Seizures?

[Littlefoot]

I think Littlefoot is having seizures. I just read the MBD threat and seizures is a symptom so now I'm worried. Here's what just happened.

I was feeding Littlefoot like I do every night before I go to bed. He always immediately comes out and runs around on me while I'm getting his food ready. Well tonight he jumped out like always and was hanging on the armpit part of my shirt. I felt what I thought was him chewing my shirt but then he starting making the "squeak squeak squeak" noise. when I went to pick him up he didn't try and move away.

He was all curled up in the fetal position while hanging from my shirt. It took a minute to get him off cause he was griping really hard with his claws. I dislodged him and held him in my hand. He was curled up and his eyes were half closed. His arms and legs were tucked to his body. It looked like he was dead.

After a minute though he opened his eyes. I kept ahold of him and tried to keep him calm. Slowly he opened up and moved his legs to support himself. A few minutes late and Littlefoot was back running around hoarding a nut like nothing happened.

This has happened a couple times before. What do I do? Is a nutritional thing? Or a possible injury?

[Littlefoot]

I just looked at this article:

http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6933

On the list of all the symptoms of MBD he only has the seizures if this helps any.

[CritterMom]

What do you feed him? Is he still on formula, and if not, will he still take it? If you can keep them eating FV, it makes them almost MBD proof...

[island rehabber]

How old is LittleFoot now?
Was there something new, odd, strange in the room when he behaved this way?

[Littlefoot]

Littlefoot is a little over a year old now. I got him when he was already weaned so I've never fed him formula.

I can't think of anything that was different when I got him out. It seems every time this happens its just a few minutes after he comes out of his cage. I've never seen him seize up in the cage but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I feed Littlefoot and my birds a mixture of thawed frozen fruit and vegetables (it's cheaper and lasts a lot longer) which, depending on what I scoop out of the container can include:

Peas
Carrots
Corn
Green beans
Black eyed peas
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Sugar snap pea pods
Mushrooms
Celery
Okra
Red/ green pepper

Strawberries
Mango
Pineapple

I also give them whatever fresh fruit I have. Recently it's been grapes, oranges and apples. I've been trying to get Littlefoot to eat spinach leaves but he won't even try it. There is also bird seed, henry's healthy blocks, cuttlebone, mineral block, and an antler is in cage at all times. Occasionally he gets a piece or two of dry cat food and every night he gets to pick out an in-shell nut from the top of his cage.

Am I feeding him something I shouldn't? Or not feeding something I should?

[Jackie in Tampa]

add green leafy veggies {romaine, kale, collards etc}
also add mushrooms to his diet, daily!!!!!
Spinich should only be fed occasionally.

and yogurt, he needs yogurt daily..try mealworms too, and chicken chips from the dog treat isle...dry oatmeal is something else I feed my flyers...

hoping others can give you better advise...
but the diet you have posted, although it is a large list, it doesn't have the variety that is needed to keep Littlefoot in captivity and healthy.

Just a quick tip about metabolisim...
in order for mammels to process calcium, you must have vit D for the calcium to be absorbed and made reday for the body to use.
The pills that are made for humans are off ratio wise, so not helpful.
I try to use as much naturally derived vitamins as possible.
There are 4 places where D is found
the sun
dairy
fish and MUSHROOMS.
since flyers are nocturnal, that removes the sun from our options

and most sqs do not like fish, although I do have recipes they like with cod liver oil

and if you add FV to their yogurt you will really covering all bases.. but either way, offer a wee bit of yogurt on a dish

and feed mushrooms daily..
I do not advise picking mushrooms to save money, there have been members who have accidentally poisoned their sqs with the wrong shrooms.

If you can video your sq when you think he is seizing, someone will know.

reguardless, the above is needed to keep him happy and healthy.
good luck

[Littlefoot]

Littlefoot had another seizure last night. I didn't have my camera out and it was over before I could get it so I don't have a video. I just got him out of his cage and walked into the kitchen to get his food ready. He was on my back. I heard a thump and turned around to find him on the floor. I'm not sure if he fell or jumped. He was just standing there twitching his head to the left. I scooped him up. He twitched a few more times then just laid in my hand. He didn't curl up this time or close his eyes. But it was like he wasn't aware of what was going on around him. I tried holding a nut up to his nose and he didn't even smell it. After a few minutes he started moving again and was ok.

I tried giving him yogurt but he didn't really eat it. I bought some yogurt covered treats at the pet store and he loves those. Not sure if he's eating the mealworms or if they just crawl out of his bowl. I haven't seen any in the bottom of his cage but I haven't seen him eat any either. I'm offering fresh button mushrooms every night.

I tweaked his diet but I don't know what else to do. I'm searching for a vet to take him to but no luck so far. I tried to get ahold of a wildlife rehab place close to where I live to see what they do with their injured animals but I haven't gotten a response yet. I'll try again tomorrow. Possibly contact the zoo and see if their vets can help.

Any other advice?

[Jackie in Tampa]

I am sorry to hear you have seen another seizure. You must change his diet asap.
Please do not give yogurt treats from pet store, they are not ideal. However you can get yogurt treats for humans at the HEALTH FOOD STORE>
Most stuff from Pet stores is JUNK/GARBAGE!
anything Hartz is garbage...I can even say I hate Kay-tee...CRAPola!
TReats are not nutrition. Do not fill his belly unless it is healthy.
Did you see him eat any of the worms?
Last night I gave my flyers cream cheese...I got more wet gooey kisses than ever!

Taking him to a rehab center is sealing his fate... They will not have the individual time to even notice his seizures. He will not like being with strangers in a strange place. If you are at a loss and need someone to take him, we can help with that. Please do not take him anywhere and leave him. He will get lost in the numbers.

Did you try formula again? How about diluted natural fruit juice with crushed calcium tablet in it, syringe fed. Will he? These littles can be stubborn, but ya gotta try...he needs help.
Thank you for trying...he can get well...we'll just keep on his tiny hinee til he does!:Love_Icon
Thanks for all you're doing!

[Nancy in New York]

I am sorry to hear you have seen another seizure. You must change his diet asap.
Please do not give yogurt treats from pet store, they are not ideal. However you can get yogurt treats for humans at the HEALTH FOOD STORE>
Most stuff from Pet stores is JUNK/GARBAGE!
anything Hartz is garbage...I can even say I hate Kay-tee...CRAPola!
TReats are not nutrition. Do not fill his belly unless it is healthy.
Did you see him eat any of the worms?
Last night I gave my flyers cream cheese...I got more wet gooey kisses than ever!

Taking him to a rehab center is sealing his fate... They will not have the individual time to even notice his seizures. He will not like being with strangers in a strange place. If you are at a loss and need someone to take him, we can help with that. Please do not take him anywhere and leave him. He will get lost in the numbers.


Did you try formula again? How about diluted natural fruit juice with crushed calcium tablet in it, syringe fed. Will he? These littles can be stubborn, but ya gotta try...he needs help.
Thank you for trying...he can get well...we'll just keep on his tiny hinee til he does!:Love_Icon
Thanks for all you're doing!

So true Jackie...about the rehab center....:shakehead
With a little time, we can probably find him a fantastic home...:thumbsup

[Littlefoot]

I wasn't planning on dropping him off at the rehab center. I was just trying to find out what vet they used. Unfortunately they got back to me with semi bad news. Their vet won't treat animals that are unlicensed to have. Flyers are legal here but I didn't realize you had to have a license to own a flyer in Indiana. So I got ahold of the DNR, application is on it's way.

I'll keep trying with yogurt. Maybe he just didn't like the flavor. What supplements should I get? I was looking at calcium supplements at the pet store but read that flyers need calcium with D2 and all the ones they had had D3. I got Littlefoot when he was already weaned so I've never fed him formula.

He seems fine other than the occasional seizure. He's very active and eating well. No mood changes or any unusual behavior.

[mugzeezma]

I wasn't planning on dropping him off at the rehab center. I was just trying to find out what vet they used. Unfortunately they got back to me with semi bad news. Their vet won't treat animals that are unlicensed to have. Flyers are legal here but I didn't realize you had to have a license to own a flyer in Indiana. So I got ahold of the DNR, application is on it's way.

I'll keep trying with yogurt. Maybe he just didn't like the flavor. What supplements should I get? I was looking at calcium supplements at the pet store but read that flyers need calcium with D2 and all the ones they had had D3. I got Littlefoot when he was already weaned so I've never fed him formula.

He seems fine other than the occasional seizure. He's very active and eating well. No mood changes or any unusual behavior.

Seizures destroy braincells...They may get worse, get better, or stay the same...Thanks a lot right?
The thing is that this is not normal and until you know what the cause is there is really no way to cure it. It may be an old head trauma or dietary deficiency. It may be be parasitic in nature too.
Release is not an option.
Do you have a veterinarian?
Where are you in IN
We may be able to help you here in IL...I have some people to talk to if you are interested.

[Jackie in Tampa]

again, I will reiterate...the VITAMINS you can buy at the store for HUMANS do not have the proper ratios of Calcium to D...:nono

IMO, you will need to adjust his diet immediately..I recommend HHBs
Henry's Healthy Blocks. They are Made to order, designed for squirrels, no preservatives and can be made at home or ordered on line.There is NO OTHER food specifically formulated for sqs!
I urge you to try them, your sqs health and seizure activity will improve reguardless with a diet change.
Nutrition is key to all sqs in captivity!

Here are the links for more info!
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21233

Henry's Website
http://henryspets.com/

Here is a link to the Nutrition forum for many healthy diet related threads.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191


I have a really good friend in Indiana that is in the human medical field that is also a sq rehabber, if you would like her info I would love to share it.

Please do not hesitate, this issue is urgent...seizures are an indication something isn't right, and I am being honest when I say, they will be followed by death unless intervention is done.
Good Luck and God Bless!

the license is outta my ball park, ugh...:dono

[SquirrelsinSingapore]

Just my 2 cents,
But i read it here that corns could block vitamin C intake...
so you might want to reduce corn intake for your pet...

hope it gets better

[Jackie in Tampa]

Just my 2 cents,
But i read it here that corns could block vitamin C intake
so you might want to reduce corn intake for your pet

Cheers
lets hope it gets better:)
corn is loaded with PHOSPHORUS!
that blocks calcium absorbtion!:thumbsup
sunflower seeds too!:nono

[Littlefoot]

I have henrys healthy blocks. Littlefoot gets one every night. He mostly hoards them though. Still offering yogurt. He usually only gets a kernel or two of corn at a time so I'll just cut those out altogether for now. I gave him 3 or 4 mealworms tonight. How else am I supposed to adjust his diet?

[Skul]

Checking up on the little one.

To be honest, the diet isn't all that bad.:)
Just could use a little adjustment.
One or two kernels of corn won't cause harm, so no worry there.
Celery is a waste.
Cut the carrots to one small piece.
No hamster/bird seed.
Try giving a cooked chicken bone sometime. They like those.
Don't forget to remove it the next day.
(they also like cooked chicken meat..unseasoned of course)
One thing I might suggest is you make sure you're using a natural yogert.
There are some that are processed artificially, those you steer away from.

Personally, I'd drop the cat food chunk. The HHB's are better, even if the stinker is hoarding them.

Thinking of which, you might think about cleaning his stash out on a regular basis.
If the stashes are old, they may have begun to mold.:shakehead

I think Jackie mentioned FV.
May not hurt to get some.
You can try feeding as formula from a syringe, or even just dust his veggies with it.

Drop a note in here and let us know how he's been doing.

[Kristal]

Well, I can't contribute much here, but the Black eyed peas are not good if they are dried. I was so happy when Rifa took a liking for dried fava beans, but it turns out that there is a chemical in them which interferes with protein digestion. So long as dried beans are cooked, they are ok, though...

[Littlefoot]

Littlefoot had another seizure since I last posted. It didn't seem as bad this time. My mom was holding him, well more like he was sitting on her hand, and he chirped a couple times. This time he seemed more conscious and the only way I could tell anything was happening was because he was opening and closing his mouth like he was chewing. I scooped him up and held him until he started moving again.

The yogurt I got was just plain yogurt at the grocery store. The peas are frozen not dried. I open a new pack of HHB that I had in the freezer and Littlefoot is actually eating those. Maybe the other ones where stale? I'm feeding him only those for a few hours before giving him the veggies and stuff. Also, he's eating the mealworms. It's now the first thing he picks out of his bowl. I usually give 5 a night.

Umm what else? I don't know where to get formula from.

[Kristal]

You can buy FV formula online here:

http://foxvalleynutrition.com/prod/details.asp?CID=1&PLID=1

And don't forget to give no more than 2 HHBs a day :thumbsup

[Littlefoot]

So far littlefoot hasn't had any more seizures. He's acting normal and everything seems okay. I'll keep you all posted if anything changes.

[Tickle's Mom]

:thumbsup

[Littlefoot]

Still no seizures. If it has been happening, it would have to be in his nestbox or when I'm not around. But Littlefoot's acting normal so I think everything is okay. I moved last month and he LOVES the apartment. He get's to run around all over and I strung ropes across the ceiling so he can play up higher. So far so good. Hope it stays that way.

[island rehabber]

Great news, Littlefoot! I'll move this thread to Non Life-threatening... :thumbsup

[Littlefoot]

Just witnessed another seizure.:( I'll post details later today.

[pappy1264]

Crap. I'm sorry. Waiting for details, prayers started.

[Littlefoot]

It was about 4:30 this morning. I got up and took littlefoot out of his cage. About a minute later he peed on me then started going into convulsions shortly after. It took about 5 minutes for him to recover. I guess a change in his diet was only a temporary fix.

[pappy1264]

I'm so sorry. Seizures are so tough, as they can be caused from such a number of things. Sending prayers out. I have never experienced them myself, but hopefully others will chime in soon with some more ideas.

[Mrs Skul]

Little foot Keep pushing the FV and the CALCIUM! It takes a long time to get enough calcium into the blood stream and the bones. Are you giving any Protein? LittleFoot will need to keep taking protein at the same time. Henry's Health Blocks sales a Protein powder with calcium in it. That will help with protein only. And give you some extra calcium. I am dealing with a VERY VERY BAD MBD FLYING SQIIRREL right now. When I get the calcium in, then she eats the wax worms like crazy. When she crashes. I give a protein powder mixed with baby food veg. If you have to go buy Baby food Chicken!!! Give her some of that. I am also feeding Apple ButterNut Squash, And a separate jar of Peas. I mix the Protein powder into that. I still push as much of the calcium I can get her to take. She is now taking Flavored Tums to. She does not like the Calcium powder. :shakehead
Good luck and it still takes time.
PS
Can you take her to the Vet for a calcium injection?
She really needs that to stop the seizures.
Every time They seize They loose Calcium.:shakehead
You also need to keep him warm.
He can't regulate his body temperature.
Use a heat pad if you are not holding him.
Still cover him with the heat, while down your shirt.
You are in my prayers. CM918

[Mrs Skul]

I just read some of the thread. He has to have protein too. Go buy baby food Chicken. Make him take it. Mix The Calcium powder in with the chicken. Is there anyone around you that has FV. Start giving him that. You need to get the yellow pages out! Start calling all vets tell them what is going on. Call the exotic vet. They are more willing to work with you. Tell them he is a Sugar Glider! :D Just get him in the room with the vet. Tell them that is what you thought he was. Make sure they know how long you have had him. Tell them you are applying for the license. Tell them he will die if they will not see him. Cry on the phone. Do what you have to to get him in for the Calcium injection. He has to stop the seizing. :grouphug I don't wont you to take this the wrong way. I just am going through the same thing right now. Good luck with the vets. :grouphug Hang in there LittleFoot.:Love_Icon

[4skwerlz]

Note: for a flyer, the calcium amount should be reduced by half, and adjusted up or down as necessary.

Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW.
Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:
-Tums, rolaids, or calcium supplement (any kind)
-a syringe or spoon
Crush one pill and add a little water or fruit juice to make a paste. Use the syringe or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. The first day, give a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, spread throughout the day/night to maintain blood calcium levels.

Important!

1. Any kind of calcium pill is okay for the initial dose. But you must use PLAIN calcium pills (without Vit D) from then on.
2. Try to give many small doses of calcium throughout the day/night to keep blood calcium levels as steady as possible.
3. If seizures or paralysis worsen or return, give another emergency dose, but only for one day, and make sure you check back in to TSB for help as relapses can be very serious.

The acute symptoms (weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis) will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones. (See the "Long-Term Treatment for MBD" http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...321#post487321)

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel confined to a small cage and away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.



Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093)
Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can either buy them or make your own squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Use a syringe or spoon, or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.
Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day
If acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel confined to a small cage and away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone.

[Littlefoot]

I'll head to the store and get some tums and baby food. I also bought yogurt yesterday but I wasn't sure what kind to get. I ended up getting organic yogurt for babies, it was basically the only kind that didn't say lowfat/nonfat. Where can I get calcium powder? I give Littlefoot at least 3 mealworms a night. Would it help if I start giving him more?

I sent out my application for a license a month or so ago but I never heard from them. I'm sending out another one tomorrow. Maybe it got lost or I sent it to the wrong place.

I wish flyers were more common around here. I don't know anyone else close that has one. This is stressful:shakehead. I'm going to call around to all the vets tomorrow morning. Hopefully one of them will help me. Other than that the vet I know that deals with wildlife will only treat an animal if its licensed. Maybe I'll call the zoo....

[Mrs Skul]

Visit the Henry's Healthy Pets website: http://henryspets.com
You can order some Calcium powder from Henry's. She also carries a protean calcium mineral powder if you need it. :thinking If he will eat the worms now yes start giving him at least 4 to 5. Also you can give freeze dried chicken chunks. This is a dog treat. PetsMart carries them. Is he still having seizers?
Keep pushing the Tums/calcium.
I am praying for you and LittleFoot to pull through. CM918
PS
Do you have Cuttle bone in the cage with him?
What about Calcium Mineral chew.
You can find this all at Petsmart.
The mineral/ calcium chew are like a ice Cream cone.
Harts ,moon, stars, is a pkg of 3 also pkg of 3 sticks like thing with calcium icing on top.
You will find them in the Rat, Rabbit,GinnyPig, and Hamster, section.

[Littlefoot]

I bought some calcium carbonate last night from henrys. Can I put some in his water? Littlefoot has a mineral block, a cuttlebone, and an antler in his cage. I haven't seen any more seizures. I don't have a heating pad so I turned the temp up in my apt and gave him some extra fluff.

Thanks for all the help. I'll keep updating if anything happens.

Edit: I also have a sugar glider. Should I do what I'm doing now if he started seizing?

[CritterMom]

The calcium doesn't dissolve - it will just sink to the bottom of the bottle. Better to hide it in things - it has almost no flavor. Sprinkle on veggies, hide in yogurt, hide in a little almond butter, if somebody likes fruit juice you can mix and syringe feed...smear a little between two thin slices of avocado (do flyers like it?) or almost anything he eats.

[Littlefoot]

I gave Littlefoot a tums tonight. He seemed to like it and kept nibbling/licking it for awhile then he dropped it. I tried giving him some baby food that was vegetable chicken. He took one lick and made a yucky face. I put some in his dish anyway. He did eat a whole superworm though and a spoonful of yogurt along with his normal food. I haven't given him any nuts or corn in the last few days. He hasn't been very active but still responds to me and wants to come out of the cage. Mostly though he just stays in his box. I also bought a new mineral block for him.

[Jackie in Tampa]

AS a maintainance program in the future, if he eats yogrut as most flyers do, add FV to his yogurt daily, for life.

Adding the calcium to his yogurt for the next week or so is important to get his blood calcium levels elevated, but after he is back to normal acting, try the FV then.

I am sorry he is having seizures, you can try rubbing molasses on his gums during and after seizures.
If you don't have a heating pad, make a rice buddy...heat feels so good when they are having body aches from MBD.
Walgreens and Henry's Pets have them for good price, be sure to get the NO SHUT OFF type. You don't want the AUTOMATIC shut off type.:shakehead

good luck:Love_Icon

[Littlefoot]

Littlefoot is doing better since I started giving him the tums. He's been more active and wanting to come out and play. Still haven't gotten him to eat any of the chicken baby food but he is eating mealworms.

[Mrs Skul]

:morning LittleFoot
Is he eating any of the Fresh Vegatables? Try buying regular meal worms. The Supper worms are not good for the Flyers. Because they are full of growth hormones. Try buying some WaxWorms. You can get them from PetCo. You can order them right off line to, in container of 50. You should be giving your Sugar Glider these worms to. Talk to Pappy about the Gliders Diet. :thumbsup She can help you out with that.
I need to ask you a question???
In your thread be for LittleFoot got sick. You were getting 2 more baby Flying Squirrels! :thinking My Opinion You should wait till you get these 2 straiten out be for you bring 2 more into the mix. You need to find a VET that will treat your Squirrels and Glider , before adding to your collection. :thumbsup
I am sure glad Little foot is feeling a little better now. Did you order the FoxVally yet? Have you gotten the Heating pad. He is going to be very ache for a while. He need the heat. You can add the calcium to the yogurt. Just not to much. It does make it taste a little different. :D You can still give little foot a piece of pecan or nut once a day after the veg have eaten on.

[Littlefoot]

I actually completely forgotten about getting more squirrels. I decided to only get one but I'm not sure if that's going to happen now. I still have awhile to decide. The breeder I'm getting them from says he has them in the fall also so I might just wait until then.

I have been giving Littlefoot mealworms. I only had a few superworms I got from a friend to try. He doesn't particularly like them.

I have a heating pad but I'm not sure how to use it. He's never been one to just let me hold him. I used to carry him around in my sweatshirt pocket so maybe I can get him to lay there with the pad under it?

He seems to have taken a step backward, back to being in his box for the majority of the night. I also noticed he wasn't eating his veggies and now yogurt. I put his food close to his box so he wouldn't have to go very far to get to it, but it looked nearly untouched the next morning. I got some calcium carbonate now and a new batch of flyer blocks. He took of those from me while he was in his box so hopefully he's eating it.

[pappy1264]

Ok, at this point, you are going to need to force the issue. Do you have a syringe? You need to get ahold of him (wear gloves if you have to) and start getting that formula in him. This is very bad that he is just sleeping alot. He is in serious trouble (and I am sorry if I am coming across rude, I don't mean to be, but have just watched to many babies just crashing as of late and my heart hurts.) If he is not eating, you have to get food into him. You can also put his food into a blender, and make a 'shake' for him, to get his food into him (be sure to add the calcium to it).

Put the heating pad under half his cage and cover his cage to hold the heat in on three sides.

[island rehabber]

:goodpost Mary's got it right: tough love is needed to save this little one.

[Tickle's Mom]

:grouphug :grouphug

[Littlefoot]

Yes I have a small 1cc syringe. His cage is too big for the heating pad to work. Should I put him in like a fish tank to use it? I'll be home in about an hour and I'll make him a shake in a food processor. I also bought bean sprouts, alfalfa sprouts, and fresh mushroom to see if he'll eat those.

I'll post again later tonight. I don't want to lose him...:( :Cry

[Littlefoot]

Also, I found a vet to take Littlefoot. I just have to prove I'm in the process of getting a license. I'm going to be taking him there shortly after I get home.

[Jackie in Tampa]

take him or see him?

[Littlefoot]

They are going to see him. Hopefully theres something they can do to help. I'm going to see if I can get a calcium injection. I'm headed home now, about an hour away, so it'll be about 1.5 - 2 hours before I'm actually at the vet.

I'll post the results when I get back.

[Jackie in Tampa]

a calcium injection is good FOR THE MOMENT...
unless you take Littlefoot back daily...
you will still need to amend the diet and get calcium into him on a regular basis..:grouphug
I love that he is going to vet though! Yippee!:alright.gif
Please use a chew proof carrier.... and keep it covered, no loud music in the car, If there are barking dogs inside clinic, wait outside with Littlefoot and asked to be called in when a room is ready!
{just a few sq vet trip tips:D }
Take a treat of course, a sq with a nut in his mouth, seldom drops it to bite...
that's not true of all sqs however!...:shakehead
Madeline got me good! she dropped the nut...:shakehead
Thank you!:Love_Icon

[Littlefoot]

I just got home to pick up Littlefoot. I got him to eat part of a bean sprout and part of a mushroom so at least he's eating something. Of course I'll keep up with his diet but I'll go back every day for an injection if that's what he needs.

Here we go...

[CritterMom]

I think it is great that you are going to have a vet look at him, but syringe feeding him calcium mixed in with just about anything - juice, yogurt, formula, whatever, is going to be a whole lot less traumatic for him than daily trips to the vet for owie injections. It may take a bit to figure out what he likes but I would sure start some experimenting.

[Mrs Skul]

Yes I have a small 1cc syringe. His cage is too big for the heating pad to work. Should I put him in like a fish tank to use it? I'll be home in about an hour and I'll make him a shake in a food processor. I also bought bean sprouts, alfalfa sprouts, and fresh mushroom to see if he'll eat those.

I'll post again later tonight. I don't want to lose him...:( :Cry

Little foot. I don't think Bean sprouts or Alfalfa Sprouts are good for Squirrels???:thinking :nono I am Think out loud hear! :dono Did you find them in the nutrition forum? I think I read it some where. If some one knows pleases chime in. Mushrooms are good. Go out side and find some dandelion flowers and the green plant. That is great. JUST MAKE sure there is no pesticides or fertilizer that had been sprayed on them.
He needs Calcium injection and if dehydrated probably fluids. He will also need the calcium in food, yogurt. Roll the worms around in the Calcium Powder. Tums water scenes he liked it. Calcium water taste bad. YUKKKKK!:D Still keep fresh water in the cage for him to. Are you feeding him the FV? You can add a little Calcium th that to.
CM918

[Littlefoot]

OKAY! Finally back home from the vet, dropped Littlefoot off, went to class, and came back.

Here's what the vet said:
They can't know for sure whats causing the seizures unless they do testing. In order to do that he would probably have to be sedated. She went ahead and gave him the calcium injection, checked his eyes and heart, and weighed him. She told me to just keep doing what I'm doing and if it doesn't improve or he starts to seizure again to come in and try an antiseizure med to control it. Also, the vet said that when my paperwork for my license goes through she would be happy to sign it for me because other than the seizures he appears healthy and well taken care of.

You should of seen her trying to catch him! He's never really been the type to just sit with/on you. Littlefoot is always running around and never holds still. He kept wiggling out of the little towel she was using and hiding on her back. But he was a good little boy and never tried to bite the vet, even though it was probably stressful for him. He did pee on her though...

I don't know if bean/alfalfa sprouts are good or bad. If there bad I won't give him any more. I was just trying to find some veggies he would eat (besides corn and lima beans). I don't have any formula. I don't think he was raised on formula so I don't know how he would react to it.

Right now he's being really active. I actually had a hard time getting him back into his cage. I walked in the door and heard "skrit-skrit-skrit". He was chewing on a nut. Apparently I didn't find all of his stashes!

[Littlefoot]

Here's a couple pics from tonight. He's eating a mushroom.

[sdreamcatcher]

Aww hes Gorgeous!! Love those eyes. Just read this whole post and don't have anything to add. My only experience with critters like these was a sugar glider I took home from my job one night who was having seizures He had run out of water and started having seizures shortly after having his water replenished. Evil pet store owner wanted to leave him in the back room by himself all night. I took him for a day; gave him rescue remedy and all the foods I thought he should have with my limited knowledge (researched online), and my co-worker took him back to the store the next day. I should have told the owner he died, and rehomed him. To be honest I was fascinated by him but terrified I would do something wrong to make him worse. He did stop having seizures, and my co-worker later told me he got a great home. But I hate that the owner profited off of him; she didn't care either way if he lived or died.

ANYWAY, I just wanted you to know I am keeping him in my thoughts/prayers. He is an amazing looking little guy.

[pappy1264]

I would get some fox valley and see if he will take it. If not, you can always make him boo balls (or the cookies Kelly makes) and see if he will eat them. Is he eating yogurt? Then put fv into his yogurt (I also add a little heavy cream to it, as Jett is on the smaller side). All four of my flyers will eat it that way (and the other three came as adults and most likey been a long time if they even ever had formula...pretty sure Luna was wild caught from how she acted when she first came here!)

He is beautiful!!!

[Littlefoot]

Littlefoot seems to be doing better. He's eating for the most part. His diet is now 1 rodent block then veggies, yogurt, mealworms, and a small piece of fruit along with the calcium powder. He has two waterbottles, one with just water and one that has tums mixed in it. He's being more active, still not as much as normal but he's not sleeping all night either. Is there anything else I can do?

Note to self: After taking a late night shower, DO NOT decide to feed a flyer before putting on clothes. He will jump out, use you as a tree, and use his claws to dig into your bare skin to hold on. You will have scratches everywhere and it will look like you got mauled by a tiny bear.:hurt

[pappy1264]

Have you tried giving him chicken? He needs more animal protein then he is receiving. Or try scrambled eggs (you can even put a tiny amount of cheese in it to make it more palatable for him.) Have you picked up the Prime Freeze Dried Chicken or the Canyon River Creek Poppers? My flyers like both. They are chicken, that is it. This baby needs to get more protein into him on a regular basis. Mealworms are not enough (and so you know, mealworms have a bad calcium/phosphorus ratio, so don't go crazy with feeding them.)

I'm glad he seems to be going in the right direction with getting more calcium, but that is only one part of this picture.

[Littlefoot]

I tried giving him a piece of boiled egg the other night but he didn't touch it. I'll try some plain boiled chicken tonight. I'm still offering the chicken baby food but he won't eat it. He gets 3 mealworms a night, it's the first thing he eats so I make sure those have calcium on them. What about lunchmeat like ham? I figured it would have to much preservatives or whatever in it but I have some ham in the fridge. I'm going to the pet store today to get waxworms. Also, I just weighed Littlefoot. He weighs 82g. Is this a good/bad weight for an adult male flyer?

Edit: Do flyers like pinky mice?

[Mrs Skul]

NO LUNCHMEAT!!!:nono
Only Chicken and Chicken Bones,Boiled or Scrambled, eggs and shells. At PetsMart you can find dog Treats. They are Freeze Dried Chicken Chunks. Made By Prime Bites., VitaLife makes Chicken Chips and Chicken Poppers. WalMart carries a type of Poppers and chicken Chip. Not sure the name brand. My flyers love the all. :Love_Icon Plus the wax worms. Put a piece of the chicken chip and freeze dries chicken in the cage and watch for him to eat it.
It can stay in the cage for a long time. As long as it does not get wet!!!:D
Little Foot. PM your Phone number and address. I can call you and walk you through this. We also have a member who lives 2 hr away from you.
She can call and help with feeding instruction. You really need to get some FV.
A 1lb bag will last you for a year or so. Just put it in the freezer. Pull out what you are going to use and back in the freezer with rest.:thumbsup3


PS
No Pinkie Mice! :D
82 gm That is a great wt. :thumbsup3
We just need to balance his meals out.
Stop the baby food chicken. That was to syringe feed him when the seizers were going on.

[Littlefoot]

Ok I have some FV now. What are boo balls? Littlefoot is acting more normal everyday (night?). I haven't seen any more seizures and he's eating his veggies. I got waxworms. He like to suck out their insides then eat the skin...yuck!

My permit is still in the making. DNR comes tuesday to inspect the cage. Ran into a little problem but hopefully I can get that resolved this weekend.

I got him to eat some boiled chicken. I'll look for those chicken treats when I'm at the store next.

[Littlefoot]

It's about 2am here. Seizure. The first one in twenty days. Excitement or stimulation triggers them. Littlefoot was happily running around my living room when he just stopped. It looked like he was frantically pawing his face and ears. He kinda fell to his side. I placed my hand over him to try and calm him down, he stopped convulsing. I watched for a moment to make sure he kept his eyes open. I ran and got the camera. The seizure itself was to only lasted a few seconds but I snapped a pic of him while he was still on the floor. I scooped him up and stuck him in my shirt and he's been there since.

Could this be something else other than MBD, like epilepsy? Why is did this still happen?

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi LittleFoot
You need to go read about some of the bad cases of MBD! This will take a LONG TIME to get his Calcium Levels and body straight. Maybe a year or so. But you will always always have to push the calcium for a while.
That is why you have to listen to the EXPERINCE REHABBERS. Talk To 4Skwerlz! She can tell you all about it. BUT it will not work if you don't follow the instructions. There is a Rehabber close to you LynninIN. Send her a Email or PM. I thank she has already been told about you and LittleFoot case. She might have all ready tried contacting you. :dono
It is not just the calcium. It is all the other vitamins that helps out one another.
(Magnesium, Vitamin D, Protean, Calcium. All the vitamins & trace Minerals!))
If there is not enough of one the other will have trouble absorbing won another.) One thing to remember SFSquirrels make their own Vitamin D,
and do need Mushrooms a few times a week. Mine eat them every night.:D I am not trying to confuse you. I am still learning about MBS my self.
Just when I think my little one is working through it. BOOM 10 steps back. I start all over again. Keep going back to the Nutrition and the Food Charts.
They will help you.
Every time LittleFoot has a seizer. He will loose a lot of his calcium that had been built back up. You will start over again.
You need to have Just 1 watter bottle. Take out the Calcium water Bottle. The Calcium just sinks to the bottom and he will get nothing out of it.
Give him a tums to chew on. :D If he devourers it, give him another the next day. Are you feeding any FV Formula? Have you added FV into his yogurt? You can also add a little extra calcium powder to it to.:D (To many tototototototototototos!):rotfl
Your Picture did not come in. Can you repost it? If the excitement sets them off. Then slow him down and his activities .:eek:
I Know that will be like putting a leash on the Space shuttle.:D But you need to find some way to do this.
Now is this his first seizure since he has been in RECOVERY? Is he eating all his Veg and leafy greens, and Mushrooms.
What about Bugs and Chicken chunks or Chicken chips? :thinking I pray for you two every night. Hang in their. It will get a little easer. :grouphug

[pappy1264]

Mrs. Skul is right. MBD can take a very long time, and it tends to be an ongoing issue, in other words, he will always be more prone to it even after he has seemingly 'recovered'. Based on all the things I have seen, I believe this is MBD. Keep doing what you are doing. With the eggs, you can add a tiny bit of cheese to entice him to eat it (got mine to eat it...and the cheese has calcium, so that is good.) I would also look into getting a light for him (if you don't have one already). You can go on bird sites to find good ones. I know flyers are nocturnal, but even nocturnal animals will get benefit from light and artificial is better then nothing. Has he been actually eating his food (or is he stashing it?) They can be like little kids with broccoli (hiding it or giving it to the dog under the table)....looks like they ate it, but.....Prayers continue for this little guy. He is beyond adorable and it is so hard to think he is having these issues.

[Littlefoot]

I talked to 4Skwerlz on the phone before I took him to the vet. I took the other water bottle out and refilled it with just water. I'm mixing the FV and some calcium powder into his yogurt every night. He seems to be eating that first so I'm giving him as much as he wants because I know it's got vitamins and minerals he needs in it. He was eating his veggies, I figured out he likes brussels sprouts, but after the seizure his appatite has gone down, he still eats the yogurt though. Other than that I looked at what he ate last night and it looked like just his yogurt, a waxworm (he left the other two in his bowl), and nibbled on some veggies. I bought some chicken treats. I couldn't find the exact ones but I found some freeze dried chicken bits so I gave him a peice and he's been nibbling on it. I have to keep looking for it in his nextbox to make sure. That was the first seizure he's had since the one a few days before I took him to the vet.

What should I do if he has another seizure? I've been reading up on animal seizures and I found alot of sites said to basically do nothing, especially if the seizures are caused by stimulation. They said to shut lights off or cover their face to remove light, don't talk, and try not to touch them unless they might hurt themselves. This was about dogs though.

I can see the pictures but I'll post them again later once I'm on my computer. I was trying to catch it on video but it didn't last long enough. Hopefully this is good that don't last more than a minute.

[4skwerlz]

Hi there. I'm so sorry Littlefoot had another seizure.

How much calcium have you been giving Littlefoot every day (in mgs)? Obviously, you need to increase either the amount or the frequency.

[Littlefoot]

Well to be honest I don't know exactly how much. I have a scale but it reads in grams and I don't think it goes to decimals to do weight conversions. All of his food gets coated in the calcium powder. I've been mixing some calcium and some FV with yogurt on a spoon and feeding that to him several times a day for as long as he'll keep eating it. He also gets more yogurt/calcium/FV mix when I feed him.

I know before you said to give him 500mgs. That was before I had the powder and just tums so I could calculate how much he was getting by how much was in each tums. How much should I be giving him now? I'm going to play with my scale a little and see if I can maybe change the weight on it or get it to do decimals.

[4skwerlz]

Well to be honest I don't know exactly how much. I have a scale but it reads in grams and I don't think it goes to decimals to do weight conversions. All of his food gets coated in the calcium powder. I've been mixing some calcium and some FV with yogurt on a spoon and feeding that to him several times a day for as long as he'll keep eating it. He also gets more yogurt/calcium/FV mix when I feed him.

I know before you said to give him 500mgs. That was before I had the powder and just tums so I could calculate how much he was getting by how much was in each tums. How much should I be giving him now? I'm going to play with my scale a little and see if I can maybe change the weight on it or get it to do decimals.

You must know how much. For an MBD squirrel, the calcium needs to be dosed very carefully and consistently; like insulin for a diabetic.

If you have the calcium powder, you can dose it according to the label: for example, 1/4 tsp = 330 mg calcium.

You can weigh the calcium carbonate powder, but realize that calcium always comes as a compound of calcium + something else, so 1 gram of calcium carbonate does not equal 1,000 mg of elemental calcium; 1 gram of calcium carbonate powder only contains 400 mg of elemental calcium.

So, to get 500 mg elemental calcium you need just under a 1/2 teaspoon of calcium carbonate powder. Per day. If using Tums is easier for you, then use those. It's very important that you dose the calcium accurately. Never rely on calcium in the water bottle.

[Littlefoot]

Thanks for making it clearer. I have measuring spoons so I can definitely do that!

[Littlefoot]

Little bit of good news. Before I was adding the FV to Littlefoot's yogurt but today I tried to feed it to him mixed as formula. He ate it! I mixed up the calcium powder into the formula and I'll be feeding him again in a few hours. He ate about 3ml of it. I don't know if this is a good amount or not but as long as he'll eat it I'm happy. He kept trying to eat the syringe at first but got the hang of just licking it pretty quick.

[pappy1264]

If he will take it, even better! Woohoo....go Littlefoot, eat that good food!!!!

[Littlefoot]

Littlefoot seems, for a lack of better words, stable. Not much has changed. He's still eating the formula mixed with 500mg of calcium. As far as his level of activity and eating habits, it's been about the same for the last week or so. I don't want to trigger more seizures so I haven't let him out of cage since his last one. He never wants to go back in and gets really playful and excited when he's out.

In other news I went to the tattoo shop today. Got a side piece worked on and since I'm friends with the artist I got him to throw this in for free:

[Littlefoot]

I'm still giving Littlefoot 500mgs of calcium a day. When do I start decreasing this amount?

[jo_schmoe]

Nice tat!!
Someone should be on soon to let you know what the amounts should be if any different than what they are now.
Are you also supplementing Phosphorus, Magnesium and Vit D? These are just as important in captive squirrels as the calcium.
Littlefoot is nothing short of ADORABLE!!! :D :D

[Littlefoot]

May 8, 2011 11:56pm. Littlefoot had yet another seizure tonight. They seem to be getting worse. It takes him longer each time to recover from it. I gave him more formula/calcium mix as soon as he was able to eat it. He ate about 1.5cc. I don't know what else to do. Every time he has a seizure I start back over at square one. The vet told me that if he keeps having seizures to come in and I can get him some anti-seizure medicine. This is the second seizure he's has since then. Should I take him back in and get the medicine? I'm running out of options to help him. I'm still giving him formula every day along with calcium and vitamins and henry's blocks. He was eating and acting normal for the most part. I don't know what to do....:Cry :(

[gs1]

:grouphug

maybe you could pm 4swerlz for calcium dosage...as for the meds....i don't know....

mbd recovery is a long road...

hopefully someone will have advice for you tomorrow....:grouphug

:grouphug littlefoot:grouphug