3 Baby Squirrels -possible head trauma- One with blood in nose and mouth

[Lanatwo]

Hi all! My boss just called - she's in New Smyrna Beach and just found three little eyes-open kids, two seem perfectly fine but one has blood coming from his nose and mouth. My guess is when they all fell, they fell on top of him. They are all dehydrated so mom's probably not coming back. I am heading out to pick them up from her now. I have instructed her that only pedialyte with a 1cc syringe is acceptable until I get them.

What should I do about the head trauma? Is there anything I can do? What should I look for if something is going to go really wrong?

I will put up some pics when I get them here.

Thank you all!

[squillgurl]

Aw,I don't have anything to offer but well wishes and good luck! :grouphug

[prncsbabs1]

Do a quick check A B C. Then Warm, dark & quiet

Airway - is clear, clean blood from nasal area.

Bleeding - See where it is coming from. If it is just a bloody nose clean. Major bleeding apply pressure to area.

Cardio. Check mouth what color are gums?? Pale, is shock.

Then keep them warm and hydrated.
Hope this helps
Good Luck:tilt

[island rehabber]

:goodpost
The one bleeding from nose and mouth may not necessarily be a serious head trauma case. Often these babies are 100% normal once the blood gets cleared up and they stop sneezing it out of their little sinuses. Watch for neuro signs, of course: circling, weaving, 'star-gazing', and head tilt. Unfortunately baby squirrels are like badminton birdies: their heads are way heavier than their bodies so they fall head first :(.

[Lanatwo]

Wanted to update: all seem okay but they are so skinny! Mom must have been gone for a while. My boss said her son found the bloody one on the sidewalk, splayed out, and not moving. The others were nearby but were not hurt.

They have no teeth, gums seem normal colored, and boy, they are feisty! Oh, and they are also ALL GIRLS! 3 baby girls. :) Two of them are just growling and grunting at me! It's so cute.

They have the usual set up, a cat carrier half on the heating pad, rice buddy inside, fleece and old t-shirts, etc.

I am about to rehydrate them with pedialyte and a little grenadine, they seem really hungry but they refused the pedialyte earlier. I am going to go to the store and get stuff for Jackie's goat milk recipe - the Fox Valley is ordered and has overnight shipping, but since it is Sunday they wont get it until Tuesday, so goat milk for now.

The injured one looks really good, just still bleeding a little and sneezing blood. :( I feel so bad for her. My boss has named her Hope. I have a good feeling about her though, she is so strong and seems like she's going to make it.

[Lanatwo]

They have all had some pedialyte but they don't seem to want much of it. The injured one, Hope, took about 3/4 of a cc. Kerrigan, the strongest one, took a cc and a half. Bitey, who seems kind of like the runt, didn't want to eat at all but took half a cc when I forced her, drop at a time.

I don't understand why the two aren't thirsty. They are really dehydrated! I did the pinch test and it takes a long time for the skin to spring back. I am giving them regular pedialyte with a few drops of grenadine, which someone suggested.

I'll be trying to feed them again in about an hour.

[CritterMom]

Are you warming it up? If not, do, if so, try making it a bit warmer. When they are dehydrated like that the stop wanting anything, and WON'T want anything until you rehydrate them (nice vicious circle, huh?) If you have to, a drop at a time until the skin snaps and you are seeing lots of clear pee. It may be a long night...

[Lanatwo]

I had it warmed up, but I will try a little warmer. They are going to drink this stuff if I have to drop by drop all three of them and make them drink. I will not let them die.

So far, no pee or poo at all.

Any other advice, suggestions are more than appreciated!

[alex39]

I'm not an expert at all but I think you need to stimulate them so they can pee and poop. You need to use a q-tip or some towel with warm water and stimulate on her genitals and belly.

[momma2boo]

I had it warmed up, but I will try a little warmer. They are going to drink this stuff if I have to drop by drop all three of them and make them drink. I will not let them die.

So far, no pee or poo at all.

Any other advice, suggestions are more than appreciated!

Try a little organic extra virgin coconut oil in their FV. I use 0.1 oil per 1 cc formula. Will help the poop thing and will add some extra good fat (along with the same properties as mother's milk) to their FV. Obviously, this is after they start FV.

Good luck ... :thumbsup
I live in Ormond Beach if you need anything at all please let me know. If you PM me I will give you my cell number so you can call ... if you need to.

Julie

[CritterMom]

You have warmed the babies themselves up really good, right? They need to be warm, what they eat needs to be warm... Try just pedialyte - no grenadine - the salt/sugar/electrolyte mix is pretty specific; they shouldn't need more sugar which is all the grenadine brings.

[Lanatwo]

Yep, they are warm and the solution is warm. They are in a cat carrier with half of it on a heating pad, and they have a rice buddy in there too (I bring it with them when they eat, since they like to cling to it and it keeps them warm!)

I only added the grenadine in the first place to make them want to drink. :( It didn't really work so I will just go back to the plain pedialyte.

I have stimulated all of them after every re-hydration attempt but nothing so far.

[winky2]

If these guys don't start drinking soon you should think about getting them to a rehabber so they can get some subQ fluids. Last month I got some severely dehydrated babies in that refused to take pedialyte until after I got them a bit more hydrated with subQ fluids. Sometimes in severe cases their GI system starts to shut down and they just refuse to drink. You have to be really careful not to start any formula until you get them hydrated, otherwise the formula will just sit there in the GI tract and spoil (this can kill them). I waited 48 hours on those really bad ones (just had to watch closely for low blood sugar). Good luck!

[Lanatwo]

If they don't start drinking by themselves, tommorow afternoon they are going to the vet for fluids. I luckily have a wonderful vet, Dr. Vaughn of Lake Mary Vet Hospital, who treats wilds for me for free. He is great and has a kind heart.

If they need it I will absolutely turn them over to a rehabber. The Haven is totally full right now though! I just want what is best for these guys. Hopefully they will get fluids in them, stabilize, and then I can continue raising them. I love them so much already. Especially little Hope, who is such a trooper. I know her nose must be really killing her.

I don't plan on keeping them forever, I want to soft-release to my backyard. I am about to move to a beautiful old house on an acre with tons of trees so I can see them all grown up running around. :)

[Jackie in Tampa]

If I can help,let me know..
also, not to be a party pooper, but adding coconut and grenedine is just not needed...I know when I drink sweet colorful happy drinks my tummy is upside down for days..why add issues to a baby sq.
I have been doing sqs for years without these silly additives. You really just do not need the extra stuff in their bellies. The red dye will leave them with slimmey poop colors and coconut has been noted to give diarreha. It's just junk:shakehead and can LEAD TO DIARREHA!

Pedialyte and formula are made for baby sqs, really.
Sugar has a purpose, and it is to raise the glycemic levels especially in a shocky sq.
I don't think red syrup is really making them delighted to drink...

Home remedies are great, but this is just pushing junk to newbies and new babies...
Molasses containes calcium, and sugar, so in the right situation, molasses should be plenty.:peace
Winky is right, feeding formula too early and the formula will grow yeast...bloat issues to follow. Not good...
as we have always said, warm and hydrated first. Good Luck Lanatwo.

[winky2]

If they don't start drinking by themselves, tommorow afternoon they are going to the vet for fluids. I luckily have a wonderful vet, Dr. Vaughn of Lake Mary Vet Hospital, who treats wilds for me for free. He is great and has a kind heart.

If they need it I will absolutely turn them over to a rehabber. The Haven is totally full right now though! I just want what is best for these guys. Hopefully they will get fluids in them, stabilize, and then I can continue raising them. I love them so much already. Especially little Hope, who is such a trooper. I know her nose must be really killing her.

I don't plan on keeping them forever, I want to soft-release to my backyard. I am about to move to a beautiful old house on an acre with tons of trees so I can see them all grown up running around. :)

Sounds like they're in excellent hands. Please let us know how it goes today. Do you have pics?

[psychobird]

sounds like your doing a great job with them.
almost always the first 24 hrs is a wrestling match to get them to drink the pedialyte, they usually don't really like it much, i wish they made milk flavored
consider how much they should have for how much they weigh and how far apart the feedings should be, try to meet at least that goal
if they really fight me i will sometimes give a 1/2ml every half hour.
i don't give them much choice, i use the syringe with no nipple and almost irritate them to drink by moving the syringe around their mouths, like back where the back teeth meet or rub it lightly on the roof of their mouths, or coming in sideways, whatever makes them lick and sort of chew on syringe.
yes they complain and fight it a bit but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
one thing i would like to add is, you may want to consider giving the possible head trauma baby metacam for a few days ONLY after he's fully hydrated, it may help with any brain swelling and prevent neuro problems

[Lanatwo]

Great news! Everyone made it through the night just fine.

They went to the vet this morning at 9:30am, and he gave them B12 shots, an appetite stimulant, subQ fluids, and he discovered that two had upper respiratory infections that were just starting. He gave them all a shot of antibiotics to nip it in the bud, and gave me clavimox and told me to start that tomorrow.

Hope broke what little teeth she had in the fall - the others have top teeth barely poking through and a decent amount of lower teeth as well.

They are now mostly accepting the pedialyte without too much fuss. Hope seems the most disinterested but I did get her to drink half a cc while she held it and licked!

Right now, the plan is warm, dark, quiet, and rehydrate every hour and a half. I'm going so slow that by the time I am done with the last one, I have to feed the first one again in like 10 minutes. I go really slow when feeding so I do not know how they got the URI's - the doc suggested stress and that Hope inhaled some blood.

Oh and I went back to regular, warmed up pedialyte without any additives. How long should I keep them on the pedialyte? I know they are hungry and they hate the stuff. I have Jackies Goat Milk Recipe all ready to go in the fridge, just waiting for the right time to feed. The Fox Valley should be here either this evening or tomorrow morning.

Please reassure me that I am doing this right. Any advice is helpful!

[island rehabber]

If they've been on Pedialyte for 24 hrs, it's time to start diluted formula with them. Pedialyte is high in sodium and should not be given for longer than that -- plus, they need calories now. :thumbsup

[Lanatwo]

If they've been on Pedialyte for 24 hrs, it's time to start diluted formula with them. Pedialyte is high in sodium and should not be given for longer than that -- plus, they need calories now. :thumbsup

Diluted formula - how diluted? half formula half pedialyte? What do you suggest?

[psychobird]

never mix pedialyte with formula.
if you feed they are still dehydrated start with 5 parts water and 1 part formula for a couple of feedings (you can feed them more often when diluted but not more than every 2 hrs) then go up to 4.1. for a couple and so on and so on till they are up to full strength.
once they are up to full strength feed at proper intervals for their age

[Lanatwo]

Great news! I offered the diluted formula and it was a huge hit. :) They gobbled up 4 ml each. They wanted more but I didn't want to overfeed them. I'll feed them again in 2 hours. :)

Hope is still sort of snuffling and sneezing, but not nearly as bad as before. How long before antibiotics take effect? This seems too soon.

I'm going to grab some food with my boyfriend and I'm picking up a scale on the way back so I can work out precisely how much food they need.

Oh, and pictures here: I'll get some better ones when my real camera charges!

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=71031&id=1623155801&l=86f480fcee

[psychobird]

awesome!! i usually see improvement from antibiotics in 2-3 days.
your making them feel better with warmth, fluid, security and love
good job!

[Lanatwo]

Good news everyone! They are doing way better than yesterday. Everyone is eating like a champ, and Kerrigan and Bitey are up running around and exploring in that wobbly baby way. They are curling their tails over their backs now too. Hope still feels sick but she is eating great. She sleeps most of the time and is lethargic but she's taking her antibiotics along with the rest of them. They are so precious! What are the odds of having 3 baby girls? :) Maybe one day I can rehab a boy! I hear they are more relaxed.

The girls seem to be getting used to me, not nearly as much growling. I kind of miss it!

Anyway, just for people's reference, all three are getting 0.2 ml of clavimox every 12 hours.

My Fox Valley JUST came in as I was typing this!

My Question:

How should I make the transition to FV? The girls are on diluted formula still, they are at 2/3 Jackie's goat milk formula, 1/3 water. I was concerned about the dehydration so I was taking it slow.

Should I add yogurt to the FV since they are on antibiotics? My instincts tell me that yes I should but I want to check. How much should I be adding if so?

I am going to be feeding them again in 2 1/2 hours, they just got done when the postman came by!

[spykitten01]

Yes! Add the yogurt for sure - ABs can really mess with their little poopies


:thumbsup

[psychobird]

since everything is so diluted i would go half n half fv for a couple then 3/4 fv to 1/4 for a couple keeping in mind to use a little less water to get them up to full strength hopefully tmrw.
there are 2 thoughts of adding probiotics some people think it's a waste when giving antibiotics and others think it's good.
instead of adding it to the formula which will turn some of the formula into more yogurt, just suck some up in a syringe and give them a tiny bit like every other feeding but not the feeding at the same time that your dosing with clavamox.
did you ask the vet about metacam for hope? it may help her if she is in any pain and will help with inflamation from her injury

[Lanatwo]

since everything is so diluted i would go half n half fv for a couple then 3/4 fv to 1/4 for a couple keeping in mind to use a little less water to get them up to full strength hopefully tmrw.
there are 2 thoughts of adding probiotics some people think it's a waste when giving antibiotics and others think it's good.
instead of adding it to the formula which will turn some of the formula into more yogurt, just suck some up in a syringe and give them a tiny bit like every other feeding but not the feeding at the same time that your dosing with clavamox.
did you ask the vet about metacam for hope? it may help her if she is in any pain and will help with inflamation from her injury

Just to be clear - should I be using half water/ half reconstituted FV, or half FV/ half Jackie's diluted formula?

I will give the yogurt in between feedings and not when I give the clavimox. You're right that feeding the antibiotics with probiotics seems like the AB's would just kill them right away and not do any good.

I will call the vet today and ask for metacam - I had already left for the vet when you posted that info (or I didn't see it?). Her nose is still a little swollen but seems much better. Good thing their teeth grow back! They are kind of uneven actually so I will be watching for malocclusions.

[spykitten01]

Start with four parts water, one part FV for a few feedings. If poops are looking good and theyre taking it well, go to three parts water and one part FV for several feedings. Same thing - if poops look good, theyre peeing and doing well with it, then go to full strength formula (2:1 - two parts water to one part FV) after that. It wouldnt be a bad idea to mix in a little of Jackies formula for the first few FV feedings to allow their tummies a chance to adjust. Once theyre on the FV only, you can still add the heavy whipping cream and yogurt if you like, just like Jackies formula. I did and it helped with the transition and also helped to chunk them up/keep the tummies in good working order.

[Lanatwo]

Start with four parts water, one part FV for a few feedings. If poops are looking good and theyre taking it well, go to three parts water and one part FV for several feedings. Same thing - if poops look good, theyre peeing and doing well with it, then go to full strength formula (2:1 - two parts water to one part FV) after that. It wouldnt be a bad idea to mix in a little of Jackies formula for the first few FV feedings to allow their tummies a chance to adjust. Once theyre on the FV only, you can still add the heavy whipping cream and yogurt if you like, just like Jackies formula. I did and it helped with the transition and also helped to chunk them up/keep the tummies in good working order.

When you say 1 part FV, do you mean reconstituted, or do you mean the straight up powder?

Also: I GOT SOME METACAM! :D Am I correct in assuming that I should only give this to Hope after she is on full strength formula? It says to only give the stuff with food. I also made sure it can be given with the Clavimox.

By the way, I weighed everyone:

Today, 5pm:

Hope: 3.2 oz
Bitey: 3.1 oz
Kerrigan: 3.0 oz

[psychobird]

you can give her the metacam as long as she's hydrated now.

[Lanatwo]

Just wanted to update that everyone is doing great and this thread should probably be moved over to non-life threatening forum or something. I will make a post about them in the nursery. :)