~+~ Worse Than Yesterday ~+~

[spykitten01]

My babies are worse than ever. I was only able to find powdered goats milk last night and it hasnt seemed to make any difference. In fact, they are more emaciated than ever. The greasy diarrhea has not improved. They are starting to get a little lethargic and they now are starting to look like little furry skeletons. This is horrible. I knew I shouldve brought them to a vet ASAP yesterday, but against my better judgement, I just went and changed the formula. Now Im afraid Im going to lose them and/or that theyre too far gone to be rehabilitated. I am so upset right now. I have put hundreds of dollars and three and a half weeks of no sleep and no social life into these babies and if it was all for nothing, I will be devastated. I am trying so hard. And I love them so much. I dont just want to give them to a rehab center or hand them off to someone else - I want to be with them as long as Im able. I just wish I had some help.

[island rehabber]

spykitten01, here's the only thing you can try to do with them at this point. Feed them small amounts EVERY HOUR or at least every 90 MINUTES for the rest of the day. Get some Kaopectate and put ONE DROP, and I mean ONE teeny drop, in each one's mouth this morning and no more after that -- it will help to stop the deadly diarrhea. Keep giving them something throughout the day in those small increments, every hour. If they are going to turn a corner, it will take at least 12-24 hrs to see improvement. This has been my experience with emaciation. But do the Kaopectate: it's not the greatest solution but, as they say in the Emergency First Responder manual, when death is imminent try anything.

[spykitten01]

Feed them small amounts of WHAT? Ive asked now if powdered goats milk is acceptable for the time being two or three times with no reply - and Im afraid to feed then when theyre so dehydrated. How much should I be feeding them? I ordered the fox valley yesterday and tried contacting them and was unable to.

Im sorry if Im being snappish right now, but Im very emotional. And if I lose them now because I went against my better judgement and listened to 90% of everyone on here yesterday who said it was just a diet issue, I am going to be so upset it isnt even funny.

[CritterMom]

I know you have gotten a lot of suggestions. If these babies have a bug, they need antibiotics, and I can't help with that...but am I nuts or were they already ON antibiotics? I am thinking that if they don't have a bug, what may have happened is that the antibiotics have messed with the good bacteria in their tummy and that is causing the diarrhea.

Can you get to a big pet store chain like Petco? If so, call around and find out if they have Bene-bac (or any brand of beneficial bacteria) for mammals, get it, and add it to the formula.

Furthermore, I would follow Jackie's recipe for the goats milk - add the full milk yogurt and the heavy cream to it. I know you have been councilled to take the yogurt out but it also brings beneficial bacteria in addition to the additional fat they need.

When you are out buying the bebe-bac, pick up a bottle of KAOPECTATE - and only kaopectate. Give each baby ONE DROP.

Make your self some rehydrating fluid - either buy some pedialyte or mix 1 TEASPOON salt, 3 TABLESPOONS sugar and 1 QUART water - keep in fridge but feed warm like formula. I would rehydrate them for a while by adding in a feeding of the rehydration formula IN BETWEEN the regular formula feedings.

You may need to play with the length of time between feedings - slightly less food fed slightly more often may be better for these guys...

Also, make sure they stay nice and warm. Their container is on a heating pad, I hope?

Please don't throw in the towel, but go do AT LEAST the kaopectate right away.

[island rehabber]

You probably didn't get an answer about the powdered goat's milk because nobody was sure -- I've never had experience with it, myself -- and didn't want to give you the wrong advice. It happens when you're not dealing with vets or experts, just squirrel-loving peeps. :)
OK let's back up a moment. Since they are dehydrated, let's first get them hydration PLUS the Kaopectate. Either Pedialyte or homemade Pedialyte is fine -- 1 qt warm water, 3 tablesp sugar, 1.5 teaspoon salt...mix well Give them all they will take. Let's plump them up with hydration and then see about the goat's milk. You may want to add full-fat yogurt or heavy whipping cream to that goat's milk per Jackie in Tampa's recipe. If anyone else has better experience with the goat's milk, PLEASE chime in here.

In the meantime, Kao and hydration -- and prayers. :thumbsup:)

[CritterMom]

IR is a faster typist...

[Jackie in Tampa]

get slimmy poop and take that to vet...this could be parasites...do as IR has said...she is a very wise woman...
order the Fox Valley, that is priority...
warmth, do not let them chill, hold them with a rice buddy while feeding them....they are not strong enough to control their own body temp...
tap water a few drops at a time
every grocery store sells goatsmilk, either fresh next to milk in a carton like milk, or next to the evaporated milk in cans...
add yogurt...not the heavy cream yet....
is anyone clicking with evrybreath?
I am sending my most powerful good vibes to you and sending prayers for God to help you with them...
I feel your love and pain...
Nick will overnight the formula...if money is an issue, say so, we can help you...
the proper meds for sqs with cochidia are sulfa based, SMZ-TMP and albon
the meds for giardia are flagyl/metronizadole
call vet and ask if the will screen diarehha...for parasites...do not take the sqs unless they can be kept warm entire time. good luck

[island rehabber]

Im sorry if Im being snappish right now, but Im very emotional. And if I lose them now because I went against my better judgement and listened to 90% of everyone on here yesterday who said it was just a diet issue, I am going to be so upset it isnt even funny.

You do understand that you are in an illegal state (MN) to be keeping wildlife without a rehabilitator's license? You cannot just "bring them to a vet". We all wish it was that easy, but only in Florida and West Virginia are you "allowed" to have squirrels and take them to vets for treatment.
Just want to clarify this so you don't kill yourself with the "should haves" . :peace

[spykitten01]

Im so torn - I shouldnt do pedialyte anymore I dont think - Theyve been off and on it for over 48 hours and I dont want to overdo the sodium.

Im torn though because I know they need to be hydrated in order to digest properly, but theyre so emaciated Im afraid THAT will kill them.

And only one was on antibiotics - the one that is the worst atm, but the other one has the same symptoms. Im thinking this is giradia because that wouldnt be cleared up by antibiotics and their poop smells so icky.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Critter and IR are fasrer typers ...
hang in there sweetie ,sqs are our priority and we want to help you...and them!
hugs and love to you

[CritterMom]

Continue to rehydrate them but just do it with sugar water - omit the salt.

[spykitten01]

You do understand that you are in an illegal state (MN) to be keeping wildlife without a rehabilitator's license? You cannot just "bring them to a vet". We all wish it was that easy, but only in Florida and West Virginia are you "allowed" to have squirrels and take them to vets for treatment.
Just want to clarify this so you don't kill yourself with the "should haves" . :peace



__________________________________________________ _______________



I know that - Im actually CURRENTLY in WI near Milwaukee, but I found a vet back home that will treat them without giving me trouble. I just dont know of any here. And Im afraid if its giardia like I expect, I will lose them in the next few days without prompt treatment.

[spykitten01]

Continue to rehydrate them but just do it with sugar water - omit the salt.






Wont sugar worsen the diarrhea????

[spykitten01]

Critter and IR are fasrer typers ...
hang in there sweetie ,sqs are our priority and we want to help you...and them!
hugs and love to you





thank you... =/

[Jackie in Tampa]

Im so torn - I shouldnt do pedialyte anymore I dont think - Theyve been off and on it for over 48 hours and I dont want to overdo the sodium.

Im torn though because I know they need to be hydrated in order to digest properly, but theyre so emaciated Im afraid THAT will kill them.

And only one was on antibiotics - the one that is the worst atm, but the other one has the same symptoms. Im thinking this is giradia because that wouldnt be cleared up by antibiotics and their poop smells so icky.
what ABs were they on?
that too can be a cause for decline


cillans are bad news and hard on upper GI...they need yogurt NOW...add it to some water to dilute enough to allow them to drink from syringe...make sure it is warm...do not let these babies get cold at all....cold is serious at this point...
if they are skin and bones, hydration can be from anything wet...are they peeing still...?

[Jackie in Tampa]

Wont sugar worsen the diarrhea???? yes...dilute whole milk yogurt plain is going to be best at this poiunt...it will help gut flora and digestion issues as well as giive nutrition and hydration...
but like IR has said at this point we n must try all and anything and monitor exactly what their reactions are...I am a lousy typer and late for work...my number is 813-541-8029if I can assist anymore, although these woman are sharp and will help you ...:grouphug

[spykitten01]

get slimmy poop and take that to vet...this could be parasites...do as IR has said...she is a very wise woman...
order the Fox Valley, that is priority...
warmth, do not let them chill, hold them with a rice buddy while feeding them....they are not strong enough to control their own body temp...
tap water a few drops at a time
every grocery store sells goatsmilk, either fresh next to milk in a carton like milk, or next to the evaporated milk in cans...
add yogurt...not the heavy cream yet....
is anyone clicking with evrybreath?
I am sending my most powerful good vibes to you and sending prayers for God to help you with them...
I feel your love and pain...
Nick will overnight the formula...if money is an issue, say so, we can help you...
the proper meds for sqs with cochidia are sulfa based, SMZ-TMP and albon
the meds for giardia are flagyl/metronizadole
call vet and ask if the will screen diarehha...for parasites...do not take the sqs unless they can be kept warm entire time. good luck




Theyre not clicking, no, though the sicker of the two aspirates almost every time I feed her, no matter how slow I go, and has from the beginning.

And unfortunately, money IS an issue right now. My 3 mo old sheltie pup has a broken leg, Im out of town at the moment (5hrs - and I get 14-15mpg), I have to go out of town again in a few weeks for my cousins wedding, and I may be losing my job. Not to mention that Ive already spent around $150 on my little girls in the last two or three weeks in vet bills and supplies.

How quickly will metro take to kick in?

[spykitten01]

what ABs were they on?
that too can be a cause for decline


cillans are bad news and hard on upper GI...they need yogurt NOW...add it to some water to dilute enough to allow them to drink from syringe...make sure it is warm...do not let these babies get cold at all....cold is serious at this point...
if they are skin and bones, hydration can be from anything wet...are they peeing still...?




The little one was on Sulfatrim .05ml 2xdaily


And they are peeing like mad - especially the little sick one.

[spykitten01]

yes...dilute whole milk yogurt plain is going to be best at this poiunt...it will help gut flora and digestion issues as well as giive nutrition and hydration...
but like IR has said at this point we n must try all and anything and monitor exactly what their reactions are...I am a lousy typer and late for work...my number is 813-541-8029if I can assist anymore, although these woman are sharp and will help you ...:grouphug




Thank You very much, Jackie

[spykitten01]

So should I get the probiotics mentioned earlier AND yogurt?

[Jackie in Tampa]

The little one was on Sulfatrim .05ml 2xdaily


And they are peeing like mad - especially the little sick one.
everything is still working:thumbsup
they need very diluted nutrition if emciated as you say...can we get pics posted?
drop by drop counts...go slow...
sulfa trim is good...and safe

[spykitten01]

everything is still working:thumbsup
they need very diluted nutrition if emciated as you say...can we get pics posted?
drop by drop counts...go slow...
sulfa trim is good...and safe



thats why we went with that AB - I dont have a camera but I can try and see if I can get something up with my phone? =/


Just called the vet to see if theyd check the poop for giardia - they said theyd need to know what kind of animal and when i told them, they said they wouldnt do it =(

[CritterMom]

thats why we went with that AB - I dont have a camera but I can try and see if I can get something up with my phone? =/


Just called the vet to see if theyd check the poop for giardia - they said theyd need to know what kind of animal and when i told them, they said they wouldnt do it =(


Call another vet and tell them it is a rat.

[spykitten01]

Call another vet and tell them it is a rat.




did and they said they would have to see my "rat" to dispense medication

[virgo062]

Just peeping in on the babies....How are they this morning?

[CritterMom]

The bebebac will get more of it on board faster than the yogurt will. You can't actually have too much - the body just gets rid of it. If you do the kaopectate it might stop the diarrhea fast and you can use the yogurt.

[spykitten01]

pretty bad, virgo - im gonna try and go get a pic of them on my phone to see if i can figure out how to upload real quick...


all the vets are saying theyd need to see my "rats" in order to dispense meds - so i called and left a message at MY vet asking if I got a diagnosis with a fecal float if he would call in an Rx for me somewhere out here for me to pick up. my vet isnt in for another 1/2 hr though, as they dont open till 9 - hopefully ill hear back from him soon.

[spykitten01]

The bebebac will get more of it on board faster than the yogurt will. You can't actually have too much - the body just gets rid of it. If you do the kaopectate it might stop the diarrhea fast and you can use the yogurt.




okay, ill get both then - thank you - im going to make a list...

[spykitten01]

should i give lactated ringers orally if i can find some?

[spykitten01]

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo31/2a/4f/80b41c6710cd__1281418800000.jpeg

[spykitten01]

the one on the right only looks more robust because shes curled up and i just gave them as much as they would take fluid-wise about 60-90 min ago

[Gina]

Sending prayers and good vibes for your little ones:grouphug

[virgo062]

Maybe it's the picture but I was expecting worse...They really don't look that bad from here.:grouphug don't give up:grouphug

[CritterMom]

Yeah, not nearly as bad as the babies Nancy has now were.

I am hoping that the kaopectate, and then small, numerous feedings of the Jackie formula with all of the yogurt and cream added in will bring them around. Slow and steady.

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

did and they said they would have to see my "rat" to dispense medication

Did you call the vets I listed in your original thread yesterday. They are exotic vets and treat exotic animals. They should be willing to treat them.

[spykitten01]

Did you call the vets I listed in your original thread yesterday. They are exotic vets and treat exotic animals. They should be willing to treat them.


I called the 262 area code one - they said they wouldnt see squirrels at all


my vet gave me another vet name, one he knows personally and said to tell her im his client and hopefully shed help me out

[spykitten01]

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo01/cd/8d/617d9d1257ab__1281422784000.jpeg


heres another pic of my sicker baby


i cannot find any vets that will see them =(

[spykitten01]

I found a vet that will see them - THANK GOD - its at an emergency clinic, so Im sure it will be ungodly expensive, which worries me in my current situation, but I have to go - my little girls deserve the best I can give them

[spykitten01]

I really really really hate to ask this - but if I need it, would anyone be willing to help me with the cost at all? Like I said, I may be losing my job soon =(

[CritterMom]

The people here are very generous...

I hate to say this but most vets don't really know much about squirrels. They CAN check for parasites, though, and this is what you need. Please come back and tell us what they have recommended before you actually do it, okay?

[nnmaru1]

spykit, i'd love to leave a small donation for your squirrel babies.

just PM me your paypal address.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

The pictures of your babies are a photo copy of what I went through last year, They had all the same issues as your babies peeing more than normal. Smelly bm's ect. Get them on powdered goat milk or what ever you can get asap. Get you fox valley ordered.
They are going to test positive for coccidia, as soon as you get the correct formula going it will correct itself. Coccidia will break out when the imune system is down, once they are getting the proper formula you will see a diffrence in them in 24-36 hours. :thumbsup
A formula that the babies once thrived on now kills them, Its madening. Good luck with them I know you issues will resolve.

[Secret Squirrel]

I can help too through paypal..or with the vet. Just let me know who to contact at the vets office.:thumbsup


spykit, i'd love to leave a small donation for your squirrel babies.

just PM me your paypal address.

[spykitten01]

I can help too through paypal..or with the vet. Just let me know who to contact at the vets office.:thumbsup




That would be a HUGE help - I spent a few hundred dollars on the little peanuts today - Its worth it, but I spent about half of what I have in my bank account =/

My paypal addy is aspychalla01@hamline.edu


You all are so wonderfully helpful - I cant thank you enough!

[spykitten01]

As an update...


....We went to the vet today - the only vet that would see them was an Emergency Vet, so it was very spendy - but she was wonderful and came highly recommended. The fecal float was inconclusive on giardiasis - but she said thats not uncommon and that often youll see it in one slide and not in the next. She did suspect they had it. They also found quite a number of bad bacteria and bugs in their lil mushy poopies. They got put on .01ml of Metro 2xdaily for treatment, which will take care of the giardia AND the bacteria. I also got an application and Im going to turn it in along with my resume tomorrow =)

As for food, I contacted the guy (Nick?) at Fox Valley today and he was also incredibly nice. Hopefully I will have my formula by sometime tomorrow. For the meantime, I took a trip to the grocery store. Apparently nobody around here sells liquid goats milk in any form whatsoever, so I will have to stick to the powdered form until the FV gets here. I got Dannon plain full fat yogurt and Kemps heavy whipping cream. I mixed 3tsp goat + 3Tbsp warm water + 1tspn yogurt + 1tspn whip + a pinch of Benebac powdered small animal probiotic I got at Petco. I also got them a pair of fleecy small animal beds to snuggle in and a low wattage heat red heat lamp to make sure they stay warm if I dont get a chance to reset their heater on the two-hour mark when it auto-offs. I also got a bag of lactated ringers from the vet to give orally instead of pedialyte or plain tap water. And I gave them each a single droplet of kaopectate.

Just now I gave them their meds, then 1cc each of lactated ringers, followed by ALMOST as much as they wanted of the formula mix, followed by the drop of kao. I got a little bit of poop out and it didnt seem quite as bad as it has been. They ate with gusto and peed excessively.

Keep your fingers crossed and your prayers to the wind - Im thinking of taking short naps tonight as opposed to taking my sleep meds and only getting up 1-3 times during the night to feed so I can work on fattening them up tonight.

And again, the proffered donations are very very very welcome. Im in a very tough situation right now, but I refuse to sacrifice the health, comfort and happiness of my babies - life is more important than bills, right? =) LoL

I cannot express enough my gratitude for everyones help with all this, in whichever form you gave. Youve all been a Godsend. I just wish I wouldve discovered this wonderful resource 3 1/2 weeks ago when I found the little scamps.

Im taking a leap of faith and have decided to give them REAL names (instead of Fussy and Prissy) - Im now going to call them Reilly and Willow - Reilly being my big, noisy, excitable girl and Willow being my sickly, quiet, clingy little one.

When I get the FV, should I still mix the yogurt, heavy whipping cream and probiotics with that formula?

[spykitten01]

The pictures of your babies are a photo copy of what I went through last year, They had all the same issues as your babies peeing more than normal. Smelly bm's ect. Get them on powdered goat milk or what ever you can get asap. Get you fox valley ordered.
They are going to test positive for coccidia, as soon as you get the correct formula going it will correct itself. Coccidia will break out when the imune system is down, once they are getting the proper formula you will see a diffrence in them in 24-36 hours. :thumbsup
A formula that the babies once thrived on now kills them, Its madening. Good luck with them I know you issues will resolve.



hopefully everything will be on the mend with them now...fingers crossed and thanks for the good luck

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Great news. You now have a better idea of what they do/do not have. Thanks for the update.

[CritterMom]

Everything you do with these guys needs to be G-R-A-D-U-A-L. When you get the FV, don't do an immediate change over. Make up a container each of the FV formula and the goats milk/yogurt/cream formula. Start at 75% goatsmilk / 25% FV. Do that for several feedings and if all goes well, go to 50/50 for several feedings, and so on. I would take a day + to completely change them over if they were mine.

Also: FV "sticks to their ribs" more than other milk replacers. They won't need to be fed as often with the FV. You need to pay attention to the condition of their tummies, not the clock at first, because you don't want to feed them if they have only digested half of their last meal, or they will bloat. I know you want to do the Italian mama thing - "eat, eat:poke " with them but resist the urge!!

Do you have CVS drugstores where you live? The cheapest, bottom of the line heating pad CVS sells is about $13-$15 and has NO AUTO SHUTOFF. The lights are not a very good way to keep them warm - direct bottom heat is the way to go.

When you have a few minutes, go to "Magenta's Babies" in the Nursery section and read the entire thread and look at both the pics attached to the thread and the ones that appear as part of the thread. This is what slow and steady can do - these nubbins were in worse shape that your babies.

[Jackie in Tampa]

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo31/2a/4f/80b41c6710cd__1281418800000.jpeg
they're beauties...lucky you!
Central is sending good vibes...
I would not mix all the probotics...one or the other...
I always use yogurt and heavy cream and I seldom have any issues...
hope these littles turn the corner and chunk up!
Thank you...

[spykitten01]

asg - yes, i am glad i took them in, thank you


crittermom - i do and i will look into it - im going with a combo of both right now - they seem to be liking it but ill see what i can find. and ill be sure to adjust them slowly. again, thank you for the advice


jackie - i feel like theyre starting to turn the corner - its a bit early to tell, but i just have a good feeling about all this right now - thank goodness!



Willow and Reilly still had a little diarrhea this morning to I gave them each one more tiny drop of kao and a little bit ago, Willow had a VERY TINY poop, but it was closer to normal than Ive seen in about a week. Hopefully the FV will be here today, tomorrow at the latest. In the meantime, they really seem to like the homemade mixture and are eating with gusto. Theyve had two doses of metro so far - fingers crossed!


Ill keep updating frequently so you all know how theyre doing and Ill try and get some more pics later if I remember. A big thank you again to the two of you who donated, and if anybody else is interested, please let me know or send me a PM. Ill take all the help I can get right now as Ill probably be living off of about $300 for the next month. I dont want to sound like I am begging but my family has been giving me a lot of grief about spending all this money on these little guys. I think its totally worth it, but knowing my situation, theyre concerned.


I hope youre all having a wonderful Wednesday =)

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

I just sent a contribution on the vet bill.

[spykitten01]

:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou

[spykitten01]

My little sick Willow (with a full tummy and getting drowsy):


https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo03/43/33/61243dafff43__1281533213000.jpeg



The girls napping after their first meal with a bit of FV added in - They like their new fleecy small animal beds I got them to snuggle in =)


https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo25/7e/98/7c7e52c87104__1281528406000.jpeg



I took both of these about 2 hours ago - the road to recovery is still long, but I think weve finally gotten their little paws on the right path...


:jump

[nnmaru1]

:thumbsup SK, they are precious!!!!!!!

glad to hear they are better and keeping fingers crossed.

aww, look at them sleeping in the little fleece beds...

we had same one for Junior... he would sleep either next to, or UNDER it.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Once that fv is flowing things will turn around quick for them!:thumbsup
Heating pad is a must!

[spykitten01]

:thumbsup SK, they are precious!!!!!!!

glad to hear they are better and keeping fingers crossed.

aww, look at them sleeping in the little fleece beds...

we had same one for Junior... he would sleep either next to, or UNDER it.



haha yeah - they usually sleep inside them for about 20 min after feeding and then they migrate around a bit before settling down again

my sweet little troopers - their personalities are such opposites - Reilly is vocal and excitable and feisty and little Willow is sweet and clingy (she always wants to hug my fingers and when shes done eating, shell cuddle into my hand, hug my finger and just gaze at me quietly until she dozes off). So precious...

[spykitten01]

Once that fv is flowing things will turn around quick for them!:thumbsup



I hope so! I just added a teaspoon into their goats milk mix with some extra water for the last feeding - that stuff is pretty thick lol - they seemed to really like it. It smells good, too =)


Just a couple quick questions:

1) Is there such a thing as a feeding coma or feeding seizures? Ive read vague references to these in some places, and if they do exist, then Reilly definitely does it. When shes feeding, she'll push her little arms as far out as she can get them and lock them in place, open her mouth really wide and wiggle her tongue and just keep doing this until i brusquely massage her face. Is this something I should be worried about?

2) Why do you think Willow urinates so excessively? Shes way smaller than Reilly but she pees about 5 times as much.

3) How can you tell the difference between a bloated tummy and a full tummy?

4) Reilly had a bit of urine burn/irritation around her groin/anus/inner thigh area so Ive been applying some Vaseline to the area to help soothe it. Now, however, she has taken to cleaning herself whenever I do this and trying to lick it all off. Will this hurt her in any way? Are there any better suggestions?

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

I had the same siguation with the esbilac the babies always appeared to be dehydrated they were so thin and wrinkled. I had no clue what was going on and this was before the whole thing exploded and we found out what esbilac had done to their product. Had I not kept rehydrating them in between the esbilac I dont believe mine would have made it. I dont believe you have done any wrong with the rehydration, but you will see they wont need it soon.

[spykitten01]

I had the same siguation with the esbilac the babies always appeared to be dehydrated they were so thin and wrinkled. I had no clue what was going on and this was before the whole thing exploded and we found out what esbilac had done to their product. Had I not kept rehydrating them in between the esbilac I dont believe mine would have made it. I dont believe you have done any wrong with the rehydration, but you will see they wont need it soon.



Yeah - these girls have pulled through a lot against all odds. Ill have to load up the one pic I took when I found them so you can all see how tiny and young they were. And after falling 60ft onto hard ground in a horrible storm and then being exposed for almost 24hrs before I found them....It seems everything was against them. I just wish I couldve saved their other siblings, but unfortunately it wasnt meant to be =(

[lizharrell1]

I hope so! I just added a teaspoon into their goats milk mix with some extra water for the last feeding - that stuff is pretty thick lol - they seemed to really like it. It smells good, too =)


Just a couple quick questions:

1) Is there such a thing as a feeding coma or feeding seizures? Ive read vague references to these in some places, and if they do exist, then Reilly definitely does it. When shes feeding, she'll push her little arms as far out as she can get them and lock them in place, open her mouth really wide and wiggle her tongue and just keep doing this until i brusquely massage her face. Is this something I should be worried about?

2) Why do you think Willow urinates so excessively? Shes way smaller than Reilly but she pees about 5 times as much.

3) How can you tell the difference between a bloated tummy and a full tummy?

4) Reilly had a bit of urine burn/irritation around her groin/anus/inner thigh area so Ive been applying some Vaseline to the area to help soothe it. Now, however, she has taken to cleaning herself whenever I do this and trying to lick it all off. Will this hurt her in any way? Are there any better suggestions?
What you are describing in #1 is called "gaping" or "guppy mouth". Rest assured they aren't having seizures. I freaked out with the first baby I had that did that and I was just sure that something was wrong with them. Folks on here can give you hints on things to do to lessen the behavior....I need to hear them again too, because once again I have ANOTHER baby doing the same darned thing. They just seem to go into a trance while nursing, but it IS pretty retarded looking!!!!
Your kids look great!! Keep up the good work!

[spykitten01]

What you are describing in #1 is called "gaping" or "guppy mouth". Rest assured they aren't having seizures. I freaked out with the first baby I had that did that and I was just sure that something was wrong with them. Folks on here can give you hints on things to do to lessen the behavior....I need to hear them again too, because once again I have ANOTHER baby doing the same darned thing. They just seem to go into a trance while nursing, but it IS pretty retarded looking!!!!
Your kids look great!! Keep up the good work!


Okay, thank you - sometimes its worse than others and when its really bad, I get a bit alarmed. I wonder why they do it. Hmmm....

And do squirrels have any tonsil-like structures? I swear Willow aspirates almost every time I feed her no matter how slow I go - shes been like that ever since the beginning, hence why she was on Sulfatrim before. The poor little mite.

[spykitten01]

This was one of the bigger babies when I first found them - their umbillical caps were all still on and just starting to detach.


https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo03/5a/f3/29c60cb56164__1281536019000.jpeg

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k93/margaretmowery_2006/014.jpg?t=1281562997 heres my babies when they were pinkies they were a mess, and it got worse at aout 8 weeks they came down with mange because their systems were so run down from the esbilac.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k93/margaretmowery_2006/009-1.jpg?t=1281563465

I dont mean to hyjack your thread, but I just want to show what esbilac does to squirrels.

[spykitten01]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k93/margaretmowery_2006/014.jpg?t=1281562997 heres my babies when they were pinkies they were a mess, and it got worse at aout 8 weeks they came down with mange because their systems were so run down from the esbilac.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k93/margaretmowery_2006/009-1.jpg?t=1281563465

I dont mean to hyjack your thread, but I just want to show what esbilac does to squirrels.



Poor little babies - and its fine about the thread thing, I dont mind =) So you found five too, huh? Big litters...

[Gina]

Just checking in on you and your little babies:grouphug

[CritterMom]

Mister P used to "guppy" like a madman - he was still doing it as a strapping 18 week old. I used to blow a little puff of air in his face and that usually snapped him out of it - if not, I would gently tap on top of his head with my fingertip and he would suddenly snap out of it. I called it "The Formula Zone."

[spykitten01]

Just checking in on you and your little babies:grouphug



Seem to be doing better now - thank you, Gina =)

[spykitten01]

Mister P used to "guppy" like a madman - he was still doing it as a strapping 18 week old. I used to blow a little puff of air in his face and that usually snapped him out of it - if not, I would gently tap on top of his head with my fingertip and he would suddenly snap out of it. I called it "The Formula Zone."




Nice - I like it. The only thing that seems to work with her though is vigorously rubbing her face with both sides of the feeding towel. Its just creepy how still they get. Sometimes I can even move her all over the place and its like shes made of stone.

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

I tap them on the top of the head and most time that works. Sometimes, you can move the nipple inside of their gaping mouth to tap the insides of each cheek and that works too.

[spykitten01]

I tap them on the top of the head and most time that works. Sometimes, you can move the nipple inside of their gaping mouth to tap the insides of each cheek and that works too.



sometimes shell stop if i turn the syringe sideways and rub the shaft back and forth in her gaping maw until she sucks on it lol

[Secret Squirrel]

Are you using a nipple on the syringe ??? It dosent sound like you are and it's better for them to suckle as nature intended.
You can get the "mothers silicone nipples" at Chris squirrels and more. You and babies will be glad you did. This will help with the "aspiration" as you call it. I think it's just milk coming out of her nose.

True aspiration is silent and fills the lungs with fluid usually there is little to no milk coming through the nasal passage. Then the lungs develope bacteria and that's when pnumonia sets in.

http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/

[spykitten01]

Are you using a nipple on the syringe ??? It dosent sound like you are and it's better for them to suckle as nature intended.
You can get the "mothers silicone nipples" at Chris squirrels and more. You and babies will be glad you did. This will help with the "aspiration" as you call it. I think it's just milk coming out of her nose.

True aspiration is silent and fills the lungs with fluid usually there is little to no milk coming through the nasal passage. Then the lungs develope bacteria and that's when pnumonia sets in.

http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/



I dont have any nipples, but I will look into getting them - especially now, since Reilly likes to try and deep-throat the syringe as much as she can :shakehead

Silly little boogers... And yeah, it is just through her nose. She gets little sneezies because of it, but shes already been on antibiotics so Im not too worried about it ATM.

I also gave them their first exposure to solids - put a few plain squares of shredded wheat and a little bit of dried oatmeal in there to nibble on. Reilly was enamoured with the shredded wheat - gumming it with gusto - Willow was not so impressed. She chose a square, hugged it, and fell asleep LoL

[Secret Squirrel]

Since you are getting nipples, get some rodent blocks and primate chow for nibbling food. Get the used to those and you won't have food issues later.
I put rodent block in with them 24/7 and have NEVER had a baby who wouldn't eat it. They will pee on it so it needs to be changed out daily. They will chew at first and then start eating it as they develop back teeth.
You can get the rodent block..aka..rodent or rat food at Petco, Petsmart or other local pet stores. Kaytee, Forti, or LM Farms is OK. But Masuri is what Chris has...they are better than the petstore variety.
But get them ASAP and cut out the "other stuff" which I call junk...LOL!!!!
It sounds like they are doing much better...:thumbsup

[spykitten01]

Since you are getting nipples, get some rodent blocks and primate chow for nibbling food. Get the used to those and you won't have food issues later.
I put rodent block in with them 24/7 and have NEVER had a baby who wouldn't eat it. They will pee on it so it needs to be changed out daily. They will chew at first and then start eating it as they develop back teeth.
You can get the rodent block..aka..rodent or rat food at Petco, Petsmart or other local pet stores. Kaytee, Forti, or LM Farms is OK. But Masuri is what Chris has...they are better than the petstore variety.
But get them ASAP and cut out the "other stuff" which I call junk...LOL!!!!
It sounds like they are doing much better...:thumbsup


Yeah, I wasnt planning on giving that to them longterm - more just to see if they were interested. They dont have their top incisors yet - Would rodent block be too hard for them until they break through?

[Secret Squirrel]

Yeah, I wasnt planning on giving that to them longterm - more just to see if they were interested. They dont have their top incisors yet - Would rodent block be too hard for them until they break through?

Not at all. I put the blocks in just as soon as thier eyes open. This way the get to know what it is and you will always have good food in thier nest.
They will gnaw it and make a "beach" in the bottom of the blankets and then learn to eat it once the back teeth develope.
Thier poop will darken when they start injesting the rodent block. I don't use FV so I don't know what FV poops color is.

[spykitten01]

okay =) thanks for the heads up!

[island rehabber]

They will gnaw it and make a "beach" in the bottom of the blankets and then learn to eat it once the back teeth develope.
Thier poop will darken when they start injesting the rodent block. I don't use FV so I don't know what FV poops color is.

:rotflthat's such a great description -- it does look like a beach!

FV poops generally run from dark orange to light orange to dark yellow.

[spykitten01]

FV poops generally run from dark orange to light orange to dark yellow.
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


that would explain why the most recent tiny poop was so dark compared to normal... how long can they go without a significant poop before i have to worry?

[spykitten01]

and how do you tell the difference between a full tummy and a bloaty belly?

[spykitten01]

UPDATE!!!!


Willow (the sicker of the two) just had her first normal squirrel poopie in over a week! And LOTS of it! =D Reilly is still going very small, yellow, mushy amounts, but the meds and diet change are obviously working!

:jump :wahoo :jump :wahoo :jump

[mudmaiden]

:wahoo So glad to hear!!!!!

[spykitten01]

:wahoo So glad to hear!!!!!



so glad to be able to say! =D now its reillys turn...

[Ronda]

Yay!!:poop ..... normal poopies are always a good thing. Good luck Willow and Reilly

[spykitten01]

Real poops from both the girls! =D They sure had a rough time getting all that out - lots of writhing and squeaking and grunting and flexing and peeing. Poor little poopers are probably sore. I suppose thats what happens when you have mush poo for a week then get put on meds and dont poop properly for 2-3 days. Im sure they feel a heck of a lot better now... I know I do!


:thumbsup

[spykitten01]

Real poops from both the girls! =D They sure had a rough time getting all that out - lots of writhing and squeaking and grunting and flexing and peeing. Poor little poopers are probably sore. I suppose thats what happens when you have mush poo for a week then get put on meds and dont poop properly for 2-3 days. Im sure they feel a heck of a lot better now... I know I do!


:thumbsup


PS - top jumbo cotton ball is from Reilly, the bottom is from Willow - and yes, they ARE jumbo sized cbs

[PDXErik]

Mister P used to "guppy" like a madman - he was still doing it as a strapping 18 week old. I used to blow a little puff of air in his face and that usually snapped him out of it - if not, I would gently tap on top of his head with my fingertip and he would suddenly snap out of it. I called it "The Formula Zone."

Does "guppy" look like they're trying to barf? Totally looking like you have to reach in there and start CPR?

My girl does this while eating. If that is natural, this is totally unnerving.

[island rehabber]

The "guppy mouth" or "fish gaping" or "feeding seizures" is just another part of the Wonderful World of Squirrel Rehab......unnerving, yes, and causing the novice to assume all kinds of horrible things. Once you realize it's normal, you can just tap them on the head or lift up their back legs and 'wheelbarrow' them for a moment to snap them out of it. :D

[Mrs Skul]

:Flag
:wave123 Hi Spykitten
Glad to see all is going well for your little wons.
Fish gaping is unnerving. :eek: It is like a FORMULA ZOMBIE! :rotfl
They just fall asleep while sucking. At lease they are not pulling out formula.
I always thought they would choke! :D
When I pull the nipple out of there mouthes, that is when mine usually wake up.:D
Hang in there! :thumbsup5 Your doing a great job.:thumbsup3