Formula Issues

[ordubismom]

I am struggling with the fox valley formulas. I hear everyone talk to great about it on here, and I have complete trust in everyone here. As soon as I heard about how wonderful it was and all of the issues with esbilac I placed my order for both kinds and have since placed a second order. But I have encountered a lot of issues and can't believe I am the only one out there seeing these things. After I lost my 4 pinkies to fv formula and spending feeding them around the clock until I was drained of all my energy for 4 days they all got instantaneous bloat and I lost every one of them. Then someone on here told me that pinkies struggle with fv and I should have only given them half strength because their little tummies can't seem to break it down properly. :thinking
Now I have 8 babies on both versions of fv and I really have to watch each of them except the older ones over 7 wks old to see if they are still tolerating it daily. My littlest one was a pinky and we have gotten her through this with weak fv and the occasional need for a syringe of pedialyte. :wott I also have 5 babies that are about 4 to 5 wks old. I am not jumping to the 4 wk or older version because I am still having a lot of issues. They don't potty like they should. I have never had such a time keeping them urinating and pooping without problems. I don't really understand it. I think I am doing the best thing for them by using fv, then I have one that takes me 10 minutes to get her to start peeing and it's a real stain on her as well as me. This should be easy on her at this age. And at them same time another one is constipated, and another one is regurgitating everything I just fed her. Then I am thinking I need to weaken the 2:1 ration yet again. The little one that was regurgitating last night came to me lifeless on friday night from falling very hard. She was limp and dehydrated and nobody thought she would make it. Well she did come around and has been strong and great since Saturday night after gradually going from pedialyte to fv through several small feedings. Now suddenly last night she is having difficulty peeing and pooping. I finally got her to go and it was as if the floodgates came open. She soaked a towel and pooped a ton. Then when I placed her back in her bed she regurgitated everything I had just fed her. This morning I gave her pedialyte again, and am thinking about going out to buy the stuff for Island Rehabbers homemade formula for her. I used it the 4 days it took me originally to get the fv in and my baby loved it. She did wonderful on it. I know it doesn't have all the vitamins as the fv, but maybe she will live. I'm tired. I can't be the only one struggling with issues from this I just can't. I know it. Those 4 pinkies were the first unharmed babies that I have ever lost, and it was full strength fv that did it. The other thing I am considering is just switching the fv to 2:2 ratio and keep it there. They pee and poop properly when I switch it there to straighten them out. I might even be able to switch my 5 wk old babies on up to the older formula at that ratio after a gradual transfer. What do you all think? Honestly, am I the only one? What are your answers to these things when they happen to you? Or are your squirrels just thriving with no issues, and my squirrels just have very tender tummys. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. Believe me. I really value your opinions, and have always seen success with my help on here. I just want things to start working smoothly and staying that way for the most part. I feel like I have a squirrel hospital going on rather than a squirrel rescue that I used to be. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[jo_schmoe]

I am struggling with the fox valley formulas. I hear everyone talk to great about it on here, and I have complete trust in everyone here. As soon as I heard about how wonderful it was and all of the issues with esbilac I placed my order for both kinds and have since placed a second order. But I have encountered a lot of issues and can't believe I am the only one out there seeing these things. After I lost my 4 pinkies to fv formula and spending feeding them around the clock until I was drained of all my energy for 4 days they all got instantaneous bloat and I lost every one of them. Then someone on here told me that pinkies struggle with fv and I should have only given them half strength because their little tummies can't seem to break it down properly. :thinking
Now I have 8 babies on both versions of fv and I really have to watch each of them except the older ones over 7 wks old to see if they are still tolerating it daily. My littlest one was a pinky and we have gotten her through this with weak fv and the occasional need for a syringe of pedialyte. :wott I also have 5 babies that are about 4 to 5 wks old. I am not jumping to the 4 wk or older version because I am still having a lot of issues. They don't potty like they should. I have never had such a time keeping them urinating and pooping without problems. I don't really understand it. I think I am doing the best thing for them by using fv, then I have one that takes me 10 minutes to get her to start peeing and it's a real stain on her as well as me. This should be easy on her at this age. And at them same time another one is constipated, and another one is regurgitating everything I just fed her. Then I am thinking I need to weaken the 2:1 ration yet again. The little one that was regurgitating last night came to me lifeless on friday night from falling very hard. She was limp and dehydrated and nobody thought she would make it. Well she did come around and has been strong and great since Saturday night after gradually going from pedialyte to fv through several small feedings. Now suddenly last night she is having difficulty peeing and pooping. I finally got her to go and it was as if the floodgates came open. She soaked a towel and pooped a ton. Then when I placed her back in her bed she regurgitated everything I had just fed her. This morning I gave her pedialyte again, and am thinking about going out to buy the stuff for Island Rehabbers homemade formula for her. I used it the 4 days it took me originally to get the fv in and my baby loved it. She did wonderful on it. I know it doesn't have all the vitamins as the fv, but maybe she will live. I'm tired. I can't be the only one struggling with issues from this I just can't. I know it. Those 4 pinkies were the first unharmed babies that I have ever lost, and it was full strength fv that did it. The other thing I am considering is just switching the fv to 2:2 ratio and keep it there. They pee and poop properly when I switch it there to straighten them out. I might even be able to switch my 5 wk old babies on up to the older formula at that ratio after a gradual transfer. What do you all think? Honestly, am I the only one? What are your answers to these things when they happen to you? Or are your squirrels just thriving with no issues, and my squirrels just have very tender tummys. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. Believe me. I really value your opinions, and have always seen success with my help on here. I just want things to start working smoothly and staying that way for the most part. I feel like I have a squirrel hospital going on rather than a squirrel rescue that I used to be. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Just hang tight and Im sure one of the rehabbers will be on to answer this. Im not so sure if its the FV...or the way its being mixed. I watered mine down for the first week or so and gradually took it to a 2:1 ratio. I have never had a problem with FV but I also add yogurt to mine. Could there be injuries that are not seen that are causing this?? hmm...I can only say from experience that the FV is quite thick. Are you mixing with hot water?? Is it dissolving all the way?? Are you letting it rest a few hours?? are you keeping the powder cold? So many questions....lol.
Thank you for taking in these babies!! Im sure someone will be on to give you a better opinion.

[ordubismom]

The fv is pretty thick. I do mix it with hot water. I make it the night before I need it. All the powder is stored in my freezer. I mix it with the scoops from my esbilac I used to buy. I level scoop of formula to 2 full scoops of water just like I used to mix the esbilac. I don't know what to say. And I never put a baby directly on full strength. I start with pedialyte for a couple feedings then switch to 4:1 for two feedings, 3:1 for two feedings , then 2:1 if they are doing well with the 3:1. Sometimes it even takes a couple days before the issues start coming up with the 2:1 ratio. It baffles me.

[jo_schmoe]

The fv is pretty thick. I do mix it with hot water. I make it the night before I need it. All the powder is stored in my freezer. I mix it with the scoops from my esbilac I used to buy. I level scoop of formula to 2 full scoops of water just like I used to mix the esbilac. I don't know what to say. And I never put a baby directly on full strength. I start with pedialyte for a couple feedings then switch to 4:1 for two feedings, 3:1 for two feedings , then 2:1 if they are doing well with the 3:1. Sometimes it even takes a couple days before the issues start coming up with the 2:1 ratio. It baffles me.

Wow. You are doing everything right! Maybe give Nick( Fox Valley guy) a call. He's so nice and Im sure can give you some tips to help with this situation.
1-800-679-4666. Dont be shy about calling him. He is more than happy to help...( sometimes its hard to get him off the phone. lol )
I hope this helps.

[island rehabber]

wow...I have never heard anything like this. The only thing I can think of is that it's your water, ordubismom. I am a Fox Valley purist: I add nothing to it....I start pinkies on it at 2 days old with great success and feed full strength (2:1 water/FV) and I've had such good results with it since 2008 I can't imagine what is going wrong over at your house. Unless it's the water, and that can be a very important factor. Can you try using bottled water for about a week to mix your formula, and see if that helps? :dono

[ordubismom]

Sure I'll try anything. It's worth a try. :thumbsup

[NaturesGift]

I second Mauras Opinion! I have never been happier then I am with my FV results. :thumbsup

But the water can have the strangest effects.

[rygel1hardt]

I have always used bottled spring water ( walmart brand ) to mix mine. Never distilled water. Also I NEVER heat the water to make formula or the formula itself in the microwave. I have been using Fox Valley for about eight years and no problems like you are describing. Also I wouldnt consider my formula when mixed to be thick. Is there another rehabber near you that could come over to your house that might be able to help you to access what you may be doing differently? As the others said I would really consider the water. I hope that you can get to the bottm of this quickly. Stacey

[sharpknitter]

I have a grey squirrel that fell from tree and I believe about 3 weeks old as eyes were closed and there was fur. She (cashew) was dehydrated, and I ran out and got kmr on the advice of a vet. She has eatten well, formed the mustard poops, quite a few, however, she is in week number 5 1/2 and for the last three days her poops are almost nonexistent, small and dark. Similar to when I first got her. After reading, this indicated dehydration. I don't understand why. I am weighing her in grams and feeding according to the hours and weight. She does act like she would drink more, but I am going by chart, 7cc for her weight which is 135g approx. What should I do? I have ordered fv formula and should have it on monday, 3 days from now. I was going to introduce rat block also, but I don't know now. She seems healthy otherwise. I have stimulated her, she is peeing on her own, but poops aren't good. Help.

[mpetys]

The other thing I am considering is just switching the fv to 2:2 ratio and keep it there. They pee and poop properly when I switch it there to straighten them out. I might even be able to switch my 5 wk old babies on up to the older formula at that ratio after a gradual transfer. What do you all think? Honestly, am I the only one? What are your answers to these things when they happen to you? Or are your squirrels just thriving with no issues, and my squirrels just have very tender tummys. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. Believe me. I really value your opinions, and have always seen success with my help on here. I just want things to start working smoothly and staying that way for the most part. I feel like I have a squirrel hospital going on rather than a squirrel rescue that I used to be. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

I may have missed it but have you ever said what water you are using? I have been using bottled spring water or drinking water. We are on well water. I don't know what is in our water, probably limestone but I bought a little Proctor Silex electric pot to heat my water up. I do heat up regular tap water when I just want warm water to set my cup of formula in to warm up. And when I want to make formula, I use the bottled water. Just in the month that I have been using this pot, there is so much sediment from the tap water. I clean it out when I want to use the pot for my formula water but am seriously considering buying another one just for my bottled water.

I am just going to throw out my experiences with Fox Valley just on the chance that maybe something might help. Am currently raising my second batch of babies so I am quite the novice at this. The first batch I lost 3 babies due to the Ebsilac problems but the fourth survived and thrived once my overnight shipment of Fox Valley came in. Unfortunately, it was too late for the first three.

On this second batch of babies, I have three. I had a problem with one of them in that he had diarrhea and was losing weight. When I would decide that I would take a stool sample in to make sure it was not anything he needed antibiotics for, his stool would get better and I would put it off only to have it return. To make a long story short, I found out that this little guy could not tolerate the recommended minimal amounts of formula (5 - 7 percent). I had been feeding them and guesstimating when to stop (they stopped eating or their tummies was feeling full and looking rounded). I had no idea how much they weighed as I did not have a scale. So I got a scale and started recording everything. What I found was that one squirrel would take about 7% of her body weight, the next would take between 5 and 6 percent, but the little guy, he would take 5% and more sometimes but I started stopping at 5% as he was looking and feeling really full. He would still have diarrhea. So I started reducing the amounts that he would have at each feeding. What I found when I looked over my notes was that when he was down to 3.5% to 5%, the diarrhea cleared up. So what I found was that this little guy was so sickly and puny from overfeeding. Once I found what worked for him, he made a full recovery although developmentally, he seems to be slower than the other two. I don't mean slower in functioning just that where the others were running and jumping and pouncing at 5 weeks, he didn't start until 7 weeks. He's slower at trying new things. Now four weeks later he is so healthy and can now tolerate the 5 - 7 percent with no problems.

Oh and one other question. I don't understand what you meant when you said something about mixing it at a 2:2 ratio. If you are currently mixing 2 parts water to 1 part powder, then when you mix 2 parts water to 2 parts formula, isn't that thick? And I don't know, but it seems that it would be too rich.

At this point, I agree with a previous poster that you should call Nick at Fox Valley for his input. I know he would want to help figure this out. Please let us know what he says and hopefully, you will have a resolution to this.

Michele in Tampa

[CritterMom]

I have a grey squirrel that fell from tree and I believe about 3 weeks old as eyes were closed and there was fur. She (cashew) was dehydrated, and I ran out and got kmr on the advice of a vet. She has eatten well, formed the mustard poops, quite a few, however, she is in week number 5 1/2 and for the last three days her poops are almost nonexistent, small and dark. Similar to when I first got her. After reading, this indicated dehydration. I don't understand why. I am weighing her in grams and feeding according to the hours and weight. She does act like she would drink more, but I am going by chart, 7cc for her weight which is 135g approx. What should I do? I have ordered fv formula and should have it on monday, 3 days from now. I was going to introduce rat block also, but I don't know now. She seems healthy otherwise. I have stimulated her, she is peeing on her own, but poops aren't good. Help.

First, especially since she is acting like she wants more, try giving her more formula per feeding - as long as she doesn't bloat, she is fine. 5-7% is just a rule of thumb - some want more, some want less. When you get your Fox Valley, make up a batch at a 3 water to 1 powder, and also a batch of the KMR. Do a feeding at 75% KMR and 25% FV. Next feeding at 50/50, next at 25% KMR/75% FV, and then finally, you are on straight FV. Once you do a couple feedings and it goes well, start reducing the water in the FV until you are making it at full strength, which is 2 parts water and 1 part powder. That way you won't shock their system with totally new food all of a sudden.

Second, please make a new thread for your question - I am afraid that your question will get lost here, tucked in the middle of someone else's question and won't get answered promptly.:thumbsup

Edit: You can also sandwich in a feeding of pedialyte in between your normal formula feedings to address any dehydration issues.

[sharpknitter]

I have had a hard time finding out how to post, etc. How do you start a new thread?thx

[CritterMom]

I have had a hard time finding out how to post, etc. How do you start a new thread?thx

Well, start from the main forum page "The Squirrel Board" and look down the list for a room that looks like the right category - say, "Baby Squirrel Questions" and click on that room. Look at the top of the page and you will see a little squirrel sitting on a button that says "New Thread" Click that and you can start a new one - give it a title that is appropriate to your question and ask away!

And don't be afraid to use the "Emergency Life-Threatening" thread if you think you need it. It isn't the place to ask about how to build a cage, but it IS the room that gets the most notice and you wo't ever get yelled at for asking something that isn't "serious" enough!:thumbsup

[mugzeezma]

I am struggling with the fox valley formulas. I hear everyone talk to great about it on here, and I have complete trust in everyone here. As soon as I heard about how wonderful it was and all of the issues with esbilac I placed my order for both kinds and have since placed a second order. But I have encountered a lot of issues and can't believe I am the only one out there seeing these things. After I lost my 4 pinkies to fv formula and spending feeding them around the clock until I was drained of all my energy for 4 days they all got instantaneous bloat and I lost every one of them. Then someone on here told me that pinkies struggle with fv and I should have only given them half strength because their little tummies can't seem to break it down properly. :thinking
Now I have 8 babies on both versions of fv and I really have to watch each of them except the older ones over 7 wks old to see if they are still tolerating it daily. My littlest one was a pinky and we have gotten her through this with weak fv and the occasional need for a syringe of pedialyte. :wott I also have 5 babies that are about 4 to 5 wks old. I am not jumping to the 4 wk or older version because I am still having a lot of issues. They don't potty like they should. I have never had such a time keeping them urinating and pooping without problems. I don't really understand it. I think I am doing the best thing for them by using fv, then I have one that takes me 10 minutes to get her to start peeing and it's a real stain on her as well as me. This should be easy on her at this age. And at them same time another one is constipated, and another one is regurgitating everything I just fed her. Then I am thinking I need to weaken the 2:1 ration yet again. The little one that was regurgitating last night came to me lifeless on friday night from falling very hard. She was limp and dehydrated and nobody thought she would make it. Well she did come around and has been strong and great since Saturday night after gradually going from pedialyte to fv through several small feedings. Now suddenly last night she is having difficulty peeing and pooping. I finally got her to go and it was as if the floodgates came open. She soaked a towel and pooped a ton. Then when I placed her back in her bed she regurgitated everything I had just fed her. This morning I gave her pedialyte again, and am thinking about going out to buy the stuff for Island Rehabbers homemade formula for her. I used it the 4 days it took me originally to get the fv in and my baby loved it. She did wonderful on it. I know it doesn't have all the vitamins as the fv, but maybe she will live. I'm tired. I can't be the only one struggling with issues from this I just can't. I know it. Those 4 pinkies were the first unharmed babies that I have ever lost, and it was full strength fv that did it. The other thing I am considering is just switching the fv to 2:2 ratio and keep it there. They pee and poop properly when I switch it there to straighten them out. I might even be able to switch my 5 wk old babies on up to the older formula at that ratio after a gradual transfer. What do you all think? Honestly, am I the only one? What are your answers to these things when they happen to you? Or are your squirrels just thriving with no issues, and my squirrels just have very tender tummys. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. Believe me. I really value your opinions, and have always seen success with my help on here. I just want things to start working smoothly and staying that way for the most part. I feel like I have a squirrel hospital going on rather than a squirrel rescue that I used to be. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
I don't think it's the Fox Valley. We would love to know what Nick had to say.
This sounds more like an issue of overfeeding to me when I saw the regurgitation and bloating.
I'm sorry for your loss :grouphug
this is not an easy task even for the seasoned.

[sharpknitter]

thx!

[mugzeezma]

I have a grey squirrel that fell from tree and I believe about 3 weeks old as eyes were closed and there was fur. She (cashew) was dehydrated, and I ran out and got kmr on the advice of a vet. She has eatten well, formed the mustard poops, quite a few, however, she is in week number 5 1/2 and for the last three days her poops are almost nonexistent, small and dark. Similar to when I first got her. After reading, this indicated dehydration. I don't understand why. I am weighing her in grams and feeding according to the hours and weight. She does act like she would drink more, but I am going by chart, 7cc for her weight which is 135g approx. What should I do? I have ordered fv formula and should have it on monday, 3 days from now. I was going to introduce rat block also, but I don't know now. She seems healthy otherwise. I have stimulated her, she is peeing on her own, but poops aren't good. Help.
In this case go by fullness not by numbers. the baby will suck until beyond satiation so watch the tummy doesn't get too round but rather fullness at the groin line.

[jo_schmoe]

In this case go by fullness not by numbers. the baby will suck until beyond satiation so watch the tummy doesn't get too round but rather fullness at the groin line.

Well said!! I couldnt agree more!!

[psychobird]

i've had good success with the fv also, i start my babies on a very weak formula like 5.1 for a couple of feedings (i feed more often with the weaker formula only feeding at the recommended times once they are on full strength) after i of course have them fully hydrated with pedialyte.
then work up a to the 2.1 over a few days as long as poops look good.
i would make sure everyone is nice and warm.
you may want to have a fecal done, we have been battling coccidia up here in mass this year it's so contagious

[psychobird]

i use spring water for little guys, but once they have their eyes open i use tap water.
i read somewhere that the chlorine which we have in our tap water will kill all the good probiotics in formula.
i make my baby bird formula with bottled water also, if i happen to run out i will boil the water for a couple of minutes before i make up a batch just to get rid of chlorine

[jo_schmoe]

i use spring water for little guys, but once they have their eyes open i use tap water.
i read somewhere that the chlorine which we have in our tap water will kill all the good probiotics in formula.
i make my baby bird formula with bottled water also, if i happen to run out i will boil the water for a couple of minutes before i make up a batch just to get rid of chlorine

Not to mention the fluoride they add!! Its one of the leading causes of osteoporosis in humans so I cant imagine its good for anything!! And with these guys being so prone to MBD...I will use spring water forever!! I even give it to the wilds outside. Its cheap...like 79 cents a gallon.

[psychobird]

Not to mention the fluoride they add!! Its one of the leading causes of osteoporosis in humans so I cant imagine its good for anything!! And with these guys being so prone to MBD...I will use spring water forever!! I even give it to the wilds outside. Its cheap...like 79 cents a gallon.
your right we should, just not affordable with all the critters here in my house

[jo_schmoe]

your right we should, just not affordable with all the critters here in my house

I think the Brita filters get the fluoride and bleach out. Im not sure but I was told this. Also...an R/O system is helpful but is not cost wise. You can get a huge 5 gallon jug filled with spring water at wally world for like 2 bucks. That should last and is just as cheap as tap water. ( look at your bill )

[ordubismom]

Well, I switched right away to bottled water and even made it quite warm several times before mixing it together. Although I am certain that our city water does not have fluoride in it at all, not sure about Chlorine. That was a mistake when I wrote about switching to 2:2, just a typo. I would mix it have 1 scoop of fv to 3 scoops of water to clear them up when they got stopped up. 6 out of 8 of my squirrels are very underdeveloped and I am finished with fv. Thanks for all of your concern. It's not as great as it's made out to be. I wish I had not purchased as much as I did. I am considering throwing it away today. That is how certain I am it is the formula. I am not new at this. This is my 10th year at this and these are the first I have ever encountered such issues with my babies. I am ashamed to say that I continued to even try working with this formula after losing the 4 pinkies to it, and then having these 8 struggle through the continuing issues. I am glad you are not having the same issues, but I am and the only thing that has changed is the formula. Since I have to make it the night before and let it sit overnight just like I would the esbilac anyway, I think I am going back to the trusted source. Thanks for all of your help.

[momma2boo]

Is the filtered water from the Glazier machine ok to use? It is not distilled just purified through filtering.

[psychobird]

don't throw it out! send it to meeee!

[psychobird]

did you get a fecal done??

[mpetys]

Did you get a chance to talk to Nick at Fox Valley? I would be very interested in hearing what he had to say. I am sure he would like to talk to you about this. I just can't help but think if it is not something on your end, then the other possibility is that you got a bad batch or something? If it is a bad batch, then I would consider it a favor to all of us who do use Fox Valley if you were to alert Nick that you were having problems. That way they could nip it in the bud and possibly prevent the same thing happening to others. I don't know what his policy is on returns and refunds but you never know, it wouldn't hurt to ask.

For me, Ebsilac scares me as I lost three babies back in January and the fourth who looked like I was losing, made a recovery when I switched to Fox Valley.

Michele in Tampa

[mugzeezma]

Well, I switched right away to bottled water and even made it quite warm several times before mixing it together. Although I am certain that our city water does not have fluoride in it at all, not sure about Chlorine. That was a mistake when I wrote about switching to 2:2, just a typo. I would mix it have 1 scoop of fv to 3 scoops of water to clear them up when they got stopped up. 6 out of 8 of my squirrels are very underdeveloped and I am finished with fv. Thanks for all of your concern. It's not as great as it's made out to be. I wish I had not purchased as much as I did. I am considering throwing it away today. That is how certain I am it is the formula. I am not new at this. This is my 10th year at this and these are the first I have ever encountered such issues with my babies. I am ashamed to say that I continued to even try working with this formula after losing the 4 pinkies to it, and then having these 8 struggle through the continuing issues. I am glad you are not having the same issues, but I am and the only thing that has changed is the formula. Since I have to make it the night before and let it sit overnight just like I would the esbilac anyway, I think I am going back to the trusted source. Thanks for all of your help.
Nick has told me that he would rather replace a batch that someone had that was expired than have any outstanding issues. Apparently this has happened before. Nick is extremely accountable for his product. His family stands behind their products.

[mpetys]

Nick has told me that he would rather replace a batch that someone had that was expired than have any outstanding issues. Apparently this has happened before. Nick is extremely accountable for his product. His family stands behind their products.

That is what I was thinking he would do. The first time I ordered from Nick I was in a panic and required overnight shipping. He was so kind and spent a lot of time with me on the phone. I was really impressed with his customer service.

Michele in Tampa

[ordubismom]

I have tried to call him three times and he has not answered. I will try to call him again. He is very nice I totally agree. But I am very interested in seeing if my tiny 8wk old babies start to grow and my 4wk old gets hair covering after their gradual switch over to esbilac. I will be adding yogurt and whipping cream to my esbilac, but I think it will turn them around. If I am wrong, I will be the first to say. I won't take a chance with my babies. I think that few people are bold enough to fully state their problems on this site. I have had private messages that let me know I am not alone, but nothing on the board. People need to know it is causing problems. If my babies show the first sign of issues after the switch. I will put them back on the fv, but my gut feeling says they will thrive.

[island rehabber]

Ordubismom, there is no reason for anyone to feel they can't speak freely about differences in formula or problems with formula. Nobody here is getting kickbacks from Fox Valley to say only good things about them (unlike what I've heard about rehabbers on some other boards regarding Pet AG :shakehead). We all want to know if there's a problem so that we can investigate and not have hundreds of babies sick and dying before anyone puts two and two together.

And just because one rehabber has great luck with something doesn't mean another rehabber will, too. For example, me, I have no use for Sulfatrim. When I try to use it for pneumonia or infection - NO RESULTS. Other people swear by it. Go figure! :dono

[gs1]

:grouphug

i'm a big believer in the fv ... but after what you've been through i couldn't fault you for following your gut....

i'd really be interested in one of our rehabbers getting your batch and seeing what they could find....(is this the batch that you lost the 4 babies to?)

maybe we could buy it from you? ...

i'm sorry nick is not answering his phone.... sometimes it takes a few attempts....

:grouphug

[momma2boo]

I have tried to call him three times and he has not answered. I will try to call him again. He is very nice I totally agree. But I am very interested in seeing if my tiny 8wk old babies start to grow and my 4wk old gets hair covering after their gradual switch over to esbilac. I will be adding yogurt and whipping cream to my esbilac, but I think it will turn them around. If I am wrong, I will be the first to say. I won't take a chance with my babies. I think that few people are bold enough to fully state their problems on this site. I have had private messages that let me know I am not alone, but nothing on the board. People need to know it is causing problems. If my babies show the first sign of issues after the switch. I will put them back on the fv, but my gut feeling says they will thrive.


Just so you know ... Nick's business is family run and he does most of the order filling by himself. I know over one weekend the poor man was on non stop long into the morning hours trying to fill and mail out everyone's orders. I am sure he will get back to you ASAP.

Do you have his email address? If not, PM me and I will give it to you.

Julie

[mugzeezma]

Ordubismom, there is no reason for anyone to feel they can't speak freely about differences in formula or problems with formula. Nobody here is getting kickbacks from Fox Valley to say only good things about them (unlike what I've heard about rehabbers on some other boards regarding Pet AG :shakehead). We all want to know if there's a problem so that we can investigate and not have hundreds of babies sick and dying before anyone puts two and two together.

And just because one rehabber has great luck with something doesn't mean another rehabber will, too. For example, me, I have no use for Sulfatrim. When I try to use it for pneumonia or infection - NO RESULTS. Other people swear by it. Go figure! :dono

Personally I use FV because of cost AND the plant is nearby. The wildlife centers here use Esbilac w/ Multi Milk with success. It's an easily donatable item.

[Lady Squirrelly]

I was having terrible problems with formula year. I was at Anne's so often, my car was on auto pilot.:D

I have been doing this for 7 or 8 years. When we had Esbi-crap problems last year, I switched to FV. I was VERY pleased. It smelled better and the baby pee did not smell as bad.

This year has been a nightmare. Loose poops, skinny babies, and I think it caused me to lose two.

I hate feeling ribs and backbones. The number one rule at my house is "No skinny babies."

Jolene was my first baby of the season. She was a single for quite a while and my first problem. Anne gave meds and she finally cleared up but is now stunted. Maybe it was the tummy problems or maybe she was just always set to be very small. She got OK but skinny and then I got more babies.

I started having more problems.

I had three on meds, they would clear up, go off meds, and right back to the liquid poops. Everyone else was doing OK but not great.

I tried every thing except changing the water. It has always been fine. I had to replace my hot water heater and the water was cut off most of one day. I had to go to the local mini market and buy bottled water for formula. I only used it for the time my water was out. It was only 2 feedings. Then swithched back to my usual hot tap water.

Things were still bad. I was to the point of taking all my babies to Anne and giving them up. The person that I am, knew the problem HAD to be ME and I felt I was killing babies. I could not live with that idea.

After reading this thread again and thinking about it, I went and got the bottled water. It takes extra steps in mixing but I had to try.

I mix the formula with the cold water and slowly heat it in a hot water bath by placing the milk container in a coffee mug of hot water on a drink warmer. I have to shake it from time to time as it warms. I also have to start before they are ready to eat so the formula warms up enough. I really like the warmer because the formula stays warm and does not usually get too hot. This is the first time I have ever used one but when the Christmas sales start and they are in all the stores, I will stock up.

IT WORKED!!! Tummies settled down, and skinny babies chunked up. I did lose one sweet soul, Jason and a tiny unnamed 2 week old girl. I switched too late for those sweet ones.

RIP little ones, Mommy is so sorry.:grouphug

It is just natural spring water but it has made the difference in all my darlings. I have 9 right now. 5 should leave before winter and the last 4 will winter over with me.

It was not me, it was not the Fox Valley, it was the water.

[ordubismom]

Wow. It really was the water? I tried switching to bottled water, but when I did that it was not mixing well at all. I then tried putting it in a blender. That didn't do much for it. I guess the whole thing just totally overwhelmed me, and I was not blaming myself. I have raised too many babies and I made the fv exactly like I made the esbilac. It just didn't seem to do well with them. I don't like feeling ribs either, and I have the tiniest batch of babies I have ever seen. My 4 wk old baby just started getting hair. Everyone is doing well right now with the esbilac, yogurt, whipping cream. Poops and pees are doing wonderful, and they are starting to plump up. Maybe once I get past this episode which has cost me much concern, I will try some of my fv again with a new strong baby by mixing it with spring water the way you suggested and see in all comes out good. Thanks for you input, I appreciate it.

[CritterMom]

I can't urge you strongly enough to contact Nick at Fox Valley and discuss this with him. He actually cares and wants this information - this isn't a giant, soulless corporation you are dealing with, and if there are problems he wants to fix them. You can give him all of the details of how you fixed the formula and the results -what he learns from you could help make a better formula...

[island rehabber]

I mix my FV with VERY hot water. It comes out of our condo boiler at about 124* I think, and I let that faucet run HOT. Just a thought. :dono