Boyfriend's Sugar Glider's

[Midnight6333]

Hello again,

My boyfriend has two sugar glider's he's had for a few years now. Not sure on age sense they where rescues. They were a present from his ex about 4 years ago. They are not very socialized and like to bite. The female is named Dr. Mutombo (sp?) and the males named Pustulio.

Diet
The person who owned (a rescuer) them prior gave my boyfriend a list of things to feed them. They ALWAYS have access to these pellets (which they hate and never eat) and dried papayas. They ALWAYS have water and usually fresh every other day. Every night (altho my boyfriend forgets a night or two...Which is why I feed them sometimes) they are feed sausages & blueberry yogurt. Occasionally they are feed meal worms, but they haven't had them for a month now (My boyfriends mom was sup-post to order them).

Last night my boyfriend clams he feed them and they were both acting fine and ate there sausages. But today we noticed Pustulio was acting weird. He was out during the evening. Which normally they don't come out till early AM.
I had noticed Pustulio lost some weight over the last few weeks. Hes not skinny but he always use to be a chunker lol. Where Dr. Mutombo was always more on the skinner side (probably because she always running on her wheel.) He's still alil bit bigger then her but he's not as big as he was before.

Anyway to the point...There defiantly something wrong with Pustulio. He is having trouble getting up the cage to his hammock and keeps falling down to the bottom. I've had to pick him up with gloved twice already and help him back into the hammock. He acting almost like he can't see and his head moving around like he disoriented. The last time I picked him up I checked him over, there is nothing physically wrong with him (no cuts or wounds and his eyes seemed fine). He's acting like hes having neurological problems!

My boyfriend is worried and so am I. They are not very social and will bite (altho the female is nicer then the male) He still cares about them. We love to feed them meal worms because we can hand feed them but thats the most interaction we can have with them without are hands being torn apart.

I'm looking for any advice I can get to help Pustulio. I'm not sure exactly what I can do sense he is really anti-social and I don't want to stress him out. Please Help.

Love,
Midnight
P.S. - Ask whatever questions you need to, I will answer them all if I can or find out the info from my boyfriend. Thank you! Please excuse all spelling and grammar errors I'm currently writing to you with my cellphone. Sorry!

[Nancy in New York]

Hi sweetie...glad to see you, but not under these circumstances. There is a section here on sugar gliders. Here is the link.. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=73
I am not familiar at all with them, but I have never heard of feeding them sausage, and to me right off the top of my head, this sounds nutritional. I will pm some people with your thread, and if they aren't sleeping yet, hopefully you will get some help tonight. Go to the link I just gave you and see what you can find...and I will pm people that may know something about these little ones.
BTW....Fluffer is doing wonderful. There are a few new pictures in Stosh's thread of Fluffer. I will give you the link tomorrow...:Love_Icon
Do you have any calcium there, tums or anything. Not sure if their nutritional needs are similar to others squirrels, but it sure sounds like a pretty bad diet...

Oh pappy....you're here...You know about sugar gliders right?

[pappy1264]

Those babies need a vet NOW! Their diet is all wrong, and I can guarantee you are looking at MBD. Get them on heat and to a vet. They will need calcium injections, most likely fluids, as well. NO MORE SAUSAGES (who told you to feed them that???) I am not going to sugar coat this.....this babies life is in serious jeapardy, and very well he may die tonight. They go downhill extremely fast and that fact he is having this much difficulty is very bad. Where are you located, you def. need a vet asap, tonight!

Do you have any pedialyte? Start him on that (I know he is a biter, but he needs it). This is not something you can 'fix' yourself, this is very serious. Do you have an exotic vet w/glider experience near you (anyone near her who might now a vet she can get to tonight?)

[Midnight6333]

Update:
He keeps trying to get to the sausages I put out for them but is having trouble navigating to the bowls. I put him back in his bed and hand feed him some. He has a appetite. He is still acting extremely weird. He keep trying to stick his head out the hammock upside down to eat??? I wouldn't feed him till he turned the right way which took him sometime to figure out how to do it . =[

[pappy1264]

He is most likely having seizures, most likely, due to MBD. Poor babies, they have been on a horrid diet (and this supposed 'rescuer' gave you all the wrong info!) Get him on heat now, in a small enclosure so he cannot climb.

NO MORE SAUSAGES!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!!!!!! Get fluids into him, call the ER and get him in there. If you absolutely cannot tonight, get him on heat (half so he can move off if he gets too hot), on low. Get some pedialyte (G2 is actually better). This baby is very seriously ill.

[island rehabber]

He is most likely having seizures, most likely, due to MBD. Poor babies, they have been on a horrid diet (and this supposed 'rescuer' gave you all the wrong info!) Get him on heat now, in a small enclosure so he cannot climb.

I agree., These animals are in SERIOUS trouble and this 'diet' is tantamount to abuse., Sugar gliders are marsupials from the other side of the world and where in the freaking hell would they get SAUSAGE in the forests of New Zealand? :soapbox
PLEASE get the male on heat and get him some hydration. Call an exotic vet -- even if they have an emergency hot line, and ask them when yoiu can bring these animals in....ASAP!

[Midnight6333]

Hi sweetie...glad to see you, but not under these circumstances. There is a section here on sugar gliders. Here is the link.. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=73
I am not familiar at all with them, but I have never heard of feeding them sausage, and to me right off the top of my head, this sounds nutritional. I will pm some people with your thread, and if they aren't sleeping yet, hopefully you will get some help tonight. Go to the link I just gave you and see what you can find...and I will pm people that may know something about these little ones.
BTW....Fluffer is doing wonderful. There are a few new pictures in Stosh's thread of Fluffer. I will give you the link tomorrow...:Love_Icon
Do you have any calcium there, tums or anything. Not sure if their nutritional needs are similar to others squirrels, but it sure sounds like a pretty bad diet...

Thank you Nancy<3


Those babies need a vet NOW! Their diet is all wrong, and I can guarantee you are looking at MBD. Get them on heat and to a vet. They will need calcium injections, most likely fluids, as well. NO MORE SAUSAGES (who told you to feed them that???) I am not going to sugar coat this.....this babies life is in serious jeapardy, and very well he may die tonight. They go downhill extremely fast and that fact he is having this much difficulty is very bad. Where are you located, you def. need a vet asap, tonight!

Do you have any pedialyte? Start him on that (I know he is a biter, but he needs it). This is not something you can 'fix' yourself, this is very serious. Do you have an exotic vet w/glider experience near you (anyone near her who might now a vet she can get to tonight?)


Really? Cause for the entire 4 years hes had them he's been feeding them sausages??? Thats what he was told by the rescuer. =/

They are "Vienna Sausages" encase that caused any confusion?

I will speak with him about bring him to a vet right now. Dr. Mutombo (the female) seems to be perfectly fine tho. I will have to do some quick research because its 11:16pm and most vets are closed, and many don't handle these little guys. Plus they are very anti-social! I'm worried any car ride would stress him. But I will look for a vet right now and talk with my boyfriend.

I'm running to Walmart for some pedialyte now!

Thank you

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you Nancy<3




Really? Cause for the entire 4 years hes had them he's been feeding them sausages??? Thats what he was told by the rescuer. =/

They are "Vienna Sausages" encase that caused any confusion?

I will speak with him about bring him to a vet right now. Dr. Mutombo (the female) seems to be perfectly fine tho. I will have to do some quick research because its 11:16pm and most vets are closed, and many don't handle these little guys. Plus they are very anti-social! I'm worried any car ride would stress him. But I will look for a vet right now and talk with my boyfriend.

I'm running to Walmart for some pedialyte now!

Thank you


Kristi...I found this are you near Newburgh???
Newburgh
Don Factor, DVM
Westend Veterinary Office
Newburgh, NY 12550
Tel: (845) 565-0804
Fax: (845) 565-0885
Full service veterinary hospital for domestic and exotic pets. Mobile care available.
Comments:

Dr. Factor treated my Fly River turtle for a systemic fungal infection. The treatment was successful. The costs were very reasonable compared to other local exotic veterinarians. The office staff was very professional and caring. (02/01/02)

MW - Dr. Factor is an expert with exotic birds AND raptors. He has been an enormous asset to our bird of prey educational program: Talons! Highly recommended (07/11/02)
ACB - Dr. Factor has screened all of my geckos, and treated our baby leopard who had a parasite infection. (He's also great with cats/dog, prairie dog & bunnies!) The office staff is great too! Worth the long travel time (40 minutes from where we are). (05/01/03)
Newburgh Veterinary Hospital
1716 Route 300
Newburgh, NY 12550
Tel: (845)564-2660
[Website]
Comments:


S (08/27/07)

[pappy1264]

There is also big concern for this gus liver, from all the fat in the sausages, as well. I emailed a friend trying to find you a vet, will let you know if I hear anything back tonight.

I can give you some good diets, but right now, these babies (yes, both) need seen by a vet. Their diet has been extremely lacking calcium and all that fat is awful! This isn't your (or your bf's) fault and I hope I am not coming off that way. This just makes me so upset someone would tell you that was how to feed them. What pellets are you feeding them? Most are junk. Gliders are sap suckers, so a hard pellet is not a good way to feed them. Just fluids tonight. If they don't get to a vet tonight, then tomorrow morning, at the latest. Although they can survive MBD, it can go either way and it is very serious.

[Nancy in New York]

Here is one in New Windsor with 24/7 emergency service...
http://www.flanneryanimalhosp.com/services.html
Where is your location again?

[pappy1264]

I posted on FB to my glider friends, hopefully someone can come up with more vets to offer help.

[pappy1264]

Where are you located? Are you on long island???

[Nancy in New York]

I have to get to bed...but I will be up early and check in. Remember what pappy said, low heat, hydration, try to get them to a vet...see you in the morning.:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Where are you located? Are you on long island???
Not Long Island pappy...I think it is around Newburgh if I remember correctly.
Pretty close to Tomo's I believe...

[pappy1264]

HERE IS A LINK FOR HELP.....see if any of these vets are near you.

http://www.allaboutsugargliders.com/viewforum.php?f=96

[pappy1264]

Ok, brb, seeing if I can get a vet for them. Goodnight!

[Midnight6333]

Kristi...I found this are you near Newburgh???
Newburgh
Don Factor, DVM
Westend Veterinary Office
Newburgh, NY 12550
Tel: (845) 565-0804
Fax: (845) 565-0885
Full service veterinary hospital for domestic and exotic pets. Mobile care available.
Comments:

Dr. Factor treated my Fly River turtle for a systemic fungal infection. The treatment was successful. The costs were very reasonable compared to other local exotic veterinarians. The office staff was very professional and caring. (02/01/02)

MW - Dr. Factor is an expert with exotic birds AND raptors. He has been an enormous asset to our bird of prey educational program: Talons! Highly recommended (07/11/02)
ACB - Dr. Factor has screened all of my geckos, and treated our baby leopard who had a parasite infection. (He's also great with cats/dog, prairie dog & bunnies!) The office staff is great too! Worth the long travel time (40 minutes from where we are). (05/01/03)
Newburgh Veterinary Hospital
1716 Route 300
Newburgh, NY 12550
Tel: (845)564-2660
[Website]
Comments:


S (08/27/07)

Yes I'm near Newburgh area. I had already called Don Factor's office (hes the only exotic vet I knew of) His office is closed till 8am tomorrow.

I'm going to call Flannery's because they are 24/7 and most likely the only and close vet open now. But I'm not sure if they will take them because they are exotic and are aggressive. But i'll give it a shot! I know they will be expensive so i'm discussing it with my boyfriend now (I don't have any money) and we will have to wake his mother about it soon and it up to her with the money. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you! <3

[pappy1264]

Another link for help.....

http://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/forum.htm

[Nancy in New York]

Yes I'm near Newburgh area. I had already called Don Factor's office (hes the only exotic vet I knew of) His office is closed till 8am tomorrow.

I'm going to call Flannery's because they are 24/7 and most likely the only and close vet open now. But I'm not sure if they will take them because they are exotic and are aggressive. But i'll give it a shot! I know they will be expensive so i'm discussing it with my boyfriend now (I don't have any money) and we will have to wake his mother about it soon and it up to her with the money. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you! <3

OMG yes please let us know, and perhaps if you explain the situation with the vet they may be able to cut you a deal...there is no alternative, these little ones will not make it without some professional intervention if pappy is correct.. she knows her animals...
Did you get them on low heat?

[Midnight6333]

There is also big concern for this gus liver, from all the fat in the sausages, as well. I emailed a friend trying to find you a vet, will let you know if I hear anything back tonight.

I can give you some good diets, but right now, these babies (yes, both) need seen by a vet. Their diet has been extremely lacking calcium and all that fat is awful! This isn't your (or your bf's) fault and I hope I am not coming off that way. This just makes me so upset someone would tell you that was how to feed them. What pellets are you feeding them? Most are junk. Gliders are sap suckers, so a hard pellet is not a good way to feed them. Just fluids tonight. If they don't get to a vet tonight, then tomorrow morning, at the latest. Although they can survive MBD, it can go either way and it is very serious.

I understand, I don't know much about these little ones. My boyfriend is the one who does, and he was tough by the person who gave them to him. This was the diet they told him to do. =[

Idk whats in the pellets they refuse to eat them anyway and they are always wasted...There just in there encase my boyfriend forgets to feed them one night. But in the entire two years i've seen them they have never touched the pellets just the papaya's if he doesn't feed them. =/

What does MBD stand for?

Thank you

[pappy1264]

MBD is Metobolic Bone Disease. It is caused by not enough calcium. It can cause what you are seeing, and can cause organ failure, as well. From what you are describing, he is seizing, as well (which can be caused by MBD, but can be from other things, too.) Check those links, see if anyone else is near you (I don't know your area, so don't know what is or isn't near you).

[pappy1264]

I am going to have to log off (have a very early wake up call). I will be on first thing in the morning. If you can't get to a vet tonight, push the fluids, keep him on the heat and pray. As far as the girl goes, since she is acting ok for now, you can offer her the yogurt. If you have any plain chicken, offer that. I will get you links tomorrow for a few different diets to look over. Glider Central is a great place, but unfortunately, they are having technical difficulties and the site is down right now for a while, so trying to get you as much info as I can.

[pappy1264]

Any updates???????

[pappy1264]

Oh, get rid of the dried papaya (give fresh, dried has a ton of sugar in it and even though they have sugar in their name, they don't eat that much!) I hope you will be on soon with an update!

[fire-eyez]

you need to get them on a appropriate diet asap such as HPW, BmL, priscillias...you can get the recipe for priscillias at thepetglider.com because the other two require more things to be ordered online.

is he dragging his legs?without the proper cal:ph ratio they can develope MBD and/or HLP which is hind leg paralysis. If you get them on the right diet and he indeed has HLP you can help reverse it depending how server by getting them on a good diet

Also just because the female is not showing any signs now does not me she is in good shape a diet like that for four years is pretty rough...

THROW THE PELLETS AWAY they are nothing but fillers it probably has pocket pet somewhere on it or glider chow....throw it out do not offer that to them they are exotic pets and require exotic diets....

are they yellowish looking? smelll really bad? cracked fur? that is caused by a poor diet.

[CritterMom]

Hey guys, I don't know ANYTHING about sugar glider husbandry but will the squirrel MBD treatment provide any short term help until these guys get to a vet - oral calcium fed by syringe?

[pappy1264]

I have never heard it used, as the treatment would be based on weight, I believe. I am hoping they are at the vets, if they didn't go last night.

[pappy1264]

Please post an update, I have been thinking of this baby all night and day!

[Midnight6333]

Heres the long awaited update! Sorry it took so long!

My boyfriend and his mom are the one calling the shots guys. So my boyfriend desided not to wake his mother lastnight because she had to be to work at 6am. Flannerys would have been a extremely big bill and I just dont have the money or else I would have brought them myself. I had no carrier or heating pad with me. They were at my dads house and he would have killed me if I was driving around so late and waking him up =/. I stayed up all night with the lil guy, putting him back in his hammock everytime he tried to get out. I turned up the heat and had my boyfriend start a fire in the fire place to keep the room warm for him. As soon as my boyfriends mother was up he ask her about taking them to the vet and I ran out and got the carrier and heating pad from my dads house. As soon as Dr. Factor opened we called and made a emergance appt.

The Dr. said its neurological and could be cause by a number of reasons. paracites, ear infection, calcium deficiency, cancer, poison etc...She (had Dr. factors assistant Dr.) said he is not having eye refects and can not see anything (dont know if this could be permanent). She wants us to give it a shot at treating him and hoping he will turn around but if he goes down hill its best to euth him =[.

She said we have to keep the two seperated incase its contagaious. No heating pad because she doesnt want him to over heat. She wants us to start them on a new diet (which was expected, just wish I knew before this all happened =[...I keep kicking myself about it)

New Diet
50% insectivore/carnivore diet
50% leadbeater's mixture

Leadbeater's mixture:
150ml warm water
150ml honey
1 shelled hard-boiled egg
25g high protein baby cereal
1 tsp vitamin/mineral supplement

She said to get guargum (sp?) also

Meds:
Panacur - 1 syringe (2 units) by mouth every 24 hours for 3 days
Prednisolone syrup 15mg/ml - 5 units (0.05ml) by mouth BID for 14 days.
Calciquid (calcium Glubionate) - 5 units by mouth BID for 14 days
Baytril 20mg - 3 units (0.03ml) by mouth BID for 14 days

I'll keep you guys updated!
Midnight/Kristy

[prncsbabs1]

Hi Kristy, Just saw the post....sorry the lil guys isn't feeling well. Hopefully with the diet change and Vet visit he can turn arund and make a recovery.

Hope you are doing well :wave123
-Barbara:tilt

[Midnight6333]

Hi Kristy, Just saw the post....sorry the lil guys isn't feeling well. Hopefully with the diet change and Vet visit he can turn arund and make a recovery.

Hope you are doing well :wave123
-Barbara:tilt
:thankyou Barbara! =]

[Midnight6333]

Thank you everyone for all your help!...I've been running around like a nut all day...Between my grandmas house fluiding with no power and having to get a generator for her, traffic lights out everywhere, lack of sleep, worrying my butt off and a huge problem with the vets office...i'm going crazy.

Are appt was at 11am (it was the only time they would give us =/)

My boyfriends mother gave him a blank check which would have been fine but they need her drivers licenses or SS number because they do them automated now. They wouldn't give us the med's till she called with the info. Luckly she called just in time before they closed. So I have the meds!!! Now I need to find a way to get money for the ingredients for his food cause he can't have the med's on a empty stomach...FML...I'm beating my head against a wall...This is taking way to much time! Time that he needs! I'm worried...

I'm going to make some phone calls to try and get money and the stuff he needs asap...If no luck I will have to wait for his mother to get home from work...But i'm hoping I'll have everything by then....

I'm sorry everyone I feel like I'm failing you and him! I just wish money wasn't a huge issue! ='[


Ill get back with a updated as soon as i've got food in him and his meds!

[pappy1264]

Did they do a fecal? What did they actually do? That diet is not feasable, since you can not get high protein baby cereal (alot of vets, unfortunately, have old info). Go to The Sweet Spot (I posted the link, it is the second one, actually go on both and post about him and what the vet said). He WILL NOT overheat, he needs heat under one side, as a sick glider cannot thermoregulate. Just make sure he can move off if he gets too warm. He should be in a very small cage, or carrier. He gave you a host of meds, but did he say what he was giving each for? Boil him up some chicken, some yogurt and some good veggies for now (stay away from corn, too much phosphorus and it inhibits the uptake of calcium.) I don't mean to second guess your vet, but it sounds like something he was reading out of a book with saying to use that diet. The closest you can get, would be BML and HPW. You can get all the stuff to make BML in the supermarket, but the HPW powder you would have to order online. I'm sending you a pm. Glad he is hanging in there!

[fire-eyez]

what worries me is the sepration of the two bonded pair that can cause more stress, depression and maybe eventually self mutalation..

[Midnight6333]

Did they do a fecal? What did they actually do? That diet is not feasable, since you can not get high protein baby cereal (alot of vets, unfortunately, have old info). Go to The Sweet Spot (I posted the link, it is the second one, actually go on both and post about him and what the vet said). He WILL NOT overheat, he needs heat under one side, as a sick glider cannot thermoregulate. Just make sure he can move off if he gets too warm. He should be in a very small cage, or carrier. He gave you a host of meds, but did he say what he was giving each for? Boil him up some chicken, some yogurt and some good veggies for now (stay away from corn, too much phosphorus and it inhibits the uptake of calcium.) I don't mean to second guess your vet, but it sounds like something he was reading out of a book with saying to use that diet. The closest you can get, would be BML and HPW. You can get all the stuff to make BML in the supermarket, but the HPW powder you would have to order online. I'm sending you a pm. Glad he is hanging in there!

No fecal they want me to get one and bring it in tomorrow! She just checked him over and weighed him. Said theres a number of things that could be causing it, gave us the list of food ingredients and meds. She said no heat because she afraid he wont be able to move off it if it gets to hot cause he can't see and having trouble navigating. I didn't agree with her there either! =/...But were keeping the room hes in nice and warm. He is in a carrier and burrowed him self under the blankets (which is why i'm scared to put a heating pad in there cause I don't want him to burrow to the bottom and get too hot. and I don't want the vet saying told you so.)

I worked at a vet so I can tell you what each med is for...

Panacur - De-wormer for parasites.
Prednisolone - Steroids for swelling and inflammation.
Calciquid (calcium Glubionate) - Calcium its self explanatory.
Baytril 20mg - Antibiotic.

I'll look into the different food diets right now...cause i'm still waiting for money to buy ingredients anyway.

He seems to be doing alright as of right now. The female keeps calling to him so I'm keeping the carrier kinda close to her cage so they don't stress out and can talk to each other. I didn't like separating them either sense all night he only tried to get out of the hammock when she left to run around but when she was in there he was much calmer and didn't wanna leave. =[

And now my boyfriends basement is fluiding...this can not be happening right now....today is totally not my day!!!!

[Midnight6333]

I'm so confused...Where can I find the ingredients for BML? *Smacks Head*

[Midnight6333]

Quick update:

My boyfriend is keep a close eye on him...and i'm omw to the store now!

Btw shop vacing a basement thats fluiding sucks lol

[fire-eyez]

I'm so confused...Where can I find the ingredients for BML? *Smacks Head*

here it is
The Basic BML Mixture
to be used with the entire BML plan as explained below

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1/2 cup Honey, do not use honeycomb, raw or unfiltered honey, Most store bought Honey is the one to use unless it uses one of the three words above

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1 4oz bottle PREMIXED Gerber juice with yogurt (Mixed Fruit or Banana)

both have yogurt mixed in, the fluid is creamy colored. For those that can not find this, you may substitute 2 oz of plain yogurt and 2 oz of mixed fruit juice

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Turn on blender, add the next group of ingredients.

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1/4 cup Wheat Germ
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1 Teaspoon of Rep-Cal HERPTIVITE vitamin suppliment ,
Blue label on a white plastic container, DO NOT SUBSTITUTE this suppliment.
(ANY PET STORE)


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2 teaspoons Rep-Cal Calcium Suppliment non-phosphorus with Vit. D3 in it.

Pink label on a white plastic container (my petstore ordered it for me)

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2 2 1/2 oz jar of Stage 1 or 2 Heinz, Gerber or Beechnut Chicken baby food

The chicken will say either Chicken with Chicken Gravy or Chicken with Chicken Broth either is acceptable

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1 Egg (boiled or scrambled)(I Hard Boil Mine)
the shell is no longer an option . We do not use it at all.

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for the next 2 ingredients alternate them, a little cereal with a little juice, a little cereal with a little juice, going back and forth till both ingredients are included

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1/4 cup of Apple Juice, just the good ole apple juice that you and I would drink, Not frozen, not baby juice, just regular bottle apple juice.
you may also substitute 1/8 of the applejuice for white grape juice
1/2 cup dry baby cereal.. Heinz or Gerber (Mixed or Oatmeal) **NOTE: (most gliders do not like the taste of the oatmeal)
(I use rice with fruit bits)

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Blend well for 5 minutes
turn off blender, then pour it into tupperware bowl, or ice cube trays and FREEZE,
1 cube in ice cube tray is approx. 2 tablespoons. (measure out your first couple of cubes, place 2 tablespoons in each cube (noting some ice cube trays are bigger than others)
It will freeze to the consistancy of ice cream.
This mix will feed 1 glider for approximately 1 month.
Do NOT mix the fruits and veggies in before freezing.
the veggies are corn , peas, carrots and greenbeans
the fruit is apples, grapes, watermellon, cantalope, melon, frozen pitted cherries and blueberries
Do NOT feed the seeds of apples or the pits of cherries. You can use fresh or frozen, but do NOT used canned.

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The rule of thumb per glider is..
1 Tablespoon of the BML basic mix,
1 Tablespoon of fruits, (apples, grapes, watermellon, cantalope, melon, frozen pitted cherries and blueberries)
1 Tablespoon of veggies (corn, peas, carrots and green beans)
Insects (feed in the morning as dessert)



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IMPORTANT NOTES ::

If they eat it all the first night add a little more each night till they leave only a little bit.

IF they DON'T eat it all, no need to worry. back off on every thing only half of the recommended amounts and only a few pieces of veggies increasing each day , till they leave only a little behind. If they are eating 3/4 of a tablespoon each then they are doing good. There are gliders that do eat more thus the reason for the tablespoon.


Young joeys up to 6 months oop, may not eat the full amount offered or they may not eat as many fruits and veggies, and eat more of the mix. This is NOT cause for concern, they are just not ready for it yet. You can introduce them by offering them as finger treats.

For nursing and lactating mothers. Stay with this plan, do not add or increase protein and calcium, They will eat more BML if needed, and less fruits and veggies. They also may want more insects, you can increase theirs by 1 or 2.


They get up and down all night foraging, feeding and playing.


They only eat the insides of the corn, peas, greenbeans, so closer inspection may reveal they are eating more than you think.

some very important things to keep in mind.


IF your gliders suddenly stops eating, it could be normal, if you have more than 1 cage, notice if all the cages slow down, if so there is probably a good explaination. I tell people to keep a log of their gliders eating habits, when they do slow down. check the moon phase, is there a lot of atmospheric activity. something stressful in the home, or changes made. I also ask people if they are famished when they go to the table each night? of course not, well then we shouldn't expect our gliders to be either. Are we over feeding them, giving them too many treats, feeding the mealies at night before they eat. Changing their foods around too much.Offering too much?? please ask yourself these questions first. Gliders do not tire of their food, the plan allows for daily variety.

If you don't remember anything, please remember that your gliders stomach is only as big as your thumbnail. it holds less than a tablespoon of foods and liquids.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***Special Notes***
For Joeys that are under 5 weeks OOP, please use the JOEY BML. Ask the breeder how they age them, some large breeders age them upon emergence into the pouch. If that is how they age them, subtract 60 days from their age.

If your glider has never been introduced to insects, it may SEEM like they do not like it, that is NOT the case. Break a mealie in half, allow them to lick the guts, or squeeze it onto your finger and offer it as a licky treat. This can be started very young (mine start this at about 3-4 weeks oop, but only the insides.) If they are older (over 8 weeks OOP), you may try dipping the half in their favorite licky treat.

As for insects, Depending on what you feed, and what size. I feed 2-3 Large (jumbo) mealies per day (not superworms) small 5-7, Large or jumbo 2-3, superworms 1. Some of the most popular insects are . Mealworms, moths, june bugs. My gliders do not like to have their mealies in the BML mix. I offer 2 to 3 mealworms each morning. I may also offer them a few moths, june bugs or Man'o'wars. If it is a bug.. Look out... In the summer the fav is moths, june bugs and man'o wars or skeeter eaters.. whichever people call them they look like giant mesquitos.
Caution : DO NOT feed fireflys/lightening bugs. Do NOT feed roaches, or any insects found on the floor or on the ground, which could have come in contact with pesticides, either from your place, or someone elses. We no longer suggest or advocate the use of crickets due to the problems posed with aflatoxin.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many ways to offer variety this is some of the ways I feed mine... please notice I am not changing the ingredients of the diet, but how it is offered.

After I spoon the BML mix into their bowl, I feed their veggies and fruits in various ways.
1.) Fold in a few frozen veggies.. corn, peas, carrots. etc. into the BML mix
2.) I will give them fruits and veggies during the day, for treats. reducing the amount I give them at night with their meal
3.) In a side bowl.
4.) If I "ICE" the BML mix with applesauce or another fruit, I will reduce the amounts of fruit offered. By Icing you take about 1/8 teaspoon of applesauce and spread it across the top of the BML mix, take the edge of a spoon and cut ridges into the BML mix.
Motts has snackpack flavored applesauce, try the different flavors to find out which ones your gliders like.


I PERSONALLY DONT LIKE THIS DIET EVEN THOUGH IT IS GOOD AS FAR AS THE CAL TO PH RATIOS GO BUT ONLY PRISCILLAS DIET WAS MADE SPECIFICALY FOR GLIDERS....

[pappy1264]

I know what the meds are for, but I am surprised he is throwing this and that, w/o doing any type of testing. If you have not given the panacur, hold off until AFTER you get a sample, so it will be a true read. Calcium is good, as are the ab's. Steroids I guess is the one that surprised me. The normal course would have been get a fecal sample, do xrays to check bone density, and possible sign of liver enlargement and go from there. I don't like to sound so negative on things, I just want to make sure he is getting the care he needs. Please keep us posted. (And been there....I HATE when my basement floods!!!!)

[Midnight6333]

I know what the meds are for, but I am surprised he is throwing this and that, w/o doing any type of testing. If you have not given the panacur, hold off until AFTER you get a sample, so it will be a true read. Calcium is good, as are the ab's. Steroids I guess is the one that surprised me. The normal course would have been get a fecal sample, do xrays to check bone density, and possible sign of liver enlargement and go from there. I don't like to sound so negative on things, I just want to make sure he is getting the care he needs. Please keep us posted. (And been there....I HATE when my basement floods!!!!)

She didn't want to test him (blood, x-rays, etc), she said he would need to be knocked out and because where not sure whats wrong with him there could be a underlying problem that could be fatal if he was to be put under.

I've got him to eat some of the BML from a dish...but hes acting very drunk and has alot of difficulty doing so. I attempted to force feed him. By holding him and dropping the liquid into his mouth but I can't do it. I'm using gloves and a towel and trying to be gentle. I tried to hold his head but he keep squishing his face back in between my fingers and wants nothing to do with the syringe full of food. He just stressing out when I handle him. I have no idea how to get the med's into him! I should have had the Dr. show me to see if she could! but she didn't ask and he hadn't ate and the med's couldn't be givin on a empty stomach!

How do I get the meds, at least the baytril & calcium, into him??? When hes being so difficult?!?

[prncsbabs1]

Try dipping the tip of the syringe in baby applesauce or honey so he gets used to the syringe first. I am sorry you are having a terrible day on top of all this.....just take a step back...take a deep breath....you can do this....you saved Fluffer, remember that. :grouphug

[Midnight6333]

Try dipping the tip of the syringe in baby applesauce or honey so he gets used to the syringe first. I am sorry you are having a terrible day on top of all this.....just take a step back...take a deep breath....you can do this....you saved Fluffer, remember that. :grouphug

Thank you Barbara,

I'm trying not to stress out cause I don't want him to stress out but he not social at all. And wants nothing to do with being handled. Hes screaming trying to bite the glove, squirming, and fighting me the whole way. I've dealt with aggressive patients before...Pilling or giving liquid med's to aggressive cats and dogs. I'm not scared of being bitten but I've never dealt with something so aggressive thats so tiny! I've afraid of hurting him by being to forceful when hes squirming and fighting.

He likes the taste of the liquid food, he try's to lap it up in the dish but hes so uncoordinated he's almost stepped in the dish or thrown his entire face in the dish a few times...I really don't want him to get sticky by doing this...=/ but when he is being held he wants nothing to do with food just being put back down...

I'll trade for Fluffer! lol...Fluffer was easy...he wanted the food and didn't try to fight me...lol :rotfl God I miss and love that lil one =]

I'm not giving up yet, I'll keep trying!...anyone with advice on how to handle him would be very appreciated!

[Midnight6333]

I had a idea but I want to run it by everyone first to see if it's a good or bad one. We picked up some meal worms today for the female. We changed her over to the BML also but we figure we could give them as a snack. Heres the thing Pustulio loves meal worms! I did a quick test to see if it might work. I dipped one meal worm in the BML and he loved it!... grabbed it out of my fingers and It was gone in seconds. Idk if its a good idea to be mixing the BML and the meal worms when hes sick like this? but If it is, I was wondering if I mixed alil of the meds with a tiny bit BML and dipped meal worms in it and give it to him if this could help me get him to take his meds? I know whenever we told owners they could mix the meds with the food they have to make sure they eat every drop. But he loves meal worms and there easy for him to grab and eat in his state. I know it sounds crazy probably, I'm just trying to find a less stressful and easy way to do this...=/...lol I wont do it till you guys say its okay. Let me know.

[pappy1264]

Some people actually inject meds into the mealies! That would be a better option (can you see if your vet would give you a tiny insulin syringe?) Little concerned on worming a sick animal if it is not needed (should have clarified that in my last post. If you haven't yet, bring the sample in first before you do, to make sure he actually has parasites.) I will call some people and see if maybe their vets would do a phone consult, if needed. I know blood would be out of the question, but thought they would be able to get a quick xray, but understand what the vet is thinking. I just figured he would pick one (say, having MBD,) treat for that, see if improvement, then go from there. I have never heard of steroids for that treatment, (granted, I am not a vet, so forgive me if I am sounding like a know it all, *I'm far from it...lol) I know he will get sticky, but if he can eat on his own, I would let him do that. Offer a very small, shallow dish, lids from mayo jars work really well for this! I don't know if RR would be ok to use (never used it on a glider). I can't imagine it would be a problem, but will ask others if they have used it. Having had to deal with gliders who are not friendly get very ill and need handling, my heart goes out to you....it is not for the faint of heart (who knew such a tiny animal could be so fierce!) Hang in there! Keep me posted. (I sent you a pm, btw.)

[Midnight6333]

Update

Last Night
I only gave the Baytril and Calcium. I put the doses in a small dish and mix alil BML cause it sticky. and one by one I dipped the meal worms in and feed it to him till there was no more med's or BML left in the lil dish. He loved it. I had to do this because he was being so difficult and I didn't want to hurt him or stress him out anymore. I tried handle him and med him a bunch of times with no success. =/

I have insulin syringes and tried to inject the meal worms this morning but the BML wont go threw the needle because its to thick? And the med's are such small doses they only comes out in a drop and most of its left in the syringe and needle. So thats not gonna work. =/

I didn't give him the dewormer yet. He left me a fecal sample it was dark brown almost blackish...very similar to the female's stool.

This Morning/Today
This morning there seems to be no change or improvement with him. He's still making angry noises when I pick him up or touch the carrier and moving about like hes drunk.

He didn't want the meal worms this morning but it looks like he ate the ones I left covered in BML in a dish for him lastnight but noticed this morning it looked like he threw most of it up or spit it up?

I decided to handle him again and trying and give him the med's with a syringe. I don't know if hes weaker or just get use to being picked up but I was able to do it this time. He fought me alil but wasn't as squirmy as last night. I only gave him the Baytril, Pred and Calcium doses. Also some BML with a syringe.

Should I give him some water or pedialyte in a syringe too?

Just now I had him out to check on him and he crawled all over me, still very drunk and unbalanced. But hes not acting aggressive and I was able to pet him and let him crawl on my hand without the glove and he didn't try to bite me. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. =/

[prncsbabs1]

Aww... think positive...he knows you are trying to help him. Fluid is always a good thing...see if he will take water. If you try pedialyte only give it to him for a 24 hour peiod...after that it is harmful to him. Good luck with him, sounds like you got it under control:tilt

[Midnight6333]

Aww... think positive...he knows you are trying to help him. Fluid is always a good thing...see if he will take water. If you try pedialyte only give it to him for a 24 hour peiod...after that it is harmful to him. Good luck with him, sounds like you got it under control:tilt

My boyfriend got him to drink some water! :D

Hes being really friendly and climbing all over us, I just wish he was like this before and not because hes sick =/

[Midnight6333]

Update

Gave meds w/ syringe except the dewormer! Still acting drunk altho I think its not as bad as before but i'm not positive. He alil more agressive then this morning when giving the meds.

These are video's I took right after I gave him his meds. They where all done with my phone (Droid moto 1) The first is very dark and was taken in my boyfriends room. The other two were in the bathroom cause the light was better which is why I was trying to keep him on the towel. anytime you dont see him on camera hes on my sholders or crawling around on my back lol...which I way I said "not again" or "Ohh no" cause he keep doing it lol and I couldn't reach him. lol =P

Video 1 (very dark) (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b310/Midnight6333/?action=view&current=VID_20101203_003800.mp4)
Video 2 (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b310/Midnight6333/?action=view&current=VID_20101203_003859.mp4)
Video 3 (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b310/Midnight6333/?action=view&current=VID_20101203_004040.mp4)

[pappy1264]

Is there any chance he could have fallen (from possible MBD) and injured his head? If so, hopefully the steroids will kick in. Did you get in touch with Val or anyone from that board? I won't be on until later, but will check for an update. How is he doing today?

[prncsbabs1]

He is quick & active so take that as a good sign.:tilt Hope he is on the road to recovery:grouphug

[Midnight6333]

Is there any chance he could have fallen (from possible MBD) and injured his head? If so, hopefully the steroids will kick in. Did you get in touch with Val or anyone from that board? I won't be on until later, but will check for an update. How is he doing today?

I don't know if he fell...The old cage was 7 feet tall and the hammocks at the top...so its possible...I didn't see it happen...But sense I noticed him acting weird he has not fallen on his head and i'm being gental cause I don't want him to break a bone if it is MBD...

Val gave me her number and i'm gonna call her soon...Just need to eat, shower, and run the fecal sample to the vet. I just realized I haven't ate anything but a bowel of cereal sense hes been sick and I haven't slept very much either...So worried about him I'm forget to take care of myself...lol =P

He seems the same as the video's altho my boyfriend thinks he seems to be doing better...But idk...He kept trying to escape the carrier lastnight and ran to the door as soon as I opened it this AM...He has got a ton of energy lol. He has been eating and drinking water. I gave him the meds a few hours ago. While my boyfriend cleaned the carrier he was running around/ crawling all over me....and eating mealworms on my back lol...He keeps trying to jump occasionally but with no success...He gets maybe 2 inchs off the ground and about 3 inch's forward =/

[pappy1264]

Really hoping the calcium and steroids will get him better! And maybe he really was just acting that way to scare you off....but now that you had to handle him, he is getting over his fear....hopefully you will have a better relationship w/him after he gets better!!!!

[Midnight6333]

He is quick & active so take that as a good sign.:tilt Hope he is on the road to recovery:grouphug

Me too! Thank you! :grouphug

He's hard to keep up with lol...The BML must be giving him alot of energy cause i've had to take him out a few times cause hes making angry noises and trying to push the zippers on the carrier open so he can run around alil and burn some of it off...He only stay's still when hes eating or sleeping...other then take hes pacing in the carrier or running around on us and the bed...We are being really careful tho not to let him fall or jump so he wont hurt himself.

Hoping the energy is a good sign
:jump


Really hoping the calcium and steroids will get him better! And maybe he really was just acting that way to scare you off....but now that you had to handle him, he is getting over his fear....hopefully you will have a better relationship w/him after he gets better!!!!

I hope so too...cause even my boyfriends sister is loving how much more social he is acting...She was so terrified of them and now she just thinks there adorable lol :flash3

[pappy1264]

How is he today?

[Midnight6333]

How is he today?
Sorry it took so long for a update!

I did the pinch/tent test on him and his skin didn't go down very quickly. I think he maybe alil dehydrated :dono . Should I give some pedialyte for 24hour tomorrow? He been drinking the water, I've watched him a few times doing it. Vets closed till Monday.

Besides that...I'm noticing lil improvements on coordination. He's not falling over on his back anymore in the carrier...and is able to jump alil bit more now. He seems to be less shaky and better at navigating around. Still no eye reflex tho. He is full of energy and I had to chase him around the bed today after I gave him the meds. Hes been pretty good about the meds but still fights me alil.

Hoping he is getting better, so far I know hes not getting worse.
I'll take and upload somemore video's tomorrow!
:jump

[cbell]

By any chance he the only glider he has because you might think about grtting him a mate when our Joey was alone he got aggesive then when we rescued Cloe he mellow out big time but now we kids:
:nono :peace :crazy :crazy :crazy

[pappy1264]

He has a mate, they are just seperated since he got sick.

It sounds like the calcium is working(maybe the steroids, too). Keep doing what you are doing. And yes, give him the pedialyte (actually, if you can get some Gatorade G2, that is better for gliders. I use the fruit punch one.) Keep me posted...and KEEP HANDLING HIM, use this as a time to bond with him....may be time to even try a bonding pouch for when he is sleeping!!!

[prncsbabs1]

Sorry it took so long for a update!

I did the pinch/tent test on him and his skin didn't go down very quickly. I think he maybe alil dehydrated :dono . Should I give some pedialyte for 24hour tomorrow? He been drinking the water, I've watched him a few times doing it. Vets closed till Monday.

Besides that...I'm noticing lil improvements on coordination. He's not falling over on his back anymore in the carrier...and is able to jump alil bit more now. He seems to be less shaky and better at navigating around. Still no eye reflex tho. He is full of energy and I had to chase him around the bed today after I gave him the meds. Hes been pretty good about the meds but still fights me alil.

Hoping he is getting better, so far I know hes not getting worse.
I'll take and upload somemore video's tomorrow!
:jump


Glad to hear he is doing OK :thumbsup

[Midnight6333]

He has a mate, they are just seperated since he got sick.

It sounds like the calcium is working(maybe the steroids, too). Keep doing what you are doing. And yes, give him the pedialyte (actually, if you can get some Gatorade G2, that is better for gliders. I use the fruit punch one.) Keep me posted...and KEEP HANDLING HIM, use this as a time to bond with him....may be time to even try a bonding pouch for when he is sleeping!!!

my boyfriend got the pedialyte already before I saw about the gatorade. Its fruit favored...

Hes so much better about handling, only puts up a fight when I med him. I think he might be cage aggressive tho cause he try's to bite me and makes angry noises when I go in there, but once hes out I can handle him without the gloves. So far I still have yet to be bitten. *knock on wood* lol

I'll post a update with video's soon. :D
:grouphug

[pappy1264]

Many gliders are cage or pouch protective. Keep handling him!!! Glad to hear he is starting to improve. Have you spoken to Val?

[Midnight6333]

Many gliders are cage or pouch protective. Keep handling him!!! Glad to hear he is starting to improve. Have you spoken to Val?

Not yet. Phones been dead...My boyfriends charger got chewed up by the dogs yesturday. I have to get one from my dads. I'm going there soon after I clean up here tho.

[pappy1264]

Just checking in....how are things going?

[Midnight6333]

Sorry for the late update. I've been working at a new job and been alil worn out and busy. My boyfriend has been watching him but I've been giving the meds and checking on him when i'm home. Hes doing so much better! Hes not shaking or acting drunk anymore and seems almost normal :D. He has been eating his food (the female is eating and doing well also). Still spiting it out now and then tho. He had some loose stool the last two days but it seems to be clearing up now. My guess was it was from the change in diet, pedialyte (from that one 24 hour day I did it) and/or meds.

I've been meaning to take a video of him. I'll try to do it soon! but he seems alot better and tomorrow I think i'm going to put him back in with the female. She'll be happy.
:jump
:thankyou for all your help. I'll try to give more updates soon!

[Midnight6333]

do you think there will be any problems reuniting the two? should I go about it a certain way?

[pappy1264]

There may be. I would suggest taking them out together, seeing how they do for a few nights before putting them in (and then put them in during the day, while they are sleeping, so you can listen for any issues.) Most go right back together, but he will smell different and it may throw her off. If you have a blanket with their scents on it you could swap off for a night, I would do that (if you don't, you can add a piece of fleece to each pouch for a night, then switch them out.) Just go slowly, watch for any issues (they may have to get the pecking order worked out again, but as long as they aren't balling up and fighting, let them work it out.) Keep me posted!

[Midnight6333]

There may be. I would suggest taking them out together, seeing how they do for a few nights before putting them in (and then put them in during the day, while they are sleeping, so you can listen for any issues.) Most go right back together, but he will smell different and it may throw her off. If you have a blanket with their scents on it you could swap off for a night, I would do that (if you don't, you can add a piece of fleece to each pouch for a night, then switch them out.) Just go slowly, watch for any issues (they may have to get the pecking order worked out again, but as long as they aren't balling up and fighting, let them work it out.) Keep me posted!

Haven't put them together yet =/...Its easier to get the male out of the carrier for meds then the cage..but I plan on getting them together soon...

Males doing great...No shaking,bobbing or acting drunk...Refilled the meds today! Dr.'s having me lower the pred down....and I have a recheck in 14days!... I'll post more tomorrow...Night =]

[pappy1264]

Awesome! Keep him where it is easiest to work w/him, but start giving them play time out of cage together, to keep an eye on them. That way, they will still 'know' each other when he can go back in his cage!! Keep me posted!

[Midnight6333]

Update

He is doing great! acting complete normal! i gave him his meds this Am. He did the cutest thing! I wish I had my camera!

After his meds He climbed all over me and ate some worms on my shoulder. He usually runs back in the cage when I put my hand in there but he didnt want to...He escaped and jumped to the cage the females in. I tried to catch him. He went behind the cage. So I removed the towel that was on top. To my surprize he was nose to nose with the female. They kept touching nose's and as I tried to catch him and he running around avoiding my hand she followed....Jumping all around the cage after him!

When I finally got him. I took this as a sign he was ready to go back in with her. So I put him in...He ran striaght for there bed where she was. There was no fighting. She grabed him and started smelliing and grooming him vigorously! It was so cutie I almost cried lol. It was like she was saying hes smelly and dirty and were have you benn I missed you lol...When he tried to investigate the cage she grabbed him and kept grooming....It was like she was saying please dont leave me!

I wish I got it on camera! Ive been watching them and they both seem extremely happy! She's grooming him and there cuddling in the nest! There hasn't been any biting or angry noises! Its so cute!

:jump
:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[pappy1264]

That is GREAT!!!! Now, you need to take them both out every day/night and play with them together! I am so happy to hear how well he is doing!!!! How is he eating? Are they both eating the BML?