Want help obtaining rehab license/permit in Virginia.

[sadiesmom]

I'm new here and not entirely sure where I should post this. I'm from Virginia, where keeping most wildlife is illegal without the proper permits or licenses. I'm interested in finding a rehabber close to me so that I might volunteer under them and eventually get my own license.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Sadiesmom I just posted a link on your first question.:Welcome
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23568#post23568post23568

[sadiesmom]

I appreciate the link, however I've already tried contacting a few of those people before. I think I might try again, though. Won't hurt anything!

:thankyou

Other information/resources/contacts are still appreciated. I'm adamant on this!

[Gabe]

I have a friend that is a rehabber in Virginia, it is very difficult to find rehabbers there. She sometimes has to travel two hours to meet a rehabber half way with an animal. What are their requirements to get your license? Do you have to work with someone or just take the test. If you were able to take the test, you could mentor online with someone. People on the squirrel board give good advice.

[sadiesmom]

As I understand it, you have to volunteer under someone who is already licensed for two years. After that, a Virginia state game warden must come and inspect the proposed accomodations for housing the animals under your care. I think that in order to continue a valid license, a rehabber must take so many credit hours of an educational wildlife class per year.

I wish it was just as easy as taking a test and paying for the license. Actually, I'm trying to figure out if that can be done if someone is planning on being supervised by a game warden. That would cut out a two year waiting period.

[Gabe]

Wow, sounds like they really want their rehabbers well trained in Virgina. Maybe that's why there are so few and far between. Is there someone near you to train with? I wish you luck, don't give up the pursuit, rehabbers are truly needed everywhere.

[sadiesmom]

I'm still searching for someone to train with. I haven't had much luck as of yet, so I'm hoping there may be someone on this board who has contact information for a rehabber in this area who isn't listed online.

I wouldn't mind driving further to train with one if I didn't work so late, but my schedule sometimes leaves me with less than four hours of free time before it's bedtime. That's only sometimes, though. Because of this, it would be much more convenient to find someone who happens to be close.

Thanks.

[sadiesmom]

From the Wildlife Rescue League (http://www.wildliferescueleague.org/rehab.html) website:


In Virginia, most wildlife rehabilitators work out of their own homes. They must be licensed by the Commonwealth of Virginia to rehabilitate mammals and/or birds and additionally by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service to rehabilitate birds. Rehabilitators are not supported by public funding and may not charge for their services.

In order to become a rehabilitator, you must meet three requirements:

1) After filing an application for a permit, have a home inspection of your caging and facilities and a screening interview by the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. The application and inspection may be arranged by calling VDGIF.

2) Serve a two-year apprenticeship with an experienced sponsor rehabilitator who can teach you the specific species you are interested in rehabilitating. During this two year period you may rehabilitate healthy orphaned animals in your own home.

3) Each year that you have a permit, you must have six hours of continuing education in wildlife rehabilitation or related topics. (This education is generally available locally through the Wildlife Rescue League, the Wildlife Center of Virginia, and other sources.)

In addition, if you are interested in working with mammals at higher risk for rabies, you are required to have rabies pre-exposure shots.

Only problem is finding someone who is already licensed to train with. :hissyfit

[Gabe]

Wow, that does sound tough. I wonder if you could get around #2 by rehabbing in your own home and having someone mentor you over the phone?

[sadiesmom]

I'd actually like to check about that. With all the resources out there on the internet, and forums with people like this, I'd not be without guidance and information. There's bound to be a way to get around having to train with someone if there is no one to train with!

[Mrs. Jack]

I've always had permission to do so from a local game warden due to lack of other rehabbers and resources. There's bound to be a way to get around having to train with someone if there is no one to train with!

Have you talked to this game warden to see what they say? Perhaps with your experience, and if you are under the 'jurisdiction' of a game warden, something can be worked out?

[island rehabber]

Wow, that does sound tough. I wonder if you could get around #2 by rehabbing in your own home and having someone mentor you over the phone?

...and over the internet. You've got plenty of us here.... :grouphug

[Gabe]

That sounds good.
I didn't know they let you keep non-releaseables in Virginia, I suppose that is a good way for them to still have some control.

[DubShack]

While I'm not a rehabber, nor do I live in Virginia, I guess you could say I am an expert on my own opinion. I work at a Civil Engineering firm in Washington, where we have pretty similar laws it sounds like. We deal with environmental agencies all the time, and while you never want to pull any punches with them, there are just some things you don't want to say to them. And I don't want you to take this as me criticizing or anything like that, I mean it really sounds like you have a shortage of rehabbers over there and really need more. It genuinly sounds like you care for these animals and deserve the chance to do it. All I want to say is, I would not send this letter. While I've known a couple of game wardens and they both cared a great deal about animal life, the people sitting in the office are sometimes a different story. I mean basically what you are doing is sending a letter to a government agency, one that is the ONLY avenue of you getting a legal license. I mean you hear about the differing opinions between rehabbers on the wellbeing of their animals every now and then, thats one thing. These guys have the power, they have the keys to the cabinet and most of them are arrogant enough to sit on high and dangle hope in front of you as much as they want. That said, these uncaring, arrogant ******** are going to look at your heartfelt, caring letter and determine two things.
1) You've broken the law before, and while you're sorry, they are probably wondering who was responsible for you while you were breaking the law
2) You really want to legally become a rehabber, but you really don't have the time or resources to put into it right now, nor a place to properly house a squirrel, but while you're waiting for the time to be right could you please have a squirrel that you don't have to give back?

Look, I know that sounds really harsh, but I know government and I know that is how they are going to look at that letter. I REALLY don't want you to send it, because you really seem like you want to take this seriously and do it right, and I'm almost certain that this letter will kill any chance you have of doing it.

I would consider doing this instead. Call up (804) 367-1000, the Virginia department of Game and Inland Fisheries, and as genuinly as possible say "Hi, look I am really interested in becoming a rehabber of wild squirrels. I have had some experience under the supervision of a game warden, but I'm having difficulty locating a rehabber near to where I live that can assist me. Is there anything you can tell me that might help me meet this requirement, such as mentoring with a rehabber online?"

That more than likely will get you the answer you need. If it doesn't, I would follow the "chain of command." (everyone in government answers to someone, start at the bottom and work your way up- trust me, eventually someone will give you the right answer)

This may sound frustrating, especially when you encounter someone who is so willfully arrogant or utterly incompetant that you just can't get an answer. Just know that when it comes to government, there are litterally dozens of avenues of communication, and unless you're the department of homeland security you're gonna spend some time trying to find someone who will talk to you. Here in Spokane, I can call up the department of engineering services and ask for Doug, the head of that department, and the operator won't have a clue who I'm talking about. The only way I get plans from the city is if I physically show up in person, ignore the clerks (who technically are supposed to retrieve this stuff for us, but pull up books from ages ago wondering why our accounts aren't up to date) and go directly to Steve, the only guy who knows exactly what I want.

Thats another thing too, if this Department of Game and Inland Fisheries is a fair ways away from you, I'd consider it worthwile to take a little road trip and show up in person. Go up to the front desk, ignore the irate woman on the telephone with the black coffee stains around her eyes and go directly to the gray haired, 60 year old woman with the kind hearted expression on her face. If she's not working, come back the next day. But get HER. Say "listen, I came a ways away, I'm from here and I really want to be a rehabber, but I can't find anyone in my area who can tutor me. Is there any way you guys could point me in any kind of direction that might help me out in this?"

Then they will be impressed, they'll be like "wow, she drove a long way and clearly really wants to do this." Don't mention that you did it illegally as a kid, but definately mention that you did it under the game warden. They may, in person, be able to either make an exception or point you in a direction that gets you closer to your goal.

Little side story, several months ago my wife and I were a step away from declaring bankruptcy. My wife was unemployed, and I barely made enough to support us. She had gotten a job offer as a bail bondsman, but she had to take this really hard test in order to become a licensed agent. Her friend had taken the test 16 times and failed it every time. They had a study guide from the bail bonds company, but she said like two questions on the test referred to information they had given. I asked what government agency was responsible for issuing the test. They said it came from the office of the Insurance Commissioner, and I called up the office and said "Look, my wife is trying to take this incredibly hard test called the Surety exam. I understand that by law Washington state is not allowed to maintain a study guide, nor recommend an educational program for it, but what can you tell me that would help point her in the right direction?" They called me back the next day and told me the test was less about bail bonds and more about property casualty insurance, and that if she studied that she'd pass. She found a study guide on that online and a day later, she passed the test. She felt amazing, and got the job, and now she makes way more than I do, but at least we are on our way to getting out of debt. :)

My point is, it's all about the approach. You kind of have the right idea in that throwing yourself to their mercy will do it, but don't throw yourself to the wolves either.

[muffinsquirrel]

:goodpost Fantastic answer, DubShack! Most people in any position of authority are slow to admit that there is anything that they don't know and even slower to refer you to someone who might be able to help you more than they can, or will. They are going to protect their job at any cost, and one of the best ways to do this is by showing their boss,(who probably doesn't know, either), that they are really 'on the ball' and saving the world from being over-run by helpful people with good, logical ideas! Keep going as high in the chain of command as you possibly can, and don't put anything in writing unless you absolutely have to, especially anything that could, in any shape, form or fashion, be twisted around and used against you. Remember that you are going to be dealing with people that demand a 'yes or no' answer - everything is black or white - there are no shades of gray. Always keep in mind the old joke where the lawyer asked the man on the witness stand "Yes or no, sir - have you stopped beating your wife?" No matter what he answers, even if he never beat his wife, he's sunk!

I hope you can get your permit to rehab under a mentor - we need more caring people like you out there. Just remember, there are people out there just hoping for you to give them a little snip of thread so they can weave a rope to hang you.

All that being said, there ARE some good people out there that will bend over backwards to help you. Just keep looking until you find one. And remember - ask everyone.....trust no one.

muffinsquirrel, who has dealt with the government too long to believe otherwise

[island rehabber]

Sadiesmom, DubShack makes a really, really, good argument for NOT sending that letter. I agree with him.....I think you are "tipping your hand" by sending it, and if you don't get any positive results, now the gov't knows that you are, well, rehabbing illegally. Sometimes we benevolent, tree-hugger types think that all people are basically good and want to help us. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN. As DubShack says, people in civil service often want to just cover their behinds and wouldn't think of going out on a limb for anyone. (My dear NRBF spent 34 yrs as a civil engineer for the City of New York....he's told me this a thousand times.) Be careful. The approaches DubShack suggested are very good....don't reveal your name or address while asking the questions. Remember the 10 scariest words in the English language: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you." :)

[Mrs. Jack]

Sadiesmom, I did just want to add, don't get discouraged. It sounds a very complicated and long road you may be on, but with the desire and heart you have, you'll succeed. The critters do need you.

[Critter_Queen]

I wish I had read this thread sooner. Your regulations in Virginia are much like ours in Iowa... I'm willing to bet that you can be an apprentice by phone/email. I do most of my talking with my mentor over the email just because it's easier sometimes and then I can print off her answers so I can follow them more closely.

I meet with my mentor about once or twice a month at most, and sometimes less than that even in the winter months. (and I winter squirrels so...)

It sounds like what you need is a licensed rehabber that is willing to take on your questions and help you get all your stuff set up and then be available for questions/emergencies on an as-needed basis.

Good luck! Keep trying. The first rehabber I asked about becoming a rehabber told me she didn't know anyone that would want to sponsor an apprentice...then I got a hold of someone who was MORE THAN HAPPY to train new people because there are far too many critters for just the few rehabbers available... You would think that most rehabbers would welcome the help even if it meant having to answer a lot of questions. BUT, I suppose it would depend on the apprentice, too. Some folks aren't as quick on the uptake as others, and licensed rehabbers are already swamped and probably worry that taking on an apprentice will only add to their workload with the wildlife.

It's a tough spot to be sure, but don't give up. If you want to become a rehabber, keep at it. Keep calling.

And I would not admit that you rehab illegally to anyone. Be very careful how you explain any experience you've already had. (not to worry so much about other rehabbers, but the DNR, the public, etc shouldn't be told in my opinion)

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[sadiesmom]

Wow, I'm speechless.

Initially I did want to do the whole rehab thing, but I realized I wouldn't have time at this point in my life with the job I'm working.

I really want to thank you all for giving me such good direction on this issue. Unfortunately, I've already sent the letter. I wish I'd had this feedback sooner, as I sent the letter earlier last night. However, even if I'm told no, I'm not going to stop pursuing this. I'll be on the answering machine of every government official in the state if I have to.

I'll let you guys in on a little secret. The reason I'm fighting so hard, and for a squirrel in particular, is because I already have one as a member of my family.

This past February, my uncle's german shorthaired pointer Max came bounding out of the woods with what my uncle thought was a rat. After he took it away from Max, he realized it was a baby squirrel. My home town is in the middle of a forest. There was no way he could have found the nest she came from. So my uncle called me.

With permission to do so from a local game warden who happens to be a friend of the family, I've taken in deer, opossum, skunks, rabbits, raccoons, chipmunks, crows, and any other critter who happened to need me. I'm known for doing this, so naturally I took in this baby.

I did try to contact the only rehabber within a two hours' drive. I never got a response, so I spent every waking minute online trying to find out how to raise a baby gray squirrel.

From pictures, I guessed that she was barely two weeks old. Still pinkish and squirmy and naked. She absolutely stole my heart the first time I laid eyes on her, but the moment she latched onto my finger with those little hands... I knew I was hers.

She was dehydrated, and being that it was the weekend and the nearest Wal-Mart was nearly an hour away, I found a rehydrating formula online and properly fed that to her religiously every hour and a half, day and night.

She slept with a Bambi baby blanket with a heating pad under half of her plastic tub so that she could cool down if she needed.

Monday morning I was out buying puppy formula and proper nipples.

I named her Sadie once I looked up how to tell the gender of a squirrel, and from then on, Sadie was the light of everyone's lives.

We honestly didn't expect her to make it, so we cherished every day with her. So when she began growing and devloping, we were already too attached to ever think about letting her go. She was our doll baby.

We filmed her first wobbly steps after her eyes opened. I still laugh every time I watch it. She crawled around like she was going to conquor the world, but after a few determined steps she just tuckerd herself out and ended up sprawled out on her stomach absolutely pooped.

Our chihuahua sincerely believed that Sadie was her own baby, and the only time I could part the two was when I had to take Sadie to work with me. I worked as a secretary at an off-campus branch of a community college, and every day I'd pack Sadie's "diaper bag" and tote her to work. Everyone there loved her.

I devoted myself to that squirrel, and in my eyes she is my baby. I fed her, I bathed her, I wiped that precious behind. She's grown up to be quite a lovely little lady, and I can't imagine my life without her. She even eats better than we do. And has her own bedroom!

However, she isn't here with me in ***** Because I'm scared of being caught within city limits, I have had to live without my doll since August. She lives with my parents back in ****
I've racked my brain trying to figure out how I can bring her up here with me legally, and having a permit to be able to keep wild things is the only way I can see to do it. But I can't wait two years. Especially if I can't find anyone to train with.

I wish Sadie could have been wild. I know it would have been best for her to run the treetops and someday raise a family of her own. But things didn't work out that way, and I happen to believe it's because she was meant to be in my life. Or that I was meant to be in hers.

She is unreleasable now. Not that she has health issues or anything, but she absolutely has no fear of anyone or anything. She loves to chew plastic (which is why my mom's brand new $700 printer has seven buttons missing), so I know the first thing she'd do is go chew up a power line or something. Squirrel hunting is a big thing back where I'm from, whether it's in season or not. I can't stand to think about what would happen to her.

I wouldn't have a problem at all with keeping her illegally if I planned on living in *****

I'd pay every last dime I have to my name if it meant I could buy her off from the government. How can I prove that I'm the best thing for her without letting them know I actually already own a squirrel?

I sincerely do care about animals, and eventually I will get a rehab permit for all the right reasons. I honestly believe that wildlife belongs in the wild, but if you'll take a look at my signature, you'll see why I'm fighting so hard for this one to keep. I've tamed her. Therefore, I'm responsible for her.

I wish it was as easy as packing up and moving to a state where it was legal.

So yeah, I probably just made myself a hole to fall in by sending that letter. But for Sadie's sake, I'll climb out and keep on fighting. There's got to be a way.

[sadiesmom]

2) You really want to legally become a rehabber, but you really don't have the time or resources to put into it right now, nor a place to properly house a squirrel, but while you're waiting for the time to be right could you please have a squirrel that you don't have to give back

I DO have the time and resources to put into and house A squirrel. Just not several animals. Granted, that's how they're probably going to see it.

[DubShack]

No hun, you haven't killed yourself. If you'd have said "I all ready have a squirrel," then yes, you'd probably be in trouble. Honestly, I'd say its about an 80/20 bet they're going to look at that letter and throw it in the trash.

I'll post a more detailed response later because I'm at work right now, but I just seen you're obviously feeling bad about this and I thought I'd perk in real quick. :)

[sadiesmom]

I appreciate that. That you care enough to put in a few comforting words, that is. I really am kind of down right now. I wish I'd have waited to read responses on this board before I sent the letter. :(

I just... I really love Sadie. She's more than a pet. She always was. She's a member of my family. I'll do anything for her.

[island rehabber]

I appreciate that. That you care enough to put in a few comforting words, that is. I really am kind of down right now. I wish I'd have waited to read responses on this board before I sent the letter. :(

I just... I really love Sadie. She's more than a pet. She always was. She's a member of my family. I'll do anything for her.

Sadiesmom, I am in complete empathy with you because this is exactly how I became a rehabber....found Squirli, raised him (sort of, not the right way all the time), released him, then he came back to me with a broken leg! That's when I found out I wasn't supposed to have him, when no vet would treat him and I was frantic on New Year's Day in 2003....I finally reached the rehabber who would become my friend and mentor and she took him to her vet. I was told I could never see him again.....but I persisted and the vet gave him back, and talked me into becoming a rehabber. I'll never forget the sick feeling in my stomach when they told me I couldn't have my beloved little squirrel back...ever! So, I really do understand you. What made it easier for me is that New York's requirements for a rehab license are much less strict than yours: we don't have to really 'apprentice' with a rehabber, just pass a test and produce three recommendation letters. I wish you every bit of luck in the world at charming those DNR-type folks into letting you get a license via telephone or internet contact with rehabbers. :peace

[sadiesmom]

Just hearing other peoples' stories is a big help when it comes to getting through this. I need to know that there are others out there like me. I need to know that even though it's technically against the law, there are people out there who support what I'm trying to do for the life of one squirrel, and eventually for the lives of others.

I know what I'm doing is right-- maybe not in the eyes of the government, but it's right in my heart.

[DubShack]

Ok, I'm home now. :)

The last thing I want to do is hurt your feelings or discourage you from doing this. I really want to do this too, but I'm kind of in a similar situation. I don't actually have a squirrel in my house, but I've got about five of them that are now scratching at my door morning noon and before night, probably because I'm giving them the good stuff and everyone else is throwing peanuts. Some of these guys have built nests that are way too high up and I don't think are structurally sound enough. We've had wind storms all week and these things sway like crazy, between that and the cats if we had any babies, we'd be looking at an awful lot of orphans right now. I've read tons on how to take care of them, and while I probably have an acceptable enough knowledge to accomplish the task, (definately more than anyone else I know around Spokane) I work full time and I'm renting. So I neither have the time, nor the space to actually do it.

So while I worry about these guys, I kind of have to take a breath and take a step back. It's kind of something you eventually have to learn, I mean while you love and care for these animals and no one here questions that, but eventually you have to take a step back and take care of you. It may sound heartless, but no squirrel is worth loosing you, and trust me, worrying too much is a killer. In the last year I've been diagnosed with three more debilitating diseases and have had to learn to live with them very quickly. And that's not counting the bipolar disorder and essential tremor (a mild form of parkinsons) that I was all ready dealing with. My point in bringing this up is not to say "hey, I got it harder than you," just that when faced with adversity sometimes you just don't see how far you have to go to overcome, and really what you ARE capable of. I mean crap, after the celiac disease diagnosis I came out of the hospital wondering just what the heck I COULD do in this world. Well, a heck of a lot it turns out.

I guess what I'm saying is, if your world isn't working for you, change your world. And understand two things: 1, that you are perfectly capable of doing so, and 2, the cost of success is effort and time.

If this helps, I'll make a little confession myself. I graduated from ITT Tech to get my degree, which got me the job that I have now. But when I went to school, I was at the top of my class in a very challenging program, mostly because for many years before this I had all ready learned these programs by downloading them over the internet and just pouring over free online tutorials. By the time I got to school I had such a massive knowledge of these programs they were teaching, I actually ended up consulting with instructors on the capabilities of these programs that they didn't even understand.

So I kind of know where your coming from. All though I admit my employers know about this and are more than happy to have someone on their staff they can turn to for just about anything, even if I don't know a thing about civil engineering. Just don't tell anyone else. ;)

As for a possible solution to your situation with Sadie, I can really only think of one thing. You obviously have thought out how you are going to house Sadie where you currently reside. So you must have some capability of fashioning up some kind of halfway decent facility that you can "say" is for rehabing squirrels. If we can just find one from that state, one that is careing and compassionate and we can explain and they will understand your situation, then it would have to work something like this. My understanding from what these guys have said is that during your two year mentoring program, you are allowed to rehab squirrels. While Sadie technically can't be rehabbed, we COULD say that this rehabber that is going to become your bosom friend asked you to take care of Sadie because they didn't have room with their current work load.

That's about the only way I'm thinking that is going to work for you.

The only other thing I can think to say, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but obviously you are an exceptional person. And a fairly unique person. The laws in your state weren't made to prevent you from taking care of Sadie. They were made because you are exceptional, and there are a lot of people out there that would do more hurt than good. And I think you would agree that it would be far better that it be made as difficult as possible for these types of people to be given custody of a squirrel. Here in Washington, the number of animal cruelty cases is atrocious. And I'm not just talking about wild animals. With the meth problem over here, druggies have learned the easiest way to make money for their drugs is to breed "guard dogs," like pit bulls, rotweilers, bull dogs... It's sickening. So while yes, it really sucks that its this hard to get a license to become a rehabber, I think once we get to that point we'll be glad we've earned it, and glad the government is at least unwilling to give legitimacy to these horrible people.

So while I'm not saying "yeah, go break the law!" no one is gonna beat you over the head yelling "bad!" because obviously you've got a good heart, you've done this with good intentions, and at least had the guts to step up to the plate and do what others where unwilling or unable to do. And I hesitate to say what you've done is illegal anyway, if you've done it under the blessings of a local game warden then I don't see the problem. (I do if you're keeping her and moving her to the city, but thats symantics and we can deal with them later) Point being, you're not a bad person, we just need to work on making you legit. We just need a good plan to get you there. :)

And I obviously need to work on my post length. :)

[sadiesmom]

I look forward to hearing from you every day, DubShack, as well as anyone else who is willing to put in their two cents' worth.

The house I'm living in at the moment is large, but so is the family within it. My aunt and uncle had four kids of their own, and while two of them are grown and have families of their own, most of the time there are several grandkids staying here as well. That said, I'd still have plenty of room to keep Sadie. I have the attic-turned-bedroom all to myself, plus there's a full basement with four partitioned rooms. Sadie's wellbeing is my first and foremost concern at this point, and how I’d house her has been the least of my worries for a long time.

While on one hand I agree with you in that it is probably a very good thing that it’s hard to get a rehab license here in Virginia, on the other hand I can see how even that does more harm than good. People are going to try to do it anyway, you know? People like me. People with even less knowledge than myself. In this case, ignorance isn't bliss. It's dangerous.

I think it is ridiculous that there has to be a two year training period before a license can be obtained, when it would be so much more convenient to be able to mentor over the phone or internet, seeing as how few rehabilitators in this area we do have. It’s hard to find someone to train with! Personally, I think it would be perfectly fine to do some long-distance learning with someone else AS LONG AS the trainee is willing to subject themselves and their facility to frequent and random visits from qualified individuals who have the authority to terminate all activity if there is evidence of abuse or neglect on the caregiver’s part. I mean, I don’t see someone getting involved in rehabilitating wildlife with bad intentions, but lack of knowledge can do just as much harm.

I also can’t see someone breeding squirrels in place of dogs for drug money. Haha. Then again, you never know…

All of that aside, while I do eventually want my rehabilitation license when I am capable of dedicating myself wholly to the cause, right now all I want is to dedicate myself to Sadie. I can handle that much.

In all honesty, I see myself getting in over my head if I tried rigging up some cages to impress the VDGIF just so I can train and get my license. First off, wouldn’t the rehabber I train with expect me to take on some wildlife to care for? I don’t have time for that. I don’t have time to “rehabilitate” right now. I don’t have time to care for orphans. I don’t have time to care for the critically injured. (At least I’d know that if Sadie ever got hurt, and I were legally allowed to care for an unreleasable squirrel, I’d be able to take her to a veterinarian and be able to pick her up again afterwards.) Second off, wouldn’t I be put on some sort of active list that would give the public my contact information so that they could surrender needy wildlife to my services? I could never turn away a needy animal, and that could get me in a huge mess, considering a) my rigged up facility probably wouldn’t suffice, and b) I sincerely don’t have the time.

I don’t know. I don’t even know if I’m making any sense right now. I hope I’m making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. Who knows? Maybe I’ll be told there is a way to home an unreleasable without having to obtain a rehabilitation license that takes two years to earn. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.

But please, keep this thread active. If any of you have any other ideas or resources that might be of help to me, I’m begging for it. If any of you have been in this type of situation before, I’d love to hear about it. I’m starting to feel like I’m running out of options, only because my knowledge is limited as to whom I need to speak to about this. I know there’s a way around it. I just have to find it.

And DubShack, I'm not trying to intrude in your personal life, but I know a good lot on what you're going through with some of the things you have mentioned, and I honestly applaud you. You're obviously an extremely strong person with a huge heart. No wonder those squirrels love you. :Love_Icon

[DubShack]

Again, I'm at work, but thank you for the kind words. :)

And I think yeah, you might be getting more worked up then you need to be. In the words of Dave Ramsey, breathe girl. :)

My suggestion was alluding to us taking the time to get to know a rehabber in your area, and when I mean in your area, I mean anyone in your state who is a caring person and has an email address. Once we're all buddy buddy and understand that for now you aren't in a position to rehab, just looking to legitimately take care of Sadie, then what we say to the government is the other thing, that she's having you take care of her because this other rehabber doesn't have the room. As for finding someone in your area, they gotta have some ways of getting people licensed in remote areas. I really don't see them having a problem with the email thing. This is the 21st century, online education has become almost a cornerstone of our society.

That said, I think we may be overanalyzing the problem. You said you originally took care of Sadie with the blessing of a game warden. That answers a few questions and raises more I think. It answers whether you can legally keep Sadie- Yes. Very simple. I'm assuming he has the authority to actually do this, but it at least answers the semi-non-knowledgable who come over and say "You have a squirrel, isn't that illegal?" You tell them it's illegal without permission, and you have permission from the game warden. As for getting vet care for her, that may or may not work the same way. I wouldn't so much go begging and pleading for help at the last minute when you desperately need it. I'd perhaps call around, and say "Hi, I'm new to the area and I have a squirrel that was legally placed under my care by a game warden who is a friend of the family, and I am wondering if you would be interested in serving as emergency vet for her if ever there should be a problem." Don't give them your name or anything. If they throw a big fuss about having to be a licensed rehabber, tell them you are sorry for wasting their time and hang up. If they say they don't have experience in wild animals, thank them and hang up. But I'd seriously call every vet in your city, and maybe even the outskirts until I got a yes. But key thing is here, don't exactly volunteer your name until you've walked into the door and met the people. (I'd also maybe call around and get recomendations on that particular vet before agreeing to meet with them, to make sure you're not getting some meth-head working out of his closet) And talk to the game warden first as well, because backup is always good. But these vets aren't going to go into a fit and trace your call and go after you. They ought to have better things to do. I mean really, if they start yelling in your ear let them talk to a dial tone. Obviously they're in the wrong field.

But thats another idea, and I could be crazy, but I dunno, there it is. :)

And as for the breeding thing, that is kind of funny but wouldn't surprise me. But no, they are harsh about animal cruelty because of all the cases involving the dogs. They have "harsh laws" about squirrels because of the Western Gray going extinct. They basically blanket the law over all breeds because to most people they all look the same. They just aren't very good at enforcing the law. After warning the local lumber companies about the problem, the lumberjacks specifically targeted trees with Western gray nests in them. Washington basically didn't do anything about it. But they left these rediculous policies in place, like mandatory euthanasia of eastern grays and making it difficult to rehab... It's just sad.

[muffinsquirrel]

If it's any consolation to you, I did a lot of rehabbing before I was legal! I started out by buying a flying squirrel as a pet.(They are legal in Texas.) Turned out the one I bought was an adult, and to describe her as 'not tame' would be a vast understatement! I got a lot of flyers that year, because there was a man trapping them and selling them as pets. When the new owners found out that they couldn't even touch their squirrels without being attacked, they didn't want them any more. I put an ad in our local on-line classifieds saying that I would take in unwanted or orphaned squirrels. I ended up with flyers, greys and foxers, and lots of them. I did this for 2 or 3 years and never had any trouble. When I finally did get questioned on it, it was by a licensed rehabber that saw my ad. (She sent me an email saying "Who are you and are you licensed?" and I sent her one back saying "Who are you and why do you want to know?") She invited me to work under their rehab group, and I've been here ever since. I still run my ad, too. So you see, where there's a will, there's a way - just keep looking. Find a rehabber somewhere that you can work under, and learn all you can. All you need is to be able to say "I work under so-and-so as a rehab trainee", and you should be home free. I would definately talk to the game warden that already knows you. He sounds like your best bet, and if there is a way you can get 'temporairly' approved he will be the one that will know.

Good luck to you from friendly folks and squirrels in Texas

muffinsquirrel and zoo - 13 greys, 1 foxer, one broken winged dove, assorted pets, both furred and feathered, and about 20 flying squirrels; some pets, some rescues, some in release. All of which is subject to change at the ring of a phone!

[sadiesmom]

First off, I'll have to apoligize for my absence for the past few days. One of my two beloved pet rats has passed away. I am extremely heartbroken and the wound inside me is still very fresh.

Please give me a few days to be able to gather myself together.

Thank you--each and every one--for keeping the advice coming. And thanks for caring.

-Brandi

[la dame à l'écureuil]

I'm so sorry to hear about your rat, Brandi. I hope the other one is okay. It's just awful when you lose an animal you've cared for.

[sadiesmom]

Again, I apologize for not keeping up with this thread for the past few days.

On a different note, I have not yet heard back from anyone I sent the letter out to. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm still unsure what my next step should be. I'm heavily considering calling up the VDGIF myself and talking to someone personally about how I could go about housing an unreleasable squirrel legally. I'm not going to get off their backs until I find a solution to this mess and know I won't have Sadie taken away from me.

I get to visit her next week, by the way. I'm planning on going home for Thanksgiving, and while I know she'll probably be a little leery of me for a while--as I've been gone for a few months--I know she'll warm right back up to me. She always does. :Love_Icon

[sadiesmom]

Heres the email I recieved from VDGIF:



Please reference your request to keep a squirrel in captivity. There is no provision in the Code of Virginia or in Game Department Regulations that allows citizens to keep wildlife in captivity for personal enjoyment. Wildlife Rehabilitators are only permitted to keep injured or orphaned wildlife until they are healthy enough to be released into the wild. Animals that cannot be released must be euthanized. In some instances, animals that cannot be released may be offered to a museum, university, zoo, or other institution for educational purposes. These circumstances require written approval from the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. Wildlife rehabilitators have a Code of Ethics they must adhere to, and they agree to abide by these mandates when they sign their applications. The goal of wildlife rehabilitators is to return injured or orphaned native animals to their natural habitat, as quickly as possible, providing them with a reasonable chance to function and behave normally within its population and ecosystem.

Your request to keep an unreleasable squirrel must be denied. The only legal way to work with wildlife is to become a licensed caregiver or rehabilitator. We encourage you to become a caregiver, working under the supervision of a permitted rehabilitator.

Thank you.

Permits Section
Department of Game & Inland Fisheries"

[Somebody's Mother]

meet me in charlotte,nc and i will be the one with a rose in my lapel and we can switch pet carriers so no one notices. i will bring the little critter back into south carolina where he has rights!! j/k well sort of. i hate that stuff about it being euthanised because it can't be returned to the wild. that is shear ignorance. there is nothing inside my living room that can throw off the balance of the ecosystem.

[sadiesmom]

There's absolutely nothing I can do about it now. Nothing. Even if I hand her over to someone who is licensed, she'll be euthanized. Someone please give me a miracle answer.

[sadiesmom]

Okay, the last post was a bit psychotic, but I guess I just really got my hopes up that somehow I'd get permission to keep an unreleasable. And I know I shouldn't have. Deep down, I knew I'd be denied.

Am I really going to have to keep her under wraps for the rest of her life? That pretty much rules out ever renting a place when I do move out. I seriously even threw up the idea of moving to South Carolina to my boyfriend, who knows how desperate I am to keep my little girl. His reaction, however, was a quick "no".

I had no idea that Virginia euthanized its unreleasables. It's incredibly unfair. We don't euthanize people with afflictions such as lost limbs and etcetera. Isn't it basically the same? As long as the animal is spayed/neutered and vaccinated (to prevent disease and the possibility of illegal breeding, obviously), what does it matter if its life is spared and lives the rest of its days happily with someone who can care and provide for it? I don't mean to turn this into a rant, but this whole deal has totally just rubbed me the wrong way. To think that someone would rip Sadie from my care and take her life, all because I saved it...

[sadiesmom]

Besides, how could I have ever turned this away last February:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/mudflower/squirrel.jpg

[sadiesmom]

Someone suggested that I consider writing the governor of Virginia for a pardon. Is this rational? How would I go about doing it?

[Gabe]

I think I would just stop drawing attention to myself. If you continue with the letter writing you are going to make someone suspicious.

[island rehabber]

I think I would just stop drawing attention to myself. If you continue with the letter writing you are going to make someone suspicious.

I agree with Gabe -- don't draw any more attention to yourself! There have been horrible accounts -- granted, with raccoons and not squirrels -- of people's homes being stormed by the DNR troopers and animals being terrorized, seized and killed. One woman with a rehab facility in the midwest had 65 of her healthy, pre-release babies seized and killed last year. Ssssshhhh!!!! But keep trying to find a rehabber you can apprentice under....it would be wonderful if you could get your license. We need you!

[Gabe]

I agree with Gabe -- don't draw any more attention to yourself! There have been horrible accounts -- granted, with raccoons and not squirrels -- of people's homes being stormed by the DNR troopers and animals being terrorized, seized and killed. One woman with a rehab facility in the midwest had 65 of her healthy, pre-release babies seized and killed last year. Ssssshhhh!!!! But keep trying to find a rehabber you can apprentice under....it would be wonderful if you could get your license. We need you!

I remember that story, they brought 3 or 4 vets with them, her husband called her at work and by the time she had made the drive home from work,
( took her an hour), it was too late.

[Critter_Queen]

My suggestion:

"What squirrel? She ran away. Virginia says 'no squirrels', so I let her go."

You are bound to run into issues down the road if you keep her (vet issues)...you have to decide if you can make that kind of committment to her. If you can, we'll help you. :D

[Critter_Queen]

One woman with a rehab facility in the midwest had 65 of her healthy, pre-release babies seized and killed last year.

When and where was this? That makes me SICK! WHY wouldn't they try to place the animals with REHABBERS?!?!?!? Ugh. I hate government. It's all politicin' and no common sense!

[sadiesmom]

I understand the concern you all have about wanting me to stop drawing attention to myself, but I can't keep her a secret forever. I'm looking into getting my own place soon with my boyfriend. How am I going to explain Sadie to a landlord?

I really appreciate the advice you guys have given me so far. I just really think I've exhausted all chances I had.

I'm definitely commited to my girl. I'm willing to face any punishment that might come from this for her sake. I'm keeping her no matter what the state laws say. Saving the life of one squirrel won't cause an unbalance in the ecosystem. I suppose the next step is to try to find a vet who is willing to accept her as a patient (and give her back).

[Gabe]

You're right it was all polictics. She was a rehabber. She just wasn't rabies vector certified. They were sending a message to the rest of us.

[Critter_Queen]

I understand the concern you all have about wanting me to stop drawing attention to myself, but I can't keep her a secret forever. I'm looking into getting my own place soon with my boyfriend. How am I going to explain Sadie to a landlord?

I really appreciate the advice you guys have given me so far. I just really think I've exhausted all chances I had.

Although I know you'd love to keep her...and generally I wouldn't suggest this, but what about finding her a different permanent home in a state where she's legal? I mean, it's not what you'd like, but it sounds like you feel that your only other options are to either let her go (I wouldn't do it if she's imprinted or tame) or euthanize her.

I forget, why is she non-releaseable?

[sadiesmom]

If it comes down to it, I will give her up to someone who lives in a squirrel friendly state. But I don't want to. This baby has my heart.

Sadie is unreleasable, but only because I say she is. She has absolutely no fear of anything and wouldn't make it outside a single day. She's a part of my family, and I can't just give up on her. And yes, she is definitely too tame and used to the good life to ever have to do for herself in the wild.

[sadiesmom]

I mean, it's not what you'd like, but it sounds like you feel that your only other options are to either let her go (I wouldn't do it if she's imprinted or tame) or euthanize her.

And no, never! I didn't mean to give that impression. I'm just really disheartened about running out of ideas to legally keep her. I'd never just let her go or euthanize her for that reason.

[DubShack]

I guess I'm lucky in a sense... If anything happened to someone around here, even though Washington has the same laws as Virginia, I'm from Idaho originally and it's only a half hour drive from here. By proxy I know a number of people involved with animals, and even wildlife. One family I know takes care of unreleasable wild animals, mainly the dangerous ones like lions, tigers, cougers, etc. I can imagine that if an emergency came up, it wouldn't be exceptionally difficult to find help.

In your case, the "legal" avenue seems to be closed. Where in Virginia do you live? Do you know anyone, or have any family anywhere else?

And I know this is going to make me sound like a real bastard, but coming from where I do, I don't think I can stress enough that you should take the "moving in with the boyfriend" as slowly and as seriously as possible. That's just opening up a can of worms that extends so far outside the realms of this discussion. And I realize I don't know you well enough to even be making this kind of assumption, but based on what we've all said thus far, there may be a hint of "I need to move in with my boyfriend to save my squirrel" thoughts. And I may be wrong, but on the off chance I'm not, thats just absolutely the wrong reason to move in with a guy. I know I'm the biggest hippocrit saying this, my wife moved in with me like two weeks after we met. But seriously, relationships are hard, they take a hell of a lot of communication to maintain, and I swear the moment you move in with each other is the moment you start hating each other.

I could just go on and on on this subject, and I dunno if I'd even make sense, a lot of people feel differently on the subject. I just feel rather strongly that this is probably not going to be the right move for you. If you guys break up or you lose your apartment, then what happens to the squirrel... You're back to square one, only you've lost the ability to stop, let your emotions cool and analyze the situation for the best outcome. At this point you've got all the time in the world to make a decision, in that situation things could become desperate.

I really don't want to make you feel worse, even though I realize this can't possibly make you feel better. Just understand there are still probably some options here, we just really need to take a cold hard look at the situation to determine what really will be best for everyone. (and I'm not saying give up the squirrel, you gotta be a real dumbass to advocate the euthanasia scenario)

[island rehabber]

I'd like to re-cap Dubshack's original comparison -- that keeping a squirrel in an illegal state is kind of like smoking weed, everybody does it but they don't make a public performance out of it. If you are going to keep this squirrel because you say she is unreleasable then you must stay underground with her. In my opinion it is irresponsible to allow your possession of her to become public knowledge to your landlord, your neighbors, or anyone else. Just because you think the law is stupid does not mean you are wise to break it. In other words, don't be toke-ing away on that spliff in front of the local police department while singing Bob Marley tunes -- they won't find it humorous and you may land in jail. Likewise, don't let anyone know you have this squirrel or you risk her being confiscated and euthanized. That's all I can say on this.

[Alaskan Squirrel Cam]

Wise Words from a smart rehabber.

bob

[DubShack]

Yeah. I think IR said it better. I'm gonna go hide now...

[henrismom]

IR, You said it all, where I live its illegal to have a Pet squirrel. Talked to a
rehabber, who said to stay quite. The law works like this, if he is found, he is
euthanized on the spot or by a rehabber since he is a Pet, but if I had a pot
of boiling water on the stove and officials came in, I could throw him in the pot of boiling water, not breaking the law that way.
I have a Vet. who is willing to take care of him, but have to use the back door. The conversation was left at "I have a rat with a hormone condition."
STUPID but its the law.:shakehead

[sadiesmom]

I don't brag about Sadie to anyone. I understand that there are real dangers with having someone take her away from me, and I don't trust anyone to know about her if they don't already know. This is the most public I've gone with it, and I still worry about being discovered just through this thread.

And as far as the boyfriend situation goes, I'm not moving in with him, per se. He's moving in with me in my aunt's home. Temporarily, that is. To make a long story short, he is from the opposite side of Virginia as me and after four years of dating we're only trying to see if there could be a possible next step. Because it is a long-distance relationship, we still don't know each other when it comes to day-to-day living, and we don't just want to jump into a marriage (or even an engagement) if we don't even know if we can live under the same roof. You know? It's a big decision we're making, but I assure you that it has nothing to do with keeping Sadie a safe secret.

If I honestly thought Sadie could make it on her own, I'd let her be a wild squirrel. It would rip the heart right out of my chest, but I do know that it would be best for her (and for me, considering my situation with the law). You'd just have to meet her in order to understand why she absolutely cannot survive on her own. She's too incredibly tame. She has fear of nothing and thinks every living creature is her personal play date.

Besides, we're having a rough time with coyotes around. There's a bounty on their head because of the population explosion and the fact that they keep killing people's pets. Sadie loves to hide until one of our dogs walks by, and then she tries to jump and catch their tail. I can only imagine her encounter with a hungry coyote if she only wanted to play with its tail.

Most of my family is in Virginia, but I do have a great uncle in South Carolina. It's legal to own a squirrel there, I think. I'm not too entirely close to him (actually he's a butthole), but I'm sure I could send Sadie his way if things got that bad. I'd like to have someone on backup who actually knows a thing or two about them, though.

I'm just under so much stress about this. I only want the best for her, but at this point, I am the best for her. I can't just hand her over to anyone else in Virginia, licensed or not, because either way she'd probably be killed.

She's just so special to me, guys...

[Somebody's Mother]

how is sadie? just wondering.

[sadiesmom]

Replied to your private message, Somebody's Mother, but I'll leave a quick update here for others if they are interested.

Sadie is doing beautifully. I visited her over the Thanksgiving holiday and she kept me entertained the entire time. She's a well fed spoiled girl who loves nothing more than to keep people laughing. What a doll. <3

[Momma Squirrel]

So glad to hear Sadie is doing well and happy. Where is she?

[sadiesmom]

Sadie is still with my parents, who live about three hours from me. There's next to no chance of her being discovered where she is now, so she'll stay with them until I can get in some sort of situation where I can keep her myself. They're just as knowledgeable with Sadie as I am, as they learned with me how to raise her when she was a baby, so she's being well taken care of. She's healthy and spoiled. :Love_Icon

[Momma Squirrel]

Both you and Sadie are lucky to have your parents to help out. Glad they are there for both of you and hope you get to have her back full time real soon.

[sadiesmom]

That means a lot. I'm grateful and appreciative of them.