Squirrel very lethargic, then has bursts of energy

[silentenigma]

Hi, I am new to these forums. I have a squirrel that I adopted when a friend found her as a baby in her yard after a bad storm. She was around 6 weeks old when I got her (April 2010). She did amazingly well. I was going to give her to a rehabber after she got a bit older, but grew very attached to her. Bunny, is such an amazing little girl & i love her as if she were my child. :) Anyway, this afternoon, I noticed she seemed rather sluggish and not her normal self. I thought maybe she had gotten into something she shouldn't have, but I have "squirrel proofed" my room as much as I can & found no evidence that she had gotten into anything. I put her on a heating pad, gave her water and monitored her for the next couple of hours. Still really listless. I decided to try and wake her up, because she looked as though she was on her way out. She then perks up, got really hyper, ate some apple, snaps, and a little bit of pecans. She drank a small bit of water, I also gave her a little bit of gatorade. She is now going back and forth, listless, then bursts of energy & eating. Does anyone have any idea as to what could be making her act this way? I am VERY worried! I live in a state that it is illegal to own squirrels, but my vet has seen her a few times. She broke her leg a few months ago & he splinted her leg for us, and saw her again after she took her splint off. I don't think I have anything to worry about in regards to them not seeing her again or taking her from me. So, do I need to just go ahead and get her into the vet asap? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

*sorry for the rambling post, I am an emotional mess at the moment. Thanks!
Jen

[CritterMom]

A vet who will see a squirrel is a keeper!

Can you tell us about her diet? Does she eat any kind of commercial rodent block?

[CritterMom]

OK...given the lethargy but still willing to eat - and even able to try to mask the fact that she doesn't feel well, I am wondering if she may have metabolic bone disease, caused by a shortage of calcium and other minerals used in building and maintaining bone.

Do you have any Tums? The antacid. They are made from calcium. The first think I would do is get a half a Tums in her now and give the rest of it through the night. Crush and give with water or she may be willing to eat it like a treat - they are flavored. I would do this even if you are able to get her vet help this evening. It will not hurt her and if it is MBD it will begin to address the problem.

[silentenigma]

No, I don't think I ever given her a rodent block. Is this something I should be giving her? She eats pecans, almonds, sometimes walnuts. Sugar snaps, apples, I also buy the mixed greens, she loves watermelon, once in awhile she will eat oranges, she loves pumpkin seeds. I do buy the mixed bags of goodies (kind of like a trail mix) for small rodents. I am worried that she may have a calcium deficiency? Reading these forums is very enlightening, I wish I had known about them sooner. :) I would also like to get more of the calcium drops from the vet. He gave her some when she broke her leg. Thanks for any help you guys can give me.

[silentenigma]

Sorry, must have been posting the same time. :) I had my fiancee go out & get some tums, after reading the forums. She ate a little bit of a Tums, maybe 5 or 6 bites.

[silentenigma]

Do you know if it would be ok to give Bunny a Calcium & Vitamin D liquid supplement? My mother says she takes it daily, it is from Wellesse, and comes in a natural berry flavor. Or do I need to get a calcium supplement strictly from a vet? I can't get into the vet tonight & want to address this as soon as possible. I would be devastated if something happens to my little girl.

[Skul]

Generally, a vitamin D supplement isn't needed unless the little one does not get any natural sunshine.
Going straight Tums is far better.
Now, what I might suggest is to add a fresh mushroom to the diet.
That will supply the D, without over-dosing.

[CritterMom]

Yes, right now the Tums is the choice. Read the label. What is the calcium content - I think 500mg?? The stuff from your vet probably does not have enough calcium to do very much for her, believe it or not. For now, stick with Tums.

Read this:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17680

So, right now, what you want to do is provide her with some supplemental warmth, as you have been doing, with the ability to move off of it. It may be easier to crush the Tums in some water or fruit juice and syringe or eyedropper it to her. You want to try to spread the calcium administration out through the day instead of all at once. Right now I would get the entire Tums into her before you all go to bed.

This is a long term problem - if it is MBD the acute symptoms will clear fairly soon with the loading dose of calcium, but you are going to need to continue it and you will need to modify her diet with some type of rat block, which is designed to supply these nutrients. I will shoot up a flare for the MBD person on here for you so she can provide more info. PLEASE stick with us - don't assume this is over when the symptoms subside. This can be fixed but it takes some time.

[silentenigma]

I will get right on the Tums. I know she didn't get enough into her system earlier, so will go ahead and mix with water & use a syringe. Thank you VERY much, both of you, for your help. I will do whatever I have to for however long it takes to get Bunny better. So try & get a whole Tums in her system tonight? I am guessing the thread you suggested I read tells me how often and how much to continue giving her. (heading over to read now) Thanks again, I really appreciate your help & am SO glad I found these forums. It is really nice to see that there are so many caring animal people out there. :)

Jen

[CritterMom]

Go to the Nutrition forum: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191

and read through the 6th and 7th threads - the first, Emergency treatment for MBD, is an updated version of the link I sent you; the next one, Long Term treatment, is for once you get past the acute phase.

Even if it is warm in your house, do offer her the supplemental warmth - the condition makes their bones ache and the warmth feels good. Make sure she can move off of the heat if she wants to.

Also, try to pad the bottom of her cage with a comforter or something, and do what you can to limit the distance she can fall. Their bones are brittle with this - it may be part of the reason she broke a leg.

If you take her to the vet, an x-ray would show this. If she is quite improved acting tomorrow, which is likely the soonest he could see her anyway, you will know you are on the right course. The "No" answer to the rat block question along with the lethargy and broken limb are all pretty indicative of MBD though.

We have a number of really good success stories with this on the board- one of them (you can read about Wayne and Garth in the "Success Stories" room) was actually paralyzed and is ANYTHING BUT now!

[4skwerlz]

You've gotten great advice. MBD is the biggest killer of pet squirrels. They must have some kind of rodent block in their diet, not just for calcium but also for the other vitamins & minerals & protein needed for bone metabolism.

Follow the Emergency Treatment for MBD, get her on the healthy diet, and keep checking back to let us know how she's doing. It's very important for us to monitor how she's doing on her diet, whether she continues to have symptoms, and so on.

If you have questions, just ask. :thumbsup

[virgo062]

Don't disregard anything on this post but...Knothead has been acting the same way, I even called Rick this morning to go home and check him out. he does this from time to time...Just about the time I'm sure I'm losing him he jumps up like a mad man and bites me :). In Knotty's case I think it's just the extreme heatwave. I know he lives in the house but he seems to follow the patterns of the "wild ones" and they have been almost non existent lately.
If you think she needs a vet by all means go but I'm having the same issue.

[CritterMom]

Virgo, it is the "no rodent blocks" that really got my interest here.

She will need to have these as a staple in her diet forever, BTW. Toy have some choices.

4skwerls, who posted just above here, has a link to her store, Henry's Pets, in her signature line.
She has a couple different home baked blocks made just for squirrels, as well as calcum powder (better in the long run than Tums, which have other stuff in them) and any number of things.

Harlan Teklad makes a good rodent block, and can be purchased online from www.craftyrat.com. You want the lab blocks, not any of the seed mixes.

Mazuri is another lab block (they were designed to feed lab rats) that I think can be bought through Chris' Squirrels at http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/.

Ideally you will get her to eat 3 or so of these a day and she will then be getting the correct calcium/mineral mix through her diet, and you will not need to supplement with added calcium powder.

Please read through the info in the Nutrition Room over the next couple days. Good stuff there. And resist the almost universal urge to give lots more calcium than needed. More is not better!!:nono

Lots of studying for you!

[silentenigma]

Thanks again, Crittermom. I am printing out everything! I will check out Henry's Pets as well, getting a Rodent block is also at the tip top of my list. I've gotten Bunny to eat a almost half of Tums, she now keeps trying to "bury" the rest in my hand. Having a bit harder time with the dropper method. I do have her drops (I finally found) added into one of her water bottles as well. I will try to get the other half into her before bed, though. Not giving up!:thankyou



* Just ordered the squirrel blocks from Henry's Pets!

[CritterMom]

Get creative. Grind it up and mix with a little peanut butter or nutella and let her lick it off your finger. Cut a thin slice of avocado, put some of the power on it, and cut in half and "glue" the surfaces with the calcium powder together - calcium sandwich. The straight calcium powder is nice because it has no flavor and hides pretty well.

[CritterMom]

Thanks again, Crittermom. I am printing out everything! I will check out Henry's Pets as well, getting a Rodent block is also at the tip top of my list. I've gotten Bunny to eat a almost half of Tums, she now keeps trying to "bury" the rest in my hand. Having a bit harder time with the dropper method. I do have her drops (I finally found) added into one of her water bottles as well. I will try to get the other half into her before bed, though. Not giving up!:thankyou



* Just ordered the squirrel blocks from Henry's Pets!

Please let us know how Bunny is doing this morning.

Prepare yourself to have her turn her nose up at the blocks. Picture a child who has been raised on Count Chocula and Fruit Loops and suddenly has a bowl of Shredded Wheat placed in front of him! "Uh, Mom, where is the REAL food?" If this happens, don't despair, there are ALL KINDS of ways to trick them into eating it and finally liking it.

[silentenigma]

Bunny seems better this morning. I am going out to the local health food store to see if I can locate the calcium powder for her. Bunny doesn't really like peanut butter, so I am going to try the avocado method with the powder. I will NOT give up! The vet is going to try & squeeze us in this afternoon as well. Thanks again for all of your help & advice, it is greatly appreciated. Bunny thanks you as well. :bowdown

[CritterMom]

If you have a good sized health food store, or maybe a Whole Foods or Trader Joes, they should have it. Calcium without D is kind of hard to find - squirrels need D but not as much as humans so you want to try to find plain calcium. I have found calcium carbonate as a powder; last time I was browsing at Whole Foods (who can afford to shop there??) I saw they had SolGar brand - which is a big, major brand - calcium citrate in tablet form, so it IS out there. The plain calcium "hides" better than the Tums do because it isn't flavored, but you can continue with the Tums for a while if you have problems.

Your vet is gonna try to push the calcium gluconate syrup on you...it really doesn't have enough calcium in it to do what you are trying to do here. Not many of them have any kind of experience with squirrels, but his x-ray machine should help - unless Bunny is in the first stages of MBD and it isn't bad enough to have really deteriorated the bone yet. The nice thing about the calcium treatment is that it isn't going to hurt her even if she doesn't have MBD, as long as you don't megadose forever!

Oops - almost forgot - we need pics of Bunny. It is how we get paid around here! We live for squirrel pics...

[silentenigma]

I think I can do that! :) Here are some photos of my lil' Bunny:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4882964348_1534f13bbe_m.jpg
This one was taken the 2nd day I had her, she would eat & then snuggle up with me.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4882950398_645d8c7fff_m.jpg
Bunny kiss
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4882964232_f6181f8669_m.jpg
Close-up
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4882357835_f1f2dc765c.jpg
I love her cute nose!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4882357803_10cc18eac6.jpg
Eating.

[Josephina]

Josephina is getting lethargic, too!

She eats the Henry's blocks everyday, but perhaps I should give her even more calcium?

They have been paving the parking lots where we are for the past two days, and perhaps the smell seems to bother her.

Could it be because she has been more active in the mornings lately? She chewed a huge whole in the bottom of her cage and gets out in the morning. Plays all morning then goes back into her cage (through the hole and) takes a nap around lunch time.

Since she has been getting out of her cage in the mornings, I am having trouble forcing her to eat her vegetables. Every morning before the hole, she was forced to eat her squirrel blocks first (which she didn't mind hardly ever), and then her vegetables. Although, the last two days, she has preferred running around seeking stashed nuts to eating vegetables. This morning I had given her a kale leaf (normally her favorite), and instead of eating it, she immediately grabbed it and rolled around with it as if it had been attacking her. :shakehead

Her new cage doesn't arrive until Friday, so we'll have to hold out a few days, but I wonder if her not eating enough vegetables is making her lethargic in the afternoons. :dono

[CritterMom]

Josephina is getting lethargic, too!

She eats the Henry's blocks everyday, but perhaps I should give her even more calcium?

They have been paving the parking lots where we are for the past two days, and perhaps the smell seems to bother her.

Could it be because she has been more active in the mornings lately? She chewed a huge whole in the bottom of her cage and gets out in the morning. Plays all morning then goes back into her cage (through the hole and) takes a nap around lunch time.

Since she has been getting out of her cage in the mornings, I am having trouble forcing her to eat her vegetables. Every morning before the hole, she was forced to eat her squirrel blocks first (which she didn't mind hardly ever), and then her vegetables. Although, the last two days, she has preferred running around seeking stashed nuts to eating vegetables. This morning I had given her a kale leaf (normally her favorite), and instead of eating it, she immediately grabbed it and rolled around with it as if it had been attacking her. :shakehead

Her new cage doesn't arrive until Friday, so we'll have to hold out a few days, but I wonder if her not eating enough vegetables is making her lethargic in the afternoons. :dono

If she is eating HHBs she doesn't need calcium. Squirrels are LAZY!!! Here is Mister P's day: Up at 5:30AM, play until 10 then off for nap until I wake him up at lunchtime when I get home. Eat lunch treat, back to naptime until about 4 in the afternoon. Then he waits for me to get home at 5:30, comes out and lays waste to my room for a few hours, back to his cage by 7, dinner, then sacked out by 7:30 or 8 and I don't see him again until the next morning. They ALL sleep in the afternoon. If you look in your yard, normally the only squirrels you will see midday are the juveniles that haven't learned the joy of napping...

[Josephina]

If she is eating HHBs she doesn't need calcium. Squirrels are LAZY!!! Here is Mister P's day: Up at 5:30AM, play until 10 then off for nap until I wake him up at lunchtime when I get home. Eat lunch treat, back to naptime until about 4 in the afternoon. Then he waits for me to get home at 5:30, comes out and lays waste to my room for a few hours, back to his cage by 7, dinner, then sacked out by 7:30 or 8 and I don't see him again until the next morning. They ALL sleep in the afternoon. If you look in your yard, normally the only squirrels you will see midday are the juveniles that haven't learned the joy of napping...

Thanks for the info!

I'm starting to get the picture. She had another spurt of energy and went wild this afternoon, went into Destruction Mode and destroyed a water bottle for the mouse. I patted her behind (barely a breeze of a touch, but that alone was enough to humble her --- not even hard enough as a 'petting' touch). So she went to rest on top of her cage to give herself a timeout break. lol

She does seem to be on the same schedule as the squirrels outside, so I guess I shouldn't be overly concerned.

[Josephina]

UPDATE:

She went to lie on her cage long enough to watch for me to leave the room, then she continued her destruction swiftly. In under 2 minutes she destroyed my answering machine and my mouse's custom water bottle.

She seems to be feeling much better.

[CritterMom]

Silentenigma - can we have an update from your vet visit?

[silentenigma]

Well, the vet did not see anything in the x-ray & did give me more of the drops. I went out and got a bag of rodent block for her and she does NOT like them one bit. By the way she seems to be doing much better. Not acting lethargic one bit & back to her feisty self. I did order the calcium and squirrel blocks from Henry's, still waiting for that. Could not find any calcium powder, though. She has been nibbling on Tums, and I am giving her the drops. She has been eating Kale as well. I know this all isn't quite good enough, but I am going to drive out to Earth Fair today & see if they have any of the calcium powder, I want to get her started on that asap. I hope the blocks & calcium ship soon from Henry's. The order cleared with my bank, but when I go to the site it says still "awaiting fulfillment". :dono I am trying, though. :)

[CritterMom]

Well, the vet did not see anything in the x-ray & did give me more of the drops. I went out and got a bag of rodent block for her and she does NOT like them one bit. By the way she seems to be doing much better. Not acting lethargic one bit & back to her feisty self. I did order the calcium and squirrel blocks from Henry's, still waiting for that. Could not find any calcium powder, though. She has been nibbling on Tums, and I am giving her the drops. She has been eating Kale as well. I know this all isn't quite good enough, but I am going to drive out to Earth Fair today & see if they have any of the calcium powder, I want to get her started on that asap. I hope the blocks & calcium ship soon from Henry's. The order cleared with my bank, but when I go to the site it says still "awaiting fulfillment". :dono I am trying, though. :)


All good news! Tums are fine for now, and if she likes the HHB blocks, you are home free. If you send a note to the henryspets site, 4skwerls will answer promptly - she is a member here and knows how important this is. Kale is good - my boy loves it.

We can get creative with the blocks, too - many ways to trick them. My squirrel Mister P is an easy boy - he eats everything, but I make this for him because he loves it so much - he gets it once a day at least: Grind up some of the rodent block in a little coffee grinder or blender. Mix in enough full fat yogurt - I use Yobaby by Yoplait - the peach and pear are favorites - to turn it into sort of a soupy cream of wheat texture. I then add a little bit of almond butter - better for them than peanut butter and the seem to like it more (check the health food when you are there - find some without salt). I heat it up so the almond butter melts and mixes into the mixture and I feed it to him on a teaspoon. Loves it! So there is one way to sneak the goods in.

[silentenigma]

Thanks so much! Again I appreciate all the helpful info you have given me. I will try out the rodent block with yogurt and almond butter trick as well. Thanks again & I will keep you guys updated on Bunny's progress. Will try contacting Henry's about the order, it is probably just my horrible impatience! :)

[silentenigma]

I didn't even order the darn calcium powder with my blocks! Grrr. Thank you all at Henry's (and here) for being so kind & helpful to me & my Bunny. :) I owe you all so much. I am crossing my fingers that lil Ms. Bunny will eat her blocks! If I have to take a bite and show her how yummy they are first, I will!
Thanks again guys!

Jen (& Peggy, Bunny's wonderful g-ma who is helping pay for all Bunny's meds)

[CritterMom]

Again, 4skwerls is used to us being idiots when we get to her site! OK, well, she is used to ME being and idiot... If it hasn't shipped, I know she will fix your order! Send her a message, either by PM (she has posted in your thread here) or on her site.

[silentenigma]

Oh she was very helpful! Told me I didn't order the calcium powder & said she included it in my order for me. :) I went ahead and ordered some ( I must have been a space case when I ordered). Bunny will be getting her stuff very soon! :crazy

[4skwerlz]

You should have your blocks/calcium tomorrow morning, delivered with your regular mail. :thumbsup

How is Bunny tonight?

[silentenigma]

Awesome! Thanks again for shipping overnight, just saw that it has arrived in Augusta already, so it should be here very soon. Bunny seems to be doing very well. I have cut back on a lot of the things she really likes, I kept the rodent blocks in one of her bowls, she has nibbled a little bit on them. I am giving her kale & I have to give her her very favorite, sugar snaps. :tilt She eats a little bit on her Tums, but not nearly enough to do much good I am sure. So as soon as the package gets here I am going to start her on her calcium regimen. Thanks so much ( I know I keep saying that, but I mean it, you all are life-savers!) Hope everyone has a fantastic day!
mjs

[silentenigma]

Just got Bunny's package! Thank you SO much, 4skwerlz!!!!!

[nerdmeyer]

Does Bunny like the blocks? :Squirrel

My girl Radar is just over 1 yr old and has been lethargic, wouldnt come out of her little house, not waking up and making a racket early in the morning anymore, and being very antisocial....I am fearing the development of MBD!!?? I was forced to replace her house with a basket type bed so that I can see her, she was barricading herself under her blankets and toys inside of her house and I was unsure if that was safe in the heat we have right now. So now that she is out of her house more, she seems a tad better, social skills are getting back to normal, but she doesnt like being handled anymore :( and she doesnt really run around, mostly lounges in her cage on the top shelf watching the cars go by and the goats graze across the street.

I feed her rodent blocks from www.squirrelstore.com, zupreem monkey biscuits, romaine/cabbage/bok choy (the only veggies she really likes) and a little raspberry/apple/strawberry for her dessert... Should I be feeding her an additional supply of calcium? Tums? (how much, how often, for how long?) I recently bought a full spectrum bulb that I keep on for a few hours a day for her.. thats when I noticed a smidge bit more activity. but definitely not the way she used to be :( I am worried that if its MBD, itll get worse if I dont take the right course of action.

SilentEnigma - I am so glad that you have a vet willing to see her despite the law... I too live in a state where they are not legal pets, mines is a California ground squirrel, and I am afraid to speak to a vet in fear that she will be taken away and euthanized due to the fact she may not be releasable after this long in captivity.

Some advice please!?? :dono

[CritterMom]

OK, first, can you post this in the Non-Life Threatening Room, in it's own thread, so it gets the attention it deserves? I am afraid that attaching it to the end of another thread might cause people to miss it.

Second, does Radar actually eat the rodent blocks and zupreem biscuits? If she is, then it is less likely it is a calcium issue. However, giving her extra calcium for a few days and observing her behavior would be a good idea. If she suddenly improves dramatically, then you have an answer; if she does not, the extra calcium will not hurt her. Yes, Tums is okay short term; divide into multiple small doses through the day rather than one big one.

Do CA ground squirrels hibernate? I am wondering if this is what you are seeing. It is something I don't know much about; whether it is best to allow them to do so or if it is better to manipulate their lighting to simulate longer summer like daylength...? I don't know, but you need to find out!

We do have a ground squirrel forum, too. You can learn alot by reading old threads. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=97

And we need pictures. Gotta have pictures. Lotsa pictures:D

[Cecil]

Hi nerdmeyer! My wife and I found and cared for an orphaned California Ground Squirrel until the time came to return her to the wild. Given that experience crittermom has asked me to visit this thread and add any information that I can.

I'm far from an expert on CGS's, all I know is what I experienced with Sammie and from the studying I did about the squirrels. First and foremost is this fact; California Ground Squirrels are about the most unsocial squirrels around. There are exceptions of course, but most of them do not form more than a temporary and cursory bond with humans. It sounds like Radar is one of those exceptions. However, her nature will surface on occasion, California Ground Squirrels do have their moods, and it sounds like she's in one of them.

Our squirrels do hibernate, and they also "estivate", basically the same thing as hibernation but estivation happens in summer during the hottest periods. This could account for Radar's lethargy.

It could also be her feeling a bit of "the call of the wild". Unlike other types of squirrels who not only adapt to living with humans but actually prefer it California Ground Squirrels will always have a bit of wildness in them. In the forum that crittermom recommended I read a post a long time ago that said this "wilding up" can be permanent or it can just be a brief period of discontent that passes. I feel that time will tell in Radar's case.

In the meantime crittermom's advice about adding calcium is a darn good suggestion. I might add that having her diet as close to that which she would find in the wild could be beneficial as well as creating an environment in her living area that is as close to natural as possible. Rocks, twigs, natural grasses and soil all would go a long ways towards helping her feel comfortable and more at home. Especially the twigs. Our Sam Sam loved getting fresh twigs. :D

Again, I'm not an expert and nothing I've said is based upon anything other than my own personal experience and the reading that I have done...so take what makes sense and feel free to discard the rest.

All the best to you and to Radar, and as has been said...

PICTURES!!!

[nerdmeyer]

Thanks guys! She has been out more, it does make sense about the call of the wild.. and also her being anti social.. she would crawl around on us and stuff in the beginning but didnt care for her belly to be touched and to be grabbed or picked up.
I will take into account all uve advised! and here are some pics! :D

[Busysqrl]

Oh my, look at that beautiful CGS! What a lovely coat she has :D