Help with feeding [Archive] - The Squirrel Board

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 10:39 AM

island rehabber

11-17-2006, 10:53 AM

I have a 15 week old grey squirrel, he is a very picky eater and will not drink any water...How can I get him weaned onto water, any tricks?? Also he has started having siezures again, I can not get him to eat vegtables of any kind, nor rodent blocks...He does eat some dried fruits and nuts...I am thinking after reading all these posts that it is the calcium deficiency and I am heading out very soon to see what I can buy...I tried to talk to a vet not that long ago about him but she stopped me mid sentence and told me that if they knew I had a squirrel they would have to euthenize him immediatly, so that means no trips to the vet...I have had him since he was 5 weeks old...A young boy found him at the base of a tree...We left him there for around 5 hours, no mother, took him in over night and tried again the next day...I am seriously thinking this guy is deaf, he reacts to no noises what so ever...Any thoughts on that?? If I find the Cal-Tabs how much should I give him???
Thanks so much for your help,
Dianne

Dianne, I see multiple problems here. First of all, what is your squirrel drinking if not water? He must be hydrated somehow or he wouldn't still be alive, so what does he drink? Secondly, you said he's starting to have seizures again...when did he have them before and what was the cause? If he only eats dried fruits and nuts, you must stop the dried fruits. Squirrels don't need much fruit anyway, and dried fruits are loaded with extra sugar and chemical preservatives, usually. If you don't give him dried fruits he may be encouraged to nibble on some sweet potato or carrot or corn on the cob. He must be given some calcium, as you've said...try to get the Prime powder at your local pet store that sells bird supplies, and sprinkle it on whatever your squirrel eats. If he's already begun to have seizures it is imperative that you begin these dietary changes or, as an alternative, we can help you find a rehabber who may be able to help him. At 15 weeks he should be releasable soon, depending on the weather in your area, but not if he is in poor health, of course. If you are holding onto him, it's even more crucial that he gets a really good diet going, quickly. There is lots of great nutritional info here on the Board. :) :peace

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 11:28 AM

He is still on the puppy Esbilac....I will take away the fruits and try a sweet potato as that is one vegtable I hadn't tried...How many days can you let them refuse solids before you give in and give them back what you know they will eat???
We had him on the wrong type of formula in the beginning, that was when he had the seizures before...I had been in contact with a rehabber but she has disappeared on me, I have not recieved any return calls or e-mails..Thats how I found out about the formula and what to start feeding him..So now I come to you guys...
I have hand raised many animals in the past and it frustrates me that I can get a bunnie to take water but I can't get this squirrel to..Have hand raised very picky birds also with no probblems...Is it the wild factor possibly???
One last question you never commented on, what about hearing?? At this age shouldn't he be reacting to noises??
Thanks again.
PS...sent my mother to the store and I am reading posts now, looks like its going to be an all day job reading all the posts..lol

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom

11-17-2006, 11:46 AM

what kind of formula did you feed to start with?
If he is still drinking formula, thats probably why hes not drinking water, I wouldnt worry about that untill he isnt getting formula. Most squirrels have weaned themselfs by now.

Try kale & broccoli also for extra callcium.
What about light source is he getting sunlight everyday, 1 or 2 hours?
Or does he have a vitamin light?
The hearing I have no ideas about but yes you would think he would be responding to noises. I am not a rehabber but do know these facts. Good luck through I am sure a rehabber will be on shortly to help you.

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 12:19 PM

It was a puppy formula I got at the local feed store, some off brand I think...We could not find any esbilac within a 50 mile radius of us so we started looking on the net...He refuses broccoli, and greens...Broccoli was the first green I tried him on..I gave him fresh every day for 4 or 5 days along with other stuff ( carrots, green beans, corn)never touched it...Never tried the Primate biscuits, but tried rodent block,and dog food ( i know bad, but you hear so many different things) He ate fruit first then tried some nuts..Last couple of days I have tried broccoli again and some mustard greens...
He is laying under a full spectrum light as I type
This all started when I tried to take him off some of his formula feedings..Drooped from 2 a day to one..The siezures started...So I added the one feeding back....
I can't feed him formula for the rest of his life !! He needs to drink water and eat other stuff so he can go back to where he belongs..I am not clinging to him he is clinging to me !! lol
Thanks for the reply
Dianne

rygel1hardt

11-17-2006, 01:21 PM

Hey Gal it sounds like you are trying your best with this guy so please dont think you have to be defensive. I say so what if he isnt weaned. Some squirrels take formula longer than others and I have never cut any of mine off. They all decided for themselves when they wanted to wean and none are still taking milk. I am more concerned about the seizures since you say he is still getting formula he should be fine nutritionally and so the seizures shouldnt be calcium or vitamin D deficiency caused. You also mentioned that he is possibly deaf which may also be directly related to his seizing. He may have suffered a head trauma before he came to you which could have caused both the seizures and deafness. If this squirrel is truely deaf he in my opinion is NOT releasable! My first suggestion is to keep him on the Esbilac for as long as he will take it and give him as much as he wants at least four times a day and gradually introduce new foods daily. Very few nuts at first but do start with sweet potato, avacado, mushroom, kale, bits of apple, zuccini, pumpkin with the seeds still on it, etc. When you withheld the formula he might have had a blood sugar problem which could also cause the seizures. I never withold formula and give it for as long as they want it. Good luck and please keep us posted. Now that we are involved just know that we all care about this little guy and will want to have frequent updates! Stacey

It was a puppy formula I got at the local feed store, some off brand I think...We could not find any esbilac within a 50 mile radius of us so we started looking on the net...He refuses broccoli, and greens...Broccoli was the first green I tried him on..I gave him fresh every day for 4 or 5 days along with other stuff ( carrots, green beans, corn)never touched it...Never tried the Primate biscuits, but tried rodent block,and dog food ( i know bad, but you hear so many different things) He ate fruit first then tried some nuts..Last couple of days I have tried broccoli again and some mustard greens...
He is laying under a full spectrum light as I type
This all started when I tried to take him off some of his formula feedings..Drooped from 2 a day to one..The siezures started...So I added the one feeding back....
I can't feed him formula for the rest of his life !! He needs to drink water and eat other stuff so he can go back to where he belongs..I am not clinging to him he is clinging to me !! lol
Thanks for the reply
Dianne

Gabe

11-17-2006, 01:43 PM

I agree, probably not calcium deficiency, low blood sugar or head trauma is a good thought. Do you have a picture? Then we can see size of head, body mass, etc. Sometimes squirrels can have seizures from too little salt, isn't that weird? Yet we give them everything unsalted.

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 02:44 PM

I am sorry if I came across as defensive, that is not how I ment anything...I am just worried about this guy....We had some problems in the beginning because we were not well informed, then I found a rehabber to talk to and now she has disappeared on me...He hadn't had any seizures for weeks, wouldn't eat any veggies I tried to give him but was eating the dried fruits and nuts from the mix I bought from the squirrel store and was doing fine...The more I sit here and read the more I notice that is wrong with him...He has never been real active...I see that may be from a vit d defficency???? He had some natural daylight through a window but maybe not enough, I just stole the light from the lizzard and put on him...He is basking in it now...My mother found the cal-tabs but not the prime....What else besides the veggies can I give him to suppliment the vit d?? I don't think his probs have anything to do with low sugar, maybe to much sugar???
I am trying to search all possibilitys here...
I am trying to attach two pictures...The one in the cat carrier was from when he was about 7 weeks old and getting straightened out from the bad formula...The other picture is the best I can find of anything recent, this was last week..
Thanks again,
Dianne

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 03:09 PM

susanw

11-17-2006, 03:34 PM

This may be a dumb question, but do you have a hanging water bottle in his cage?

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 03:38 PM

Yes I do have a hanging water bottle in his cage...Its been there for about three weeks now..I change the water every other day and when I do I hold it for him, he takes a drink then basically spits it out and rejects it..Thats not milk !!!! he says..lol

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom

11-17-2006, 03:44 PM

:jump he sounds like a smart cookie..em I mean squirrel!

Gabe

11-17-2006, 06:42 PM

After I post stuff I think of more things !!! lol...Can they get to much calcium??? Cause if I keep him on the formula then I shouldn't suppliment calcium???
Whats your thoughts on the Vit D deficiency?? Could that cause the siezures?
Thanks,
Dianne
Yes, they can get too much calcium, it is called hypercalcemia. With opossums, they get rear leg weakness. Not sure what the symptoms are in squirrels. What happens is they deposit all the excess calcium in their joints and have difficulty moving around. If he is getting formula regularly, don't worry about calcium additives.
Can you describe the seizure, does it happen when he is drinking formula? Or when he is playing? Does he suddenly just stop what he is doing and flop around? How often does he have them?

rygel1hardt

11-17-2006, 07:44 PM

If he is still on formula then he shouldnt be vitamin D deficient!!! You are correct that he shouldnt have both a calcium supplement and formula as it isnt necessary. Also they dont get what they need from the sun through a window, windows block what they need.Why would you think he may be getting to much sugar? Stacey

After I post stuff I think of more things !!! lol...Can they get to much calcium??? Cause if I keep him on the formula then I shouldn't suppliment calcium???
Whats your thoughts on the Vit D deficiency?? Could that cause the siezures?
Thanks,
Dianne

Gabe

11-17-2006, 07:50 PM

rygel1hardt, I think she's been feeding him a dry fruit mix, with a high sugar concentrate.
You say he's never been very active. What are you basing that on? Have you raised squirrels before? How is his hearing and vision? Is he average size for his age?

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 08:32 PM

His siezures....I know when he starts to have them because his eyes start twitching, he throws himself around...Sometimes he throws his head backwards and every so often they start of with him screaming....I guess I should also note that these don't happen often, but when he does have them its usually twice in one day and then maybe once the next day...I am trying to think how many times he has had these episodes since he came to us...He was fine for the first week and a half then they started, that was when we had him on the wrong puppy formula...But we got that straightened up and only went through four or five seizures then...He was okay for about 4 weeks then he had probably about 5 or 6 siezures...This is when the screaming started...He never screamed with those first ones...And now he has started again...He had one about three days ago...He had two yesterday, and today he has had two and they were within minutes of each other....the others were had at least a couple of hours between them..
This may be a stupid question, but at the same time there are never any stupid questions...But when they listen for things won't their ears move to track the sound or find it??? I know he can move his ears but when ever I get behind him and clap or snap my fingers he just keeps on doing what ever it is he is doing, no ear movement, no looking up to check out the weird sound, no reaction at all...I am no optomitrist but his sight seems okay..
As for his activity level...He only has enough balance to sit on hind legs only for just a few seconds...He can't climb without falling off....He walks on all fours without wobbling but he doesn't seem to have any balance for anything else...I seen posts talking about other squirrels playing, he doesn't, he eats and sleeps and thats about it...I have no experience with squirrels but I do have experience with hand raising birds and baby bunnies....He just doesn't seem to be developing like others on here, and he is 15 weeks old..He is growing and I will weight him when I get back, I have to take my son to his grandmothers...
By the way I did end up finding the Prime, not sure if I want to do that or increase his amounts of feedings again...What do you think??
Thanks for all the replys,
Dianne

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 09:53 PM

I just weighed him...11 weeks ago tomorrow he weighed 2.2 oz...He now weights in at 9.5 oz and he is not skinny by any means...How does this compare to other 16 week old squirrels??? I am just guessing at his age..He had his eyes open when he was found and you could just start seeing his top teeth...Am I about right on his age??? He will have been in my care for 11 weeks tomorrow ( Saturady).
I just want to appologise for the way I sound in my posts..When I re read them they sound so stiff and kinda mean natured and thats not me at all..I am just not that great with words and since y'all can't see my expresions you don't know when I am joking, I forget the lols...Like the comment about being an optomitrist(sp?) my reply sounded rude and I appologise cause it was not ment to be...So over look my short comings and help me figure out what is wrong with this guy...
Like I said earlier, I do not have experience with squirrels, its just a feeling I have that there just is something not quite right with him...I kinda of compare his developement to the puppies, kitties,bunnies, birds I have hand raised from bottles....Before any of these guys are weaned they are up more than twice a day playing, he gets up two times a day for about 15 minutes or so then back to bed, no playing, just eat a little fruit and nuts or if I have him feeding him he finishes his milk then curls up in my hand and straight back to sleep...I usually have to wake him to feed him...He does love to cuddle and get his scratchy scratchys, but no playing...
Now I am rambling, sorry...
Thanks again,
Dianne

ACDsandAussies4me

11-17-2006, 10:03 PM

Whats their resperations and heart rate supossed to be???
Dianne

island rehabber

11-17-2006, 11:56 PM

I haven't been able to get specific heart rate/respiration numbers for you but will try to look that up. Here is a question, and I know it sounds odd: does your squirrel have a more pushed-in type face than the other squirrels outside? (More like a pug-nose face vs. pointed?) Do his limbs look a little shorter or stubbier than the others? I can't tell by that one recent picture, but I am just curious about something.

rygel1hardt

11-18-2006, 03:36 AM

Hey IR I bet you and I are thinking the same thing. From the one pic I saw I am thinking this is a down syndrome squirrel. I have only known of a few but his pic reminded me of them. They are usually very sweet and lovey. If this is the case then he wouldnt develope like other squirrels and may have many limitations and of course he would never be releaseable! If she would like I might be able to pass along her email address to someone who has had a down syndrome squirrel. Stacey

I haven't been able to get specific heart rate/respiration numbers for you but will try to look that up. Here is a question, and I know it sounds odd: does your squirrel have a more pushed-in type face than the other squirrels outside? (More like a pug-nose face vs. pointed?) Do his limbs look a little shorter or stubbier than the others? I can't tell by that one recent picture, but I am just curious about something.

island rehabber

11-18-2006, 07:29 AM

Yes, Stacey, that's exactly what I am thinking, and the little reading I did last night about it mde me even more curious. ACDs/etc hasn't done anything really wrong by this squirrel, in fact they've been very very attentive to his diet, etc -- why he wouldn't be developing properly can only be something beyond the typical dietary issues. He very well may be a Downs Syndrome squirrel, and not releasable. Maybe we can both put our heads together and help ACDs/etc either take care of him or find someone who will.

Gabe

11-18-2006, 07:57 AM

I have a down syndrome squirrel, short stubby legs, chunky weight, low activity level, very lovey, teeth shorter and body shorter than they should be.
Notice in picture that he is full grown yet fits in your hand. Tail is very short and odd shaped. Sorry about picture size, no choices to make it smaller, hope it is attached

ACDsandAussies4me

11-18-2006, 08:34 AM

Is there somewhere on the web I can read about the downs syndrome?? He looks like a squirrel to me..lol...I haven't really had that many up close and personal experienes with squirrels..I live way out in the country and they keep their distances...Believe me I have really tried to feed him right...I have done a lot of searching on the net to find out what I needed to feed him...I have found I can not force him to eat so have to offer him what he will...I will keep trying with the veggies and cut out alot of the fruits and nuts...
Something else about him, his fur is thin and his tail isn't that bushy, didn't I read somewhere that is possible vit d???
Heck if he is a down syndrome baby he will fit right in here with some of the rest of the crew..We have a blind dog, a horse blind in one eye, the horse is old and the dog has been blind since the age of two (pet store puppy) and we have a white great dane that is deaf...One more handicapped animal isn't going to hurt anything around here..lol
Sorry about the pictures but that is all I have right now...My friend took my camera on her trip to New York so I won't have it back till end of next week..
Thanks so much for all your help,
Dianne
PS. My father calls him Rocky, I call him my little Squirrelly.

ACDsandAussies4me

11-18-2006, 09:34 AM

I found some more pics...I am not sure when these were taken, maybe three weeks ago..

island rehabber

11-18-2006, 09:55 AM

I found some more pics...I am not sure when these were taken, maybe three weeks ago..

I must run out again, elderly mother issues here, but what do you think, Gabe and Stacey?? I am by no means an expert on this but ACDs little one sure looks Downs to me. What a sweetie....just wanna love him up. :)

rippie-n-lilgirlsmom

11-18-2006, 10:20 AM

aww of course he looks like a squirrel Mom, he just needs extra care.
I sure wish I would of had a squirrel that wanted to be loved.
I know you will do great, and you have the heart to help those that arent perfect in every way. I think it was meant for you to find him.:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

ACDsandAussies4me

11-18-2006, 10:49 AM

Awwwwwwwww thanks that was sweet to say..I have a huge heart for animals and they seem to know it and migrate my way !!! lol He is a loving little thing, its so funny, sometimes when you pick him up he just "assumes the possition" little arm thrown back with that little look in his eye that says "scratch me here and I will love ya for the rest of my life !!!" lol
If he is a downs baby what can I expect?? What might his special needs be besides the general stuff??? I only found one article on the net and it said they don't live long, other than that not much information...
I have been looking at the posts of grey squirrel pics, he does seem to have a wider and less pointy head than most of the squirrels in the pictures..
Thanks again,
Dianne

Gabe

11-18-2006, 11:38 AM

Yep, he's just a fat little handful, with a pudgie face. Barbara Bells-Picon spoke at the seminar on squirrels, I talked to her afterward regarding my downs baby. She has one also. He's is 7 months old, mine is 4 months old.
This is his history;
Brought to the vet's office after he was found at the base of a tree, vet treated him with Capstar for fleas and sent him to me. Baby was lethargic, had to wake him to feed him, I thought it was the affects of the Capstar. Would feed well, then wanted to sleep. Never fed self, until well past the time he should have. At first, I thought he could not hear or see as he did not respond to any stimuli at all. Tried him with another younger squirrel and he did not like to play. My 7 year old "granddaughter" was holding him one evening and she said, "Gabe, there's something wrong with this squirrel, he doesn't know how to hang on". Well, out of the mouth of babes.... He has absolutely no fear, and does not cling like a normal squirrel. If left on the table he will walk off the end. He can see and hear, tips forward slowly when he is eating, still likes his esbilac once a day and is beginning to play with small ball toys. He is loveable, and certainly makes the perfect pet squirrel, does not bite or scratch. No seizures ever, Barbara's has never had a seizure either. Is just beginning to climb, he continues to mature, mentally, one step at a time, will never be released. He is a half-pint. His fur is extremely soft, although not thin. I thought he had kitten fur syndrome, but he does not. My vet has seen him and labeled him down's syndrome, even though I was calling him that already. Have never heard of it before this guy.
Anyway, good luck with him, keep us posted on his progress.

halo

11-18-2006, 11:58 AM

Im thinking the same. My gut feeling when I saw the picture is... Something aint right.

Im also wondering if she needs to check for malclussion. That can run in the down syndrome family and could be a reason it isnt eating solid foods well.

Also, Dianne is there anyway to get a bigger cage for your sweetie? It needs to be able to run around with some tree branches in it to help it learn to balance and such. And are u giving it things to chew on to keep its teeth from overgrowing? U can put cuttle bone , tree limbs, bark, or antler bones from chris' squirrels store

~halo~

ACDsandAussies4me

11-18-2006, 12:05 PM

Thanks for that info Gabe...That article I read also said some of them have a hard time keeping their body temps stable..
I may have caused his siezures by weaning him off one of the feedings instead of letting him to do it..In my experience with a puppy I was bottle feeding, he would have nursed the bottle till well past a year old if you let him so I had to be the one to go "you are 10 weeks old, you don't need your bobble any more little one !!!" lol
I started him back on three feedings a day and will let him decide when he wants to give one up..
I am more worried about him with this episode of the siezures because he isn't bouncing back like he did with the others...He wasn't that interested in his milk this morning and when I put him under the light he just sat there on all fours and just seemed to be starring into space...He is laying down now but still just seems to have a blank look on his little face..I am going to try to feed him his formula again about 3 and see how he does..Till then I am constantly watching him..
Thanks again,
Dianne
PS..How could I have forgotten my crippled dog...lol...I also have a female rottweiler that was dropped off at my house with a crippled front leg...The vet said to just leave it as it is since he feels she has already lived with it for many years...She gets around great but she is by no means graceful...
I do also have healthy, normal animals too!!!..lol

island rehabber

11-18-2006, 12:43 PM

ACDs you're a beautiful person for caring for all these 'challenged' animals, and personally I believe this little squirrel was sent to you because he'd be safe and loved in your care This whole thread reminds me that sometimes when the squirrel-lover or the rehabber has done everything right, or has corrected all the wrongs, and has tried all the suggestions -- that it is not at all their fault that the baby doesn't thrive. We are so quick to blame ourselves sometimes, or to blame the squirrel-finder...but Nature has her own ways. This little squirrel got a chance at life where he would have had none. :peace

ACDsandAussies4me

11-18-2006, 12:44 PM

Halo,
His home is a large parrot cage ( we have 5 parrots also) its about a 2X3X5...I have branch that is about 5 inches in diameter in there for him to climb on, he has maybe attempted that 8 or 9 times that I have seen..I keep it very low to the bottom of the cage, it has an s type curve in it that lets them do a little steep climb then it levels out and is wide enough to sit and eat something at the top...
As for his teeth they are fine if they are supposed to set in their mouths like rabbit teeth ( I used to raise and show rabbits)..two bottom teeth set in right behind the top two teeth, nice and straight teeth..I had a rabbit that one of its top teeth cruved towards the side of its mouth, had to keep them trimmed all the time..
I have cut some smaller limbs from the apple tree for him to chew on and just got a cuttle bone last night...
Right now he just seems more interested in sleeping and his formula, or pooing in my hoody..lol, than anything else...
Again, thanks
Dianne

ACDsandAussies4me

11-18-2006, 12:56 PM

That is very true Island Rehabber....Its makes me so mad to see what some people will do to an animal or how they will treat them just because they are "different"....That rottie I have was so skinny when she showed up at my house that it was a great shock and suprise to me when three weeks later she woke me up around midnight delivering puppies in my closet !!!! This is about the sweetest dog I have ever had the pleasure of calling mine...She is no trouble what so ever and I keep her in the house...When i go somewhere you can bet she is jumping in the back of the pickup...What gets me is that she goes everywhere with me and she is unmistakable, with her front leg messed up like it is, and not one person has once said "hey, I know that dog".
How can people take on the responsiblity of an animal and then for what ever reasons decide they don't want it anymore and then just take it and dump it somewhere and not worry about its welfare????? Those people don't deserve her !!!! I am glad she found me, she is now fixed and happily living inside a home with one of her pups and my other dog...They have free choice food and fresh water all ways..A huge queen size bed to snuggle in when it gets cold ( I get the couch..lol)and regular visits to a vet to keep them healthy..I figure Squirrellys mom didn't want him either for whatever reasons, but I do and I plan on taking care of him as best as I can and thats all I can do...
There I go rambling again..lol...But that is me and how I am and how I feel..
I don't own animals, they own me !!!!
Dianne

Gabe

11-18-2006, 01:36 PM

Here's my theory on squirrelly's mom, and with mine. When they are in the nest, all the siblings are one huge fur ball. Mama comes to nurse and to clean. All the babes nurse well, and go back to sleep. When it came time for mine to leave the nest, he went down the tree and that was that. There was no getting up the tree as he cannot climb, or think all that well. It is unfortunately survival of the fittest and he would have been hawk food, had he not been found.
Which makes me wonder...with all these squirrels we save that should have been hawk food, what are the hawks feeding their babies? :D