed for more than just bones but for proper neural activity.
THink leg cramps = low calcium.

Don't panic over the ratio so much as the all over diet right now and increasing his calcium intake.
For greens i like to chop them up and either smash in avocado or sprinkle finely ground pecans on them.
Different squirrels have different tastes so you will have to try different thing.
Finnagin, I found, is a Beet eater. I get the tiny baby beets with leaves on and throw the entire thing in his cage. Next day GONE!
kale, parsley, cilantro, collard greens, snap and snow peas, radicchio, endive, whatever! try anything and change it around. Just when they start likeing something they change their minds

[Kristal]

I give mine dried eggshells, deer antlers and sometimes cleaned soup bones. They like to gnaw on all of those things and do so in the wild, too.

[heyjamai]

Update... Tails was healing really well, and all the wounds but the deeper wound were completely healed... (It would scab over and just when I thought it was going to heal up he would open it again...) But the night before last he chewed all over his legs again. I have started using the wash/cream again.

I have been using the wash and cream once per day everyday since my original post (with the exception of about a week that he was all healed...)

Tails' vet said that he may be chewing because of nerve issues, and if that is the reason it could take months to stop. I don't know if it is safe to continue using the wash and cream every time he does this. (Kristal mentioned a concern about overdosing, and I don't know how long I can keep up using the wash/cream every time he does it...)

Any advice? (Note:I did try a collar and he freaks out. I am worried he will hurt himself in it. I can't put anything on the leg to deter chewing unless it can go on open/red skin...)

[Jackie in Tampa]

jamai, call me, I can walk over and ck on him..
I have a very nice e collar and lots of ideas...
let me know if I can help..
:Love_Icon Love you Tails

[heyjamai]

Hi Jackie! I just saw this post, don't know how I missed it. I would love to have you come check on him. I am at a loss for what to do. I need all the ideas I can get. Thank you!!!

I went back to the vet and got more antibiotics because I was worried about infection since the wounds have been there SO long. She also gave me pain meds but I have not started them yet because she said to wait until 10 days on antibiotics. I bought an ecollar and he flipped out once he had it on, I'm afraid he will hurt himself. :( I also bought this bitter yuck spray that tastes terrible and spray it on his legs. I put his cage outside on my porch because he loves outdoors. Sometimes the spray works, but he still chews. :( I'm able to start the pain meds soon, hopefully that will do the trick.


I will give you a call soon... Are you busy tomorrow?

[Jackie in Tampa]

jamai, what ABs are you using?