View Full Version : what the ### happened?????
what the h#ll happened??? i can't be enthusiastically force feeding FV over the other bad formula maker ...(no names to protect tsb) .... to squirrel parents knowing this has happened....
she's raised other squirrels ... 25 from one of her posts....
I do think she knows what she's doing....
could her fv have gone bad??? was it left in the sun somewhere....
can the box be tested for contaminants... for mycotoxins (mold spores) ...
should her water supply be tested????
something happened ...it seems to be because of the fox valley ... and i can't breathe right until i know....
as it is ... i've been reading about the other bad formula maker and they're all over the internet!!! 25 baby tigers died because of them... if this is true ...it's beyond bad and evil....
but for now i really want to figure this out....
(in addition ... i'm back on my rantings to get some kind of home made formula with vitamins ...all human grade.. for people not in u.s. .... why??? it can take several weeks to get fv to them... unless they want to pay over ? $80 for overnight shipping and!!!!!!! there's no such thing as overnight shipping... we can wait at least a week or weeks!!! for things to be cleared through customs....
and please lets not forget that food spoils ... when shipped and exposed to heat.... if food spoils then it spoils in the babys tummies... if anything food can only be shipped in the winter... (I can't get chocolates mailed in the summer nor can i get rose plants... why???? because of the above reason ... so why do we let food be shipped??? .... )
we need another way .... canada needs another way....
europe needs another way .... india needs another way....
ok ... that rant is over ...but the idea is not forgotten.....
this is the link that started it all....
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23934
i'm inviting ordubismom to comment on this too.....
maybe she has some ideas....
thanks ...
I doubt FV was the cause.
I have a hunch there is some other information missing.
lizharrell1
08-10-2010, 03:13 PM
I guess one way to check if it is the formula would be to find out the lot number on her bag......see if anyone else has that same lot number and see if anyone else is having problems. Quite a lot of us have babies right now and I haven't really seen any other problems reported, and I am sure quite a few of us probably have that same lot number. Also, I am sure Nick is able to track his batches and if made aware that there MIGHT be a problem, he would be able to contact whoever purchased those batches to see if anyone else is experiencing issues. Just a thought.
I too wonder if some info is missing. Not to mention that pinkies are incredibly difficult. Someone might have experience with a bunch of babies and their babies always do fine, but they might have all been slightly older babies, like velvets.
Also, she mentioned that she has another, slightly older squirrel that is doing fine on the FV. If there were a problem with her FV, then wouldn't the other baby be having problems too?
CritterMom
08-10-2010, 03:34 PM
I had esbilac powder go bad on me twice and it was refrigerated every moment I had it - it made Mister P quite ill one night when he was a little guy. The second time I could see that the plastic lid had "puffed" up. It stands to reason that FV could do the same. I keep mine in the freezer, just "decanting" a small amount of the powder in a little jar in the fridge at a time. Did it sit out on the counter overnight by accident? How cold is her fridge? All of these are questions that would have to be asked.
The clock starts ticking on this stuff from when it is opened - when the factory seal is broken, so I doubt that unless it was held in ungodly conditions somewhere that it spoiled before opening.
And yes, a formula that can be made from easily obtained ingredients for folks out of the US would be nice... If I am not mistaken, Jackie raised a lot of babies on that goats milk formula.
hi liz ...thanks... i pmd her....
the other squirrel is on the different formula ... i think ...she'll confirm....
i know we all love fv... but it's too scary for me to be encouraging people to fv from the other ... and then this happens....
:thankyou
maybe it's a pinkies thing ...but she's not inexperienced ...and all 4 to go so fast when shes had them fine on homemade formula????
lizharrell1
08-10-2010, 03:43 PM
I agree that it does sound odd gs1.......and what is even more worrisome is that if there IS a problem now with FV, then just what the heck are we supposed to use now? As far as storing the formula....I just always keep the bag in my freezer and scoop out what I need to make that day's formula. I then keep the made up formula in my fridge. In the very back where it stays cooler. I don't recall from her thread but was she adding heavy cream or yogurt to the formula? Because there is always the possibility that one of those were bad.
thanks cm :thumbsup ... i didn't see your post before....:D
jackies formula is wonderful ... if we can add human grade vitamins found up here.... or in europe etc...
something like 4swerlz vitamin mix .... that she gave us the recipe for a while ago... (that go into the homemade blocks)....
could it be that easy though????
could anything else be missing???
(:) ... we might start getting members from russia and china ... and they won't be able to wait for the fv to be delivered either :)...)
you had the esbilac powder go bad on you??? omg...
as for the conditions before it arrives... the only way to check is to mail someone a chocolate bar in the summer... in a zip lock bag:D
I think that would be one way of figuring out what can happen in the mail.... and i don't like to think of medications and baby formulas either....
:thankyou
I agree that it does sound odd gs1.......and what is even more worrisome is that if there IS a problem now with FV, then just what the heck are we supposed to use now? As far as storing the formula....I just always keep the bag in my freezer and scoop out what I need to make that day's formula. I then keep the made up formula in my fridge. In the very back where it stays cooler. I don't recall from her thread but was she adding heavy cream or yogurt to the formula? Because there is always the possibility that one of those were bad.
liz i don't know ..about the yogurt or cream ...it's possible... i just hope she hasn't thrown away the container.....
i was all out to have her check her water supply :D so anything is possible....
it's just her other one ...the older one is fine ....
:grouphug
i just checked she's in florida .... i don't know is it possible that the can/package was left on the porch in the sun???
island rehabber
08-10-2010, 03:53 PM
Let's not assume we have another Pet Ag debacle on our hands only this time with FV, folks. That's called "catastrophizing" :D.
I need to go back and try to read between the lines, but there are many reasons why this can happen besides the basic fact that pinkies are very difficult to keep alive. One of our very good rehabbers here had all her baby bunnies and squirrels getting bloat and diarrhea on FV, because she wasn't refrigerating it. THis person may also have let the FV get too hot before opening it, or it's not being sufficiently refrigerated.
I also think in some areas the water is crap. We are very spoiled in NYC; we have some of the best drinking water on the planet. Not so in other places where mineral imbalances may throw off these babies' digestion.
can i just make sure that three things are obvious...
1. i love fv .... as everyone else does.
2. fv is not easily available to all countries.... there's other countries out there with squirrels...lol.... and overnight shipping is not possible - customs - and affordable... $100 per 2 pounds etc....
3. 4 babies died immediately almost when switched from homemade to fv....
so ... no... i'm not attacking fv... for all the fv people.....
I know IR but something happened and we do need to know....
and as i said above... it's also about not everyone can get fv...
.... i hope she comes back on ....
she had the other one on the older fv formula i think....
it's too important to not worry about.... how can i be an fv pusher if if this is hanging over my head....
:thumbsup :grouphug
and absolutely not!!! not ever !!!! would i see fv as in anyway in any possiblility in the same light as what happened to pet ag... omg!!!!!! 25 baby tigers???? i can't even wrap my head around that!!!!!!!!! well as well as everything else.... :(
this is from one of her posts cause when she started she only stated as having one squirrel ...
I am raising my 25th baby squirrel. I have always used esbilac on my babies and am very new to hearing about the fox valley formula. What has been happening with the babies on esbilac? Even though I haven't experienced any problems other than my last few babies had an episode of diarrhea that we worked through with water and goats milk before returning to esbilac a few days later, but I want the best for my little guys. What was the experience with the esbilac, and why is fox valley better? Is there any other type along with fox valley that is now recommended as well? Just wanting to know how to best take care of my babies and if there is an alternative in an emergency situation etc. Do you still mix fox valley at a 1:2 ratio? Thanks so much everyone. Little Charlie thanks you too :Love_Icon
I doubt FV was the cause.
I have a hunch there is some other information missing.
sorry skul... i wasn't ignoring you ... I didn't see you ......
I hope so too ....
microwave maybe???
maybe it can't be microwaved????
maybe each batch must be freshly made...???
mpetys
08-10-2010, 06:06 PM
I think we need to be careful to not jump the gun on blaming the Fox Valley formula unless we have more definitive information. I do think that if there is the slightest concern, that Nick at Fox Valley should be notified. He has a right to know that there is a concern, a possible problem etc. I would hope that the ordubismom would bring her concerns to Nick; if not, then perhaps we can, as a group, relate what we know (that has been posted) and give Nick the opportunity to check it out. Of course, it would help to have more information from ordubismom such as any lot numbers or when and where she purchased it.
From my own personal experience with losing three babies on Ebsilac and having the fourth survive and thrive on Fox Valley, I would not hesitate to keep using Fox Valley unless there was a proven link that there was something wrong with the product. I know from my experience that while I keep my opened product in the freezer, I have left it out on the counter out of carelessness; luckily I caught it so it wasn't for long. I used to warm my formula in the microwave until I read that others said not to do that; warm it in a cup of heated water. Another possibility is if the syringe was completely cleaned in between uses. I say this not to imply that someone else did this but to say that it has happened to me that I thought a syringe was thoroughly cleaned and upon closer examination, found that there was bits of old formula still there. It is so easy to get careless or to be in a hurry. I say this from personal experience.
So, I am hoping that with the help of ordubismom, we can look at this from every angle to see what could have contributed. One thing I wonder is if the water was well water or city water. We are on well water and earlier this year I found out from my vet that when the aquifer got low (due to all the farmers running their sprinklers during out exceptionally cold nights), it meant that there was a higher amount of limestone in the water. He said that vets in the area were having an unusually high amount of cats and dogs come in with kidney problems. He urged us to use distilled water or to use a water filter for our drinking water. I guess it would stand to reason that if it was a concern for dogs and cats, then it would be just as much, if not more, for smaller animals, such as our squirrels, rabbits, birds etc. Of course, we are not having that problem now but I use it as an example of how we have to examine everything.
Michele in Tampa
lilbitsquirrely
08-10-2010, 10:35 PM
:thinking I just picked up four baby boy squirrels today at a little before 6:00 pm.I just started the FV.I bought it in the spring of this year,it says its good until June 2011,I also live in Florida,but I keep it in the Freezer and make just enough for two feedings at a time and keep it in the refrigerator.Is there something I need to know about?Should I go back to the homemade I use to make.I raised 9 grays and one Flying squirrel on the homemade,and never had any problems.I just thought I would get the FV and have it on hand since TSB members recommended it so highly. Please let me know what I should do now.I do not want to loose any of these new babies.:nono
hi mpetys/lbs....
just quickly ....
I have to apologize for alarming you.
fv is still the number one choice for anyone living in the u.s.
i am still hoping to hear from ordubismom.... something happened and we need to know what ... but right now we don't have answers....
if i was in florida i'd still use it ... and just about everyone on this board will tell you the same thing....
mpetys: i'd love to say something to nick when there's something to tell him...
so am hoping to hear from ordubismom ...
as for people living outside the u.s. i still think we need something ... unless fv can be distributed up here...
fv is inexpensive, good quality and very convenient if you live in the u.s.
I just wish i knew what happened with those other 4 babies... what is the thing that we don't know???
:grouphug
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