Possible MBD - Help with diet please

[pinkpipsan]

Hi

I posted on her for the first time earlier this week regarding my 7 year old grey squirrel.

For the last week she has been somewhat lethargic, constipated and has a much smaller appetite than usual.

I was advised several things regarding her diet/cage.

I have fitted a full spectrum, UVA/UVB lamp to her cage which is now on whenever we are in the house.

I have a liquid calcium/D3 supplement which I am adding to her drinking water as I couldn't get her to eat the tums, it didn't matter how they were hidden, she knows and refuses to eat/drink!

I have been advised to start feeding her a rat lab block but as I am in the UK I am struggling to find the appropriate food, pets at home do a rat nugget but this looks very different to the stuff I've been advised to give. Does anyone know of any food in the UK that is suitable?

She seemed to pick up a lot yesterday but appears to have dropped a bit again this morning.

She is eating but only small amounts of vegetables such as carrot, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach and tomato with the occasional nut thrown in. I haven't seen her drink anything in 24 hours but this could be due to the extra moisture in her food. She is still moving and climbing well but very sporadically. Most of her time is spent sleeping.

My concern is that I go on holiday tomorrow for 3 nights returning on Monday. My sister usually looks after them but I am worried she might suddenly get worse.

From experience does she sound in a condition that could suddenly worsen or do you think I am safe to leave her for the 3 nights with my sister?

I will only be a 3 hour drive away so can return if I need to.

Any advice you can give would be great.

Thanks:dono

[Jackie in Tampa]

The vitamins in water are not even worth the effort, also the ratio of D and Calcium in them are usually not appropriate proportion.
I would crush up the tums or calcium tablet{without D} and syringe feed.
I would spread out the feeding throughout the day, attempting to get a minimum of 400-600 mgs in her today.
Will she eat cream cheese? Yogurt? Avacodo almond butter?
You can also crush up tums and mix into avacodo or anything your sq will eat on her own. I would start this now.
I will attach a link to the emergency calcium stickey.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17677

I bet if you get this in her, you will see some improvement.
Also add a heat source please.
good luck

[pinkpipsan]

The vitamins in water are not even worth the effort, also the ratio of D and Calcium in them are usually not appropriate proportion.
I would crush up the tums or calcium tablet{without D} and syringe feed.
I would spread out the feeding throughout the day, attempting to get a minimum of 400-600 mgs in her today.
Will she eat cream cheese? Yogurt? Avacodo almond butter?
You can also crush up tums and mix into avacodo or anything your sq will eat on her own. I would start this now.
I will attach a link to the emergency calcium stickey.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17677

I bet if you get this in her, you will see some improvement.
Also add a heat source please.
good luck

Thanks for this but there is no way I will be able to syringe feed her, she will not sit still long enough for me to even attempt to do this plus she has a very aggressive side to her and will fight and attack if she feels she is being restrained in anyway. She is still a very wild animal in many ways.

I have tried mixing the tums with various different foods and she won't eat any of it, she tries it but as soon as she realises the tums are in it then she will refuse anymore.

I know the water is not a solution but thought this would be better than nothing whilst I try and find another way of getting the calcium in her.

I could do with a flavourless calcium option really so that is easier to disguise rather than strong tasting fruit flavoured tums. I will have a look to see if I can find a different calcium tablet.

[Jackie in Tampa]

has she had seizures yet?
that's next, following lethargy...
she may seize in her nest, please listen carefully for any unusual sounds.
I would take her outside in the shade for 30 minutes a day if possible.
I would manhandle her if I thought she was cal low, it can and will lead to death. I would get that cal in her reguardless of what she wants...

please do some research on TSB site ...low cal is the biggest issue with having a captive sq...and the number one cause of death in a captive sq:shakehead
:Love_Icon jit
PS...do not count on that vitamin water at all....it is not effective!!!!!

[CritterMom]

Get a regular old calcium tablet for humans like you would take, note the size in milligrams. You are going for 500mg per day for a bit, then you will be able to taper down. Grind up whatever portion of the tablet that will be 500mg.

Try mixing it with some almond or peanut butter and smear that on a nut.

If you can buy avocados in the UK, get one - they love them. Cut a thin slice (meat only, no skin, no pit), cut in half. Smear the calcium powder on one side and kind of mash it into the avocado meat a little, cover with the other piece so it is a little avocado sandwich.

Don't put a ton in ONE serving; break it up throughout the day so you aren't putting so much quantity of the powder in each serving.

Do they sell Nutella there? It is a chocolate/hazelnut spread that is delicious (don't taste it yourself or you will gain 20 pounds and hate me forever) and so strongly flavored that she will never know (or care) about some calcium in it.

Get creative. One way or another you need to get this into her.

If the food you are describing is a manufactured diet (like pellets, not a seed/corn mix) for rats, it should have the minerals needed for your squirrel, as their requirements are very similar. You may need to get creative with getting her to eat that, too, but again, we can help.

[lilidukes]

To get calcium carbonate powder in to my girl I get a mini marshmallow damp and roll it in the powder. Ella even licks her hands clean after eating.

[pinkpipsan]

Get a regular old calcium tablet for humans like you would take, note the size in milligrams. You are going for 500mg per day for a bit, then you will be able to taper down. Grind up whatever portion of the tablet that will be 500mg.

Try mixing it with some almond or peanut butter and smear that on a nut.

If you can buy avocados in the UK, get one - they love them. Cut a thin slice (meat only, no skin, no pit), cut in half. Smear the calcium powder on one side and kind of mash it into the avocado meat a little, cover with the other piece so it is a little avocado sandwich.

Don't put a ton in ONE serving; break it up throughout the day so you aren't putting so much quantity of the powder in each serving.

Do they sell Nutella there? It is a chocolate/hazelnut spread that is delicious (don't taste it yourself or you will gain 20 pounds and hate me forever) and so strongly flavored that she will never know (or care) about some calcium in it.

Get creative. One way or another you need to get this into her.

If the food you are describing is a manufactured diet (like pellets, not a seed/corn mix) for rats, it should have the minerals needed for your squirrel, as their requirements are very similar. You may need to get creative with getting her to eat that, too, but again, we can help.

Thanks for this Crittermom! Some very useful advice. I have just been to our local health food shop and bought calcium tablets (600mg) with added D3. I am hoping that the taste isn't as strong as tums so it will disguise a little better.

We do get avocado and nutella so I will stop and get some of this on the way home from work and try her on this straight away.

The rat food pellets I have (because I have 2 rats) contains the following so I hope this will be suitable.

Ingredient(s):
Wheat, Maize, Peas, Soya, Chicken Meal, Poultry Fat, Dicalcium Phosphate, Fructo-Oligosaccharides.

Typical Analysis:
Moisture 9%, Protein 16%, Oils and Fats 4.5%, Fibre 3.5%, Ash 4%.


I am pleased to say she hasn't had any seizures/shakes, just lethargy which comes and goes. She has bursts of energy which last 5-10 minutes and then back to sleep again.

Thanks

[4skwerlz]

DO NOT use calcium tablets that also contain Vit D!

These are made for humans and have too much vitamin D. This will make the MBD worse. You must use plain calcium only.

[pinkpipsan]

DO NOT use calcium tablets that also contain Vit D!

These are made for humans and have too much vitamin D. This will make the MBD worse. You must use plain calcium only.
Ok I am really struggling now then, I can't find any calcium tablets that don't have either vit D, vit D3, magnesium or zinc.

What am I supposed to use if she won't have the tums?

[Jackie in Tampa]

calcium carbonate or calcium citrate ...same thing and perfect...
every drug store and food stotre in USA has them...
very generic, nothing fancy!
I would start asap myself.
I have dealt with this first hand, with sucesss..
please listen to 4skwerls ...
she knows her stuff!:thumbsup
Maybe you will allow her to PM with you.
It could make a difference...
I previously posted a link to emergency stickey...this can get very serious fast!

[CritterMom]

For now, try the Tums IN NUTELLA. The flavor of that stuff is so strong she may not even taste it.