IS cow's milk bad or good?

[fungipami]

I'm confused about a sticky above which appears to be contradictory. Its title is: STOP! NEVER FEED COW'S MILK TO BABY SQUIRRELS!

But it then goes on to recommend a formula that contains cow product (heavy cream and yogurt) and then the Fox Valley formula which contains as top ingredients: Dried Milk Protein, Dried Hydrolyzed Casein, Dried Skimmed Milk.

Could someone explain this discrepancy?
Thanks in advance!
Fungipami

[prncsbabs1]

NEVER USE THE SCALDED MILK RECIPE.

This is from the internet:

"Any professional rehabilitator will tell you that recipe is completely inadequate! It doesn't make any sense - "whole" cow's milk sold in the grocery store isn't whole - it has had the cream scraped off the top and is only 4% fat. It's not even sufficient to raise a cow! Squirrel milk can be as high as 62% fat, so using a 4% fat milk will starve the baby to death. All pasteurized milk has already been heated to destroy bacteria and enzymes are required to digest food."

Below is a link to compare goats milk vs. cow:

http://altmedangel.com/milkcomp.htm

Hope this helps

[fungipami]

Thanks for the comparison to goat's milk, and I'm assuming for the moment that goat's milk contains no negatives, but my question at the moment really is, IS cow's milk bad for baby squirrels?

I'm not sure why scalded milk in particular would be bad, and the sticky says to avoid ALL cow's milk: PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE SQUIRREL COW'S MILK -- SCALDED OR ANY OTHER WAY!! It will cause most squirrel babies to sicken from diarrhea, and then die. It is NOT USED by the vast majority of licensed rehabilitators, wildlife centers or wildlife veterinarians.

A friend has a baby squirrel that was being fed Esbilac and developed diarrhea. When the Esbilac was stopped the diarrhea stopped. I just noticed that Esbilac contains "natural milk protein" as a primary ingredient! That's cow's milk, isn't it?

I think my friend has ordered the Fox Valley formula. But the Fox Valley formula also contains cow's milk! So if the culprit is cow's milk, how would that formula be any better?

fungipami

[prncsbabs1]

Yes, cow milk is bad for squirrels; they can not digest it..

It has to do with the fat percentage and also all the enzymes and bacteria they need to properly digest it are not there after it has been pasteurized.

[island rehabber]

Again, the percentage of fat is woefully insufficient in cow's milk processed for humans. Baby squirrels raised on the scalded milk recipe have a horrible survival rate, regardless of what "some" will spout on their websites. :shakehead

Esbilac was perfectly fine for baby squirrels before Oct 2008 when Pet Ag changed the manufacturing process. Baby bunnies and squirrels began presenting with horrid diarrhea and then death shortly after. It wasn't until summer of 2009 that rehabbers began putting two and two together - it was the Esbilac.

The biggest problem is that cow's milk is cheap and formula is not. So long as one website out there tells the public that they can buy a $1.50 quart of milk instead of an $18.00 can of Fox Valley, baby squirrels will be doomed.

[fungipami]

Thank you for the info. So you are saying that it is not that cow's milk is harmful per se, but that it is lacking in some vital ingredients, such as enough of the right kind of fat?

Can you tell me what the change in the formula was that caused the problem (or point me to a thread that explains it)?

Thanks!

Fungipami

[prncsbabs1]

Look for the thread "THE ESBILAC ISSUE" by IR

[momma2boo]

Thanks for the comparison to goat's milk, and I'm assuming for the moment that goat's milk contains no negatives, but my question at the moment really is, IS cow's milk bad for baby squirrels?

I'm not sure why scalded milk in particular would be bad, and the sticky says to avoid ALL cow's milk: PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE SQUIRREL COW'S MILK -- SCALDED OR ANY OTHER WAY!! It will cause most squirrel babies to sicken from diarrhea, and then die. It is NOT USED by the vast majority of licensed rehabilitators, wildlife centers or wildlife veterinarians.

A friend has a baby squirrel that was being fed Esbilac and developed diarrhea. When the Esbilac was stopped the diarrhea stopped. I just noticed that Esbilac contains "natural milk protein" as a primary ingredient! That's cow's milk, isn't it?

I think my friend has ordered the Fox Valley formula. But the Fox Valley formula also contains cow's milk! So if the culprit is cow's milk, how would that formula be any better?

fungipami

Fox Valley is the absolute best! Your friends squirrel should thrive on that stuff!

[4skwerlz]

Thank you for the info. So you are saying that it is not that cow's milk is harmful per se, but that it is lacking in some vital ingredients, such as enough of the right kind of fat?

Can you tell me what the change in the formula was that caused the problem (or point me to a thread that explains it)?

Thanks!

Fungipami

PLAIN cow's milk is bad. Formula does contain cow's milk products but they are processed, and contain less lactose (can cause digestive problems) than plain milk, and then of course formula has a lot of extra nutrition added--fat, protein, vitamins, minerals--which plain cow's milk lacks.

Esbilac changed their manufacturing process and something about that caused severe digestive upsets in baby squirrels--even some deaths. The old Esbilac formula (with the golden retriever puppy on the label) seems to be okay. However, since switching to Fox Valley, our rehabbers report better weight gain, less digestive problems, and plus there is no need to add extra cream, yogurt, etc., as with Esbilac. So, Fox Valley seems to be a far better formula.

Hope this helps.

[fungipami]

Yes, this helps. Thanks for the clarification!

[jedc53]

Cow's milk is an unhealthy fluid from diseased animals that contains a wide range of dangerous and disease causing substances that have a cumulative negative effect on all who consume it.It depends who you are.It depends how it is prepared and how it is produced.It depends on how much of it you eat.

[pappy1264]

Let me tell you about Pinkie, Pumpkin and Kiwi. They came to me after the person that had them was feeding them cow's milk (and adding in Karo syrup to it). They came here not only severly dehydrated, but with shooting black liquid coming out of them and all over them. Spent 24 hours just trying to hydrate these three, every hour. I rushed Pumpkin at 8pm for iv fluids, she was the worst. She held on for the night, even almost seeming to rally, only to pass the next morning. That same night, Pumpkin, who seemed to be getting better each hour, at midnight starting seizing.....I held him for almost two hours, the seizures coming every two minutes. I tried everything to pull him out of it, but none of it worked. I cried as I told him how sorry I was for what had been done to him and that I could not save him. He is buried out back. Lastly was Pinkie (Tuscadero). She was the biggest and strongest. It was touch and go at first, but I am so happy to say she survived and is thriving (on Fox Valley!) She even has a new 'sibling', Fonzi, that I picked up so she would not be alone. My heart still hurts over these babies, for it all never had to happen. (You see, these babies were not even 'abandoned or orphaned', these people had a nest in the roof of their deck. They pulled the babies and tore the nest out. Then proceeded to do this to them.) So, if you ask me is cow's milk out and out 'bad'......I think you know my answer. RIP little Pumpkin and Kiwi.

[island rehabber]

pappy1264 that makes me want to cry and kill somebody at the same time.....too bad you can't post THAT on Clarissa whatsername's website. :pissed

[pappy1264]

I know, it was awful and every time I look at Pinkie (who is doing FANTASTIC, Thank you God) I can see their little faces and bodies, so weak. It makes me so angry and sad. Thank you. I know it is hard, because you read one thing, then read another, if you don't know, what do you do? (Well, hopefully you come here, and ask!) Even back a zillion years ago, before we had 'the net', I raised squirrels, and from the getgo used Esbilac (now use Fox Valley...btw, that stuff smells so good I WANT TO EAT IT! lol) I never lost a squirrel, including a pinkie that had fallen from a 30 ft tree and split its face open! So when someone does this, then wants someone else to 'fix them', it makes me NUTS! (no pun intended). Ok, off my soapbox, going to go get some squirrely lovin'.......

[island rehabber]

I used Esbilac too, without a hitch, for 4-5 years. I switched to FV a year before the whole Esbilac fiasco simply because two of the best, most respected rehabbers in my general area were using FV and swore by it. (Guess you could call it peer pressure :tilt.) One of my other motivations to switch? Esbilac stunk up my drain something awful. Nomatter how much bleach, soap, or Lysol foam I sent down there after it, it just clung to the drainpipe and REEKED. :yuck Not so with FV.

[pappy1264]

Oh yeah, it did stink! lol Even my kids are like 'mom, that smells good, is it a shake?' when I am mixing up the FV! lol (Heck add a scoop of vanilla ice cream, I'd drink it!!! lol)

[Alcippe]

I've been using Vet-a-lac for puppies on my last two. It was what the vet gave me when he gave me Edith. Anybody else use this? I assumed it was the vet version of Esbilac. :dono I plan on ordering some Fox Valley next paycheck, just to keep on hand. But the Vet-a-lac does smell good, and I've not had any trouble getting them to eat it like I did Esbilac. I do still add heavy whipping cream at first then add yogart later b/c that is what I did with the Esbilac.

Mary, I'm so sorry about Pinky's siblings! The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze and anger me! Thank you so much for giving those babies the love and chance they deserved, even if two didn't make it! You are an amazing person! :bowdown

[pappy1264]

Thank you. Pinkie is doing fantastic (although today her 'pink dot' fell off....lol) I wish I could have done more, but all we can do is try.

I have never heard of that. Only used Esbilac before (and now ONLY FV).

[sqrl luv]

Where can I get Fox Valley? I've been using a mixture of GME and Multi milk. I have a tiny female black squirrel that will be wintering over with me and could use any advice you can give me! I am fairly new to the rehab business and I've never had one over the winter. I want to do EVERYTHING possible to give her the best nutrition, exercise, life I can!
Thank you!
Tammy

[astra]

Where can I get Fox Valley? I've been using a mixture of GME and Multi milk. I have a tiny female black squirrel that will be wintering over with me and could use any advice you can give me! I am fairly new to the rehab business and I've never had one over the winter. I want to do EVERYTHING possible to give her the best nutrition, exercise, life I can!
Thank you!
Tammy
Hi!

Fox Valley can be purchased either at www.foxvalleynutrition.com or www.henryspets.com

Also, please read this Healthy Diet for Pet Squirrels: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32218

she should get quality rodent block.
Henry's Healthy Block - HHB - was designed specifically for squirrels and is available only from www.henryspets.com

Some people use commercial block, such as Kaytee Forti Diet for rats and mice (blue bag, not green), Mazuri that you can buy at pet stores.

The difference is:
HHBs - only 2 per day
commercial block - you need to keep a bowlful of block in the cage every day, and, possibly, supplement with extra calcium (crush tUms and sprinkle on food)

So, although, for rehabbers who rehab dozens of squirrels commercial block deals may work a bit less expensive, for people who have only a squirrel or two, HHBs are less expensive, because fed only 2 per day, one bag goes a long way

Also, just read Squirrel Nutrition forum - http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191 a lot of very useful and important information there.

How old is she?
She should be weighed regularly and fed 5-7% of her body weight. Best - weight in grams.
Once you get Fox Valley- transition to it gradually: start with 25% of FV and 75% of your current formula and gradually increase the FV and decrease the current formula. Watch her poop during this time.

Do you know what syringes to get etc etc?
Please never hesitate to ask questions.
-----------------------------
IN addition to nutrition, there are important things to consider when buying/building a cage, getting cage accessories etc etc etc.

So, please keep asking away so that your little one will be safe and healthy.

A few things for now (not to overwhelm you):
1. do not use puppy pads in her cage
2. if you give her out of cage time, make sure the room is squirrel proof and NEVER without supervision
3. toilet lids are ALWAYS down - get a ladder http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30728
4. watch when you close doors behind you - they sneak up fast and quiet and risk getting slammed

ok, enough for now!

So, just keep asking questions.
And it will be best if you start new threads with your questions, because when you post a question in someone else's thread (especially, an old thread), you can get easily overlooked.

:grouphug

[sqrl luv]

She is 9 weeks old and still very tiny. Not the size of the other two I got in at the same time who are also 9 weeks. She weighs 170 grams and I've been feeding her 8 cc's, 3 times a day as she LOVES the formula. I let her out to play 3 times a day and I never leave her alone. I do have dogs, but they are NEVER allowed in that room and are mostly kept on the main level of the house until bedtime. My husband is making a room in the basement to be a squirrel nursery and it has good sunlight coming in the window. I will have things in there for her to exercise and it will be used next spring when the new babies start coming in. Thank you for all the info and I will probably be asking many more questions.
Tammy:
:thankyou

[Jackie in Tampa]

:wave123 can't wait to see pics of the sqs and the basement!!!:thumbsup