scared for Rifa

[Kristal]

Babe was out while I was feeding Rifa tonight. He kept trying to fight her for the formula and so I lifted her up.. He was climbing up on me to get to the syringe. Rifa was pushing him off. General squirrel mayhem, you know. And she was sucking that formula down like crazy. She was sneezing and coughing some after, but not like constantly, and now I am scared... because all she wants to do is cuddle, and we have not had a cuddle session so long for two weeks. She is crazy active, for the most part. Certainly when she gets out of cage time she is. And I hear the slightest clicking, too. It's not constant, and I have heard slight clicking before when they have been feeling mellow and cuddly... Maybe more like a snoring noise? Like their palate is relaxed and clicking against something in their mouth as they breathe?

But what if that is not it? I am seriously worried for my baby. I would cry and cry if she died in my care :( She is a small 8 and some week old girl, if that helps. What do you think? Should I be doing ABs here?

Edit: and now she is asking to go back into the cage... this is not right.

[Kristal]

Listening to her chest, I think the clicking is coming from her palate or sinuses. Given that she did not drown... I think that time is going to tell. Reading this

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Animal-Health---General/Aspiration-pneumonia/show/737506

it seems like it will take some hours to develop, if at all. Likely she is just being cuddly, and I am freaking out over nothing. I'm going to check on her first thing in the morning. She weighs 230 g and I have amoxicyllin 500 mg for people left over from a toothache that needed stronger ABs. I have these instructions that I was given for Alex:


Take the 500 mg capsule and empty it into a tiny container with a lid , a baby food jar will work but smaller is better. Add 10 ml of water to the powder and shake it up. Keep this refrigerated and shake well before each dose. Give .08 ml twice a day for 10 days. .08 ml is just below the first hash mark on the 1 cc syringe. Give this in the morning and evening and give a tiny bit of Dannon all natural yogurt sometime in between antibiotics (or Benebac or Fortiflora if you have it). Don't use yogurt with artificial sweeteners. The yogurt is very important as it will help prevent diarrhea which is often a side effect of antibiotics.

I will check this board before sleeping because I am not going to assault her system with ABs unless it is warranted.

She could be seriously lethargic or just seriously snuggly... and sleepy. It's just that snuggly has not been very common for a while what with the climbing of the walls and all that she has to fit into her out of cage time now. Her breathing could be slightly laboured, or I could just be an overly worried squirrel mom... on the other hand.

I'll be checking in for your feedback, anyway.

[PDXErik]

I wish I had something positive or some good advice, I'm afraid all I can do is bump.

bump

[Skul]

Being this early, I would have some doubts.
Please consider changing how you feed.
Having both at the same time may trigger a hurry-up mode.
Keep the kids seperate when you do feed.
They do get very eager, and you need to be aware of it.

[Kristal]

I usually do... I put the boys in a basket, feed Rifa first and take them out one by one after. Babe just wouldn't go this time. In fact all the boys are starting to hate the basket where they used to love it. It was their first home, and it meant they were getting fed, you know. But they are just getting a bit more rambunctious these days... The basket was easy when they all flopped down on me afterwards and went to sleep, but I just decided that I will leave them in the cage until feeding and take them out one by one, yea. I don't need any more episodes like this.

How long does it take for pneumonia to develop after aspiration, usually?

Her nose is dry, but I think the clicking might be getting worse. No more sneezing, though.

[Skul]

The little monsters are growing p.
It's possible the stinker aspirated a bit.
Whether it developes into an infection, I wouldn't know.
Keep a reasonable close watch for the next day, and see if the condition
worsens.
Please be very objective, and not over react.
Take a couple seconds, consider it, then.....
If you even think the squirrel has gotten worse, scream like the dickens.
Someone here will help immediately.

[Kristal]

Well... the way she tucked into her late night snack of honeydew melon, dandelion and boo balls, then went to work on the fresh gnawing branch in earnest is making me feel a bit silly now.

Dumb, ole mom, you should have just enjoyed your cuddle time when you had it :P

Of course I am going to keep a close watch on her, too ;)

[Kristal]

Please be very objective, and not over react.


Hah :D I am generally not too bad at that. I just love this little girl so much... This must be what it is like to have a kid, y'know?

[PDXErik]

Hah :D I am generally not too bad at that. I just love this little girl so much... This must be what it is like to have a kid, y'know?

Wait till you're wondering if they're coming home/gotten their own place/hit by a car/eaten by a dog/ate a poisonous berry/half wounded and died on their way home

There's more to come.

[Kristal]

Just... when I think I might get to a more normal sleeping rhythm, right? Of course I am up and checking her. Comparing her to Nibbler, I can hear that there is some congestion in her lungs, probably the formula, at this point. No clicking in the chest, no sneezing or mucous in her nose, but she is, indeed, lethargic. I am thinking that she is getting a bit less oxygen, and this is making her groggy. She is warm to the touch and eating, just sleepy eyed and rather slack where she is usually very responsive and running circles around my waist of late. She is always easy to handle, but that is because she jumps on my hand when offered and climbs off of my shoulder when I drop it for her to descend. She is not so crazy about being picked up anymore, but she tolerates it. Tonight she is a floppy, sleepy eyed, warm squirrel, and not complaining in the least about me picking her up and moving her around to look at this and listen to that. She did not even open her eyes just now when I opened up their house to grab her... But she did go for the night time snacks when I put her back. Also chomped up the branch pretty good, I see.

I am still worried. So what happens now? I guess she either clears the liquid in her lungs or they get propagated with bacteria. Is that correct?

[mugzeezma]

Just... when I think I might get to a more normal sleeping rhythm, right? Of course I am up and checking her. Comparing her to Nibbler, I can hear that there is some congestion in her lungs, probably the formula, at this point. No clicking in the chest, no sneezing or mucous in her nose, but she is, indeed, lethargic. I am thinking that she is getting a bit less oxygen, and this is making her groggy. She is warm to the touch and eating, just sleepy eyed and rather slack where she is usually very responsive and running circles around my waist of late. She is always easy to handle, but that is because she jumps on my hand when offered and climbs off of my shoulder when I drop it for her to descend. She is not so crazy about being picked up anymore, but she tolerates it. Tonight she is a floppy, sleepy eyed, warm squirrel, and not complaining in the least about me picking her up and moving her around to look at this and listen to that. She did not even open her eyes just now when I opened up their house to grab her... But she did go for the night time snacks when I put her back. Also chomped up the branch pretty good, I see.

I am still worried. So what happens now? I guess she either clears the liquid in her lungs or they get propagated with bacteria. Is that correct?
I wish I had a dollar for every time a baby squirrel blew milk out it's nose at me...I wouldn't be wealthy but it may pay for the formula! Seriously, sometimes this happens when babies suckle too fast. it does not always lead to aspiration but it could. Blowing milk out the nose can make them act funky for awhile but not more than 24 hours so keep a watchful eye.
If she is still off her feed and lethargic later this afternoon I'll help you dose. .08cc's may be a bit on the high side dunno yet...need coffee first and feed my kids

[Kristal]

Hokai, she is looking very much better today :D Back to her ordinary, cute, silly self. They are all roughhousing on the couch right now. Rifa just grabbed the feeding syringe out of the water cup and ran away with it to stash it somewhere for her later, personal enjoyment. Too cute :)

I don't think we have worked out the new feeding routine, yet. Everyone ate about half of what they usually do, but I guess they will get used to waiting in the cage for feeding.

And yes, I have had a bit of milk coming out the nose, before, but I think this was the first time it got in the lungs. Can they naturally clear it or is it certain that she will still get sick?

[mugzeezma]

Hokai, she is looking very much better today :D Back to her ordinary, cute, silly self. They are all roughhousing on the couch right now. Rifa just grabbed the feeding syringe out of the water cup and ran away with it to stash it somewhere for her later, personal enjoyment. Too cute :)

I don't think we have worked out the new feeding routine, yet. Everyone ate about half of what they usually do, but I guess they will get used to waiting in the cage for feeding.

And yes, I have had a bit of milk coming out the nose, before, but I think this was the first time it got in the lungs. Can they naturally clear it or is it certain that she will still get sick?
Most likely she won't get sick if she is healthy in general.
Have you ever had something go down the wrong pipe, snort milk or whatever out your nose as a kid? Pretty much the same thing. Syringe feeding a squirrel is fairly unnatural because they really have to pull to get anything when suckling on their mother. Anyone that's breast fed their children would know.
Some squirrels are better at feeding than others. Now I am feed my 2 youngsters and at the center somewhere in the 100s. Everyone of these babies has their own style. Ani has never had a problem and Finnagin literally inhales the stuff to the point where he is gasping!!! I feed with 1cc and 3cc syringes. Doesn't make a difference. He is almost 400g @ 10 weeks and STILL inhales!!! I just watch him closely and try to be careful. so far he has not had pneumonia for all his dramatic displays. The important thing is to know when they are taking a turn for the worse and being ready...and you are/were.

I'm glad it's turned out to be nothing and that's the case more often than not.

True aspiration tends to happen most frequently when the baby is either very very young or very very weak. That's when you need to worry the most about pneumonia. A healthy squirrel's immunity is a lot stronger and more likely to fight off any bacterial infections that occur.
I would still keep one eye open though. :thumbsup

[alex39]

Hey I hope everything is okay. The meds seems to have really worked for Daisy. I hope they do the same for Rifa !

[island rehabber]

Kristal, basically you want to watch for the signs of:

* lethargy
* diminished appetite

These are the clear signs of pneumonia and ABX must be started immediately. If you can get sulfatrim or Baytril they are far more effective on pneumonia than any 'cillin drug can be.

With clicking, the click must be heard on the inhale and the exhale of breath. When you make the squirrel move, the clicks will be faster and faster. THAT is pneumonia. Squirrels make little "pffts" and clicks all the time, but that's not pneumonia.

[Kristal]

Yea, she is not clicking at all today. There was some congestion, so it must have been a combo of ordinary sleepiness and getting less oxygen. She was back to climbing my wall hangings this morning. No problems ;) I am glad I did not jump the gun with the ABs.