New to this site - need help with my OAP

[pinkpipsan]

Hi

I have just registered to this site as I am looking for some advice regarding my 7 year old squirrel.

I was given my squirrel after she had been hand reared after falling out of a tree back in winter 2003. Animal welfare had advised that I couldn't realise her due to the amount of time she had already spend in captivity, I now know I was given incorrect advice and that she could have been realised back in spring 2004 (it is illegal to realise them in the UK so believe I was told I couldn't for this reason and not for the good of the squirrel). However, as she is now 7 it is too late to let her go.

Throughout the 7 years I have had my squirrel she has never had any health problems until the last week. Last Wednesday I noticed that she seemed very lethargic. Her appetite has decreased and she just seems to sleep - a lot. When I get her out she seems fine, she runs around and plays as normal but the second she goes back in to the cage she just curls up in the corner again and doesn't seem interested in much, other than being loved, she can usually be quite aggressive but is now being very placid and really enjoying being fussed. She is drinking fine, normal bowl movements, no injuries I can find and she is happy for me to touch her (no reaction as if in pain) and does still have an appetite but not what it is normally. She also has a weight problem, about 2 years ago she ballooned from a pretty average weight to about 2-3 times the size she should be, and regardless of how I change her diet she doesn't seem to lose any. She currently has a mixture of shelled and unshelled nuts with fresh fruit and vegetables.

I was just wondering if anybody had any ideas of what could have caused this sudden change in her behaviour? I'm sure to most people they wouldn't think anything is wrong with her but I know she is acting out of character but cannot find any physical problems. Could she be depressed? Could it be that the cold isn't setting in here in the UK or could it just be her age? I understand 7 is a good age for a squirrel.

Any help you could give me would be great as I am very worried about her.

Thanks

Pip

[lilidukes]

Hi, Pinkpipsan:Welcome , just wanted to greet you and let you know that someone much more knowledgeable than me will be with you soon. Welcome to TBS where Squirrels are a priority.

[mugzeezma]

Hi

I have just registered to this site as I am looking for some advice regarding my 7 year old squirrel.

I was given my squirrel after she had been hand reared after falling out of a tree back in winter 2003. Animal welfare had advised that I couldn't realise her due to the amount of time she had already spend in captivity, I now know I was given incorrect advice and that she could have been realised back in spring 2004 (it is illegal to realise them in the UK so believe I was told I couldn't for this reason and not for the good of the squirrel). However, as she is now 7 it is too late to let her go.

Throughout the 7 years I have had my squirrel she has never had any health problems until the last week. Last Wednesday I noticed that she seemed very lethargic. Her appetite has decreased and she just seems to sleep - a lot. When I get her out she seems fine, she runs around and plays as normal but the second she goes back in to the cage she just curls up in the corner again and doesn't seem interested in much, other than being loved, she can usually be quite aggressive but is now being very placid and really enjoying being fussed. She is drinking fine, normal bowl movements, no injuries I can find and she is happy for me to touch her (no reaction as if in pain) and does still have an appetite but not what it is normally. She also has a weight problem, about 2 years ago she ballooned from a pretty average weight to about 2-3 times the size she should be, and regardless of how I change her diet she doesn't seem to lose any. She currently has a mixture of shelled and unshelled nuts with fresh fruit and vegetables.

I was just wondering if anybody had any ideas of what could have caused this sudden change in her behaviour? I'm sure to most people they wouldn't think anything is wrong with her but I know she is acting out of character but cannot find any physical problems. Could she be depressed? Could it be that the cold isn't setting in here in the UK or could it just be her age? I understand 7 is a good age for a squirrel.

Any help you could give me would be great as I am very worried about her.

Thanks

Pip
First off
Do you have any pictures?
I don't know what I can do to help but at least we can do question/answer and perhaps narrow down things.
Age
This is a pretty good age for a squirrel. They can live much longer. I wonder If it may be a hormonal change. She's just slowing down.
Depression
What size cage is she in? Squirrels in the wild are pretty interactive and social when they are young, more solitary when they are older. Could the weight gain be due to less activity? Does she have stimulating things to do like toys and climbing objects? Try changing things around and adding new elements to stimulate her.
Do you give her any natural/wild food, green branches, leaves? What about a pan of dirt to dig and play in?
I would look into providing a more stimulating environment if you haven't already.
Diet
This probably should have been first on the list. Does She get daily sunlight? Do you have a full spectrum lamp for her?
Calcium and D3 in any foods she is given? Is she on Rat Block of any kind to supplement her diet? Squirrels have a very complex diet in the wild. They eat everything from berries to fruit to garden vegetables., insects, birds eggs, nuts (green and dried), lichens, leaves, etc. They eat anything and everything available to them.
Diabetes
Rare in squirrels from what I know but if her weight is high...:thinking
How is her urine output? Does she drink excessively?
Tumors
When you handle her do you notice any 'unevenness' or 'masses' in her? Tumors can cause fluid build up
Weight
I would change her diet and get her more exercise.
Veterinary care
Do you have access to an exotic animal vet?
I hope this helps

[CritterMom]

Is she eating any kind of commercial rat diet? If not, my concern is that you are seeing the forst signs of metabolic bone disease.

Squirrels require a LOT of calcium and other minerals - much more than most animals, and if they do not receive enough their body begins to strip it out of their bones. The initial signs that many people see is this overall lethargy. As it progresses, things get a lot worse - culminating in seizures and death. Don't mean to frighten you...and with the proper dies she can be turned right around.

An easy way to see if this is an issue is to give her some fairly high doses of calcium and if you start to see improvement, you know you have your answer. Try to find a human calcium supplement without the Vitamin D - they need D but not as much as we do. A popular one here in the US is the antacid Tums, which is made entirely of calcium - they are 500mg I believe. Grind up and mix with either a little water or juice and get the entire 500 mg into her in a day, broken up into several treatments. Sometimes, they actually like the Tums and will sit and eat them like a nut! If you get that dosage a day into her for several days and start to see improvement, you know you need to address her calcium needs from then on.

They love nuts - like I love pizza - but neither one of us should eat a lot of them. I suspect this may also be at the botom of her weight issues. We try to limit nuts to two per day. The majority of her diet should be some type of rat block - not rat food that is made up of seeds and corn and stuff, I'm talking about something that is more like a pellet. I don't know what is available in the UK but I'm sure something is. There is also a recipe here that one of our members provided - she makes these blocks as part of her business but has kindly provided the recipe for those who want to make their own:http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21233

You will need to convert to celcius for baking, etc.

The idea is to get them to eat the blocks each day, supplemented with a variety of fresh veggies and a small amount of fruits. Due to the weight issues with your squirrel and the diabetes worries that accompany it, I would cut the fruit down to almost nothing. At the end of the day, if she is a good girl and has eaten her blocks, she gets her nut (YAY!!).

The blocks have the calcium and other minerals that they need in them already, so once you convert her to blocks you can stop with the additional calcium supplementation.

She is likely to be resistant to the idea, to say the least. Like a child who has been raised on McDonalds and cheetos suddenly thrust into a vegan lifestyle, you may not be her favorite person for a while! But if you get her diet straightened out and she loses some of the weight and has her mineral needs covered, she is going to be a healthier, happier girl.

So give the calcium a try and please stay with us here so we can help. We have lots of tricks up our sleeves for getting pouting squirrels to eat their healthy food!

If you go to the "Life Threatening" thread you will see a bunch of posts at the top of the page related to MBD that you should read, too.

[pinkpipsan]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply, I've answered your questions below.
Do you have any pictures?
I haven't got any pictures uploaded but I can get some to you later.
AgeA sanctuary I am in touch with have also said this could be hormones but it just happened so fast.
Depression
What size cage is she in? Her cage stand about 5 foot tall and has several levels and some hanging toys. Could the weight gain be due to less activity? Yes, she is getting less active as she gets older, even when she is out she prefers to sit and be fussed than run around and climb.Does she have stimulating things to do like toys and climbing objects? She does have toys and climbing objects but shows very little interest in these now.
Do you give her any natural/wild food, green branches, leaves? What about a pan of dirt to dig and play in? No, I am not sure what would be safe and what would be harmful, any advice would be great. I like the idea of dirt to dig in but have never tried this.
I would look into providing a more stimulating environment if you haven't already.
Diet
This probably should have been first on the list. Does She get daily sunlight? Do you have a full spectrum lamp for her? Her cage is in a well lit room but I do not have a lamp for her, I have never had one. I am hoping to re-home her soon as a sanctuary have offered to take her where she will have an outside run mixed with other Squirrels her age, this won't be happening for about a month though and don't want to see her get any worse before I can do this.
Calcium and D3 in any foods she is given? Is she on Rat Block of any kind to supplement her diet? I don't add anything to her food, she just gets fruit/veg and nuts, I will look in to the rat block, can you advise the best supplement for her?Squirrels have a very complex diet in the wild. They eat everything from berries to fruit to garden vegetables., insects, birds eggs, nuts (green and dried), lichens, leaves, etc. They eat anything and everything available to them.
Diabetes
Rare in squirrels from what I know but if her weight is high...
How is her urine output? Does she drink excessively? She drinks and average amount, I see her at her bottle about 2-3 times a day and doesn't seem to excessive urine output.
Tumors
When you handle her do you notice any 'unevenness' or 'masses' in her? Tumors can cause fluid build up I haven't noticed anything, I have given her a full body inspection and cannot feel any lumps or bumps, there is nothing out of the ordinary I can find.
Weight
I would change her diet and get her more exercise.
Veterinary care
Do you have access to an exotic animal vet? I have just got the name and number of a vet my local wildlife sanctuary use so I can contact them if I need to, I wanted to avoid this if possible as she has never left the house and wanted to avoid the stress if not required.
I hope this helps

[pinkpipsan]

Is she eating any kind of commercial rat diet? If not, my concern is that you are seeing the forst signs of metabolic bone disease.

Squirrels require a LOT of calcium and other minerals - much more than most animals, and if they do not receive enough their body begins to strip it out of their bones. The initial signs that many people see is this overall lethargy. As it progresses, things get a lot worse - culminating in seizures and death. Don't mean to frighten you...and with the proper dies she can be turned right around.

An easy way to see if this is an issue is to give her some fairly high doses of calcium and if you start to see improvement, you know you have your answer. Try to find a human calcium supplement without the Vitamin D - they need D but not as much as we do. A popular one here in the US is the antacid Tums, which is made entirely of calcium - they are 500mg I believe. Grind up and mix with either a little water or juice and get the entire 500 mg into her in a day, broken up into several treatments. Sometimes, they actually like the Tums and will sit and eat them like a nut! If you get that dosage a day into her for several days and start to see improvement, you know you need to address her calcium needs from then on.

They love nuts - like I love pizza - but neither one of us should eat a lot of them. I suspect this may also be at the botom of her weight issues. We try to limit nuts to two per day. The majority of her diet should be some type of rat block - not rat food that is made up of seeds and corn and stuff, I'm talking about something that is more like a pellet. I don't know what is available in the UK but I'm sure something is. There is also a recipe here that one of our members provided - she makes these blocks as part of her business but has kindly provided the recipe for those who want to make their own:http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21233

You will need to convert to celcius for baking, etc.

The idea is to get them to eat the blocks each day, supplemented with a variety of fresh veggies and a small amount of fruits. Due to the weight issues with your squirrel and the diabetes worries that accompany it, I would cut the fruit down to almost nothing. At the end of the day, if she is a good girl and has eaten her blocks, she gets her nut (YAY!!).

The blocks have the calcium and other minerals that they need in them already, so once you convert her to blocks you can stop with the additional calcium supplementation.

She is likely to be resistant to the idea, to say the least. Like a child who has been raised on McDonalds and cheetos suddenly thrust into a vegan lifestyle, you may not be her favorite person for a while! But if you get her diet straightened out and she loses some of the weight and has her mineral needs covered, she is going to be a healthier, happier girl.

So give the calcium a try and please stay with us here so we can help. We have lots of tricks up our sleeves for getting pouting squirrels to eat their healthy food!

If you go to the "Life Threatening" thread you will see a bunch of posts at the top of the page related to MBD that you should read, too.

Thanks so much for your reply.

I also keep rats but have never been aware of a rat block, they do however have a rat pellet which includes everything they need, do you suggest I try this?

I will have a look at the ingriedients in our tums and see if this looks suitable, I think she would eat these quite happily as they are fruit flavoured. I will also cut way back on her nuts, her fav food is tomato, is this still ok?

[mugzeezma]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply, I've answered your questions below.
Do you have any pictures?
I haven't got any pictures uploaded but I can get some to you later.
AgeA sanctuary I am in touch with have also said this could be hormones but it just happened so fast.
Depression
What size cage is she in? Her cage stand about 5 foot tall and has several levels and some hanging toys. Could the weight gain be due to less activity? Yes, she is getting less active as she gets older, even when she is out she prefers to sit and be fussed than run around and climb.Does she have stimulating things to do like toys and climbing objects? She does have toys and climbing objects but shows very little interest in these now.
Do you give her any natural/wild food, green branches, leaves? What about a pan of dirt to dig and play in? No, I am not sure what would be safe and what would be harmful, any advice would be great. I like the idea of dirt to dig in but have never tried this.
I would look into providing a more stimulating environment if you haven't already.
Diet
This probably should have been first on the list. Does She get daily sunlight? Do you have a full spectrum lamp for her? Her cage is in a well lit room but I do not have a lamp for her, I have never had one. I am hoping to re-home her soon as a sanctuary have offered to take her where she will have an outside run mixed with other Squirrels her age, this won't be happening for about a month though and don't want to see her get any worse before I can do this.
Calcium and D3 in any foods she is given? Is she on Rat Block of any kind to supplement her diet? I don't add anything to her food, she just gets fruit/veg and nuts, I will look in to the rat block, can you advise the best supplement for her?Squirrels have a very complex diet in the wild. They eat everything from berries to fruit to garden vegetables., insects, birds eggs, nuts (green and dried), lichens, leaves, etc. They eat anything and everything available to them.
Diabetes
Rare in squirrels from what I know but if her weight is high...
How is her urine output? Does she drink excessively? She drinks and average amount, I see her at her bottle about 2-3 times a day and doesn't seem to excessive urine output.
Tumors
When you handle her do you notice any 'unevenness' or 'masses' in her? Tumors can cause fluid build up I haven't noticed anything, I have given her a full body inspection and cannot feel any lumps or bumps, there is nothing out of the ordinary I can find.
Weight
I would change her diet and get her more exercise.
Veterinary care
Do you have access to an exotic animal vet? I have just got the name and number of a vet my local wildlife sanctuary use so I can contact them if I need to, I wanted to avoid this if possible as she has never left the house and wanted to avoid the stress if not required.
I hope this helps
Because you are in the UK I don't know what you have available. I would talk to the folks at the sanctuary and see what they feed. That would be my vote especially if you are serious about taking her there. THe sooner you acclimate her to that diet the better off she'll be.You can try giving the TUMS treatment for MBD and see if that helps.
Harlan Teklad makes a wonderful rat block. Get the 2014. I don't know who you would order it from to avoid overseas shipping.
As far as green branches are concerned, any oak, maple, walnut, ash, poplar, birch, willow, branches would be safe.
For transport you can place your girl in a pillowcase and place her in a chew proof carrier.
that is so wonderful that you are considering taking her to a sanctuary. A very unselfish thing for you to do. It must be a very tough decision. I personally would be heartbroken but happy for her. You are a better person for it. :grouphug

[mugzeezma]

Thanks so much for your reply.

I also keep rats but have never been aware of a rat block, they do however have a rat pellet which includes everything they need, do you suggest I try this?

I will have a look at the ingriedients in our tums and see if this looks suitable, I think she would eat these quite happily as they are fruit flavoured. I will also cut way back on her nuts, her fav food is tomato, is this still ok?
Tomatoes are great! :D
Yes try the "everything they need" rat block. she may snub it though in which case you will have to take away her nuts ...and she will be MAD!!! Be careful with nut crazed squirrels too. It's the only time I have seen my kids get mean.

[pinkpipsan]

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I have looked online and unfortunately can't find anywhere to buy Harlan Teklad rat block.

The complete rat diet I use for my rats has the following ingriedients

Ingredient(s):

Wheat, Maize, Peas, Soya, Chicken Meal, Poultry Fat, Dicalcium Phosphate, Fructo-Oligosaccharides.

Typical Analysis:

Moisture 9%, Protein 16%, Oils and Fats 4.5%, Fibre 3.5%, Ash 4%.

Would this be suitable?

Thanks

[mugzeezma]

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I have looked online and unfortunately can't find anywhere to buy Harlan Teklad rat block.

The complete rat diet I use for my rats has the following ingriedients

Ingredient(s):

Wheat, Maize, Peas, Soya, Chicken Meal, Poultry Fat, Dicalcium Phosphate, Fructo-Oligosaccharides.

Typical Analysis:

Moisture 9%, Protein 16%, Oils and Fats 4.5%, Fibre 3.5%, Ash 4%.

Would this be suitable?

Thanks
Looks okay but I would like to look it up on line and check it out. What is the name of it and the company it's made by?
2 good all in one rat blocks along with fresh fruit, veg and greens and a nut or two for a treat is a healthy diet. The rat blocks supply the proper daily nutrients not found in the rest of the diet.

[Jackie in Tampa]

she may be diabetic
why would you give her away ...she is a house sq after 7 years and knows only you...
talk about stress...taking her to the vet is cake walk compaired to putting her out right before winter far away from you and with wild animals...
:peace :peace :peace :peace :peace
not starting a contravery...just hurts my heart and tummy to read this...she gets older and tired, maybe not getting proper sunlight and diet and she gets kicked to the curb...
:peace :peace :peace :peace :peace
:(

[pinkpipsan]

she may be diabetic
why would you give her away ...she is a house sq after 7 years and knows only you...
talk about stress...taking her to the vet is cake walk compaired to putting her out right before winter far away from you and with wild animals...
:peace :peace :peace :peace :peace
not starting a contravery...just hurts my heart and tummy to read this...she gets older and tired, maybe not getting proper sunlight and diet and she gets kicked to the curb...
:peace :peace :peace :peace :peace
:(
I can assure you that she is not getting 'kicked to the curb'. This has been one of the most difficult and painful decisions I have ever had to make. The sanctuary she is going have a lot of experience in re homing pet squirrels and have assured me that humans pine much more than the squirrel itself. Most re homed squirrels do not even recognise their previous owners within a month. She is not being re homed with wild animals but with 4 other previous pet squirrels that cannot be put back in the wild. I love to think that she is as attached to me as I am to her but I'm sure this isn't the case. I have had to remove human emotion from this and do what I believe is best for her. I decided that being caged for most of the day because I am at work is not the best thing but that being able to mix with her own and have a big outdoor run would probably suit her much more. I can also assure you that this decision hurts my heart and tummy more than it does you.

[Ronda]

Hello and welcome--you have come to a great place for advice! I have to agree with Jackie here, you have had your squirrel so long, and she has apparently been healthy-is there some reason she has to go to a sanctuary? I hope she feels better with a few diet changes - good luck with her, cannot wait to see pics!

[Jackie in Tampa]

I am sure it is diffecult...:Love_Icon
I have an eight year old grey that would die without me:Love_Icon

[pinkpipsan]

First off
Do you have any pictures?
I don't know what I can do to help but at least we can do question/answer and perhaps narrow down things.
Age
This is a pretty good age for a squirrel. They can live much longer. I wonder If it may be a hormonal change. She's just slowing down.
Depression
What size cage is she in? Squirrels in the wild are pretty interactive and social when they are young, more solitary when they are older. Could the weight gain be due to less activity? Does she have stimulating things to do like toys and climbing objects? Try changing things around and adding new elements to stimulate her.
Do you give her any natural/wild food, green branches, leaves? What about a pan of dirt to dig and play in?
I would look into providing a more stimulating environment if you haven't already.
Diet
This probably should have been first on the list. Does She get daily sunlight? Do you have a full spectrum lamp for her?
Calcium and D3 in any foods she is given? Is she on Rat Block of any kind to supplement her diet? Squirrels have a very complex diet in the wild. They eat everything from berries to fruit to garden vegetables., insects, birds eggs, nuts (green and dried), lichens, leaves, etc. They eat anything and everything available to them.
Diabetes
Rare in squirrels from what I know but if her weight is high...:thinking
How is her urine output? Does she drink excessively?
Tumors
When you handle her do you notice any 'unevenness' or 'masses' in her? Tumors can cause fluid build up
Weight
I would change her diet and get her more exercise.
Veterinary care
Do you have access to an exotic animal vet?
I hope this helps
Hi

I am looking for a lamp on-line, would a full spectrum craft light be suitable/big enough, it stands about 30cm tall?

Also, she will not eat the tums no matter what I hide it in so I have ordered some calcivet which is calcium and vitamin D3 to add to her water.

Thanks

[CritterMom]

The problem with the full spectrum craft lights is that they are visual full spectrum only - that is, the light looks full spectrum, and is great for reducing eyestrain if you do knitting or something, but it does not emit both UVA and UVB.

The only true full spectrum lamps I know of are made for reptiles, and that is where I would look. Reptiles are notorious for getting metabolic bone disease, so they are a must if you keep them. Zoo Med makes a fluorescent called Repti Sun in 5.0 and 10.0 strengths (5.0 is for shallow enclosures, 10.0 for deeper). If you can get a couple Repti Sun 10.0 lamps - and they will fit in standard fluorescent T-8 fixtures, as they make various lengths, you will have the best true full spectrum lighting that is readily available. It will be a lot less expensive than the Ott lamp stand you are describing, too. If you cannot find the brand, look into reptile lighting - you literally cannot keep them without the lamps, so they should be available.

Try to go with the fluorescent tubes instead of the compact fluorescents, too - the compacts are so bright they can actually hurt their eyes.

[mugzeezma]

Hi

I am looking for a lamp on-line, would a full spectrum craft light be suitable/big enough, it stands about 30cm tall?

Also, she will not eat the tums no matter what I hide it in so I have ordered some calcivet which is calcium and vitamin D3 to add to her water.

Thanks
A full spectrum light bulb made for reptiles (they are prone to MBD as well)...UVA UVB...is what you need. Don't get a red one. Those are infrared.

[stosh2010]

Buena Suerte--Good Luck--with what ever decision you make. Sharing your life with a squirrel is a special (and demanding) lifstyle, but the reward is immeasurable. As you know. I have only been a Fur-Ball parent for 9 months--and I am "Stricken"....
Pray for Guidance...
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Stosh >>> Keeper of the KING ( of Costa Rica )

[pinkpipsan]

A full spectrum light bulb made for reptiles (they are prone to MBD as well)...UVA UVB...is what you need. Don't get a red one. Those are infrared.
So I've just got home and feeling a lot better. I have a full spectrum uva and uvb reptile lamp attached to her cage and she already seems to have an energy boost! She's sat tucking in to a salad of calcium rich spring greens with some broccoli and tomato. She's eaten more tonight than I've seen her eat in a week. I haven't been able to get her to eat tums but have a calcium liquid on its way to add to her water specifically made for small rodents.

One question I have about the lamp is how many hours a day should this be on for?

Thanks so much for your help this far. :thankyou