upChucky's UP!

[Katfish92]

Hi my name is Andrew. I have a squirrel named Chuck who I have had for about 7 months.he looks and acts very healthy and has a diet of rodent blocks, veggies, fruits, and nuts for treats. However since this morning he has been lethargic and has been asleep for most of the day. He has vomited a few times and it is clear with a red tint to it so I think there might be blood in it. He has walked around a little but spends most of his time curled in a ball with his eyes half closed. He has eaten very little but has been drinking a lot of water. I have called all the exotic vets in the area but they will not see him because I don't have a license. The only way for him to get medical care is if I take him to the local rehab place tomorrow. I don't know what is wrong with him and I don't want him to die. If anyone could help that would be great.

[CritterMom]

Can you tell us what the last thing was that he ate and also where you are located? Someone may be able to hook you up with a vet or rehabber who could help you faster.

[Katfish92]

I am from Aurora Il. He has eaten less than usual the past couple days but the last he ate was some apple, some avacado, and a little lettuce. I also gave him some waxworms the other day as I heard they have protein so maybe those are the problem?

[4skwerlz]

Can you give us the entire history of his symptoms? When you first noticed he wasn't feeling well? Also the last thing he ate before he starting getting sick. Is there any chance he got into some kind of chemicals at your house? Ant or roach baits, or something like that?

[Katfish92]

he hasn't eaten his rodent blocks for the past few days. Yesterday he wouldn't eat anything except for some apple and the waxworms. As far as I know the last he ate was a piece of apple. I don't have any houseplants, bug poison, or anything like that. This morning he stayed in bed and was vomiting every couple hours although he hasn't for a few hours now. This afternoon he drank a lot of water.

[Nancy in New York]

he hasn't eaten his rodent blocks for the past few days. Yesterday he wouldn't eat anything except for some apple and the waxworms. As far as I know the last he ate was a piece of apple. I don't have any houseplants, bug poison, or anything like that. This morning he stayed in bed and was vomiting every couple hours although he hasn't for a few hours now. This afternoon he drank a lot of water.
I am going to pm a number for you to call and explain the problem to...please keep us posted...

[4skwerlz]

Any chance he got overheated during the last few days?

Have you brought any leaves, branches, or foods from outside?

Do you have any nuts or acorns stored in the house that you feed him?

What kind of rodent block?

Do you feed any other kinds of supplements?

Do you wash your fruits/veggies before feeding?

[Nancy in New York]

Do you normally give him waxworms? Is this a new batch?

[Katfish92]

Do you normally give him waxworms? Is this a new batch?

I have given him mealworms before and he was fine but not waxworms. I have them for my turtle and chuck wanted some so I gave him some.

[Nancy in New York]

I would start pushing fluids...try pedialyte, if you don't have it you can make your own...

1 tsp salt (teaspoon)
3 Tbsp sugar (tablespoon)
1 quart warm water

Keep refrigerated.

Does he have free roam of the house?
How many waxworms did he have...how long after that did he get sick?

[Katfish92]

I'll make some pedialyte for him. I gave him like a dozen waxworms and I think it was saturday or sunday I can't remember. He was fine until this morning. Also he just threw up some blood.

[Nancy in New York]

Just to let everyone know...she called Dwight and left a message...

[Jackie in Tampa]

Andrew...is it possible he is calcium low?
I would give some calcium as a precautionary...
do you have straight calcium tablets or tums antiacid?
Do you have a syringe?
crush a tablet of either and admin slowly...will he swallow?

[Jackie in Tampa]

red tint?or very red...maybe blood or for sure blood?

[Nancy in New York]

Does your squirrel have free roam of your house?

[Katfish92]

Andrew...is it possible he is calcium low?
I would give some calcium as a precautionary...
do you have straight calcium tablets or tums antiacid?
Do you have a syringe?
crush a tablet of either and admin slowly...will he swallow?
I have calcium blocks in his cage that he chews on occasionally. I have calcium tablets that are 300mg calcium, 60 mg magnesium,20 mg superoxide dismatuse, and 20 mg catalase. Would one of those be ok?

[4skwerlz]

I have calcium blocks in his cage that he chews on occasionally. I have calcium tablets that are 300mg calcium, 60 mg magnesium,20 mg superoxide dismatuse, and 20 mg catalase. Would one of those be ok?

That would be okay.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thumbsup ty 4Skwerlz..... go slow so as to not aspirate him...is he awake enough to swallow?
crush one and add to two tablespoons or so of tap water...it will not dissolve real well...but try to get some into him...:grouphug

That would be okay.

[Katfish92]

he won't drink the pedialyte. I'm gonna try the calcium now. He has free roam of the house for a couple hours a day but only stays in a couple rooms.

[Nancy in New York]

he won't drink the pedialyte. I'm gonna try the calcium now. He has free roam of the house for a couple hours a day but only stays in a couple rooms.

You should check your bottles for holes...anything. Squeeze the bottle just to make sure that he did not get into anything...if air comes out there's a problem. I too have one that has free roam, and even with me watching...you would be surprised what they can get into in just a couple of minutes...no lie...This is not good that he won't take hydration...do you have any apple juice there that you can water down a little and give to him?

[Katfish92]

his vomit defenitely looked bloody the last time. He is drinking the ca/water mixture.

[Katfish92]

he never goes in the kitchen. He's scared of running water. He is drinking the ca/water mixture

[Jackie in Tampa]

we need to get him to perk up..in order to evaluate him better...do you have any karo syrup, log cabin or molasses...rub a small amount on his gums...
and continue to admin the calcium water slowly over the next couple hours... you can give plain tap water in between cal or dilute it more...just keep him taking water/hydration in some form..and as NIN said...apple juice will help withy both sugar and water...
go slow and stop if he continues to vomit...
so how many times has he vomited...please try to keep him warm while doing triage...

[Jackie in Tampa]

if he is calcium low...everything needs to be slow and soft, no noise, no bright lights, no sudden movements...I also have a sq that is scared of running water ...also an MBD sq, so I keep him away from water at all times...anything that may freak him out is not good if he is cal low...we do not want a seizure...
I am not trying to get stuck on one diagnosis....but it is the easiest one to fix and if he has anything less than perfect in the way of diet, he is at risk...
so keep thinking of possible things he may have gotten into...
and then give us the best history on him you cann..and his true daily diet...
this will help the rehabbers help you ...to help him...

[Nancy in New York]

You are in the best possible hands here with Jackie...:grouphug
I hope that Dwight calls you...I will be back on at 2:00 if you have a problem...:grouphug

[Katfish92]

thanks everyone for helping. I feed him kaytee forti diet rodent blocks. Some days he eats 2 or 3 and some days hell eat up to 10. But on average they make about 50 percent of his diet. I feed him some veggies and then fruits after the rodent blocks. He gets a couple nuts for dessert. He's been eating this diet since I found him last september.

[Jackie in Tampa]

how old was he when you rescued him? and was he on formula?
if so, which fomula did you use?
for how long?
how old was he when he stopped taking formula?
what veggies does he eat? do you repeat his diet daily or rotate veggies?
does he eat mushrooms or yogurt, they are both healthy.
Does he get sunshine or have a UV light?
How does he appear right now?
keep pushing the fluids and keep him warm...
will he move around on his own...have you seen poops and any urine..
to ck urine, I use a pillowcase smoothed out flat...you can monitor color and amount easier...
will he eat anything solid right now? a pecan half, a grape?

[Jackie in Tampa]

just trying to figure out what's going on with him...so any and all info helps...
some veggies are not as good as others, like corn, it actually stops calcium absorbtion...can you give me a list of things he eats and how often...I know this is alot, but lethargy can be from alot of things..
is his fur standing on end? is he chattering teeth...has he vomited again?
did you do a pinch test for dehydation yet? gently lift the skin between shoulders, if it relaxes he is hydrated, if it tents he needs hydration immediately...
glad he is taking the fluids:thumbsup

[Katfish92]

how old was he when you rescued him? and was he on formula?
if so, which fomula did you use?
for how long?
how old was he when he stopped taking formula?
what veggies does he eat? do you repeat his diet daily or rotate veggies?
does he eat mushrooms or yogurt, they are both healthy.
Does he get sunshine or have a UV light?
How does he appear right now?
keep pushing the fluids and keep him warm...
will he move around on his own...have you seen poops and any urine..
to ck urine, I use a pillowcase smoothed out flat...you can monitor color and amount easier...
will he eat anything solid right now? a pecan half, a grape?
when I found him he was weaned. He eats mushrooms often but not yogurt. He hasn't urined or pooped in a couple hours but he is taking pedialyte and calcium. He is also sprawled out and alot more relaxed instead of curled up

[Jackie in Tampa]

do you think he is responding to the calcium?
here is a link on metabolic bone disease...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17677

how old do you think he was?
were his eyes open? fully furred tail? were there others?
:poke give me some history guy....
any more blood?
edit: can you post a pic?

[Katfish92]

I did the pinch test and he is hydrated. He has alwas chattered his teeth sometimes.
his veggies are usually lettuce, avacado, carrot, mushrooms. He eats dried corn occasionally but not recemtly. Never fresh corn. He get maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of veggies/fruits a day. I change the variety of fruits/ veggies every week or 2

[Katfish92]

do you think he is responding to the calcium?
here is a link on metabolic bone disease...
[URL=""]

how old do you think he was?
were his eyes open? fully furred tail? were there others?
:poke give me some history guy....
any more blood?
edit: can you post a pic?
from pictures I've seen I think he was about a month old. His eyes were wide open. He was fully furred. He seems more relaxed now.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I may catch hell for this...as many rehabbers believe in rat chow/rodent blocks...but the main ingrediant in most of them is corn...:shakehead
I only offer it to juvinille sqs to make a mess with...:peace
is he stable enough to read the link...
hoping it will shed light as to whether this is a calcium issue or...not.
please keep him warm...if it is MBD, some sqs have a hard time keeping core temp up...make a rice buddy using any rice and a sock,,,tie it off and nuke it for 20-60 seconds...wrap that up with him...comfort.
have you ever seen any seizures?..has he slowed down in excersize?
have you changed anything in your house? brought in something that may have been sprayed...or anything moldy he may have been near?...:thinking

[Katfish92]

I may catch hell for this...as many rehabbers believe in rat chow/rodent blocks...but the main ingrediant in most of them is corn...:shakehead
I only offer it to juvinille sqs to make a mess with...:peace
is he stable enough to read the link...
hoping it will shed light as to whether this is a calcium issue or...not.
please keep him warm...if it is MBD, some sqs have a hard time keeping core temp up...make a rice buddy using any rice and a sock,,,tie it off and nuke it for 20-60 seconds...wrap that up with him...comfort.
have you ever seen any seizures?..has he slowed down in excersize?
have you changed anything in your house? brought in something that may have been sprayed...or anything moldy he may have been near?...:thinking
he is on a heat blanket. I havnt seen any seizures. Until this morning he always had alot of energy. My mom cleaned the bathroom yesterday with clorox stuff but he doesn't go in there.

[Jackie in Tampa]

from pictures I've seen I think he was about a month old. His eyes were wide open. He was fully furred. He seems more relaxed now.
I push formula as long as possible...for him to have been without the proper nutriants at such a young age is possibly what is going on with him now.
You will have to use the emergency MBD protocol and continue with the calcium...
thank you for finding this forum when you did...I am seriously thinking this is calcium related..especially if he is responding to the calcium...
You will need to do research on improving his diet, some foods are much better than others.
There is also a forum with alot of nutrition info.. healthy food lists and evil food lists are there...
I have them printed and posted on the fridge...
foods that are high in phosphorus will deplete the calcium that other healthy foods have...
so high phosphorus is bad ...
and should be avoided...
here is a link to the nutrition forum...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191

Several members are monitoring this thread...and we are here...
keep us posted on Chucks progress...
do not give too much calcium too fast...300 mg in 8-12 hours is good ...try to get him to eat something solid too...
:thumbsup

[Katfish92]

I have been doing the calcium treatment along with a little pedialyte. He won't eat anything solid and is very weak but is awake and looking around a little.

[Jackie in Tampa]

teeth chattering is an indication of pain and/or agitation...
and agitation AND pain are associated with low calcium...
once the body isn't supplied with enough calcium and reaches rock bottom...the body starts stealing calcium from it's own organs and bones in order to maintain the calcium level in the brain...
sometimes it can be so severe that partial paralysis occurs..followed by seizures and then death...
I am noit trying to scare you...but we see it in the emergency forum too often...
It is hard to raise a sq in captivity...it's all about health with these guys...and once they are sick, they can go down fast......
I actually think I would order some Fox Valley formula and try it...he may love it...
it is complete.
WE also have a member that sells Henry's Healthy Sq Blocks...
they are based on complete RVA disguised in a nut cookie...most sqs on TSB eat them as a staple daily...

how's chuck now?

[Jackie in Tampa]

I have been doing the calcium treatment along with a little pedialyte. He won't eat anything solid and is very weak but is awake and looking around a little.
did you get any sugar on his gums...karo etc?
keep hydrating, every drop counts...:bowdown
goal is 600 mg of calcium in first 24 hours...for three days...and then start a healthy diet with suppliments!
I could be wrong about amounts...someone will let you know if so...
I haven't read the protocol in awhile. eek!
do not let him get too hot either on heating pad...:Love_Icon

[Katfish92]

he is asleep now but I think he had a small seizure. I could take him to a rehab place in the morning because I would much rather give him up than have him die. What do you think? Also where can I get the fox valley formula?

[Katfish92]

I have a 300 mg tab and he's had about a 1/3 of it. I am putting sugar on his gums. He is awake and left the heat blanket to lay in my lap

[island rehabber]

What did you see that makes you think he had a seizure? Anything you can tell us may help....

[4skwerlz]

I have a 300 mg tab and he's had about a 1/3 of it.

If this is MBD, he will need more than 300 mg. Give him the rest of it. You're in good hands with Jackie.

[Jackie in Tampa]

hoping dwight will call in the morning...
you can also put calcium in peanut butter or yogurt...avacodo always works...if he will eat.
you're doing great guy...push the fluids...

as his cal level rises he should gain appetite ...
normally, does he crack nuts?

[Katfish92]

What did you see that makes you think he had a seizure? Anything you can tell us may help....
he twitched really fast a few times. Also if he changes position he moves jerky

[Katfish92]

I am slowly giving him the rest of the 300 mg calcium mixed with water. He won't take a piece of walnut. His movements aren't jerky anymore and he just walked around on my lap.

[Jackie in Tampa]

he twitched really fast a few times. Also if he changes position he moves jerky
as if he was paranoid...jerky?
'on edge' jerky?
was he limp after he 'twitched'?

[Jackie in Tampa]

andrew...you are the eyes...is this a calcium issue...?
if so...just keep on doing it...get calcium in him ...consistantly but not too fast... pace,...we do not want too much too fast...because calcium overload will also stop calcium absorbtion and he will eliminate it as waste...
so just alternate fluids...
molasses has calcium in it and you can mix with water to the color of tea and syringe that also...
i will post my milkshake recipe...it's perfect for him...

Originally Posted by Jackie in Tampa


Here's the Banana Milk Shake
I make this in a baby food jar and start with formula [Fox Valley, Esbilac or goats Milk]

1 to 1 1/2 inch slice of Banana
3 tablespoons formula
3 tablespoons Dannon All Natural Vanilla Yogurt
2 to 4 drops of liquid Vit. E oil [not cosmetic grade]
5 or 6 drops of liquid cod liver oil (not the capsules)
300 - 400 mg calcium carbonate or citrate
[without D]
100 mg. of Vit. C
Pour the warmed yogurt and milk into the mashed banana and vitamin mixture and mix it all up well with a fork.
Warm and syringe feed.
Discard after 3 days.
:Love_Icon

[Katfish92]

as if he was paranoid...jerky?
'on edge' jerky?
was he limp after he 'twitched'?
yeah as if he was nervous. He was a little stiff after he twitched. he hasn't been jerky since then. He just vomited a very small amount. About the size of a dime and now he curled up and went to sleep

[Katfish92]

he has the symptoms of lethargy and weakness and it sounds like it's MBD except for the vomiting. I don't have any of the ingredients for the milkshake but I will give him mollasses with water. Should I keep giving him pedialyte?

[Jackie in Tampa]

not really needed, but won't hurt either ...just alternate the calcium water, tap water, diluted fruit juice...apple maybe...and molasses tea...but continue to offer him solids until he takes something...even a saltine at this point...I understand he is still too weak...but hoping he will get hungry before morning...:Love_Icon

[Katfish92]

not really needed, but won't hurt either ...just alternate the calcium water, tap water, diluted fruit juice...apple maybe...and molasses tea...but continue to offer him solids until he takes something...even a saltine at this point...I understand he is still too weak...but hoping he will get hungry before morning...:Love_Icon
ok. Thanks for your help

[Jackie in Tampa]

I need to feed some babies...but we are here...I will ck back soo n and NIN will be back at two also...
your doing good...
I am sending good vibes:Love_Icon

[Katfish92]

ok thanks

[Jackie in Tampa]

two more sweeties to feed...you guys ok?

[Katfish92]

yup. Chuck is dozing and won't drink much at a time but I'm alternating calcium mixed with water and mollasses, orange juice, and water.he still won't take solid food. He is sleepy but his back legs are a little stiff.

[Nancy in New York]

Read threw fast, is he on heat? What do you mean back legs a little stiff?

[Jackie in Tampa]

I am going to lay down...but will ck back in a couple hours...
NIN, call me if I can help with anything...
dilute the oj...and keep up the calcium...
get better Chuck:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Good Night Jackie...get some sleep...:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Katfish92]

Read threw fast, is he on heat? What do you mean back legs a little stiff?
he's on a heat pad. His back legs feel a little stiff compared to his front legs which are limper. he seems to be slightly better though

[Nancy in New York]

he's on a heat pad. His back legs feel a little stiff compared to his front legs which are limper. he seems to be slightly better though
Is he sleeping at all? Are you still doing the calcium? I am going to try to look for other rehabbers near you...and then post here. I do hope that Dwight calls you back...perhaps give him another call around 8:30 or so. Will you be with your squirrel today or do you work?

[Katfish92]

Is he sleeping at all? Are you still doing the calcium? I am going to try to look for other rehabbers near you...and then post here. I do hope that Dwight calls you back...perhaps give him another call around 8:30 or so. Will you be with your squirrel today or do you work?
he is sleeping alot and I'm still doing the calcium. There is a rehab place by me called fox valley wildlife center. Should I take him there? I work at 5pm tomorrow

[Nancy in New York]

he is sleeping alot and I'm still doing the calcium. There is a rehab place by me called fox valley wildlife center. Should I take him there? I work at 5pm tomorrow

You might have to...so you go in at 5 tonight? I just hate to have you turn him over to some place that we are not familiar with...some places may not take the time to attend to a sick squirrel if they are understaffed. I am going to pm you the address of a member here who may be able to help...not quite sure where you are located...let me know in a pm where exactly you are...

[Nancy in New York]

I have put out word for help here...Fingers crossed we will find somebody/someplace close to you that can better direct you where to take your little one...Is it ok to post your location on open board...not the street or anything, just the town and state?

[Katfish92]

yeah you can post my location.

[Nancy in New York]

We need help in Aurora Illinois...I sent out a pm to LynnIn. Does anyone know of any place or member that may be able to help this little squirrel? We just need a place that is safe and will give it the time it may take to get healthy...
Remember to call Dwight again around 8:30, he may not have seen his messages...
Your depth of love for your squirrel was so obvious when you said that you would relinquish your squirrel to get it help...:bowdown :bowdown :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

How are you and your little one doing? Everyone hanging in there?

[Katfish92]

ok I will call him then. And yup I love chuck :). He is taking the calcium water and diluted juice fine. He has also been walking around a very little. He still won't eat solid food tho. He also peed a little

[Nancy in New York]

Is there any possibility that he fell? You don't see any sign of that do you? When was the last time that he vomited?
You're doing wonderful by the way...you have so much commitment to this little one...:bowdown
One more thing...have you looked at his teeth? If you can just make sure that they are not too long where the bottom ones would hit the roof of his mouth...Just thinking out loud...:thinking

[Katfish92]

Is there any possibility that he fell? You don't see any sign of that do you? When was the last time that he vomited?
You're doing wonderful by the way...you have so much commitment to this little one...:bowdown
lol thanks. As far as I kno he didn't fall. He may have tho since he is usually very hyper. The last time he vomited was about 11 and it was very little

[Nancy in New York]

[QUOTE=Katfish92]lol thanks. As far as I kno he didn't fall. He may have tho since he is usually very hyper. The last time he vomited was about 11 and it was very little
QUOTE]

Did you see any sign of blood in that? You haven't given him any acorns have you? How about any kind of hard nut that he would have to crack...just wondering if he somehow ingested mold?

I added this late above...just wanted you to see...One more thing...have you looked at his teeth? If you can just make sure that they are not too long where the bottom ones would hit the roof of his mouth...Just thinking out loud...:thinking

[Katfish92]

I just checked his teeth. The bottom ones look long and are 2-3 times longer than the top ones. And they touch the roof of his mouth although his mouth doesn't look irritated in any way. The bottom teeth do look a little too long.

no hard nuts for the past month or so.

his vomit was brown and didn't appear to have any blood

[Nancy in New York]

I just checked his teeth. The bottom ones look long and are 2-3 times longer than the top ones. And they touch the roof of his mouth although his mouth doesn't look irritated in any way. The bottom teeth do look a little too long.

no hard nuts for the past month or so.

his vomit was brown and didn't appear to have any blood

Is there any way that you can get a picture of his teeth? You can email them to me and I will post them...nmognoni@nycap.rr.com
Now I'm curious why the vomit is brown, was it clear before...with maybe a tinge of blood?
The bottom teeth should be longer but not touching the roof of the mouth

[Katfish92]

Is there any way that you can get a picture of his teeth? You can email them to me and I will post
Now I'm curious why the vomit is brown, was it clear before...with maybe a tinge of blood?
yes. The vomit was thick and clear before with a little blood but the last time it was thin and brown

[Nancy in New York]

If you start offering him food again, stay away from the wax worms, and start off with something bland...but for now keep up with the calcium...did you feed him anything that could have made the vomit brown? Did you give him molasses?
I will have to jump in the shower now...Will be back in about 20 minutes...there may be others on here soon...see you in a couple of minutes...

[Katfish92]

he hasn't vomited since the molasses or oj but He eat a small piece of walnut a while before he vomited. I have been offering him walnut, avacado, apple and lettuce. I sent the pictures. Let me kno if you got them

[CritterMom]

My cable went out last night - sorry...

Keep pushing fluids on him - but I would remove the orange juice from the rotation - the acid can be hard on the tummy. The calcium water and the molasses water will be fine. If he ingested something bad, you are trying to flush it out of his system ASAP with all that water.

Do you have any peanut butter or almond butter? You might want to see if after a few more feedings with the fluids if he wants to maybe lick a little off your finger. It has been 5 hours since he last vomited, right?

[Katfish92]

I posted last time he vomited. The post says 11:40 so it's been about 4 hours. I'll stop the oj and I will try some peanut butter.

[Nancy in New York]

Here are the photos. Those bottom teeth need to be trimmed...we have to find somebody to do that...You said they are hitting the roof of his mouth right? Oh poor baby...he looks under the weather for sure...:grouphug :grouphug
106152

106153

106154

I will keep coming back here about every 10 minutes...keep doing what you are doing for now...

[Katfish92]

chuck doesn't want to swallow his water or calcium water anymore. He just kinda nibbles it and lets it dribble out of his mouth. He won't eat peanut butter either

[CritterMom]

Keep him nice and warm and quiet and give him a little break for a while, then try again. Let's concentrate on just the fluids right now.

[Nancy in New York]

You have been giving him this all night, I hope this is only because he if full and wants to rest. He is still on heat, right? Has he peed or pooped at all?

[Katfish92]

yes he's been drinking it all night. He has been on heat but keeps crawling into my lap. Anyways he is fast asleep right now. He peed a couple hours ago but no poop since yesterday

[Nancy in New York]

yes he's been drinking it all night. He has been on heat but keeps crawling into my lap. Anyways he is fast asleep right now. He peed a couple hours ago but no poop since yesterday

That's not unusual since he really hasn't eaten...just love your baby, and keep him warm...Maybe both of you can get a little cat nap...You are such a terrific squirrel daddy...:bowdown :bowdown :Love_Icon :Love_Icon
This may seem like a silly question, do you notice any odor around his mouth, or in his pee?

[CritterMom]

Yes, let him sleep a little, and if he wants to be on your lap, if you can do that, it would be best.

I have PMd and emailed a member who lives in your area and has a pet gray - I am hoping she can maybe help with a vet...

[Katfish92]

thanks I try to be a good squirrel daddy lol. his mouth has no odor. His pee has always had a bad odor is that normal? I guess I'll try and get some sleep now for an hour or two. I set my alarm for 6.

[Nancy in New York]

thanks I try to be a good squirrel daddy lol. his mouth has no odor. His pee has always had a bad odor is that normal? I guess I'll try and get some sleep now for an hour or two. I set my alarm for 6.

None of mine ever had an odor when they peed...perhaps others can chime in...6:00 is not even an hour of sleep...:nono :poke :nono

[CritterMom]

None of mine ever had an odor when they peed...perhaps others can chime in...6:00 is not even an hour of sleep...:nono :poke :nono

Central Time Zone, blondie:D

I wonder if the urine odor is a forti-diet thing?

[Nancy in New York]

I just want to do a fast recap on Chuck...

7 month old grey squirrel fine until yesterday..

However since this morning he has been lethargic and has been asleep for most of the day. He has vomited a few times and it is clear with a red tint to it so I think there might be blood in it.

Questionable diet..perhaps MBD...started treatment for that while looking into other causes. NO hard nuts were given for the past month.
Ate wax worms, something new for him on Sat. or Sun. No appetite for past couple of days...His pee has always had bad odor...and his teeth are touching the roof of his mouth

Dwight contacted by phone and left message, also pm'd LynnIn, and another member...no contact made back yet...

he twitched really fast a few times. Also if he changes position he moves jerky.
yeah as if he was nervous. He was a little stiff after he twitched. he hasn't been jerky since then. He just vomited a very small amount. About the size of a dime and now he curled up and went to sleep

Still will not eat solids...he is on heat and in arms of owner...last time he vomited was around 11:00..
his vomit was brown and didn't appear to have any blood He just lets the calcium drip out of his mouth now...

Photo of little one on page 4.

Andrew...add anything to this that you wish...it may make it easier for people to just have this capsulized...:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Just giving this a little bump up...:D

[Katfish92]

ok heres an update. Chuck woke up and seemed to have perked up a little he walked around on me and looked around. I gave him a little calcium water and he went back to sleep on the heat pad. He still won't eat food.

[CritterMom]

Keep an eye on him and keep offering water - the molasses water if he likes it, or add a little sugar - whatever it takes to interest him. He does need sleep, too, and sleeping on the heat is good. Keep refreshing the page - I am hoping we can come up with a vet situation better than your Nature Center idea.

[Katfish92]

ok I will do that. And nancy your overview is good

[Nancy in New York]

I agree CritterMom I would like to see someone that we "know" take a look at this baby...
Thanks Andrew...Don't forget to call Dwight back around 8:30 ok?
I think that CritterMom and I are both at work now so our posting may be a little more sporadic...

[Katfish92]

ok I will remember to call him.

[Nancy in New York]

ok I will remember to call him.

:thumbsup :grouphug

[Katfish92]

he keeps chattering his teeth together. Does this mean he's in pain?

[Jackie in Tampa]

Did we talk to Lynninin yet..?
the teeth pic is too unclear for me to see well, but if others think the teeth loook too long...but that would not cause lethargy unless there is a hole in the roof of his mouth that is infected...otherwise and if he has been eating some, he would not be lethargic from teeth being too long.
Chuck is beautiful...
we are going to have to keep pushing fluids...
did you say he stopped drinking? has he started swallowing again?

[Jackie in Tampa]

he keeps chattering his teeth together. Does this mean he's in pain?
maybe pain,maybe cold

[Nancy in New York]

He could have pain somewhere...he just is not feeling well at all...
I just got word from LynnIn...
There is an exotics vet in Indianapolis that have helped others. That is approximately 2 21/2 hours away. She is on her way to work but will keep checking in throughout the day.
There is no further vet info. given.

[Nancy in New York]

Did we talk to Lynninin yet..?
the teeth pic is too unclear for me to see well, but if others think the teeth loook too long...but that would not cause lethargy unless there is a hole in the roof of his mouth that is infected...otherwise and if he has been eating some, he would not be lethargic from teeth being too long.
Chuck is beautiful...
we are going to have to keep pushing fluids...
did you say he stopped drinking? has he started swallowing again?
Yes we heard from her Jackie..I posted above...
Do you have her cell phone number? She gave it to me and said that texting would be better...but I don't text and I'm at work...

[Jackie in Tampa]

I do not text either...
eek,:dono

[CritterMom]

I am hoping that Mugzeezmom has or knows of a vet - she lives in the same area.

[Katfish92]

his mouth appears to be fine with no holes or infections. He is taking liquids only when I pour them in his mouth with a spoon. He just threw up some liquid with mollasses in it. It's brown. He also went poop and it was really wet and had an odor.

[Jackie in Tampa]

do not pour in liquids...
he needs to swallow, otherwise he may aspirate ...
so if he will not swallow...stop for awile...
do you have a cracker?
see if he will nibble it.
apple or grape...
is he worse or has he perked up at all?
has he stood on his own at all since yesterday?
or just laying?
are you sure that he did not get into anything 'not good for him?"

[Katfish92]

do not pour in liquids...
he needs to swallow, otherwise he may aspirate ...
so if he will not swallow...stop for awile...
do you have a cracker?
see if he will nibble it.
apple or grape...
is he worse or has he perked up at all?
has he stood on his own at all since yesterday?
or just laying?
are you sure that he did not get into anything 'not good for him?"
if I pour in liquid he will swallow it but I will stop. He won't eat a cracker. He perked slightly when he woke up at 6 and walked around my couch but since then he's been laying on his heat pad.

[Jackie in Tampa]

really wet?
loose/diarreha.... or formed and mucus'y?

[Katfish92]

on monday he was sniffing my turtles plastic tank and started chewing on the lid. I heard turtles can carry salmonella

[mugzeezma]

HEY!
Crittermom just PM'd me
I am here in Illinois I will PM my phone number and location..it's nearby.
I wasn't able to assimilate the whole thread, my daughters birthday was yesterday and I have kids, critters and Mugzi a grey squirrel.
I will actually be gigging tonight in Aurora.
I may have some resources for your little Chuck.

[Katfish92]

really wet?
loose/diarreha.... or formed and mucus'y?
formed and mucousy. Dark with a greenish tint

[island rehabber]

Bless you mugzeesma!! This baby needs help as quickly as we can get it to him! :thankyou

[Jackie in Tampa]

HEY!
Crittermom just PM'd me
I am here in Illinois I will PM my phone number and location..it's nearby.
I wasn't able to assimilate the whole thread, my daughters birthday was yesterday and I have kids, critters and Mugzi a grey squirrel.
I will actually be gigging tonight in Aurora.
I may have some resources for your little Chuck.:bowdown

[island rehabber]

formed and mucousy. Dark with a greenish tint

The last time I saw this in a squirrel it was coccidia....a vet will prescribe the currently most effective AB for that. (We used to use Albon but I am told it doesn't work anymore....)

[CritterMom]

As far as liquids are concerned - it would be best if you could use a syringe or even (VERY CAREFULLY) a small eye dropper to give them. We are just concerned that he could aspirate using the spoon. I also think that maybe clear liquids would be better now - water mixed with just a little sugar perhaps.

[Nancy in New York]

HEY!
Crittermom just PM'd me
I am here in Illinois I will PM my phone number and location..it's nearby.
I wasn't able to assimilate the whole thread, my daughters birthday was yesterday and I have kids, critters and Mugzi a grey squirrel.
I will actually be gigging tonight in Aurora.
I may have some resources for your little Chuck.


Thank you Mugzeema and CritterMom for pm'ing her...:grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

The last time I saw this in a squirrel it was coccidia....a vet will prescribe the currently most effective AB for that. (We used to use Albon but I am told it doesn't work anymore....)
I am thinking that too..parasites will be present..yet not present themselves until they are rampant...
stinky mucousy green poops are symptoms of cochidia...
we need SMZ_TMP and metacam...stat

[Katfish92]

I called mugzeezma and she's helping me out. I will try water with sugar in a dropper. Should I still give him calcium?

[Jackie in Tampa]

great that she is helping you!

[Nancy in New York]

Are you trying to get him vet or rehab help? That is what he really needs…
Thank you mugzeezma:grouphug :grouphug

[Katfish92]

Are you trying to get him vet or rehab help? That is what he really needs…
Thank you mugzeezma:grouphug :grouphug
yup that's what were doing

[Nancy in New York]

yup that's what were doing

I knew that...anyone who stays up with his squirrel all night is finding help...sending prayers your way....:grouphug

[CritterMom]

Awesome, awesome, AWESOME!! Thanks so much, Mugseezmom!!

Please keep us up to date on him - we really do care about it! And when this crisis is past, please come back - you are doing a wonderful job with Chuck but we can help you tweak his diet a little bit and you can make him even healthier.

[mugzeezma]

Talking with Katfish and working out what to do

It is EXTREMELY to IMPOSSIBLE to get vet care for wilds in Illinois. I will call my ace in the hole ONLY when other resources have been exhausted. There is no guarantee that even that will be of use. Ace is a large animal vet.

thank you all of you... I will do everything I possibly I can....

[Jackie in Tampa]

mugz...do you have any meds...does anyone have meds??????

[Nancy in New York]

[QUOTE=mugzeezma]Talking with Katfish and working out what to do

It is EXTREMELY to IMPOSSIBLE to get vet care for wilds in Illinois. I will call my ace in the hole ONLY when other resources have been exhausted. There is no guarantee that even that will be of use. Ace is a large animal vet.

thank you all of you... I will do everything I possibly I can....QUOTE]


Oh, we know that you will...:bowdown

[Katfish92]

Awesome, awesome, AWESOME!! Thanks so much, Mugseezmom!!

Please keep us up to date on him - we really do care about it! And when this crisis is past, please come back - you are doing a wonderful job with Chuck but we can help you tweak his diet a little bit and you can make him even healthier.
I'll keep you guys up to date and I'll def stay with the squirrel board. You guys are a huge help

[Jackie in Tampa]

can we have an update on chuck?
how is he? :Love_Icon
sending powerful vibes to you all.

[Katfish92]

chuck has been sleeping on his heat pad all morning. I've been giving him drops of pedialyte and calcium in his mouth. He isn't active and his pads on his feet changed from bright pink to dull light pink.

[Nancy in New York]

How is it going with finding someone...keep him warm....

[Jackie in Tampa]

rub some karo or log cabin on his gums...
hold him and love him softly...:grouphug

[Katfish92]

rub some karo or log cabin on his gums...
hold him and love him softly...:grouphug
would maple syrup be ok?

[CritterMom]

Yes, fine. Trying to keep his blood sugar up.

[Jackie in Tampa]

would maple syrup be ok?
yes...just a dab...trying to elevate his blood sugars and perk him up...
do you kbow people with pets, that may have some meds from a vet?
start calling around and see what you can get your hands on...we can tell you if they will work.
we are wanting anti biotics...cat and dog owner friends:grouphug

[Katfish92]

he perked up slightly with the syrup. I'm trying to find someone with antibiotics

[Squirrely Steve]

Hi Katfish92 and Friends

The other day I was in a Farm and Fleet and I seen they had all kinds of supplys for different Farm animals.
I looked up and there is one maybe by you.
Here is a link for some stores http://planitnorthwest.nwherald.com/north-aurora+il/pet+supplies.zq.html
They might be able to tell you over the phone.
they may have a anitibotic there that would work. ?
I would ask here before you buy anything.
Just trying to help. :grouphug
Feel for you and Chuck so sorry :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

how much of the original 300mg of calcium do you think he has taken?
what is he doing now?
are his feet warm?
have you tried offering a nut lately?
avacodo? try his favorite thing...I am trying to see if he has any appetite or energy...
can you give a detailed update about overall appearance and attitude...
is he still lethargic? does he have any strength?
is it possible that he has been poisoned?
please ck around...

[Jackie in Tampa]

mugz...do you have any meds on hand...?

[SquirrelNut]

Thoughts and prayers coming your way for Chuck and you!

Dana & Nos :grouphug

[Katfish92]

chuck finished the 1st 300mg of ca and now he's on the second tab. My sister brought some lilacs in the house before chuck got sick. He might have eaten some

[Jackie in Tampa]

pic of lilacs please...

[CritterMom]

chuck finished the 1st 300mg of ca and now he's on the second tab. My sister brought some lilacs in the house before chuck got sick. He might have eaten some


Non-toxic - Jackie, I am familiar with these - they are blooming up north now (not HERE yet, but where Chuck is). They are on the NON toxic list for humans and animals.

[Jackie in Tampa]

i am getting both yes and nos to lilac being poisonous...can someone do some research on this for me?Leigh are you there?
we need pics posted to identify flowers


-------------------
how is chuck now...yes keep giving calcium...
we are not sure that is problem andrew, but it won't hurt...

[Jackie in Tampa]

Non-toxic - Jackie, I am familiar with these - they are blooming up north now (not HERE yet, but where Chuck is). They are on the NON toxic list for humans and animals.
ty:thankyou :bowdown

[Katfish92]

mugzeezma thinks he was poisomed. Possibly from a cleaning product. She is calling a rehab place that may be able to take him. She also said if he was poisoned he has a high chance of dying.

[Nancy in New York]

Do you think there is cleaning product missing? What makes you think that?

[Katfish92]

my mom cleaned the bathroom with clorox bleach on monday. The lilac was also in the bathroom. I haven't found anything he has gotten into

[Nancy in New York]

Are you still pushing the fluids...this may get something flushed out of his system...How is getting him professional help going??? Time is so important here...
Do you have any vet yourself for any animal...this waiting has got to stop we need action now...I'm not yelling...I know things take time...this is just getting too critical...lets all think!!!!

[Anne]

Did you peel the apple? Many squirrels choke on apple peel, he may have some stuck in his throat. If he has suddenly stopped drinking that could be the problem! Tough peel could scrape and make his throat sore and bleed.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Andrew I clean sq cages with bleach sweetie, unless he ingested some, bleach in the bathroom is ok!
was he in there while she was cleaning? could he have gotten bleach on paws or drank some, animals will not drink noxious things most times...
Mugz...what center...do we know if it is sq friendly?
do we know if sq will see a vet...
without knowing, I would rather not take him...
I am sorry about him being so sick, and he may die...but we can still try to get him better or give him a peaceful passing..
I do not want to transport him without knowing what is waiting...:dono :shakehead :Love_Icon

[Katfish92]

Are you still pushing the fluids...this may get something flushed out of his system...How is getting him professional help going??? Time is so important here...
I am still giving him drops of pedialyte and calcium. The only medical help is a rehab place and mugzeezma is contacting one.

[Nancy in New York]

Andrew I clean sq cages with bleach sweetie, unless he ingested some, bleach in the bathroom is ok!
was he in there while she was cleaning? could he have gotten bleach on paws or drank some, animals will not drink noxious things most times...
Mugz...what center...do we know if it is sq friendly?
do we know if sq will see a vet...
without knowing, I would rather not take him...
I am sorry about him being so sick, and he may die...but we can still try to get him better or give him a peaceful passing..
I do not want to transport him without knowing what is waiting...:dono :shakehead :Love_Icon


Exactly...but we need to know what options we have...who you Andrew know...who mugz knows and get going....if only for the meds???Something...:dono

[Katfish92]

Did you peel the apple? Many squirrels choke on apple peel, he may have some stuck in his throat. If he has suddenly stopped drinking that could be the problem! Tough peel could scrape and make his throat sore and bleed.
he hasn't eaten apple since he stopped drinking on his own. I don't peel his apples but he has never eaten the peels before

[CritterMom]

Keep pushing the fluids. Whatever he likes and will take - fruit juice and water (try to stay away from citrus due to the tummy issue), sugar water, maple syrup and water. Flush, flush, flush. We aren't impatient with you every one of us just want to help and it can be so frustrating.

[mugzeezma]

Keep pushing the fluids. Whatever he likes and will take - fruit juice and water (try to stay away from citrus due to the tummy issue), sugar water, maple syrup and water. Flush, flush, flush. We aren't impatient with you every one of us just want to help and it can be so frustrating.
I'm going to go pick up this baby ASAP
I'll let you know what's going on
I will try to get hold of my ace in the hole
or
take him to a wildlife center I trust

[Nancy in New York]

Oh God Andrew...please don't think I am yelling at you or mugz or anybody...I am thinking out loud and just praying that we can get help before it's too late. You know when you're on the outside...time just drags...you and mugz know what is going on and being done...phone calls to be returned. etc.
You are the absolute best staying up all night with your baby and getting him help, pushing fluids...you are actually quite amazing...I only want the best for your little one and you!!!!:Love_Icon :grouphug :Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

need an update on his activity level please...is he able to drink/swallow?
Has he been moving around at all?
are his feet warm?
is his hair/fur standing on end...puffy like?
saying prayers....come on little buddy....:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

I'm going to go pick up this baby ASAP
I'll let you know what's going on
I will try to get hold of my ace in the hole
or
take him to a wildlife center I trust
:bowdown :bowdown :bowdown :grouphug :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

:alright.gif :grouphug :bowdown :grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug :thumbsup :Love_Icon :grouphug thank you....
I'm going to go pick up this baby ASAP
I'll let you know what's going on
I will try to get hold of my ace in the hole
or
take him to a wildlife center I trust
rescue remedy...slow and easy...no loud noise...keep him covered...
did we find any meds?

[Katfish92]

I understand you guys are worried and so am I. Mugzeezma is coming to pick him up from my house. She said she's calling her vet for help. She said shell try to take care of him as she has syringes and stuff. She said shell take him to the rehab place as a last resort

[Nancy in New York]

I understand you guys are worried and so am I. Mugzeezma is coming to pick him up from my house. She said she's calling her vet for help. She said shell try to take care of him as she has syringes and stuff. She said shell take him to the rehab place as a last resort
You're the best...we are all praying our heart out for your little buddy...:grouphug

[CritterMom]

I'm going to go pick up this baby ASAP
I'll let you know what's going on
I will try to get hold of my ace in the hole
or
take him to a wildlife center I trust


Any way they will relinquish him back to Andrew after?

[Squirrely Steve]

Sending lots of Prayers :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug
Any thoughts/ideas about using Charcoal ?
We are Thinking Hard and Praying :grouphug
Hang in there Chuck :grouphug

[Katfish92]

need an update on his activity level please...is he able to drink/swallow?
Has he been moving around at all?
are his feet warm?
is his hair/fur standing on end...puffy like?
saying prayers....come on little buddy....:grouphug
he is lying down and swallows the drops I give him. His feet aren't very warm so I put him on his heat pad. His fur IS standing on end. He likes it when I pet him

[ChicagoKim]

Hi Andrew and everyone.

(I talked to Andrew on the phone.)

Here's what I can help with, if needed:

IV fluids
Syringe feeding
I have a vet in Downers Grove that will test his poop for parasites.
I have a different vet that will test his blood if provided to him (if we can get someone to draw the blood).

Mugzeez was right that it's impossible to find anyone to help around here without surrendering your squirrel.

There is a Farm and Fleet up north on 47. It's drivable. There may be others. You can check their web site for locations.

I work with a feral cat organization and have access to some meds. If it's determined that he needs ABs, let me know and I can see if I can get it.

Kim

[Nancy in New York]

Hi Andrew and everyone.

(I talked to Andrew on the phone.)

Here's what I can help with, if needed:

IV fluids
Syringe feeding
I have a vet in Downers Grove that will test his poop for parasites.
I have a different vet that will test his blood if provided to him (if we can get someone to draw the blood).

Mugzeez was right that it's impossible to find anyone to help around here without surrendering your squirrel.

There is a Farm and Fleet up north on 47. It's drivable. There may be others. You can check their web site for locations.

I work with a feral cat organization and have access to some meds. If it's determined that he needs ABs, let me know and I can see if I can get it.

Kim


Oh thank God you are here...what do you think the best course of action is?

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thankyou mugz, CK and andrew...
can we get an injection of cal and ringers...and some abs...
even oral as long as we start soon!
thanks all...I am sweating bullets...
if we can start the ABs now..it would be best imo.
sulfa based would be best guess...ty:bowdown

[Katfish92]

a people doctor just told me I should give him mo-zyme. It is molybdenum 50 mcg. Is thhis safe to try?

[Katfish92]

I don't know squat about injections or meds or anything. That's why mugzeezma is picking him up. Kim you should contact mugzeezma and talk to her about it.

[Jackie in Tampa]

a people doctor just told me I should give him mo-zyme. It is molybdenum 50 mcg. Is thhis safe to try?

it bis not in my pharmacology books...but it is in my nutrition books...I will scan and post...

[Nancy in New York]

I don't know squat about injections or meds or anything. That's why mugzeezma is picking him up. Kim you should contact mugzeezma and talk to her about it.


How long until mugz gets there do you think...please tell her about kim contacting you...and the suggestions that Jackie made...

[Katfish92]

mugz said shell be here within the hour. Kim is calling mugz

[Jackie in Tampa]

part one

[ChicagoKim]

Oh thank God you are here...what do you think the best course of action is?
Hi, Nancy, :wave123

I just talked to Mugzeezmom. She's about to pick up Chuck. She will call me if he needs IV fluids and I will get the supplies and show her how to do it. She has experience with phlebotomy, so she should be able to draw blood if we need a blood test done. My vet can run the blood if hers won't. We can also get his poop tested if needed. Chuck is in good hands with Mugzeez. We're just limited in Illinois with our non-existent resources (if you don't want to surrender your squirrel).

Andrew is doing a spectacular job of caring for this little guy.

[Nancy in New York]

Hi, Nancy, :wave123

I just talked to Mugzeezmom. She's about to pick up Chuck. She will call me if he needs IV fluids and I will get the supplies and show her how to do it. She has experience with phlebotomy, so she should be able to draw blood if we need a blood test done. My vet can run the blood if hers won't. We can also get his poop tested if needed. Chuck is in good hands with Mugzeez. We're just limited in Illinois with our non-existent resources (if you don't want to surrender your squirrel).

Andrew is doing a spectacular job of caring for this little guy.

Wonderful Kim...I know that Chuck is in wonderful hands...thank you so very much...I am going to send you a pm...

[ChicagoKim]

Mugzeez,

As I mentioned to you, Loopy Squirrel had posted a video on drawing blood when Snubby was sick. The video has been moved or deleted from Photobucket, but here is the link (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=396511&postcount=111)to the post which describes the process. I will PM her and ask if she still has the video on file. I don't even know if drawing blood is needed for Chuck (any opinions?), but at least we'll be able to get it done if we have to.

Kim

EDIT: Loopy Squirrel isn't listed as a member. Anyone have contact info for her?

[SquirrelNut]

Again, the love and caring on this Board is truly amazing especially in the name of SQUIRRELS!

I think Obama should have some of these people here head his Obama Care and might make it actually work! LOL :jump

[Gina]

Just caught up on this thread. :Welcome Praying for Chuck. You sure found the right place for help.:grouphug I'll be checking up on his progress.

[Katfish92]

mugz is picking up chuck now. I have given him some mozyme and he has perked up. He is acting a little better.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:grouphug
mugz is picking up chuck now. I have given him some mozyme and he has perked up. He is acting a little better.

[Nancy in New York]

Oh God...please watch over Chuck...:Love_Icon

[momma2boo]

Hi, Nancy, :wave123

She has experience with phlebotomy, so she should be able to draw blood if we need a blood test done.

Mugz ... you were a phlebotomist? So was I! You would think that being a phlebotomist would've helped me give an injection to a squirrel but nope ... their skin is tough.

[Jackie in Tampa]

my vets seldom draw blood from sqs...
not as easy as it sounds so I have been told:peace

[ChicagoKim]

my vets seldom draw blood from sqs...
not as easy as it sounds so I have been told:peace

Jackie,

That groin/leg vein is very prominent, and it LOOKS like it should be fairly easy, but that wasn't the case for me and Snubby! I'm sure it can be done by someone with experience, unlike myself. Hopefully Mugz can do it just fine if we need to.

Kim

[4skwerlz]

If Chuck's blood is going to be tested, pls check for MBD. The hallmark of MBD is normal blood calcium but elevated phosphorus. However, since Chuck has been given calcium during the last 24 hours, his ca/phos levels may be NORMAL. Blood calcium will typically only be low if the sq is actually in the middle of a seizure or paralysis episode. The best way to check for MBD is with an x-ray to show bone loss or thinning.

[Katfish92]

chuck is with mugz now and she and kim are going to help him. I hope he will get better but if he doesn't then at least we did the best we could. Thanks to everyone who helped me out. You guys are great people and this forum is awesome. thanks again for your prayers and thoughts and peace out for now. I think I'll get some sleep. :)

-Andrew

[Nancy in New York]

chuck is with mugz now and she and kim are going to help him. I hope he will get better but if he doesn't then at least we did the best we could. Thanks to everyone who helped me out. You guys are great people and this forum is awesome. thanks again for your prayers and thoughts and peace out for now.

-Andrew


Awe Andrew...you have touched so many of our hearts with your commitment to Chuck...you are a real special person...I just now got my email where you wanted me to post the flowers....Sorry I was at work...:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug You and Chuck are in my prayers...

[ChicagoKim]

I'm meeting Mugz around 5 pm tonight to start sub-q fluids on Chuck. I'm sure Mugz will post about how he's doing.

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks for the update!!!:grouphug

[mugzeezma]

I'm meeting Mugz around 5 pm tonight to start sub-q fluids on Chuck. I'm sure Mugz will post about how he's doing.
Andrew is such a good Squappa what a nice young man! his mom and dad are very nice people as well and all are praying hard for Chuck
Andrew when was the last time Chuck peed or pooed? I can't believe I forgot to ask that!
Chuck is not well...very dehydrated I have gotten at least 8ccs homade pedialyte he just wants to curl into a ball
his lips are blueish
Mugzi is such a good nurse.
He is all over Chuck grooming him and little Chuck just chortles and was talking to Mugzi I think he just wants to be left alone

[CritterMom]

Um, I would keep Mugz away until we know what Chuck's problems are, and I would also practice good handwashing...

[Jackie in Tampa]

did anyone start ABs yet?
if not, has anyone called a vet for meds?
please ...no attempts at drawing blood....

[Jackie in Tampa]

do we have a vet visit lined up?
do we have meds up there?
come on peeps...what's happening?
need an update...
have we heard back from dwight yet..
we should not have moved chuck if there is nothing to help him...

[Jackie in Tampa]

I have contacted Dwight...he has a vet that will come to his house...
he is 75 miles away from aurora...he may have a vet nearer...but it's getting late...
he is south cook county? i think that's what he said...my batterey died:soapbox
he is ready for chuck...can we find a driver? or at lleast call him in hopes he can refer a vet.:grouphug
how is chuck?
do you think he can last an hour in the car?
please continue with hydration...
he will need rice buddies or hand warmers for the ride and rescue remedy may or may not be needed....
dwight has ABs:alright.gif
can we get an update? I am wringing my hands...so nervous...

[Jackie in Tampa]

NIN is on phone with dwight now...
getting address etc....
he has 60 years rehabbing experience...:bowdown that's alot!:)
Bless him:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

OK Jackie...I just spoke with Dwight and I told him that we will try to get in touch with Mugz or Kim and they can call and find out where he is located. He said that his wife will look up for someone closer to them, but I think he comes so highly recommended, unless he says the rehabber he is recommending is excellent...Lets let the women discuss with Dwight so as not to confuse him...

[Nancy in New York]

Is there anyway that Chuck can be seen by Dwight...
This guy came highly recommended and if Chuck is going to have any chance...it might just be with Dwight...
Dwight told Jackie too that a vet will get to his house tonight if needed...This is in the best interest of Chuck that he get into "professional" hands...Mugz I think you said that you were going out tonight? I think...if so, can Kim get him to Dwight? I'm not even sure where you are all located...but here is his number...I have to run out for a while...708 758-2761 Please at least call him...

[Jackie in Tampa]

does chuck have meds yet?

[Chipmunk_lover]

i am getting both yes and nos to lilac being poisonous...can someone do some research on this for me?Leigh are you there?
we need pics posted to identify flowers


Hi Jackie, i have lilac in my garden i have posted some pictures from last year. I had heard it is safe for Squirrels and gave some to my Chippies, just as few branches.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syringa

better pictures on link above

Katfish92 I hope Chuck will get better

[ChicagoKim]

Hi everyone,

I was at Mugz's house from 5:30 until about 7 pm. I had to run errands after that, so sorry for the late update.

Mugz was able to get a lot of fluids in him orally before I got there. 25cc I think she estimated. But he was still looking VERY dehydrated and hadn't peed at all. We sub-q'd another 24cc. He took some Esbilac, too. He was still as Andrew had described which is pretty lethargic, but would perk up from time to time. He is such a sweet squirrel.

I brought a wooden house, lots of fleece, and a couple sock buddies for him. Mugz is keeping him toasty.

Since I was just assisting by getting the sub-q supplies and such, I'll let Mugz address the posts about Dwight.

We talked with Tomo while I was there. She is suggesting Sulfatrim (sp?). I will call my vet tomorrow and see if I can get it from him. He didn't have any trouble giving me the sub-q supplies (he put it on my Snubby account), but I've never asked him for meds. He used to be a rehabber, so he understands and wants to help as much as he can without jeopardizing his license.

Gotta run. Attaching a couple pics I took while I was there.

Kim

[ChicagoKim]

One more thing.

I spoke to Andrew tonight and he said there is an Easter Lilly in the house. He couldn't find any bite marks on it, but there was a small amount of squirrel vomit near it.

Back in a bit.

Kim

[Anne]

Good to know that Chuck is getting help. What a relief! Appears he is in good hands, Handsome fellow, Chuck, loved the pictures. :thankyou
Waiting to hear back about his progress.:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug to all helping.

[mpetys]

I am just reading about Chuck and I am hoping and praying for a recovery. Thank you all who are helping Chuck.

Michele in Tampa

[mugzeezma]

Chuck is still takin a lickin and keeps on tickin

subQ'd 32 cc's since 6pm started him on goats milk Esbilac, I had to bring him to the gig in a cat crate and kept him on a heating pad in the equipment room so I could Sub Q more fluids (lactate ringers)and push Goatsmilk Esbilac which he seems to tolerate fairly well. He is not happy with me but is getting used to it. He misses Andrew I'm sure. Chuck meows like a cat...such a sweet woeful sound. He's a very vocal boy! cute cute cute and Mugzi ADORES HIM!!!
Chuck is a real sweet heart thru all of this.
Kim (ChicagoSq) and I will work on getting Sulfatrim for him tomorrow if he makes it thru the night. I have a lot more fluids and nutrients to push yet. A long night awaits. He is right next to my bed. Chuck is very thin and I worry so much for this baby.
I thought Mugzi was thin ....
Tomo suggested waiting on Abs as we are trying to flush the toxins as it were. Tomorrow is another day...please say prayers or this sweet baby.

Andrew if you're out there I want you to know we are doing all we can for little Chuck. I felt the love you and your family have for him and that is not taken lightly. keep sending us your hope and prayers

[mugzeezma]

About Dwight...he is 79 years old and referred a vet who he said was waiting for our call. I called and she neither answered or called back.
welcome to Wildlife care and management in Illinois.
You think I should should hit it hard for that rehab license folks???
I'm thinking this is a sign
and I wanted to do it anyway

[mugzeezma]

About Dwight...he is 79 years old and referred a vet who he said was waiting for our call. I called and she neither answered or called back.
welcome to Wildlife care and management in Illinois.
You think I should should hit it hard for that rehab license folks???
I'm thinking this is a sign
and I wanted to do it anyway
ps
Dwight simply referred me to his vet and also said squirrels can't vomit.
HUH????

[Nancy in New York]

One more thing.

I spoke to Andrew tonight and he said there is an Easter Lilly in the house. He couldn't find any bite marks on it, but there was a small amount of squirrel vomit near it.

Back in a bit.

Kim

Lily Plant Toxicity http://www.michvet.com/library/emergency_lily_toxicity.asp

Information For Pet Owners < Back to Article Index
Key Points
Diagnosis of lily ingestion is based solely on the history of witnessing the ingestion of a portion of the plant, or seeing part of the plant in their vomit
It is imperative to seek emergency medical treatment as soon as possible to ensure proper treatment. In approximately 2-4 days after ingestion of the plant, signs of kidney failure may begin which can include loss of appetite, depression, vomiting, and lack of urination
If enough toxin is absorbed to cause acute kidney failure, then the prognosis is guarded to poor
Our emergency team is available 24 hours daily, every day, to treat any type of emergency situation, including lily plant toxicity



What is it?
Numerous houseplants can be toxic to our pets, with virtually all species of lilies causing acute kidney failure in cats.
Other pets, such as dogs and rabbits, do not seem to be affected. Examples of these plants are the Easter Lily (Lilium longiflorum), Tiger Lily ( Lilium tigrinum), Day Lily (Lilium hemerocallus), Asian lily (Lily asiatic spp.) and Rubrum Lily ( Lilium rubrum).
Lilies usually have smooth, linear, leathery green leaves that grow in a clump at the base of the plant or that arise along a tall stem.
The flowers are white, yellow or orange and may be present on the plant for long periods of time during the summer.
The toxic principle within the plant is unknown, but all parts of the plant, including the leaves, stem and flower, appear to be toxic.

Clinical Signs
After a cat has eaten part of a lily plant, signs of stomach upset (vomiting, lack of appetite, or lethargy) may be present.
It is imperative to seek emergency medical treatment as soon as possible to ensure proper treatment. In approximately 2-4 days after ingestion of the plant, signs of kidney failure may begin which can include loss of appetite, depression, vomiting, and lack of urination.

Diagnosis
Diagnosis of lily ingestion is based solely on the history of witnessing the ingestion of a portion of the plant, or seeing part of the plant in the vomit.
There are no known diagnostic tests to check for lily toxicity.
If your cat has evidence of kidney failure, based on blood tests, it is important to tell your veterinarian if there is the possibility your cat could have eaten part of a lily.
Some laboratory values that will be checked to look for kidney failure are blood urea nitrogen (BUN), creatinine, and phosphorus. A urine analysis will also be performed to look at the concentration of the urine (specific gravity) and any abnormal cells that may be identified under the microscope that can indicate kidney failure.

Treatment
Treatment must be performed early in order to be successful, and focuses primarily on emptying the stomach within 4 hours of ingestion of the plant, and administering medications to prevent absorption of the toxin from the gastrointestinal tract. When you call your veterinarian or an emergency clinic, you may be directed to induce vomiting at home using hydrogen peroxide, or you may be advised to bring your cat into the hospital right away.
It is also essential to provide intravenous fluid therapy for diuresis for at least the first 24 hours to make sure that the kidneys continue to function appropriately.
If the stomach is not emptied, and if medications are not given to prevent absorption of the toxin, kidney failure usually begins within 2-4 days. At that point there are few treatment options, and the mortality (death) rate from lily toxicity is high.

Complications of Ingestion
Some cats who experience a mild toxicity may experience mild to moderate kidney failure. In this case they may need to stay in an intensive care unit for several days to receive intravenous fluid therapy and medications to ensure that the kidneys continue to produce urine.
The damage to the kidneys can be permanent, but if the damage is not severe, the cat may be able to recover over time. This may require that the cat be monitored closely with routine blood work to assess kidney function, and may require continued treatment at home with subcutaneous fluid therapy (fluids administered under the skin using a needle). Kidney transplantation can be a treatment option if the kidneys do not appear to be functioning. Transplantation will only be done once there are no more poisons in the system, so that the transplanted kidney does not also develop dysfunction.

Prognosis
If emptying the stomach and administering medications to prevent absorption of the toxin are effective, the prognosis for recovery is excellent.
If enough toxin is absorbed to lead to acute kidney failure, then the prognosis is guarded to poor, and the mortality rate is high. This makes it essential to seek emergency care immediately after ingestion of the lily plant.

[CritterMom]

Boy, this sounds just about right, doesn't it? I am hoping that the fact that Chuck peed all over, finally, after being flooded with fluids, to be a good sign.

[Nancy in New York]

Boy, this sounds just about right, doesn't it? I am hoping that the fact that Chuck peed all over, finally, after being flooded with fluids, to be a good sign.

I think this may be it....

[Nancy in New York]

At the risk of offending...while I'm sure that Mugz is curious about Chuck, please remember that Chuck has never been around another squirrel, he's in a strange place, away from his daddy, and extremely critical...perhaps it's best to eliminate that stress on his little body...dark..quiet..warm.:Love_Icon

[mugzeezma]

Lily Plant Toxicity http://www.michvet.com/library/emergency_lily_toxicity.asp

Information For Pet Owners < Back to Article Index
Key Points
Diagnosis of lily ingestion is based solely on the history of witnessing the ingestion of a portion of the plant, or seeing part of the plant in their vomit
It is imperative to seek emergency medical treatment as soon as possible to ensure proper treatment. In approximately 2-4 days after ingestion of the plant, signs of kidney failure may begin which can include loss of appetite, depression, vomiting, and lack of urination
If enough toxin is absorbed to cause acute kidney failure, then the prognosis is guarded to poor
Our emergency team is available 24 hours daily, every day, to treat any type of emergency situation, including lily plant toxicity



What is it?
Numerous houseplants can be toxic to our pets, with virtually all species of lilies causing acute kidney failure in cats.
Other pets, such as dogs and rabbits, do not seem to be affected. Examples of these plants are the Easter Lily (Lilium longiflorum), Tiger Lily ( Lilium tigrinum), Day Lily (Lilium hemerocallus), Asian lily (Lily asiatic spp.) and Rubrum Lily ( Lilium rubrum).
Lilies usually have smooth, linear, leathery green leaves that grow in a clump at the base of the plant or that arise along a tall stem.
The flowers are white, yellow or orange and may be present on the plant for long periods of time during the summer.
The toxic principle within the plant is unknown, but all parts of the plant, including the leaves, stem and flower, appear to be toxic.

Clinical Signs
After a cat has eaten part of a lily plant, signs of stomach upset (vomiting, lack of appetite, or lethargy) may be present.
It is imperative to seek emergency medical treatment as soon as possible to ensure proper treatment. In approximately 2-4 days after ingestion of the plant, signs of kidney failure may begin which can include loss of appetite, depression, vomiting, and lack of urination.

Diagnosis
Diagnosis of lily ingestion is based solely on the history of witnessing the ingestion of a portion of the plant, or seeing part of the plant in the vomit.
There are no known diagnostic tests to check for lily toxicity.
If your cat has evidence of kidney failure, based on blood tests, it is important to tell your veterinarian if there is the possibility your cat could have eaten part of a lily.
Some laboratory values that will be checked to look for kidney failure are blood urea nitrogen (BUN), creatinine, and phosphorus. A urine analysis will also be performed to look at the concentration of the urine (specific gravity) and any abnormal cells that may be identified under the microscope that can indicate kidney failure.

Treatment
Treatment must be performed early in order to be successful, and focuses primarily on emptying the stomach within 4 hours of ingestion of the plant, and administering medications to prevent absorption of the toxin from the gastrointestinal tract. When you call your veterinarian or an emergency clinic, you may be directed to induce vomiting at home using hydrogen peroxide, or you may be advised to bring your cat into the hospital right away.
It is also essential to provide intravenous fluid therapy for diuresis for at least the first 24 hours to make sure that the kidneys continue to function appropriately.
If the stomach is not emptied, and if medications are not given to prevent absorption of the toxin, kidney failure usually begins within 2-4 days. At that point there are few treatment options, and the mortality (death) rate from lily toxicity is high.

Complications of Ingestion
Some cats who experience a mild toxicity may experience mild to moderate kidney failure. In this case they may need to stay in an intensive care unit for several days to receive intravenous fluid therapy and medications to ensure that the kidneys continue to produce urine.
The damage to the kidneys can be permanent, but if the damage is not severe, the cat may be able to recover over time. This may require that the cat be monitored closely with routine blood work to assess kidney function, and may require continued treatment at home with subcutaneous fluid therapy (fluids administered under the skin using a needle). Kidney transplantation can be a treatment option if the kidneys do not appear to be functioning. Transplantation will only be done once there are no more poisons in the system, so that the transplanted kidney does not also develop dysfunction.

Prognosis
If emptying the stomach and administering medications to prevent absorption of the toxin are effective, the prognosis for recovery is excellent.
If enough toxin is absorbed to lead to acute kidney failure, then the prognosis is guarded to poor, and the mortality rate is high. This makes it essential to seek emergency care immediately after ingestion of the lily plant.

Woke up to the pitter patter of little feet from inside the ca crate next to my bed.
When I looked inside there was a very snarly wide awake Chuck and he is seriously PISSED OFF !!!!

He's turned the corner:wahoo
I'm thinking I'll need chain mail gauntlets to handle him today !!!!! LOL

[prncsbabs1]

Oh thank goodness :multi ....I mean that he is feeling better...not the snarly part...lol

[SquirrelNut]

Wonderful news! Ugh, my neighbor always gives me an Easter Lily for Easter. It was on my countertop. I somewhat kept an eye on Nos when he was out w/it. I finally threw it out as I was a little concerned about it!

How do animals and/or squirrels in the wild keep from dying from consuming "poisonous" plants, etc.?

Chuck we are all pulling for you! Thanks so much for ALL of those who care!:Love_Icon

[4skwerlz]

Wonderful news! :thumbsup

[ChicagoKim]

:wave

Now THAT'S what I wanted to wake up to!!!!

Kim



He's turned the corner:wahoo

[mugzeezma]

:wave

Now THAT'S what I wanted to wake up to!!!!

Kim
I / We owe a huge debt off gratitude to you Kim. If it wasn't for you I may very likely wouldn't have pulled this off!
You are an ANGEL!
Do you still think we should give him Ab's? Anyone?
Chuck is still compramised ,weak and thin but he has a really cranky attitude until he's cuddled then he just curls into me. His eyes are staying open now for a change. You know he had on paw inside deaths door yesterday.
I am ging him another subQ and then Esbilac w/ goats milk...as much as he'll take. He was not interested in avocado or his block.
I'm thinking I will pretty much wear Chuck in my pockets when he is better.

poor kid is so disoriented but responds very nicely to slow gentle movements letting him smell me and soft lullaby voice.

[4skwerlz]

Do you still think we should give him Ab's? Anyone?

My 2 cents is that since kidney damage is a possibility with this type of poisoning, I would not give ANY meds at this time. Esp since there is no evidence of infection.

[island rehabber]

I'm going to agree with that -- no need for AB's and they could harm rather than help. May I bow down 1000 times to all who came to Chuck's rescue...you are awesome people! :bowdown:bowdown:bowdown:bowdown:bowdown etc...
The more fluids he'll take the better.....gotta get every shred of that plant out of his system. :thumbsup

[mpetys]

How do animals and/or squirrels in the wild keep from dying from consuming "poisonous" plants, etc.?

I think I read somewhere that the little ones learn from their mommas what is safe and what is not. And when they are not raised by their "biological" mommas but instead by their human mommas (and pappas), that they miss out on this instruction. Kinda like how if raised by their mommas, she will instill in them a fear of dogs and cats, but if raised in a human household with dogs and cats, they do not have that natural fear.

Michele in Tampa

[Jackie in Tampa]

thank you for the updates...I get so nervous...ugh!
Thank you both for helping Chuck...
I guess we are on watch with his kidneys...*sigh*
and of course I know you know...push the fluids, but I have to say it anyway!:tilt
Thank you thank you...
Hang in there little Chuck.:Love_Icon

[momma2boo]

I agree with no ABs if there is no sign of infection since they are hard on the kidneys. Push fluids to help flush out the toxins, that's my advice.

NICE JOB Kathie ... and Kim. :Love_Icon
I'm proud of you Kathie! I'd kiss you if you were close enough! xxxxxxx

[momma2boo]

I was typing while Jackie was posting. :D
Great minds think alike.

[KinshouKitsune]

I have been watching and reading this thread. I am soooooi happy to hear that he is finally showing signs of getting better. I've had my thoughts on him for a while now. Hopefully he'll be right as rain soon. I'm sure he misses his daddy whole bunches!

Heres to a happy reunion soon!

[Tomo]

The only way you will know if his kidneys are compromised is via blood test. You need to draw blood and have the lab run his values against rat values. If his BUN, Creatinine, or Phos are high, then he is suffering from renal failure and normally should be put on an IV flush. At the same time, they can become anemic, and their thyroid can be thrown off, so not only doing CBC, but a SMA, a glucose panel and thyroid will give a more complete picture of his health. Also it is normal that if their blood count is low, they can be transfused with the blood of another squirrel, but that can only be done by vets with the proper equipment. Just continue to keep him warm because the more fluid that runs through his body, the colder he will be.

If continuing to sub-q and, once he is hydrated, you do not notice him urinating, a good diuretic is calcium. Do not use potassium because dosage is intricate. So you may want to supplement calcium as well.

It is good news to hear that he was up this morning and more awake. He is thin, so even though you are giving him the goat milk formula, don't forget about the vanilla Ensure Plus. Either he will hate it or he will love it and it will put weight on him faster than any formula on the market.

It also looked like he may have some hair loss on his side, which could be caused by low calcium levels if not caused by repeated rubbing against an object such as the entrance to a nest box, etc. The calcium "may" help with this as well.

Hoping to hear more good news later today! Big Hugs and Big Kisses to Chuck! :grouphug :Love_Icon

[momma2boo]

The only way you will know if his kidneys are compromised is via blood test. You need to draw blood and have the lab run his values against rat values. If his BUN, Creatinine, or Phos are high, then he is suffering from renal failure and normally should be put on an IV flush. At the same time, they can become anemic, and their thyroid can be thrown off, so not only doing CBC, but a SMA, a glucose panel and thyroid will give a more complete picture of his health. Also it is normal that if their blood count is low, they can be transfused with the blood of another squirrel, but that can only be done by vets with the proper equipment. Just continue to keep him warm because the more fluid that runs through his body, the colder he will be.

If continuing to sub-q and, once he is hydrated, you do not notice him urinating, a good diuretic is calcium. Do not use potassium because dosage is intricate. So you may want to supplement calcium as well.

It is good news to hear that he was up this morning and more awake. He is thin, so even though you are giving him the goat milk formula, don't forget about the vanilla Ensure Plus. Either he will hate it or he will love it and it will put weight on him faster than any formula on the market.

It also looked like he may have some hair loss on his side, which could be caused by low calcium levels if not caused by repeated rubbing against an object such as the entrance to a nest box, etc. The calcium "may" help with this as well.

Hoping to hear more good news later today! Big Hugs and Big Kisses to Chuck! :grouphug :Love_Icon

Wow! You are something else! I'm impressed. :thumbsup

[Gina]

So glad to hear that Chuck is showing signs of improvement. Will keep checking back. My gosh, this place is sooooo stressfull but I can't help but read the scary threads so I can add my prayers to everyone elses.

[ChicagoKim]

It also looked like he may have some hair loss on his side, which could be caused by low calcium levels if not caused by repeated rubbing against an object such as the entrance to a nest box, etc. The calcium "may" help with this as well.
:grouphug :Love_Icon

Tomo,

His fur was just a little fluffed up when I took the picture. I don't believe he has any hair loss.

Kim

[Nancy in New York]

Tomo,

His fur was just a little fluffed up when I took the picture. I don't believe he has any hair loss.

Kim
:wave123 Tomo may be referring to the photos on page 4...

[Squirrely Steve]

Hello :wave123
So Glad Chuck is getting better :thumbsup
Been worried and praying for him :grouphug
I been checking on him when ever I can.:)
I have been thinking :thinking
I have used Charcoal for my Chuck when he got into some Iburofen
dont know if that will help Chuck or not here is a link to check out it does a lot
http://healingtools.tripod.com/thn5.html
and I have used Milk thistle on me dont know if that will help Chuck :dono
here is some information
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/silymarin/ns_patient-milkthistle
Praying he gets better :grouphug

[CritterMom]

Hello :wave123
So Glad Chuck is getting better :thumbsup
Been worried and praying for him :grouphug
I been checking on him when ever I can.:)
I have been thinking :thinking
I have used Charcoal for my Chuck when he got into some Iburofen
dont know if that will help Chuck or not here is a link to check out it does a lot
http://healingtools.tripod.com/thn5.html
and I have used Milk thistle on me dont know if that will help Chuck :dono
here is some information
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/silymarin/ns_patient-milkthistle
Praying he gets better :grouphug

I have used milk thistle before with my parrots. Their liver values can get out of whack and the milk thistle works well. I know it also has effect on the kidneys - might be something interesting to look at for long term.

[mugzeezma]

The only way you will know if his kidneys are compromised is via blood test. You need to draw blood and have the lab run his values against rat values. If his BUN, Creatinine, or Phos are high, then he is suffering from renal failure and normally should be put on an IV flush. At the same time, they can become anemic, and their thyroid can be thrown off, so not only doing CBC, but a SMA, a glucose panel and thyroid will give a more complete picture of his health. Also it is normal that if their blood count is low, they can be transfused with the blood of another squirrel, but that can only be done by vets with the proper equipment. Just continue to keep him warm because the more fluid that runs through his body, the colder he will be.

If continuing to sub-q and, once he is hydrated, you do not notice him urinating, a good diuretic is calcium. Do not use potassium because dosage is intricate. So you may want to supplement calcium as well.

It is good news to hear that he was up this morning and more awake. He is thin, so even though you are giving him the goat milk formula, don't forget about the vanilla Ensure Plus. Either he will hate it or he will love it and it will put weight on him faster than any formula on the market.

It also looked like he may have some hair loss on his side, which could be caused by low calcium levels if not caused by repeated rubbing against an object such as the entrance to a nest box, etc. The calcium "may" help with this as well.

Hoping to hear more good news later today! Big Hugs and Big Kisses to Chuck! :grouphug :Love_Icon
Oooh thanks for reminding me about the vanilla Ensure Plus Alexandra. I feel he is very underweight and possibly undernourished. He has nowhere near the bulk and muscle tone Mugzi is does and Mugzi is a rail but tough as nails. Chuck has the same molt pattern fur regrowth Mugzi does too.
I am continuing SubQ 3xs daily and pedialyte by mouth in between feedings

[Nancy in New York]

Is he doing any better now than he was? Does he appear to have perked up a little? Is he sleeping alot? :D :D
Give him a little kiss for me and tell him we are all praying for him...:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[mugzeezma]

Is he doing any better now than he was? Does he appear to have perked up a little? Is he sleeping alot? :D :D
Give him a little kiss for me and tell him we are all praying for him...:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

oh, he is so stressed. He growls at every movement even though I keep him in the quietest place...my room. I have him in a large rabbit cage.Andrew told me he hates small cages. Well Andrew, Chuck hardly leaves his box right now so a large cage would do nothing right now but make him harder to catch. Chuck needs quiet and rest for awhile until I get him back to normal. It's going to take some time kiddo. Each hour he seems more alert but is still very quiet

[CritterMom]

May I suggest Rescue Remedy He will get better faster without the stress.

[Nancy in New York]

oh, he is so stressed. He growls at every movement even though I keep him in the quietest place...my room. I have him in a large rabbit cage.Andrew told me he hates small cages. Well Andrew, Chuck hardly leaves his box right now so a large cage would do nothing right now but make him harder to catch. Chuck needs quiet and rest for awhile until I get him back to normal. It's going to take some time kiddo. Each hour he seems more alert but is still very quiet
Thanks for the update...can you use a little rescue remedy on him to keep the stress down?:bowdown :bowdown

[mugzeezma]

Thanks for the update...can you use a little rescue remedy on him to keep the stress down?:bowdown :bowdown
EEESH and I have a 20oz bottle right on my desk looking at me
duh what's 2 and 2???
I'll try it on him next feeding. He is still hiding and sleep a lot. Hell on wheels until I actually can lay a hand on him and pet him the he totally relaxes. He has the biggest eyes I have ever seen!!!! He's adorable:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

EEESH and I have a 20oz bottle right on my desk looking at me
duh what's 2 and 2???
I'll try it on him next feeding. He is still hiding and sleep a lot. Hell on wheels until I actually can lay a hand on him and pet him the he totally relaxes. He has the biggest eyes I have ever seen!!!! He's adorable:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

Awe just keep loving that baby...I bet Andrew is lost without him...:shakehead Just get him back on his feet and feeling better...:Love_Icon :grouphug

[Tomo]

Tomo,

His fur was just a little fluffed up when I took the picture. I don't believe he has any hair loss.

Kim


Excellent! Was just a bit worried. :)

[mugzeezma]

Excellent! Was just a bit worried. :)

Actually he has the same molt pattern Mugzi does but Chuck's fur is thin on his flanks and shoulder still are thin
At what point do you think he should be tested for kidney disfunction.
Problem here is we have nowhere to send it.

[ChicagoKim]

At what point do you think he should be tested for kidney disfunction.
Problem here is we have nowhere to send it.
Actually we can send it to my vet. He will run it as a rat. But it has to be brought to the vet very soon after the draw (can't remember the amount of time). This might necessitate doing the draw at my house.

He would sell me me the vials and syringes. We would need to know what tests exactly to know what vials we would need up front.

But that is the least of our problems.....

Drawing blood from a squirrel is known to be difficult. So that's where I turn this topic over to you, Mugz. I either posted or PM'd you with Loopy Squirrel's description of how to do it. Her video is no longer available.

When Snubby was so sick, it was determined that we needed blood from him. One of my fellow feral cat workers came to help me and we could not get in that vein. But we have no experience either. From what I hear, even with experience it is a :censored !!!!

What do you think Mugz? Tomo? Senior members? Others?

Kim

[Nancy in New York]

A person without experience should never try to draw blood from a squirrel. My vet has often had trouble getting blood and she has many years experience. I would think it would actually require the animal be under anesthesia to prevent too much stress on an animal that is easily stressed and already under a lot of stress because of his illness. This should be discouraged unless a vet can do this blood draw.

[mugzeezma]

Actually we can send it to my vet. He will run it as a rat. But it has to be brought to the vet very soon after the draw (can't remember the amount of time). This might necessitate doing the draw at my house.

He would sell me me the vials and syringes. We would need to know what tests exactly to know what vials we would need up front.

But that is the least of our problems.....

Drawing blood from a squirrel is known to be difficult. So that's where I turn this topic over to you, Mugz. I either posted or PM'd you with Loopy Squirrel's description of how to do it. Her video is no longer available.

When Snubby was so sick, it was determined that we needed blood from him. One of my fellow feral cat workers came to help me and we could not get in that vein. But we have no experience either. From what I hear, even with experience it is a :censored !!!!

What do you think Mugz? Tomo? Senior members? Others?

Kim
I can research how. I've drawn and stuck humans horse dogs and now a squirrel????
As far as I know we have some time on this. If he sustained kidney damage from this incident what could we do about it anyway except support?

BTW
I let Chuck out of his cage in my room. He hopped from my hands to the bed and peed and peed and peed then he ran up onto my shoulder and tinkled down my back.
Does this mean we're engaged?

[Jackie in Tampa]

was the urine clear...that's very important...

[ChicagoKim]

A person without experience should never try to draw blood from a squirrel. My vet has often had trouble getting blood and she has many years experience. I would think it would actually require the animal be under anesthesia to prevent too much stress on an animal that is easily stressed and already under a lot of stress because of his illness. This should be discouraged unless a vet can do this blood draw.

We really had no other choice at the time.

[ChicagoKim]

I let Chuck out of his cage in my room. He hopped from my hands to the bed and peed and peed and peed then he ran up onto my shoulder and tinkled down my back.
Does this mean we're engaged?

:rotflMaybe, Mugz!!! :rotfl

[Nancy in New York]

We really had no other choice at the time.

No...I mean with little Chuck...can you get a vet to do this???

[mugzeezma]

was the urine clear...that's very important...

yes, straw colored to clear ..unremarkable
He did a very few poops
dark w/ greenish tinge and slimy w/ mustardy mucous

I let Chuck out and about he tried hopping about and could barely jump up the 15-16" to my chair. He fell back . His ears were still wilted looking not up and perky but he was the happiest I have seen him yet.
He is still SO weak!.
He did eat a bit of walnut earlier and hasn't touched OOPs he just angrily snatched the avocado from my fingers

hehehe Territorial little snarly Devil!

i stuffed him in a booty and fed him 10ccs of the vanilla Ensure+ and he was more accepting of that than the goats milk Esbilac

I made some Booballs for him and Mugzi for 2morrow

[ChicagoKim]

No...I mean with little Chuck...can you get a vet to do this???

Not in Illinois. Illinois is super-strict about taking a vet's license if they attempt to work on a squirrel without a rehabber's license. Believe me, I was in a state after calling for days on end trying to help Snubby. Mugz has run into the same brick walls.

Mugz is not inexperienced, so this is a different situation as I see it.

But, as Mugz said (and now I'm talking mainly to Tomo...), is a blood draw to determine kidney function necessary if all we are going to do is flush him with more fluids? Seems like we're going to do that regardless, right? Don't mean to sound offensive at all... I just don't know the reasons.

If he's doing much better, should we just see how things go for a bit?

Kim

[Anne]

I would say the engagement is differently on :rotfl Oh, BTW-I would growl at you too if you were sub-Q'ing me 3 times a day :poke :poke
So very glad he is doing better :thumbsup :grouphug :grouphug

[momma2boo]

Boo-balls .... sounds like, well, um .... my baby's package. :)

Hope they enjoy the nummy nut balls tomorrow. Let me know how they go over.

[mugzeezma]

No...I mean with little Chuck...can you get a vet to do this???
No vets here will touch a squirrel unless you relinquish the animal to a wildlife rehabber(few and far between). Therein lies the dilemma.
The Wildlife Centers here are high volume rehabilitators. they do not have time or the facility for a soft release of an imprinted animal. Animals here are released on public Forest Preserve District land. I have seen the release boxes they set out seasonally and they are visible to walking paths. that being the case, an imprinted animal that was released that way would seek the human companionship of a person that may not welcome or understand that attention. The animal could be injured by such contact and suffer a long torturous death.
It's for this this reason and many other valid points that wildlife laws are important.
With Chuck pancaking on my shoulder now,:Love_Icon I see no way he could straightened out and completely released in 120 days. That's why we made the decision to try to save him ourselves and damn the torpedoes.

Little devil is getting better by the hour. i wonder if he'll still love me after another subQ?:D

[mugzeezma]

Not in Illinois. Illinois is super-strict about taking a vet's license if they attempt to work on a squirrel without a rehabber's license. Believe me, I was in a state after calling for days on end trying to help Snubby. Mugz has run into the same brick walls.

Mugz is not inexperienced, so this is a different situation as I see it.

But, as Mugz said (and now I'm talking mainly to Tomo...), is a blood draw to determine kidney function necessary if all we are going to do is flush him with more fluids? Seems like we're going to do that regardless, right? Don't mean to sound offensive at all... I just don't know the reasons.

If he's doing much better, should we just see how things go for a bit?

Kim

Kim I think we should wait for a bit. His counts would be pretty dilute right now. I have to be carful to make sure he gets high quality nutrition to offset flushing his 'lytes.

We are walking a tightrope here as far as how long we can keep an animal healthy safely for all involved.

kim give me a call tomorrow and lets catch up. Andy wants to stop by and see Chuck sometime in the morning. My heart breaks for him but what's best for Chuck is another path. I'll cross that bridge when we get there