aspiration pneumonia

[Pingu]

Hello, my name is christina. I have recently aquired an orphaned black squirrel. I have successfully raised many red squirrels but this is my first of this kind. I am pretty sure he is 5 weeks old, I have had him a week and his eyes first opened 2 days ago. Everything was going perfectly until today, he seems to have all the signs I know of aspiration pneumonia. Clicking, open mouth breathing, loss of appetite and loss of energy. His eyes are half open too. Vets in my area will only put down sick wildlife, as its illigal to take them in. I tried the vet and rehabbers, each saying they will put it down.

Does my little guy (Pingu) stand a chance? I really want to help him survive if I can. Is there any possible home remedies or is he bound to die?

thanks,

- Christina

[mugzeezma]

Hello, my name is christina. I have recently aquired an orphaned black squirrel. I have successfully raised many red squirrels but this is my first of this kind. I am pretty sure he is 5 weeks old, I have had him a week and his eyes first opened 2 days ago. Everything was going perfectly until today, he seems to have all the signs I know of aspiration pneumonia. Clicking, open mouth breathing, loss of appetite and loss of energy. His eyes are half open too. Vets in my area will only put down sick wildlife, as its illigal to take them in. I tried the vet and rehabbers, each saying they will put it down.

Does my little guy (Pingu) stand a chance? I really want to help him survive if I can. Is there any possible home remedies or is he bound to die?

thanks,

- Christina
THe open mouth breathing is a very bad sign. So is the loss of appetite. Keep him warm.
Do you have a dog/cat/horse anything that you take to a vet? How about any of your friends with animals? If you know what to get you can always ask.
Ask for SMZ-TMP tablets, Sulfatrim, or preferably Baytril. Hopefully you may get some. Dosing we can answer on here.

[Pingu]

Thanks for replying, yes I have a vet for my horses, dog and cat. But I really do not believe they will just give me medication if I ask. Wouldn't I have to pretend it is for my other animals?

[Jackie in Tampa]

If you have a personal relationship with him, sometimes honesty can be forgiven..
otherwise LIE!
Tell them you have PIRANHA PET RAT!
or ask friends w/pets to ck their med cabinets..
your sq will die with out meds...and they go down quickly...so start calling around NOW, today...
YOU MUST HAVE some sort of AntiBiotics to save him...without meds...for sure, there is no hope...:shakehead
good luck sweetie...and thanks for helping a sq:Love_Icon
Yes warmth! and hydration....:grouphug

[mugzeezma]

Thanks for replying, yes I have a vet for my horses, dog and cat. But I really do not believe they will just give me medication if I ask. Wouldn't I have to pretend it is for my other animals?
If you have a good long standing relationship with that vet, no. I actually got some tabs when I took my dog in. He wasn't thrilled about it but he had no issue dispensing when I told him that I knew what to give and how much.
It can't hurt to try...
If you don't you may lose this baby. He needs meds today !

[Pingu]

I just switched vets, I barely know my new one, I have only had about 2 visitsmjs ...would penicillin work? I might have some of that.

[mugzeezma]

Thanks for replying, yes I have a vet for my horses, dog and cat. But I really do not believe they will just give me medication if I ask. Wouldn't I have to pretend it is for my other animals?
I hadn't been with mine long either. Can you make an appt for your dog to get a fecal or something?

[Pingu]

im not sure there is time...hes looking very bad now, sounds like hes choking

[Pingu]

I put Pingu in a shoe box with fleece and placed it in the washroom with steaming hot water running from the shower. The room is super steamy and it seems to have helped. The clicking and heavy breathing stopped. Should I continue or is it bad for him?

My mother is a nurse and I can get human antibiotics in about an hour, will they work?

[Pingu]

ok for now I have got one apo amoxi pill. 500mg

amocicillin trihydrate

in the washroom he is acting himself he is looking great, although I know that probably doesn't mean much. Is this medication ok for now?

[Pingu]

Ok I am worried he will get a chill in there so I put him back in his cage with his heating pad but he is clicking again.


he keeps getting up to walk and groom himself, is that a good sign? he returns to his corner every time after though

[Pingu]

Ok he has an appetite again..he was very enthusiastic about eatting. Now I am SUPER careful, haha I annoyed him like crazy only letting him have a drop every 2 seconds.

I would realllly appreciate it if someone could tell me the dose I need to give him before its too late!

thanks

Christina

[Jackie in Tampa]

is the clicking coming from HIS CHEST?
not his face/mouth...
he needs warm and hydration...slow is key..
yes the steam from a vapoizer/ foggy bathroom is good,makes breathing easier..
for someone to help with dosage ...all info is needed..
strength and name of ABiotic..
The shelf life for ABs is short..so thinking not good to use outdated...
Push fluids...if he acts congested after formula, dilute it...
keep hydration fluids warm..not cold anything..
we do not want to make his body keep itself warm, to much work...will deplete his energy faster...so you need to keep him warm and feed only warm stuff..
you can add a rice buddy to his bedding too...


Hydration fluid
1 quart warm water
1 teaspoon salt
3 tablespoons sugar
mix and store in fridge upto three days


:Love_Icon

[Pingu]

Thanks for replying, no the clicking seems to be comming from his head..when he opens his mouth to breath it clicks not when he breaths through his nose. It is very loud I do not think its coming from the chest. The antibiotic is fairly new, it is left over from when my doctor prescribed me for what I believe was a sinus infection.

I have been keeping him as warm as possible

Thanks for all the information.

For dosage do I need to have his weight?

[Pingu]

please someone tell me the dosage! it is painful watching him get worse and worse.

This is very urgent, his breathing is getting worse, I need dosages! I might just wing it soon


thank you

Christina

[Pingu]

He is now lying on his back. Anyone know about dosages?

[Pingu]

there is mucus comming out of his nose, he is getting weker. I am going to wing it I dont want to risk waiting any longer.

[mugzeezma]

there is mucus comming out of his nose, he is getting weker. I am going to wing it I dont want to risk waiting any longer.
I will Private Message my phone number.Call me and I will look up what we can give him. You have to hold the babies chest tight up to your ear.
Call me !!!

[Pingu]

I am not sure my parents will allow me to use their phone to call long distance, I am in Canda, is there anyway we can do it on here? I will be online pretty much all day.

Thanks for relpying by the way, I was panicing before. I ended up just puting a pinch of amoxicillin powder mixed in around 9 ml of formula. I hope it doesn't hurt him...he seems much better after eatting again at least.

[mugzeezma]

I will Private Message my phone number.Call me and I will look up what we can give him. You have to hold the babies chest tight up to your ear.
Call me !!!
Amoxicillin
15mg/kg BID
do you have a scale? weigh the baby

[Pingu]

thank you, I dont think I have a scale but I might be able to get a hold of one. I will go check.


Thanks alot :)

[mugzeezma]

thank you, I dont think I have a scale but I might be able to get a hold of one. I will go check.


Thanks alot :)
Let's say he weighs 150 grams
take the weight .15kg x 15mg/kg = 2.55 of amox

grind 500 mg tabs and suspend in 5ccs water

5/500mg

volume and suspension need to figured as

2.55mg x (5ml/500mg) = .0255 ccs a very very tiny amount.
or you could increase the water to 10 ccs (2 tsp) and give .05

or HALF OF A TENTH OF ONE CC

you already whomped him so now you can sit back...he may get diarhea from this but it may work

[Pingu]

Thank you very very very much, I really appreciate it :thankyou

My over dosing him today, could it kill him? or make it worse?

If he survives the night should I use the dose you gave me once a day?

[mugzeezma]

there is mucus comming out of his nose, he is getting weker. I am going to wing it I dont want to risk waiting any longer.
see how he does later tonight , if he gets diarrhea or not. Give him a regular dose later. sometimes you double the first dose anyway. I rather doubt it will kill him but it may do wonders on his pneumonia...I hope...I would also keep him well hydrated in between feedings. If you can hold him over steam or use a nebulizer with straight saline to cut that mucous.

[Pingu]

Alright thanks,

I have been steaming the washroom every half hour and letting him sit in there until his breathing settles. And it seems to help so I will continue that.

He is very calm right now, very sleepy. not sure if that is good or bad..

[mugzeezma]

Thank you very very very much, I really appreciate it :thankyou

My over dosing him today, could it kill him? or make it worse?

If he survives the night should I use the dose you gave me once a day?
No you need to give it twice a day after he eats same as you...with food :D
or every twelve hours
You can give him a dose later tonight as well if he doesn't get diarrhea.

[mugzeezma]

Alright thanks,

I have been steaming the washroom every half hour and letting him sit in there until his breathing settles. And it seems to help so I will continue that.

He is very calm right now, very sleepy. not sure if that is good or bad..
Neither good or bad...he's a very sick baby. He needs rest, quite, fluids, and a bit of nutrition. Try keep his container or cage blacked out with a towel. I wouldn't worry about how much he eats as long as you can get pedialyte or fluids into him.

[CritterMom]

Why don't you start to boost his tummy right now - the cillins can be hard on them. Make some of your rehydrating fluid watered down yogurt, heated to formula temperature. Getting some probiotics in there now might help bolter against diarrhea...

[mugzeezma]

Why don't you start to boost his tummy right now - the cillins can be hard on them. Make some of your rehydrating fluid watered down yogurt, heated to formula temperature. Getting some probiotics in there now might help bolter against diarrhea...
I like to use Kefir...It is similar to yogurt but highly drinkable. The Lifeway brand has 10 types of cultures and most yogurts contain 1-3.
It comes in a pint bottle in most of the larger chains. My kids like the raspberry flavor and so do my humans...oh yeah them too :D
BTW
I would keep an eye on his urine output. High doses can effect the kidneys. I really truly doubt that he will have more than nasty diarrhea though. I guess it depends on how big of a pinch he received.
OH1
Give for 7-10 days just to be on the safe side.
Let us know how he responds and how soon. Typical response is noticeable the next day or two. You MAY and I am only saying you MAY , see a difference later tonight.

[Pingu]

Thanks everyone for all your help! you have no idea how glad I am to have all of your support.

I have given Pingu some of Jackie in Tampa's hydration fluid and it seems to have revived him alot.

CritterMom, will any yougert do?

mugzeezma, where can i get some Kefir?

I have another question, Will it harm the squirrel to be fed so much? having feedings, and the antibiotics and also the hydration fluid? How do I prevent him from bloating? I imagain I will have to help him pee alot more often right?

[Pingu]

well goodish news is I found someone with a gram scale. I wont get it until tonight or tomorrow though. At least then I can measure his weight.

also, now he only clicks with every other breath

[mugzeezma]

Thanks everyone for all your help! you have no idea how glad I am to have all of your support.

I have given Pingu some of Jackie in Tampa's hydration fluid and it seems to have revived him alot.

CritterMom, will any yougert do?

mugzeezma, where can i get some Kefir?

I have another question, Will it harm the squirrel to be fed so much? having feedings, and the antibiotics and also the hydration fluid? How do I prevent him from bloating? I imagain I will have to help him pee alot more often right?
You probably won't get much in him at all right now!
Try not to force...
Just attempt a few ccs at a time in 6 feedings or so switching back and forth between 'lytes and formula. If you only get a couple of ccs of 'lytes in him in between you are doing fine. We're not talking a full 10 every time out!
Don't expect much today but do make sure he gets enough to pee every time you pick him up.

[CritterMom]

Any yogurt that has "live cultures" which most of them have, yes.

[Pingu]

haha suprisingly the problem isnt that he wont take the fluids, he wont stop! hahaha. there was only one time where he wanted to stop feeding ( this morning), I always have to take it away. He gets very feisty when he sees the syringe and starts running back and forth. I am mainly worried about him taking too much.

He seems content right now and his breathing has gotten slightly better. I hope he makes it!

I will go pick up some yougert today, anything else I might want to pick up that will help him?

[mugzeezma]

Thanks everyone for all your help! you have no idea how glad I am to have all of your support.

I have given Pingu some of Jackie in Tampa's hydration fluid and it seems to have revived him alot.

CritterMom, will any yougert do?

mugzeezma, where can i get some Kefir?

I have another question, Will it harm the squirrel to be fed so much? having feedings, and the antibiotics and also the hydration fluid? How do I prevent him from bloating? I imagain I will have to help him pee alot more often right?
The big chain stores may have it or a natural foods place will have Kefir. Me and mine drink the stuff so I just have it on hand.
Honestly anything you can do to support him now whether it be yogurt, BeneBac, or Kefir is a plus....and yes, peeing is something you need to keep an eye on for awhile now. If you keep up with all of this...and check on him @ 2 o'clock for a little extra fluid push...it sounds like he may do okay. The next few hours will tell

[Pingu]

ok I bought some yougert, I diluted it and fed Pingu some, he loved it!

He is peeing fine, his feces are softer than ussual but still balled and not runny. That doesn't count as diareah does it?

I weighed him on a gram scale he is 110 grams.

[CritterMom]

You can add yogurt to his formula, too. He needs to keep his strength up, and if he likes the yogurt he might like some formula mixed with the yogurt.

[Pingu]

He seems a bit better, good appetite and everything. But I noticed hes walking wierd, ever so often he drags his but on the ground and splays his legs, it is very wierd. What is he doing? He twitches sometimes, are these seizures?

[mugzeezma]

He seems a bit better, good appetite and everything. But I noticed hes walking wierd, ever so often he drags his but on the ground and splays his legs, it is very wierd. What is he doing? He twitches sometimes, are these seizures?
If he's dragging his bum he may be just rubbing his bum OR he may be feeling runny stuff coming out of his little rectum. Hard to say without seeing.
All Squirrels rub their butt(another thing to love) but add in the fact that your kid has no coordination or real strength yet it just looks goofy! Wait until he ties to hold something in his paws. They tip over every time if they don't get in just the right position. As far as the twitching, he's probably racing through the trees in his dreams. They dream like doggies do, even grunting and squeaking sometimes. Mine jump up like popcorn sometimes and look completely drunk for a moment :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

[mugzeezma]

BTW
the difference in the dosage is so small (.005) that you would hardly be able to measure it accurately.
Even with a .5cc syringe it's hard unless you draw a measured amount of water and then drew the ABs.

[mugzeezma]

How's the bot 2day Pingu???

[Pingu]

Pingu is doing well today, he is more energetic than ever before..he is climbing and jumping onto everything. He is also getting much better at balancing. He is starting to look like a squirrel! hahahaha his tail is getting fluffier and he can hold himself up and walk fine now.

He is peeing good, but he isnt pooing much which worries me.

His breathing is better, when he sleeps his mouth is closed sometimes, and he no longer heaves when suckling. (before it difficult to feed him because after each second he would stop to arch his back, throw his head down under his body and gasp for air)

I mixed the amoxicillin according to the calculations you gave me and have been giving them every 12ish hours, it seems to be working.

If it wasn't for the clicking and open mouth breathing he would look and act perfectly healthy.

I was wondering, do baby squirrels know if they are too hot? It is super humid here today, I turned off his heating pad because he was foaming at the mouth between feedings which I assume is dehydration. I increased his fluid intake and it seems to help, but twice I have found him foaming.

How hot is TOO hot for him?

thanks,

Christina

[mugzeezma]

Pingu is doing well today, he is more energetic than ever before..he is climbing and jumping onto everything. He is also getting much better at balancing. He is starting to look like a squirrel! hahahaha his tail is getting fluffier and he can hold himself up and walk fine now.

He is peeing good, but he isnt pooing much which worries me.

His breathing is better, when he sleeps his mouth is closed sometimes, and he no longer heaves when suckling. (before it difficult to feed him because after each second he would stop to arch his back, throw his head down under his body and gasp for air)

I mixed the amoxicillin according to the calculations you gave me and have been giving them every 12ish hours, it seems to be working.

If it wasn't for the clicking and open mouth breathing he would look and act perfectly healthy.

I was wondering, do baby squirrels know if they are too hot? It is super humid here today, I turned off his heating pad because he was foaming at the mouth between feedings which I assume is dehydration. I increased his fluid intake and it seems to help, but twice I have found him foaming.

How hot is TOO hot for him?

thanks,

Christina
They are pretty good at self regulation by this age. Does he have a space that is unheated he can move too? We always recommend putting 1/2 the cage/container on heat so the babies can move away when they get too warm. I would do this and leave the heat on since he is sick and is by himself.
The foaming may be from his pneumonia so keep SLOWLY and frequently pushing fluids. The heat dehydrates but he still needs it. Sick squirrels get cold.
If he hasn't been eating a lot he won't be pooping a lot. If he doesn't poop in the next day or so then he may need some help. Have you been stimulating him at all lately?

[Pingu]

sorry I have been so busy lately I haven't been able to reply.

Pingu was 100 percent better for a day or two, he had no breathing problems at all and was very active, he was doing great but seems to have regressed. He is clicking and open mouth breathing all over again.

I did not stop the medication in fear of the ilness returning (not sure if that was a good choice or not) but it didn't work in the end. Pingu is way to strong for his syringe, it doesn't matter what I do he sucks all 10 ml out at once. I even try holding the pushing part so he cant get any fluid, somehow he manages to suck against the pressure. As a result he aspirated twice in his first feeding today, without me even giving him a drop, he is sneaky and gets it fastttt. Immediatly I held him upsdie down (with trouble because he is super squirmy) and I held tissue to his nose to absorb the fluid. I was running late for work and couldnt ask for advice so I decided to mash up some apples and warm them, he liked it but only tried it once. Is it ok to give him fruit? I figure he can't inhale solids...

Another issue is that he has had diarrea since yesterday, it is very runny. Could it kill Pingu? and how do I stop it? I was hoping the apple would make it more solid but it didn't.

Also I am hoping to post a picture today of Pingu, I am wondering if his lip structure is normal, it seems to split very high, as it attaches above his gum, is that normal? Everytime he eats it ends up alllll over his face and stomach and its very difficult to keep it off his nose when its so close.

Anyway, thank you everyone for all your help! it really helps, pingu was perfect for a bit, I just have to get him back to that state :P

*fingers crossed*

- christina

[CritterMom]

Did I see 10ml syringe there? If that is correct, STOP USING IT. It is literally TEN TIMES the size you should be using. You need to feed with a 1cc syringe. You will have to refill it multiple times to feed. You can CONTROL it. You can deliver that formula drop by drop if you want - and if you have to in order to stop this from happening, you need to do it.

Stop with the apple - fruit, with fiber, will make his runs worse.

If there is actual diarrhea, he will need some fluids. You can give him some water in between his feedings. And what formula is he eating?

How long have you been giving amoxycillin? Can you get other meds? Cillens can cause tummy issues.

Is he clicking NOW?

[Pingu]

thanks for the reply,

Pingu is on Esbilac, and has been on amoxycillin for a week or less.
no he isn't clicking at the moment, just taking deeper breathes than normal at the moment.

where can I get a better syringe?

[CritterMom]

thanks for the reply,

Pingu is on Esbilac, and has been on amoxycillin for a week or less.
no he isn't clicking at the moment, just taking deeper breathes than normal at the moment.

where can I get a better syringe?

At the same place you can order a formula that won't give him diarrhea. Like as not, his tummy issues are being caused/made worse by the esbilac. It once was good for raising squirrels, then they changed how they manufacture it, and now it is NOT. Please go to either www.henryspets.com or www.foxvalleynutrition.com and order a bag of Fox Valley Day One Formula 32/40 and some 1cc syringes and nipples. You really need to do this. The esbilac is NOT GOOD.

In the meantime - Syringes: go to the drug store and speak to the pharmacist. Tell him you are hand raising a newborn kitten that was rejected by its mother and you need some 1cc syringes to do it. Usually they will give you a handful. When you get home, pull the plunger out and apply a little vegetable oil to the black rubber tip and it will operate more smoothly. These are TEMPORARY. They are disposable and cheaply made - the ones you will order have a nice, smooth action and you can control them.

Mix your esbilac in advance and let it sit in the refrigerator for several hours before feeding. I would add some yogurt to it - may help his tummy. Manufacturer recommends 8 hour resting time before feeding.

This may help. It will not make the esbilac an acceptable formula, and you need to get the Fox Valley as soon as you can.

Does Pingu have soft stool or diarrhea?

[mugzeezma]

soft stool can be form overfeeding. Amoxicillin is tough on gut flora that's why it's not preferred for herbivorous animals. Squirrels don't require that level of fermentation to digest however you do need to bolster the beneficial bacteria by adding live culture yogurt to his feedings 1-2 ccs should help. also I want you to get 1cc syringes ASAP!!! I don't even like to use the 3ccs but I have to at the wildlife center. too many babies have been lost by clumsy volunteers and 3cc syringes. It's just to hard to control.
The other thing you need to do is start an intro to solids by grinding rodent block and mixing it 1:1 with the formula. Add in some yogurt and some premade formula and make a med thin gruel. Place it a small bowl in his cage.
It's messy but he's ready. Change it morning and night.
You may also try adding a tiny bit of baby rice or oatmeal to his formula.

[Pingu]

Thanks for the replies, this morning Pingu once again seems completely normal, its wierd how fast his condition changes. There again is no clicking no open mouth breathing, and the poo has become more solid, although it is still more moist than ussual. I will try to get better syringes today, for now I have just been filling his syringe to o.1ml (or cc's) then feeding, and repeating this over and over. Yes, I have been adding yougert to his formula, he loves it.

are you sure he can drink from a bowl? I tried earlier and he kept dipping his nose in...I am worried he will inhale some.

I am going to pick up some more rodent block, my racoon ate the whole bag that I had. hahaha. I have some rice baby pablum, can squirrels eat that stuff?

today pingu made the funniest noise, I guess I approached his cage to quickly and he ran backwards flew his tail up and made high pitched sounds that sounded like a child laughing...it was a creepy sound. hahaha I didn't know they made those alerting sounds so young. He has also gained alot of weight in the past few days, he is now 135 grams. He grows so fastt!

[Pingu]

Heres the baby food ingredients, I can't find an online link.

It is called Heinz Oatmeal & Brown Rice Cereal with 35% infant formula

Banana and Apricot flavour

CEREAL INGREDIENTS: oat flour, apricot paste, brown rice flour, concentrated pear juice

INFANT FORMULA: dry skim milk, lactose, high oleic safflower oil ot high oleic sunflower oil, coconut oil, soy oil, whey protein concetrate

[mugzeezma]

Thanks for the replies, this morning Pingu once again seems completely normal, its wierd how fast his condition changes. There again is no clicking no open mouth breathing, and the poo has become more solid, although it is still more moist than ussual. I will try to get better syringes today, for now I have just been filling his syringe to o.1ml (or cc's) then feeding, and repeating this over and over. Yes, I have been adding yougert to his formula, he loves it.

are you sure he can drink from a bowl? I tried earlier and he kept dipping his nose in...I am worried he will inhale some.

I am going to pick up some more rodent block, my racoon ate the whole bag that I had. hahaha. I have some rice baby pablum, can squirrels eat that stuff?

today pingu made the funniest noise, I guess I approached his cage to quickly and he ran backwards flew his tail up and made high pitched sounds that sounded like a child laughing...it was a creepy sound. hahaha I didn't know they made those alerting sounds so young. He has also gained alot of weight in the past few days, he is now 135 grams. He grows so fastt!
I call that the monkey cackle...really loud chatter they do when upset.
Yes, he can lap it up from a bowl and yes he will shove his face in there and sneeze it everywhere until he figures it out in a day or so. He won't aspirate on it though, just gets it in the nose. Do the recipe I gave you. Works like a charm and is thicker than straight formula.
A TOUCH of baby rice is a perfect thickener and fiber additive for loose stools, don't do the oatmeal/banana/formula baby food:nono ...wrong stuff...too much human baby formula in it...don't cause more problems with that! Better to use a straight up fruit nothing added.

[island rehabber]

I do hope the raccoon does not have access to little Pingu. A raccoon will kill and eat a baby squirrel if it feels like it.

I will echo what others have said before:

1. FOX VALLEY is the formula

2. 1cc syringe and NO LARGER is the way to feed him.

[mugzeezma]

I do hope the raccoon does not have access to little Pingu. A raccoon will kill and eat a baby squirrel if it feels like it.

I will echo what others have said before:

1. FOX VALLEY is the formula

2. 1cc syringe and NO LARGER is the way to feed him.

YES YES YES
I don't remember if we told you this
Fox Valley Nutrition get the 20/50
http://foxvalleynutrition.com/main/home.asp
Nick is great to work with you can get 1cc syringes from him too but they are not the nice O'ring type.

[CritterMom]

YES YES YES
I don't remember if we told you this
Fox Valley Nutrition get the 20/50
http://foxvalleynutrition.com/main/home.asp
Nick is great to work with you can get 1cc syringes from him too but they are not the nice O'ring type.


Not to argue and I know Nick recommends it but everyone on here having FV issues is using the 20/50. I think they need the additional protein, especially when they are underweight and not thriving due to the esbilac. I think that using the 32/40 throughout until weaning is the way to go.

I would imagine the 20/50 is okay if you started them on the 32/40 from the beginning and they were thriving and healthy, but these babies that are being transitioned from all other kinds of formulas usually aren't in tip top shape.

[Pingu]

thanks again for the replies, alright I wont feed the human stuff, I just wanted to check and see if I could.

Dont worry the raccoon has moved outside, he used to live indoors with free range to the outdoors, and gradually he decided to stay out there, so he wont ever get access to the squirrel.

do I have to buy fox valley online? I don't have credit cards or anything to do that.

[CritterMom]

thanks again for the replies, alright I wont feed the human stuff, I just wanted to check and see if I could.

Dont worry the raccoon has moved outside, he used to live indoors with free range to the outdoors, and gradually he decided to stay out there, so he wont ever get access to the squirrel.

do I have to buy fox valley online? I don't have credit cards or anything to do that.


You do need to buy online but both Nick at www.foxvalleynutrition.com and Leigh at www.Henryspets.com will work with you with a check. You can call either one of them and explain your situation. Tiy can also buy the 1cc syringes you need from them.

[Pingu]

Sorry I have been super busy and unable to reply. I have followed all advice given, Pingu was doing perfect. He has been off the amoxicillin for a few days now. He is really grown up and he has been exploring a lot more and seemed very interested in solid food, along with the oats I have mixed with his formula he has been trying to nibble at anything he sees me eat. So I gave him some apple yesterday to try but it turns out that was a baddddd idea. He has had severe diarrhea since. its very runny and hes got it everywhere! he is also standing funny, I guess because its leaving mess all over his bum. How dangerous is diarrhea? I have been giving him lots of fluids and given him nothing but his formula and hydration fluid. What can I give him to make his feces more solid? I stopped with the oats in case, but will they make it worse or better?

Also has anyone ever had any luck litter training squirrels? Pingu lives in a 5 story "cat/ferret" house, he is not enclosed. He has full run of the room and his massive carpet apartment. His heating pad and everything is still included. Basically the issue is he is starting to venture from his home sometimes and he poops everywhere...I do not believe in caging animals (dont worry there is nothing he can harm himself with in the room, it is basically empty except my bed and his house) is there any chance he will ever learn or choose to "do his business" in one spot? The weather here in Canada is getting cold QUICK and I don't really want to release him mid winter, but I want to be able to manage the poo while he lives here.

thanks

- Christina

[Pingu]

I forgot to mention the poop is mustard colored, is that from over feeding?

[mugzeezma]

Sorry I have been super busy and unable to reply. I have followed all advice given, Pingu was doing perfect. He has been off the amoxicillin for a few days now. He is really grown up and he has been exploring a lot more and seemed very interested in solid food, along with the oats I have mixed with his formula he has been trying to nibble at anything he sees me eat. So I gave him some apple yesterday to try but it turns out that was a baddddd idea. He has had severe diarrhea since. its very runny and hes got it everywhere! he is also standing funny, I guess because its leaving mess all over his bum. How dangerous is diarrhea? I have been giving him lots of fluids and given him nothing but his formula. What can I give him to make his feces more solid? I stopped with the oats in case, but will they make it worse or better?

Also has anyone ever had any luck litter training squirrels? Pingu lives in a 5 story "cat/ferret" house, he is not enclosed. He has full run of the room and his massive carpet apartment. His heating pad and everything is still included. Basically the issue is he is starting to venture from his home sometimes and he poops everywhere...I do not believe in caging animals (dont worry there is nothing he can harm himself with in the room, it is basically empty except my bed and his house) is there any chance he will ever learn or choose to "do his business" in one spot? The weather here in Canada is getting cold QUICK and I don't really want to release him mid winter, but I want to be able to manage the poo while he lives here.

thanks

- Christina
:wahoo
Glad to hear the good news!!!
Diarrhea won't kill him but like us, it doesn't feel good. The apple shouldn't have made that much impact.:thinking Maybe he ate too much? It'll pass. Try Cheerios and soaked rat block with formula, and frozen peas or beans instead.
Don't do the fruit just yet. Like human baby you don't want to introduce the sweet stuff to early or you will wreck their palate
Some people have had luck...I'm not one of them. Mugzi pooped every where and peed mostly on my couch which I covered with towels. The only consolation is that he was worth every bit and more. My babies are being trained to go on paper napkins ... we'll see how THAT works!!!!

[Kristal]

Poop seems to range from dark mustard to dark sienna in colour. I think it is when it is pale and whitish or beige that you cut back. I did get the 20/50 FV formula. They are growing on it. Poops are coming out firm and dense. Never any digestive upset, and all their tails are starting to fluff up, especially Rifa's whose tail is dense with fur. I can't even feel her tail under all her fur. I think that is what is supposed to be happening, no? So FV 20/50 seems to be working for me.

[mugzeezma]

Sorry I have been super busy and unable to reply. I have followed all advice given, Pingu was doing perfect. He has been off the amoxicillin for a few days now. He is really grown up and he has been exploring a lot more and seemed very interested in solid food, along with the oats I have mixed with his formula he has been trying to nibble at anything he sees me eat. So I gave him some apple yesterday to try but it turns out that was a baddddd idea. He has had severe diarrhea since. its very runny and hes got it everywhere! he is also standing funny, I guess because its leaving mess all over his bum. How dangerous is diarrhea? I have been giving him lots of fluids and given him nothing but his formula and hydration fluid. What can I give him to make his feces more solid? I stopped with the oats in case, but will they make it worse or better?

Also has anyone ever had any luck litter training squirrels? Pingu lives in a 5 story "cat/ferret" house, he is not enclosed. He has full run of the room and his massive carpet apartment. His heating pad and everything is still included. Basically the issue is he is starting to venture from his home sometimes and he poops everywhere...I do not believe in caging animals (dont worry there is nothing he can harm himself with in the room, it is basically empty except my bed and his house) is there any chance he will ever learn or choose to "do his business" in one spot? The weather here in Canada is getting cold QUICK and I don't really want to release him mid winter, but I want to be able to manage the poo while he lives here.

thanks

- Christina
I had 20/50 ran out and reordered the 32/40 for the new kids. Talked to Nick. They are doing much better on it. I had better weight gain. Fat is easy to add. Protein not.
BTW
He will find spots that he prefers to mark. Place paper towels or what have you there. Don't make it too weird or he'll go elsewhere.

[Kristal]

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_qi4Ev59-5jE/TItJ3LlAMDI/AAAAAAAAAQg/qWZOVLcsid4/s640/DSCF4681.JPG

That is Squeaky last night. He seems to be beefing up, muscle wise, too.


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_qi4Ev59-5jE/TIlHNannp4I/AAAAAAAAAP4/9PR2Drc880A/s512/DSCF4654.JPG

And there is Rifa a couple of days ago.

Squeaky is about 5.5 weeks old and Rifa is 6.5, give or take. The two small boys are shaping up better, too. So I think that is about how they should look, no? Now I am a bit worried that they are not getting enough protein. :/

[Pingu]

Thanks for replying, I have given him some cheerios and peas and he seems to like them. I have been helping him poo and pee only in the litter box all this time, but yesterday he started "going" on his own and he isn't interested in running to the box to do so. haha Then again with the diarrhea its hard to tell if he is even choosing to poo or if it is involuntary.

[Kristal]

Also has anyone ever had any luck litter training squirrels? Pingu lives in a 5 story "cat/ferret" house, he is not enclosed. He has full run of the room and his massive carpet apartment. His heating pad and everything is still included. Basically the issue is he is starting to venture from his home sometimes and he poops everywhere...I do not believe in caging animals (dont worry there is nothing he can harm himself with in the room, it is basically empty except my bed and his house) is there any chance he will ever learn or choose to "do his business" in one spot? The weather here in Canada is getting cold QUICK and I don't really want to release him mid winter, but I want to be able to manage the poo while he lives here.

thanks

- Christina

I was planning to put them in a big cage then move the cage outside when they are grown. I will keep feeding them over the winter, but I doubt they would be happy indoors... and neither would, with the four of them. They would ruin my books, my computer... uggh. They are going to have to get used to the realities of winter, anyway :/

[Pingu]

haha Rifa and squeaky are adorable! Depends on how harsh your winters are I guess. Although I'm sure squirrels aren't too bothered by snow, it is supposed to be a very extreme winter this year and I don't want my Pingu to struggle, I don't mind him ruining my stuff, I have extra rooms I can convert for him if I have to for the winter.

[Kristal]

Where in Canada are you? Here it is still warm, but yes, starting to cool off early:

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/caqc0363

[Pingu]

I am in Ontario, its only a couple degrees colder than where you are from the looks of the forecast. I can't take the cold though, I'm already layering up and wearing a coat. hahaha

[Pingu]

How old do you think Pingu is? I am going to post some pictures from LAST week

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/chickensNhorses/IMG_6516.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/chickensNhorses/IMG_6475.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/chickensNhorses/IMG_6528.jpg

he has gained more weight and has become more fluffy since these photos were taken.
and here is his home. It is a bit ripped up in these pictures, I have mended everything since. The basket is his heating pad, and that blue bin is a litter box.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/chickensNhorses/IMG_6532.jpg

[Kristal]

Now that is a handsome looking boy :) I am guessing 7 - 8 weeks old.

[mugzeezma]

Now that is a handsome looking boy :) I am guessing 7 - 8 weeks old.

I was thinking 7 even...anywhere between 6-8 weeks.
Gorgeous coat!!!
A real heartbreaker!

[mudmaiden]

wow!!..Hes beautiful....I would LOVE to rehab a black squirrel...have never had one:rotfl

[Pingu]

Thanks :)

yea I like the black coat best, although they are extremely over populated where I live, more so than the actual greys, nearly every where you look you will see at least 3. It is not uncommon to see like 8 of them on one lot. hahaha

Reds are rarer here, but suprisingly I have had like 8 of them. Somehow this is my first Eastern Grey squirrel.

[Kristal]

Yea, they seem to dominate in parts of Ontario, especially Toronto. We have a few pretty blondes and one golden one with blue eyes in parc lafontaine, but I have never seen a black grey here.

[Pingu]

Yea I am in Toronto, they are EVERYWHERE. I would say 80 percent are black, 10 percent are pure grey with white bellies, 5 percent are like greyish brownish all over and the last 5 percent are reds.

I have never seen blondes or goldens, sounds prettyyy

[Kristal]

The light golden one must have something like leukism, which is a mutation causing low melanin production. The blondes are probably his offspring. Greys come in a lot of colours, but here they are mostly grey. I think they are still pretty anyway :)

[Pingu]

Pingu's diarrhea is no better today, he has constantly got like a blob of diarrhea coming out of his bum. It Is constant and getting all over his body. Is that normal diarrhea? Seems pretty extreme to me. He is also not wanting to eat, or wanting to move much. Could this me some other sickness? Doesn't look like over eating to me anymore, he hasn't really had anything to eat much yesterday and today, mainly just fluids.

[mugzeezma]

Pingu's diarrhea is no better today, he has constantly got like a blob of diarrhea coming out of his bum. It Is constant and getting all over his body. Is that normal diarrhea? Seems pretty extreme to me. He is also not wanting to eat, or wanting to move much. Could this me some other sickness? Doesn't look like over eating to me anymore, he hasn't really had anything to eat much yesterday and today, mainly just fluids.
To rule out the cause
Drop back to pedialyte for a couple of feedings and then slowly reintroduce the FV. Be sure to add the probiotics...oral 'cillins are VERY hard on gut flora.
bath in baby shampoo
I put enough water in a shallow pan and the lower the baby in . gently swab all the material off and protect ear and eyes

[island rehabber]

Do you have Kaopectate or a similar over-the-counter remedy up there? Use a drop or two and syringe it ONCE into Pingu's mouth....this will stop the diarrhea temporarily so that he does not become severely dehydrated. He should be eating solid foods at this point, so try some walnut pieces to firm up his stool. If these things dont help he may have a parasite issue, and that will require meds.

[Pingu]

pedialyte is an over the counter drug to stop diarrhea right? Will any diarrhea med do? I have no Kaopectate ..

[Pingu]

I just remembered I have "DriTail - Treatment for Diarrhea (wet tail)" for hamsters, gerbils, mice, rats and guinea pigs. I will give Pingu some of that.

[island rehabber]

No, Pedialyte is a liquid for HYDRATION, and can be given to both human infants and animal babies. Kaopectate is the medicine to stop diarrhea. There are probably identical products at your pharmacies in Canada under different brand names...I would check as soon as you can. Constant diarrhea will dehydrate and debilitate a squirrel faster than anything, and can be fatal.

[mugzeezma]

No, Pedialyte is a liquid for HYDRATION, and can be given to both human infants and animal babies. Kaopectate is the medicine to stop diarrhea. There are probably identical products at your pharmacies in Canada under different brand names...I would check as soon as you can. Constant diarrhea will dehydrate and debilitate a squirrel faster than anything, and can be fatal. 1 tsp salt (teaspoon)

Homemade 'Pedialyte' recipe replaces electrolytes.

3 Tbsp sugar (tablespoon)
1 quart warm water
Mix all ingredients in warm water. Store in refrigerator.

[Pingu]

Thank you again, Pingu seems to be getting better but still no solid poop. There are now relatively formed but very moist. He isn't acting sick in any way though, I hope it will just fade away over a few days while I continue with the dritail, hydration fluid and yogurt.