Curly is Bleeding

[lilbitsquirrely]

Curly is hurt and bleeding from his nose.The blood is bright and coming from what looks like inside of his nose.He is making a weird sneezing like choking cough.He is having trouble breathing,and he is skint under his nose.He is drinking a little water and he managed to eat a little Pecan and a little bit of a boo ball,not much.he is behaving like someone with hiccups.He will stop for a few min.and then he starts up real bad.I just released them yesterday and all the Stooges have been staying close to their cage,except Shemp who ran off yesterday and then returned today.I came home tonight and had my headlights on the cage so I could check on them.I found Curly under the pillow chair for ferrets that I bought them a while back and he was such a mess I thought I had found a rat in the cage.But it was Curly he is hurt awfully bad and I do not have any access to any medicines,or the rescue remedy.Please Help.I do not know what to do I will get him to the vet in the morning if he will see him.

[lilidukes]

I'm sorry I don't know for sure about this me I would wrap him in fleece and try to keep him nose down and wipe anything you can off his face. Kinda like when they would get formula up the nose.

[lilbitsquirrely]

Thank You,lilidukes ,I do have him wrapped up in fleece the bleeding has almost stopped.I may have him mixed up with Shemp.It was so dark out and I was so upset I am not sure which of the Stooges he is I have to see in the morning,when I look at all of them.I have him in my bed room tonight in a small cage.I am trying to keep him calm.He may have fell head first and broke some teeth.I just don't know.I am so worried.

[lilidukes]

Hope all goes well with him (which ever one he is) I know you won't get much sleep tonight but try to stay calm. Like children he feels your stress. Know my prayers are with you tonight.:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[LittleFootsMama]

Not much I can offer on advice, but I can send :grouphug :grouphug your way and hope/pray that your little one is just fine :grouphug :grouphug

[gs1]

i'm so sorry....:grouphug

so much could have happened....

i hope it's nothing ... and will be cleared by morning....

hopefully the rehabbers will be on soon ...but it is 1.30 am right now....

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[CritterMom]

Yes, it sounds as though he took a fall. Keep him warm and quiet, and if you can, half on half off a heating pad for shock. If you still have some formula, you might try offering him some of that. Is he tame enough for you to get a look at his teeth?

[island rehabber]

Good advice all around so far, lilbit. He will be sneezing for a while if he got a lot of blood in his nose. Keep him dark, warm and quiet and offer some soft foods or even formula if he'll take it....chewing may be out of the question for a day or so.

[lilbitsquirrely]

Thank You to everyone who replied.But when I thought it was Curly it was not it was Shemp It was very dark when I got home and I was so upset I mistook Shemp for Curly. I took Shemp to the vet this morning,the news is the worst thing I could have heard.He was not injured he has a very bad virus that has a 100 % mortality rate in rodents and it is highly contagious.I stand to lose all 9 of my squirrels.I asked her what this was called and she said the easiest way to explain it was DISTEMPER.She thinks Shemp may have had this virus ever since I got him,and that is why he may have had so much trouble nursing, and that the stress of the release brought it on.She said he was not loose long enough to contract it from the other wilds but since all my squirrels have had contact with each other that they are all susceptible.PLEASE PRAY this is all in Gods Hands.I asked her for the strongest antibiotic she could give me and I am trying to fight this thing against all odds,and I am trusting in my LORD JESUS CHRIST to take care of all my babies.She said she hopes we can prove her wrong and that we will get through this.She also gave him an anti inflammatory shot to help him breathe easier.His teeth are perfect and he looks so healthy and is still eating like a pig and drinking lots of water.She said that is a real positive thing for him and that I should know in about a week if he is going to show any improvement.The only sign he shows of being sick is the weird sneezing, ,coughing, hiccup type noise and the blood and mucus from his nose.Please everyone just continue to pray for all of my babies,the more prayers the more powerful they become.God is listening.

[island rehabber]

Sounds like parvo....I was not aware that squirrels could get it! Poor babies....lillbit all you can do is supplement their immune systems with high-quality food and a few drops of Vetri-DMG in their water, too. I am so sorry this happened! :(

[Wonkawillie]

Parvo????? Isnt that an intestinal virus that causes such bad runny poop that the animals die. Not bloody nose????
Fill us in if you know more about Parvo than this. This way we can be prepared should we see this with our squirrels.
Thank You

[island rehabber]

I could be way off on this one, Willie.....hope it's not something as bad as that.

[Pierre]

Sounds like an odd diagnosis to me... What virus do squirrels get that has that high a mortality rate? I don't believe they get parvo, plus the signs would be serious bloody diarrhea and vomiting. Can squirrels get distemper? I didn't think so. I thought it only infected dogs, raccoons, foxes, wolves, skunks, and coyotes.

Perhaps you could call your vets office and ask what virus does he/she think your squirrel has? He/she must be thinking of something specific but just failed to tell you what it is.

[Katherine]

Sally,
This is so heartbreaking, I don't even know the right words. I am praying for all of your babies and you during this terrible ordeal. Prayers will continue:grouphug :grouphug

[prncsbabs1]

Can you get a second opinion?? It doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like an inflamation of sinus/nose. Was she able to check his mouth....he did have problems suckling......could he have a problem with his palate? Did she test him for the virus?? Sorry just throwing things out there, I don't think he would have lasted this long if he had this virus.....JMO.

I am holding out hope....I would try to get a second opinion and maybe go sinus infection route.

:grouphug :grouphug


This is a link for Dogs but the symptoms are similar....just a thought.....hope this helps
http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/respiratory/c_multi_rhinitis_and_sinusitis

[CritterMom]

I third or fourth this. Call the office and get the name of this virus. "Like distemper" is not a diagnosis. Once you have a name you can research it - Google is your friend in that area.

And on that same note, nobody should ever walk out of a doctor or vet's office without a complete understanding of what is being discussed. My line is "Explain it to me like I have a 75 I.Q." and if I still don't get it, I ask again. Make them spell it. This is what you are paying for.

It is so easy to panic and forget to do this, and frankly, a lot of doctors and vets deliberately speak in technically dense phrases in order to keep you somewhat in the dark and compliant. Don't let them do it - don't walk out until you fully understand.

We are very lucky to live in the age of the Internet - there is a vast wealth of info available to you with a few keystrokes, all you need is the raw material to start.

[LyddicleaveBurrow]

Hi,

Sending prayers and lots of best wishes to your beautiful squirrels and to you.:grouphug

Heather.

[pappy1264]

Yes, get another opinion! I have never heard of distemper in a squirrel and that is not a sign of distemper (or parvo). How did you come to that conclusion, what type of testing did she do? I'm not trying to second guess a vet, but I don't think this is correct. Sending loads of prayers.

[rygel1hardt]

I wonder if this is what the vet was refering to?http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php Do you have pet Rats? They and mice are the most common carriers of this. Stacey

[CritterMom]

I am PMing Pierre - she has a lot of info on this.

[stosh2010]

lilbit--
LOTS of Prayers and Positive Thoughts---heading your way.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%
Stosh & RamaMama & Rama Rota

[gs1]

omg ... deep breath and lots of prayers for all of you....

i totally agree with getting another opinion ... from one of the best squirrel vets...

(i don't know where you are but ... lets search for one ...also maybe if your vet will consult with a really good squirrel vet ) ... i know it costs money but ...after a diagnosis like this...

i hope you're holding up fairly well... i know i'd be on the floor in shock for a week after this....

Mrs.skul has had great success with echinacea for squirrels when she's had all her wilds with pox... so if echinacea helps to beat pox it should help to beat anything else... even distemper... a strong immune system is always the best defence....

I've included the link to the store ... and the photo of the bottle from skul...

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133940

(mrs.skul/cristal has told me that .... "You need to mix 1 capsule to 1 gal. of water. " they will drink it ... it has a mild taste... not bitter as normal echinacea is .... )

:grouphug

[Pierre]

From reading Shemp's sympotoms, unless I missed something, AND not knowing how he is now, I wouldn't first think mycoplasma. [Myco is a bacteria btw, not a virus.] Myco is a serious threat for rats and mice, and I have heard that it is showing up more in wild squirrels, but again, from the post, I don't think Shemp's symptoms point to myco. BTW also, there are many strains of myco, and most are very species specific, in that the myco we get, rats can't, and vice versa.

Mycoplasma causes respiratory disease and sometimes genital infections as well. The typical respiratory infection starts with sneezing, wet sneezing, then the clicking, difficulty breathing, lethargy, and often an otitis [ear infection] which can cause a head tilt and balance issues. It often becomes chronic and can lead to scarring of lung tissue, which often leads directly or indirectly to an earlier death than the animal would have had without the disease.

All guesses at this point as we don't know what the vet did test-wise to come to the "something like distemper" diagnosis. Myco is treatable with certain AB's so it doesn't seem like this was what the vet was thinking.

I am not sure what virus causes bleeding from the nose.
Did the vet say whether or not he had a fever?
Has he improved, stayed the same, or gotten worse since this afternoon?

It would be really useful to get the vet to tell you the exact name of the virus/bacteria/disease he/she thinks poor Shemp has.

I hope Shemp is feeling better! He great appetite is a great sign. Sending lots of prayers for him. :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[gs1]

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug lots of prayers... :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Pierre]

Any update on sweet little Shemp? Hoping he is feeling much better.... :)

[Gina]

Praying for Shemp and all of your squirrels, I hope diagnosis is wrong and little Shemp will recover fully with no ill effects to the other squirrels.:Love_Icon

[Fireweed]

I hope the diagnosis is wrong, too. :( Hope little Shemp is feeling and doing better... :grouphug

[Kristal]

Sorry, but that sounds like a useless vet to me. I would call back and ask for the exact name of the infection and what it is that points to it in your squirrel. You paid for treatment and/or information, and you deserve at least the latter! :shakehead Please update with useful info from the vet if you can get it. I hope it was not just a lazy diagnosis... and that s/he can at least give you something to work with... for your money.... :shakehead

[nnmaru1]

i'm not a squirrel expert, but arcenic and neurotoxin poisoning will cause nose bleeds in any mammal...
is there a posibility he may have ingested/inhaled something toxic?

if so, lots of liquids and liquid vitamin K may help?
bleeding *itself* can cause sneezing/coughing/airway onstruction...
esp. if there is always a muscle twitch/tremor.
could he have been poisoned?

not to be a debby downer, but who ELSE has access to your squirrels?
and how much does your family/neighboor likes them?
just to rule that out as a posibility. these are odd symptoms for a confined squirrel.

[lilidukes]

Lilbitsquirrely would like to thank all of you who offered up encouragement and prayers for her and Shemp.:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou

Shemp is alive and doing well. Testing is being done to confirm whether or not this is distemper. He is on AB's, HEAL-X Booster(all of her squirrels are on Booster) and benadryl. Only occasional sneezing now, he is full of energy and eating everything given to him. No bleeding from the nose.

Sally, her vet and others are working hard to ensure the health of all of her squirrels. Please continue to include them in your prayers.

[island rehabber]

:thumbsup that's so good to hear! Please tell her prayers and good energies will continue and thanks for the update. :)

[Chipmunk_lover]

Lilbitsquirrely :grouphug , i'm so saddened to hear that Shemp is so ill but i'll be praying he makes it

[gs1]

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Gina]

Checking in on your babies:grouphug

[gs1]

:grouphug

[lilbitsquirrely]

The first few days were a nightmare.Shemp is doing so good,he is even put on a little weight.I have had a few people call me,and have been,trying to help me stay strong and they have been great,Lisa(Lilidukes),Katherine in New York and Kelly Bradley.All the prayers have paid off.I do not think the others are going to get this thing.I have had two opinions on Shemp,and yes they can get and carry distemper. My vet said it was distemper.She had several squirrels come in with the exact same symptoms and they all died.I had her give me the strongest AB she could even though she thought it would not help,and I gave him Benadryl and Lisa told me about Healx Booster ( I put all of them on this,It is not cheap but it is amazing stuff) that would help his immune system. Well Shemp seemed to be getting better so I spoke to my vet,again and I asked her if she could be wrong. She said she hoped and prayed she was and that it could turn out to be a microbial virus,and that was what she would rather deal with.In which case it would possibly go into remission,and that he would have additional outbreaks under certain conditions like stress. The other vet thought more along the lines of the upper respiratory infection, (that is the microbial virus.)In either case the quarantine period is two weeks,for everyone and Shemp will not be able to go free because he would infect other squirrels and without proper treatment they would die.They did not have the equipment nor the capabilities to do the test,in the office.I called an independent testing lab that tests for distemper in dogs and cats. (Zoologix) I explained the situation to them,and they told me they would do the test for the distemper,but they said it should have been done before I gave the AB's and the Benadryl.Well I stopped the Benadryl and he never got any more mucus.So at this point I believe in Gods miracles and I may never find out for sure.I am at a stand still,which is fine by me.I love all these babies that God chose to place in my care.I do not believe in chance.I truly believe that God is in control and everything happens for his purpose and not ours.I am so thankful he sent Shemp back to me and I was able to contain the rest of them so this thing is not being spread.As hard as this has been,I was a little hurt by a couple of people on the board who turned my post and request for prayers into a debate and a attack on my vet and my actions.I was not just worried that Shemp would die but that all nine of them were going to die.To the couple of people on this board who thought it was their place to condemn me and my vets actions,here is a word to the wise.We the care givers of these precious babies,and we have feelings too and no one person is perfect and we are all still learning about squirrels,especially since most vets are not as familiar with them as the common cat or dog.I never expected her to be perfect or right and I was in shock when she first told me what I was dealing with,so I did talk to her again and she did tell me she truly believed it was distemper.I did not, nor will I ever expect her to be 100% perfect on any of her diagnosis's,as far as her being a useless vet, you do not know her,and I have been with her for years and she has cared for and been with me through the worst and best of times with all my pets and wilds,and I know how to talk to her.She is a very caring person,not just for the animals but the people who love them and take care of them.Do yourself a big favor think before you Judge.You have no earthly idea what we have been going through. For all of those who offered up prayers and hugs,and all well wishes.I am extremely thankful,for what I asked for and needed the most was prayers.This board is a great place for help and support.Please for the sake of all our animals and the people who love and care for them,lets us all be kind and considerate to each other,and again no one person knows it all, not even our vets.We are all just tools in Gods mighty work shop.

[pappy1264]

I am glad to hear Shemp is doing better. I hope I did not offend by saying to get a second opinion, but truly, I have never heard of that in squirrels. (I am far from an expert, trust me.) I think everyone here, whether they expressed it correctly, wanted the best for Shemp. Prayers continue for both of you.

[spykitten01]

Im just reading this for the first time - first of all, Id like to say you have my continued prayers and support and I hope this is the last you see of this. I am so glad your squid is doing so much better and I can hope he only goes up from there!

That being said, I agree it was a bit extreme to say the vet was "useless" but a 2nd opinion is ALWAYS a good idea - and I think that and similar comments were more from the mindset of caring about you and the furries and only wanted the best as opposed to trying to make anyone feel bad. People have whatever knowledge they have, and be it good or bad (or even worded as such), they will try to share that in a situation like this. I just hope it doesnt sour any relationships because I dont think anyone meant to do that.

We know you love your babies and are trying to do whats best for them - sometimes some people just get a little loud about their opinions in a time like this.

:grouphug

[stosh2010]

When SHEMP is feeling better , we'd love to see a Smiling Squirrel Photo...
Buena Suerte ! Shemp...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stosh & RamaMama & Rama Rota

[Fireweed]

Oh, I'm so happy to hear Shemp is doing so much better! :multi Give him some noozles from me! :tilt It's also great to hear you don't think the others will get whatever he has. Phew. You have been carrying a HUGE weight, that's for sure!

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[lilidukes]

:grouphug :thumbsup :grouphug

[Kristal]

Im just reading this for the first time - first of all, Id like to say you have my continued prayers and support and I hope this is the last you see of this. I am so glad your squid is doing so much better and I can hope he only goes up from there!

That being said, I agree it was a bit extreme to say the vet was "useless" but a 2nd opinion is ALWAYS a good idea - and I think that and similar comments were more from the mindset of caring about you and the furries and only wanted the best as opposed to trying to make anyone feel bad. People have whatever knowledge they have, and be it good or bad (or even worded as such), they will try to share that in a situation like this. I just hope it doesnt sour any relationships because I dont think anyone meant to do that.

We know you love your babies and are trying to do whats best for them - sometimes some people just get a little loud about their opinions in a time like this.

:grouphug

Yes, what she said. I felt very frustrated for you to be in such a position of walking away from your vet with such a nebulous diagnosis and not knowing whether your other kits were at risk or not... that would be terrible. In your position I would be so upset if someone told me it was something like distemper and all my squirrels may die because it is too late. I would want some more information. So that was really coming from a position of empathy. It must have been so difficult and frustrating to try and get some answers. :(

I am very glad that Shemp is doing better :) I said a prayer for him, too. What an ordeal!

[Kelly Brady]

Can their be any better news? I am so grateful Shemp is improving. Your motherly instincts kicked in and a whole lot of prayer as well.

I am so very happy for you and your gang. Big thanks to the big guy upstairs as well:D

[lilbitsquirrely]

:thumbsup Thank You all.I will start the soft release technique after,I return from Leesburg,Florida on November 8th. The three Stooges,Larry,Curly,and Moe will be the only ones that I will be setting free.Shemp,will not be freed until ,(if ever) I find out he is not a carrier of a microbial Virus.I am looking into how to find out.I will be talking to both of the vets at the end of the quarantine period.Shemp is still not 100 %,but I do believe he is going to be alright.:thankyou :bowdown Praise be to God our Heavenly Father.

[JLM27]

Amen.

[Gina]

So glad to hear that Shemp is doing so well. Thank you for sharing your feelings as it is important for members to be aware that some comments may come out hurtful - even if the intent was to help. . :grouphug