Bean is chewing her leg to pieces

[grinn75]

She is chewing non-stop and now has a good size wound on the outside of her right ankle. She also is chewin on the left ankle but not as much. If anyone knows how to make an e-collar I would be eternally grateful. I can't keep restraining her, she's getting very mad. I just need to get her to stop long enough for me to get this thing figured out or get her to a vet. I will try to upload some pics shortly.

[Sissy]

How about using a plastic milk jug. Maybe you could cut out the fan pattern and then tape the outside edges to it won't cut and then size it to the size you need.

[Sissy]

Sorry I'm not familiar with Bean, but is the baby paralyzed or in pain or having leg problems, that would cause it to chew on it's self?

[grinn75]

She has permanent nerve damage along her spine which affects her left leg. She doesn't use it very well so the vet said she better as a pet instead of releasing her. I think she is in pain, it's right on the joint. She is chewing the left leg a little but since she can't reach it as well it's not as bad. Here are some pics of her right ankle. She wouldn't hold still long enough to get pics of the left but it is not nearly as bad.
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[Sissy]

I think I read somewhere that when nerves are damaged such as her's that sometimes they tingle like when your foot or hand is asleep. Wonder if her legs are doing that and it is causing pain or odd sensations that make her want to chew on them. JMHO. Poor baby. Have you had any luck with finding something to make an E-collar out of.

[grinn75]

No I've tried a dixie cup and card board but I don't know how to secure it. I'm not sure if I need string or tape or what. I only have cat e collars so I'm at a loss.

[Sissy]

Do you have any Bach's Rescue Remedy or something to help calm her down?

[Sissy]

Maybe this will help also. Look at post #80
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19684&page=4

[grinn75]

Thank goodness she is finally asleep. I seriously thought she was going to chew her leg off. I think I may have made it worse by putting antibiotic ointment on it. She wasn't going to town on it before that. Probably irritated her. Oh I don't know what to do with her. If she is in pain then what next? She's only 4 and half months old. I don't want her to be in pain so I'm not sure what comes next. Pain meds? Steroids? I dont' think it's boredom she gets plenty of stimulation and besides I don't think it would be bilatteral if it was a boredom issue. I wish I had pics or video of how she walks so folks could tell if they think it is related to her nerve damage. Too much stress on the ankle joints?:dono

[Loopy Squirrel]

You could use the dixie cup idea but cut the bottom out and then cut the cup along the seam line to the opening so that you can adjust it tighter. You can tape it back together w/ something like duck tape. What I would do then is to poke small holes around the the end of the bottom of the cup where the squirrels head would go through. The feed some long a gauze strip through the holes (in & out) and then you can tie the excess to make it tight enough so the squirrel can't get it off but loose enough not to choke.

[Loopy Squirrel]

Steroids may help if there is swelling that could be pinching the nerve. Pain meds would also be an option. It is possible that she may have moved a certain way causing the nerve to pinch. She really does need to be looked at so that she can get some relief.

[grinn75]

Do you think I should still do this tonight since she's sleeping now? or should I wait until tomorrow morning? Once the wounds are healed and the collar comes off do you think she will just go back to it? I don't know if I should take her to the vet or not. I'm such an over protective momma, I don't know if I'm over reacting.

[Loopy Squirrel]

I would leave her alone for tonight if she is already sleeping. I am concerned though with the fact that she started doing this. It really leads me to believe that there is a pain issue going on and it should be addressed. She may have just moved or jumped or simply turned in a bad way causing this "sudden" pain. The fact that she has had this nerve damage since she was little but until recently it has only affected the way in which she walks makes me wonder if she did something to herself that is causing swelling and/or pain. I would talk to the vet and see if he may be willing to start her w/ a short course of steroids to reduce the inflammation and a pain med that can be given along w/ the steroid. This really could end up being a chronic issue for you and her.

[grinn75]

She has had the issue with her left leg since she started walking. I went to release her and she had so much trouble getting around in the tree tops and on narrow surfaces I decided to take her to a vet and see if it was something that could be fixed or she could adapt to. The vet told me it was nerve damage and not malformed bone so she should not be released.
I first noticed the wound about 4 or 5 days ago and thought she had scraped it on something. I applied A & D ointment and decided to watch it. Then a couple of days ago I noticed the other ankle had a wound also and I suspected her chewing. I finally caught her in the act last night but it looked okay this morning. Of course tonight is when she went crazy on it.
I really hope this is something that she can live with and can be managed with meds or supplements. I will call the vet and try to get her in tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on what I find out.

[grinn75]

Here's a couple of other pics of her.
The first two is her typical stance. She shoves her right leg forward and slightly drags her left leg. The rest are just cute!
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[Sissy]

OMG what an angel!!!! I love her!

[Loopy Squirrel]

Maybe with a little steroid therapy and some pain meds she will get better. She may have just hurt herself and needs a little time. It could even be related to her recent growth from a baby to a juvenile. It's hard to say but it just seems to me that something is bothering her and needs to be investigated. She is a very cute squirrel though.

[Secret Squirrel]

I have a female squirrel with the same situation...down in the rear due to cat attack as a baby. Sevier nerve damage and she may improve in time with the vets help. Fingers crossed. This is my second squirrel with the same issues. This is not an easy situation to deal with. Sorry you are going through this with your sweet girl.

I used the e-collar that Merman posted on TSB. It works great!! Follow his insrtuctions...and use the mole skin...it works wonderfully.

I also use "Nerve & Trauma" & "rescue remedy" meds given daily. I got them at Chris squirrels and more. This is working for my squirrel at this time...tomorrow may be a whole nother story !!!!
Good luck & :grouphug To you and your girl!!!

[grinn75]

Visit to the vet this morning and x-rays show signs of arthritis at both ankle joints and both wrist joints. She is on pain meds to start, metacam, and we will see how she does. If she continues to chew then it may be neurological. Keep your fingers crossed this is not the case.
She was such a champ. The vet said she was one of the best behaved squirrels ever, never tried to bite once!
I'm hoping this will help and then maybe with glucosamine and homeopathy she can be weaned off the pain meds. I'm not big on drugs but have seen natural remedies work wonders where drugs have failed. So thanks Secret Squirrel for the recommendations. I have rescue remedy and I'll pick up some of the nerve and trauma. Thanks for all the advice and kind words, your support means a lot.

[squirrelfriend]

Sorry if this has already been answered. I just kind of skimmed through this. Does she have any sensation in the leg that is being chewed? I have a squirrel that has no sensation in either of her back legs from the knee down and also her tail. SHe has chewed her feet a few times and her tail as well. For the one leg that she seems to chew on I put a sort of cast on. I don't know how to tell you how to do it on here. It needs to be firm enough to stay put but also not too tight that it cuts circulation. If it is too tight you will see the toes swell up. It is very important to leave the toes exposed so that you can see if there is any swelling in them. i would suggest having your vet show you how to apply it. She can also show you the materials that are used. That vet wrap stuff is great. It adheres to itself but not to the fur. You would need to put a nonstick bandage pad over the sore so that it doesn't heal to the bandage itself. Neosporin can also be aplied before bandaging so that it can be medicated while it is on. Change the bandage every 2 or three days. When the sore is completely healed with no scab on it you can probably leave it on longer. You can order vet wrap on ebay. Get the 1" width rolls. Much easier to use for small limbs.

If anybody knows of a solution to tail chewing other than e collars please pm me. Tails can not be bandaged like a leg can.

[grinn75]

She is actually chewing her good leg more than the bad one probably because she can't get to the bad one as easily. I'm hoping the pain meds work for the time being and if I have to I'll bandage her up. I definitely don't want her to get an infection or destroy tendon, muscle, or bone.

[CritterMom]

If she is having issues with arthritis, I just can NOT recommend a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement highly enough. I have an aging Saddlebred mare (23) who is kept completely sound and still hi-steppin' with the stuff. I landed in the hospital for a week this past spring, and it was a week after THAT before I could get to the barn where I board her, and after 2 weeks she was moving with visible stiffness and it was obvious she wan't happy. Within a few days of getting her supplements again, she was moving better; in a week she was fine. Make sure it is both glucosamine and chondroitin; they work together.

I would think that an e-collar, if it stuck out far enough, would prevent or cut down on access to the tail. I had a lovebird that had to be in an e-collar for over a year due to self-mutilation, and I designed DOZENS of them before I finally hit on one that worked!

[grinn75]

So the pain meds seem to be working. :wott
Bean has a good thick scab on her right leg and the scab on left leg has fallen off. She did chew her leg open on Friday while we were riding in the car. That was completely my fault, I never should have put her under stress when in such a vulnerable state. Bad mommy!! :nono
Oh well, the important thing is she's getting better now. The vet wants her on pain meds for 10 days then wean her down. I'm thinking I should probably start the supplements like glucosamine and homeopathy now before we take her off the pain meds, right?
I will try to post more pics soon.

[CritterMom]

The supplements won't interfere in any way with the meds - and as far as the homeopathy...what are you planning?

[grinn75]

I was going to try Homeopet's Join Relief, http://www.1-800homeopathy.com/topics/people.html?sub=pets .
Here is a list of the ingredients.
Homeopathic Ingredients: Arnica, Rhus tox, Hypericum, Aconite, Calendula, Hamamelis, Lathyrus sat
I have a friend of mine who is a bird rehabber and she swears by the stuff. I have even used it myself, being very skeptical, and it worked. I just don't want her on pain meds full time if we can help it.

[NaturesGift]

your baby reminds me of my Heidi. Bean is in my prayers:grouphug

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi Grinn75 I have not read all your thread. You need to take a look at MerMan (Mia on going wound) Emergency Life threating Need Help. Mia has mange mites. :shakehead That wound Bean has looks the same way.:thinking Get some Revolution For a small dog.:nono Start with half the first time. The next dose use all. You will have to put this on every 2 weeks for 3 months. Then put it on 1 time a month. This will take care of any mite, flees. I use this on Rocki even a year after releasing her. Lot's of ferret people use this all time. Do you have a E Color?
If you have any Dawn Dish washing soap, Or a very mild dog shampoo. Just remember it can't have a lot of smell or perfume. Lather it up real good. Let stay on for 1 minn.:D even if you have to keep rubbing and scrubbing the whole time. Be sure to do her face. Then 24 hr after Bean is dry then put Revolution on.:nono DON'T GET WET after you put this on. Be suer to wash everything in her cage and where ever she goes. The mite can live for 6 hr off the host. Then it will die. If you have a steam cleaner that will kill what ever is in your couch and chairs. I hope this will help you. Christal. P.S. You can get mites to just wash hands with soap and warm water. If Bean gets on close take them off and wash. I have sent this same stuff to MerMan Mia Dad. If you need any other info. PM me.

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 If Bean starts chewing on her leg again have he tested for mites. They will show in different places. The squirrel some times clear it up. Then the eggs hatch an starts over again. I sure glad Bean is doing better now :flash3

[Jackie in Tampa]

:wave123 sorry i have been so busy...eek, but i will be here the rest of the week if you need some vet wrap, someone to look at bean or anything that i can do to help...i am willing...also i have animax/panalog and feel it is the BEST ointment there is...if you have a vet...ask her about it...otherwise , i will share....
:peace i am not a rehabber, but a serious sq friend:) with several years worth of 'monkey biz in sq suits' experience....
i have a friend that calls me 'sq warrior':rotfl
{i wrestle sqs professionally}
my phone number is 813-541-8029...
i do have one sq with breathing issues that are not diagnosed, but my other 644 sqs are not showing any signs that it is contageous.
i wish i had the flexibility to visit you, but too hard to catch up if i leave for too long...but you are welcome to come here...
i know you volunteered to come and help out with 'my chores' ...how sweet, but how crazy...you have no idea and should be very careful:nono this place is grueling:)
[i was bite 6 times yesterday{blood and guts with bandaids on top} and probably about 10 times this past week...i trimmed christine's teeth and she raked my wrist to shrapnel!
644 alligators in sq suits....:shakehead

:Love_Icon i also can 'refer' to specialist vet, doc lightfoot at fvs...you must have referal:dono and a very large purse, but she is THE BEST there is:alright.gif ...
they have nuerologists on staff etc.
if an extra set of hands helps with the e collar...i am in south tampa...near gandy bridge....with vet wrap in ferrari red...for the holidays of course:D
tinfoil

i hope you can get beans chewing under control soon....infection can be an issue, keep cage and surroundings clean, change fleece daily etc....
but you already know that:thumbsup
good luck:Love_Icon

CM2028
this reminds me of myself....tied up and due to have a melt down at any minute:jump

:crazy aaaakkkkkk!:crazy

stop chewing beanarific:nono

[grinn75]

Thanks Jackie and Christal. I sure appreciate all the help. So far so good on little Miss Bean. The wounds seem to be healing up and no more chewing. I've ordered her homeopathy and will start her on it as soon as it arrives. I want to wait until her skin is fully healed before I start to wean her off the pain meds.

I've heard of Dr. Lightfoot before and know of her awesome reputation. So far Dr. Zellner at Avian and Animal Hospital has been great. But, it's nice to know a great specialist is just across the bridge.

Thanks for the phone number, Jackie. It is comforting to know that you are so close and so many of the board members talk of your special squirrel whisperer powers.:bowdown My offer still stands to help you out any way I can, including getting vet supplies wholesale.

I'll post some pics tonight of the Beanie Baby and hopefully she won't destroy my camera in the process.

[CritterMom]

Thanks Jackie and Christal. I sure appreciate all the help. So far so good on little Miss Bean. The wounds seem to be healing up and no more chewing. I've ordered her homeopathy and will start her on it as soon as it arrives. I want to wait until her skin is fully healed before I start to wean her off the pain meds.

I've heard of Dr. Lightfoot before and know of her awesome reputation. So far Dr. Zellner at Avian and Animal Hospital has been great. But, it's nice to know a great specialist is just across the bridge.

Thanks for the phone number, Jackie. It is comforting to know that you are so close and so many of the board members talk of your special squirrel whisperer powers.:bowdown My offer still stands to help you out any way I can, including getting vet supplies wholesale.

I'll post some pics tonight of the Beanie Baby and hopefully she won't destroy my camera in the process.

If you go visit Jackie, ask her to give you a little of the emu oil I sent her - it is absolutely amazing at healing up wound tissue. I wish she had had it when she went through her episode with Palmer - when I read that thread, it was all I could think of!

[Jackie in Tampa]

i have tons of the oil left...it grew hair on hopes hands and feet:thumbsup
thanks crittermom:bowdown

[CritterMom]

i have tons of the oil left...it grew hair on hopes hands and feet:thumbsup
thanks crittermom:bowdown


I have to relate a funny story. I belong to a private parrot group, and one of the members is in New Zealand. I mentioned on the board one day that I used emu oil as a skin moisturizer on my face, and got a HORRIFIED response from her, "Blimey, girl, yer gonna grow hair on your face!" They use it extensively in Australia and New Zealand on livestock with barbed wire wounds, and all she knew was it made the hair grow back! I had to assure her that I didn't look like a werewolf (of course that was BEFORE menopause):rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

[Mrs Skul]

:rotfl :rotfl :p :rolf :rolf TO Funny CritterMom :rofl4 :rofl4

[grinn75]

Hee, Hee! :D That's funny!!!

It looks like she is still leaving it alone. The scab has fallen off and there is now a nasty looking lump of scar tissue there. And yes there is no hair so maybe some emu oil is just the trick.

Can't get good pics of Bean's leg as she is too squirmy for my husband to hold still and he is apparently unable to figure out how to work my camera while I hold the monster. :shakehead I will try again tonight.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thumbsup

[grinn75]

Picked up more of her metacam today. I was going to start her on glucosamine but unsure of how much. I don't think it's one of those things you can overdose on but she obviously wouldn't need as much as my 12 pound cat. Any ideas?

New pic of her leg, and it has only been a week so I think that's pretty good. Could only get the one pic though, man is she quick!!

99866

[island rehabber]

It definitely looks better :thumbsup

[grinn75]

Just when I think things are going well, Aaahhhggg! :frustratedx
So Bean has now started chewing the inside of her right ankle (was the outside). She is still getting the metacam, .06cc once per day. I did finish off the old bottle last night and will start a new one today. Maybe the last dregs of the old bottle weren't as potent?
I don't think this was there yesterday when I took the pic. I think I would have noticed so she did this sometime last night or early this morning before I got up. Probably my fault for not getting up at the usual 6:45 am and trying to sleep in until 7:30 on Christmas morning.
Not sure what to do now. I have started her on glucosamine but not sure how much to give and homeopathy hasn't arrived yet.
She doesn't seem to chew as long as she is in her outside cage. I'm wondering if I should leave her out there tonight instead of bringing her in?
Any thoughts anyone has on this not so Merry Christmas day would be much appreciated.

[grinn75]

Still chewing even though she is on pain meds. Must be neurotic behavior. Now what?

[island rehabber]

I have no experience with this unfortunate syndrome so I can't be of much help to you, but if she doesn't chew while in the outside cage I would leave her there. Something 'neurotic' is kicking in when she finds herself indoors.....for her own safety you'll need to keep her outside until you can figure out what's going on. Again, so sorry I don't have a better solution. :(

[Jackie in Tampa]

me either...but i have never heard of any good coming to sqs once they start chewing...
like a phantom pain that we cannot see...
something is going on and i too would leave her outside if that helps...unless she is not chewing because she is 'too scared, frightned or cold'...then i would use a cone , e collar forever if needed...
ouch! i know...but the ghost pains must be nagging her...and i am at the point of recommending accupuncture for some of these 'chewers'...
they tend to do 'too much damage ' to themselves , while we think they are doing better...
if you close your eyes for one minute...they can tear themselves up!:shakehead

i also recommend stretching those back legs out...slow, holding them in the extended position for a while....i am doing this now with hope too, but for other reasons, but basically the same...to promote better circulation to that area....
start slow and progessively stretch further and hold extended longer each time...like a therapist would do...increase the circulation...:peace
:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[grinn75]

So she chews at night regardless of whether she is outside or inside. She is just too active or distracted during the day I guess. Or maybe the pain is worse at night. I really hope this is just from a growth spurt. I know human type kids can get really bad pains in their bones when they go through a growth spurt and they are definitely worse at night. Last night was a rough one. And this morning it really seemed to be hurting her. She is going back to the vet today at 4:30. I love her so much, I can't stand seeing her like this. Hope for some relief for her.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:grouphug hope vet has some insight...

So she chews at night regardless of whether she is outside or inside. She is just too active or distracted during the day I guess. Or maybe the pain is worse at night. I really hope this is just from a growth spurt. I know human type kids can get really bad pains in their bones when they go through a growth spurt and they are definitely worse at night. Last night was a rough one. And this morning it really seemed to be hurting her. She is going back to the vet today at 4:30. I love her so much, I can't stand seeing her like this. Hope for some relief for her.

[grinn75]

Vet cancelled on me. Now I have to wait until tomorrow morning. I'm going to have to try to put an e-collar on her tonight. I have not been successful in the past so not sure how this will go. I'm pretty sure if I don't get something on her to prevent her from chewing she may not have a leg for the vet to look at tomorrow. Wish me luck.

[Jackie in Tampa]

let us know how it goes today!
Good Luck you two:grouphug

[merman]

Good luck..
Please keep us updated.

I know it is not easy to have the ecollar strongly fixed.
I use stapler even. And used to wrap it strongly with tape all around couple of layers.

Now that Mia is used to wear it, i don't need to fix it that strong.
http://www.thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=99660&stc=1&d=1261301029

xxx

[Jackie in Tampa]

thanks Vas:bowdown [merman]

start with a plastic small dixie cup/solo cup....they have the smaller version of the '16 ouncer'...
maybe someone else can give better instructions/diagram of what they used and how they made one!
and vet wrap [sports tape] doesn't stick to fur, but does stick to itself:thinking so maybe between that and medical tape and stapler...:sanp3
something will work!


:D i will be around and am prepared to be biten if needed, and/or to lend a hand if also needed:peace
I have plenty of fingers to spare....
good luck:Love_Icon

[merman]

Ok,
I used Suz' Sugar Gliders - E-Collar (http://www.suzsugargliders.com/ecollar.htm) to make my ecollars.

By time, i changed the size, either bigger or smaller.
Now i am using quite a short one as you see in the pic, 'coz it is enough for Mia not to reach the wound area.

They are explaining very very detailed in the page.
There is no need for such little details about the neck area and so.

Let me know if i can help more.

xx

-Vas

[grinn75]

Well, trip to the vet and poor Bean is now in an e-collar. I hate it, she hates it. It is huge and she can't walk, eat or drink with it on. So thanks Merman I think I will do something like that. Dr. Wentworth wants her to have it on full-time for at least the next 24 hours. Then I will try her without it just during the day and put back on her at night. She is on antibiotics and increased pain meds. Dr. Wentworth is also going to call and consult with Dr. Lightfoot to make sure there is nothing else we should be doing.

[grinn75]

Poor Bean is breaking my heart. She was vocalizing the high pitched call like a wild squirrel. I haven't heard her make that noise since she was a wild. At least now that we are home she is just making angry squeaks and growls. She tried climbing into her cage and of course got stuck then freaked out. I gave her formula mixed with cereal and then some water since she can't eat on her own. She is sleeping now. I think all the stress has worn her out. The stress has worn me out!

[CritterMom]

Start playing with collar designs right now - you don't need the squirrel to make something up. Vets make the most ridiculous e-collars - you should see what they sent my poor little lovebird home with - it weighed more than he did! Just make sure there are no sharp edges where it goes around her neck - you will need to pad it with multiple layers of tape or something.

I would start with something like what Vas has on Mia, but longer - extending a little further out past her nose. Then you have to watch - can she get to the area she chews? If so, it needs to extend further - if not, you may be able to trim a tiny bit off. Keep doing this until you have the least obtrusive collar that will still work. I would also put her in a smallish cage to prevent her from trying to climb. Check the cage over CAREFULLY. Take out anything she could get the collar stuck on. Make sure there are no openings where she could get her head stuck - even between branches. She is going to be very awkward with it. Poor baby.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thumbsup glad it was a good visit..but hoping to gently break it to you...the cone should stay on for longer than 24 hours and only taken off while under your 'watchful eye'...ask Vas, Mia has had her cone on and off with many lessons learned...:shakehead
She would almost be completely healed, with the smallest bald spot, Vas would take it off...and bam! she would start chewing again.....:poke gonna be rough mommy!
They do look sad with that lamp shade on...poor baby :Love_Icon

philomycus has a similar story...her Rock has been a chewer in the past also...but nuerological damage is his issue. Mia has never been diagnosed why she chews...:dono and Vas has spent a fortune trying to find out why...:(

what meds are you dosing?
Hoping for a Speedy Recovery Bean!:Love_Icon

[merman]

I totally agree with Jackie and C.M.
You should be a rough mom during this period..

Mia has her ecollar on since 9th of December now.
Unless the area healed completely, she most probably will open it again. They love to bite/chew especially when it has scab.
So what i advice is, as C.M. said, start cutting and making your own ecollar, not too much wide as your vet put on.
You can try and make another one if it is not long enough, it is very simple to make one..
You can have multiple in your hand and you can change them in time.

But i wouldn't take it off in 24 hours, not at all.. !
If you check Mia's threads, you will see i put on a longer one as well, it gives you an idea..

Good luck, keep us updated please..

:Love_Icon
xxx

[Loopy Squirrel]

What size is the e-collar? Is it an avian or a mammal e-collar? A bird e-collar would probably fit better. Even the smallest mammal e-collar is going to be way too big for the squirrel.

As far as the pain issue, has the vet tried any steroids for swelling?

[merman]

Yes, good question LS..

By the way, i used exactly the same drawing in the ecollar site i posted above.
I printed and lined up the xray film and cut it exactly the same.
Then i made them shorter and shorter. Shorter is no problem for Mia beacuse her wound(s) are up above and she cannot reach them. In your case, you may want them longer, and narrower than what Vet put on.

Also, take into account, Mia is a small girl, she weights only 310 gr.

xx




What size is the e-collar? Is it an avian or a mammal e-collar? A bird e-collar would probably fit better. Even the smallest mammal e-collar is going to be way too big for the squirrel.

As far as the pain issue, has the vet tried any steroids for swelling?

[grinn75]

This is terrible!! I took the e-collar off when my husband got home so we could revamp it and she chewed her leg. This thing is definitely not coming off in 24 hours. I think it is a small mammal e-collar but definitely too big. I trimmed it down a little as you can see in the photos below. I hope it is not too short now. I can stretch her leg up to her mouth but not sure if she is able to with her limited movement.
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[grinn75]

She is on baytril now and they increased her meloxicam dosage from 0.06 ml to 0.2 ml. It has anti-inflammatory properties as well as being a pain med. Should she be on yogurt while on the baytril?

[Jackie in Tampa]

1.5mg/ml or 0.5 metacam?
purple or pink box?
reason i ask, that's a big jump!
but a great choice for pain.
1.5 is three times as strong as the other.
just being cautious:)
and i would give yogurt...for good gut flora.

[CritterMom]

Try to modify it or make another one from scratch, that fits more like Mia's - closer in to the sides of her face. She doesn't need a big satellite dish like that. Squirrels are flexible, but not THAT flexible. One that fits closely to the head doesn't interfere with their movements so badly either.

[grinn75]

Purple box. Her wait has increased and Dr. Wentworth said she started her on the lowest possible dosage and now has increased her to the high end since she seems to be in so much pain. I'll go get some yogurt tonight. She is having a hard time eating. I fed her formula tis morning but now she is sneezing formula out her nose. She licks it from the end of the syringe so I can't believe she's aspirated. Her breathing sounds fine. I'm afraid to feed her formula again but how is she going to eat?

[Jackie in Tampa]

mix yogurt in formula and let her lap it from a shallow bowl, still warm it up though!
wow, wonder why she is sneezing the formula...
has anyone cked her teeth?
if she starts sleeping too much, lower her dose on the metacam...
what makes doc think she is in MORE pain than before?
is she gritting teeth ?
are her ears pleated or wrinkled?
is her hair standing on end, making her appear fluffy?
especially around head, neck and face?
those are 'my indicators ' for knowing pain...
chewing can be a reaction from pain, but not always.
I hope bean can leave the booboos alone...
like cm said, adjust the e collar per her needs:Love_Icon
sending positive vibes to you both:grouphug
i would also keep her on heating pad, at least optional....
for the sqs laundry, i use purex and nothing else.:thinking
i use Dannon All Natural Vanilla
:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[grinn75]

Finally got her to bed!! Tried putting her in a smaller cage and she freaked out! So into her regular cage she went. I will just have to keep checking her all night long to make sure she doesn't get out of her bed and get stuck somewhere. She doesn't typically get up in the night so I think she will be okay. I put a rice buddy in there for her hoping the heat would help.
Took her e-collar off about 20 minutes after I gave her the pain meds so she could eat and play. Watched her like a hawk!! Seemed to be okay and only went for her leg twice. I'm thinking I should wrap it before I take her collar off so if she does go after it she would at least have to get through bandaging before getting to her leg.

[grinn75]

mix yogurt in formula and let her lap it from a shallow bowl, still warm it up though!
wow, wonder why she is sneezing the formula...
has anyone cked her teeth?


I offered her formula tonight and she wasn't interested but I will try in a bowl tomorrow morning. She actually does have a slight malocclusion which the vet discovered today. We noticed her bottom teeth were getting long and the right tooth is longer than the left because it sits back a little. The tooth weren't too long yet and vet recommended tooth trim in about a month. Could this be causing her to sneeze milk out her nose?


what makes doc think she is in MORE pain than before?
is she gritting teeth ?
are her ears pleated or wrinkled?
is her hair standing on end, making her appear fluffy?
especially around head, neck and face?
those are 'my indicators ' for knowing pain...
chewing can be a reaction from pain, but not always.

She doesn't appear to be doing any of that stuff except the chewing. I believe the doc said it was "break through" pain. I guess this does not bode well if we have to keep upping the dose just to keep her pain free. I have started the glucosamine and ordered homeopathy. The homeopathy doesn't get here until the 4th and I think glucosamine can take a couple weeks to build up in their system. So I'm just hoping the pain meds take care of it for now.

[Jackie in Tampa]

keep a watchful eye on her teeth...any foul odor from her mouth is a red flag, that something is going on...
if lowers get too long they can pierce upper palate...and cause serious infection...i trim teeth if it becomes an on going issue and am willing to teach you to do it...as most vets want to use iso and iso forever is not a good thing!:nono
i have found that three weeks is about the time lapse between trimmings in grays...
push the calcium too! if she doesn't want her formula, try letting her lick yogurt off plate...if she likes it, add dry formula to that...it's a good insurance plan to help get her calcium daily.
yogurt goes hand in hand with ABs, but i offer it to all my kids daily...however i can get it into them...they are all different and picky monkeys! yogurt makes beautiful sqs!:Love_Icon and is always a good avenue to medicate the uncooperative kids...:tilt
whoops...daylight, gotta run:wave123
you have my number if i can help with anything!:grouphug
:bowdown thanks for going the 'extra mile' for her!:Love_Icon
jit

[grinn75]

:thankyou Thanks everybody. Your advice and support means alot.

We made it through the night. I swear I checked on her like 5 times to make she didn't get stuck climbining around her cage. She was a good girl and stayed in bed all night.
We are work now. Thankfully the office I share with two other people is empty. Not that they would care, they love her. We have a strict no pet policy here so I'm very cautious when I bring her. It was so much easier when she was a baby.
She is sleeping in my lap right now. I will probably take the collar off when she wakes up so she can get something to eat and drink.
I feel terrible putting that thing back on. Though when she has it on she is so sweet to me. As soon as I take it off she attacks me, playing but a little rougher than usual. No biting yet.
Thank goodness I have such a sweet girl! I say that as she poops on me :shakehead Must be love, right?

[grinn75]

Leg is healing up but keeping the e-collar on is breaking my heart. She gets so depressed when it is on, doesn't move, doesn't look around or do anything. She can't eat or drink with it on so am taking it off for an hour at time for several times a day. She is so happy and excited when it comes off! She jumps and dances around then goes right for the leg. :shakehead
I snap my fingers and she stops but this behavior makes me think it is neurotic. I'm convinced I'm not doing enough for her to keep her from being bored or maybe there is something else she needs that I don't know about. For instance, I noticed she wants to build a nest but I don't know what to give her other than paper towel to do so. :dono

What is safe to give her for nest building?
Should I take it apart every couple of days so she can start new?
I have a few stuffies for her but should she have lots?
What other toys/enrichment items can I give her to keep her stimulated?

Sorry this is so long but I really need some ideas to keep her happy. I feel terrible thinking this is my fault so any suggestions would be great.

Thanks and Happy New Year everybody.

[CritterMom]

Have you altered the existing collar or made her a new one to conform more to her head like Mia's yet, If not, do so. Mia can function, eat, drink, etc., in hers, and it doesn't stick out so it doesn't get caught. You really need to make it as comfortable for her as possible.

I see you live in Florida, so you don't lose leaves in the winter. Give her some safe branches with leaves on them and change them out as they wilt and dry up. That is what they use in the wild. Mister P had oak and maple branches before winter took over, and would get very excited when he got new ones - stop everything and start snatching leaves and disappearing into his box with them.

[CritterMom]

Look at this e-collar: http://www.pjspawsandclaws.com/store/detail/index.cfm?nPID=416

I think the small collar is too big for a squirrel, but we are talking a little bit of fabric, foam rubber and velcro - it would be easy to make.

[grinn75]

I will try today to make another e-collar. I tried when this first started happening and I was not very successful.
Better at cooking than crafts. :D
But I have to make this work by Monday because I will be doing field work from Monday through Wednesday. Long hours and no time to run home and take care of her. My husband will be coming home at lunch time to check on her and feed and water her but if she can get around on her own I won't worry so much.
As far as the nesting material goes she gets fresh oak branches all the time and other than chewing on the bark and leaves she seems to think these are not suitable materials. I did notice for the few days she was a "free" squirrel she liked the palm tree and the fibers from the palm fronds. So I was thinking of maybe coconut husk fibers from a garden center.
Should I build her a nest box or is the hammock she usually sleeps in at night fine?

[CritterMom]

I think they all need a nest box - just a nice, safe, secure place that is all theirs, but for now, with the collar on, she may have difficulty getting in and out.

OK, I did a very quick tutorial for you. I do not know for sure this will work, but squirrels are not really good at manipulating things with their hands - nothing like parrots - so I think it might. Go to a craft store and buy a piece of pre-quilted fabric - the stuff that already has the two pieces of fabric with the quilting inside, sewn over the top in a crosshatch. Also buy a few inches of 1/2" wide velcro.

Cut a circle in the fabric - I would start at 7.5 - 8 inches in diameter (measure your plates and find one close to that to draw a circle. Then cut a much smaller one in the middle and remove a pie shaped wedge. The larger the wedge you cut out, the closer to the face the e-collar will be. Cut small and keep playing with it until you like the size. Sew velcro on the two open edge of the wedge, then slip it on her neck and attach the velcro. You want it to fit close to the face and extend past the end of the nose a bit. You will probably need to do some trimming. Once you get it right, take it off and finish off the edges do it doesn't ravel (you can do it with a thread and needle, just wrapping around and around).

You want to use the quilted fabric, not the fleece like I did for the example. It is thick enough to have some body to it so it doesn't just flop on her neck, but when she tries to eat, it is soft enough to collapse and allow that. Good luck.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I think they all need a nest box - just a nice, safe, secure place that is all theirs, but for now, with the collar on, she may have difficulty getting in and out.

OK, I did a very quick tutorial for you. I do not know for sure this will work, but squirrels are not really good at manipulating things with their hands - nothing like parrots - so I think it might. Go to a craft store and buy a piece of pre-quilted fabric - the stuff that already has the two pieces of fabric with the quilting inside, sewn over the top in a crosshatch. Also buy a few inches of 1/2" wide velcro.

Cut a circle in the fabric - I would start at 7.5 - 8 inches in diameter (measure your plates and find one close to that to draw a circle. Then cut a much smaller one in the middle and remove a pie shaped wedge. The larger the wedge you cut out, the closer to the face the e-collar will be. Cut small and keep playing with it until you like the size. Sew velcro on the two open edge of the wedge, then slip it on her neck and attach the velcro. You want it to fit close to the face and extend past the end of the nose a bit. You will probably need to do some trimming. Once you get it right, take it off and finish off the edges do it doesn't ravel (you can do it with a thread and needle, just wrapping around and around).

You want to use the quilted fabric, not the fleece like I did for the example. It is thick enough to have some body to it so it doesn't just flop on her neck, but when she tries to eat, it is soft enough to collapse and allow that. Good luck.
excellent example and idea:thumbsup
i will babysit next week if that helps, mon-wed, no problem...i am always here...
tsb is the only link to humans i have ...other than the clerks at the grocery store...:osnap
:rotfl :rotfl

[grinn75]

Sorry I didn't respond earlier I was out buying supplies to make new e-collar and also pet store for her and the rest of my zoo.

:thankyou CritterMom! I used the example you gave me. I actually found an old soft e-collar from one of my cats and modified that so it is much smaller. I may not have done it exactly right since she can't seem to perk her ears up, which annoys her. But, she can get around a lot easier, sleep more comfortably (which she is doing now) and she can get water on her own. She can't reach her leg and she still can't feed herself but she can eat items that are secured to the side of her cage. :thumbsup

I would have taken a pic but it has been a busy evening. I also went for a walk and collected all kinds of wild stuff to put in her cage, all safe for squirrels of course. We put a few things in there and she went nuts.

Thanks Jackie for the offer of squirrel sitting. That means a lot to me considering everything you are going through right now. I will call you if I need to take you up on it. Either way I will call you on Monday after I talk to our microbiologist about Sammy.

Thank you, thank you, thank you everybody!!! I feel so much more optimistic about resolving this problem after today. I was getting so down over the last few days but tonight I am definitely more optimistic. :flash3

[CritterMom]

HEY, HEY, HEY!! Sometimes you find answers right here on the board, but they aren't to your questions!

If you look on this page you will find a post about a squirrel bite. Everybody chimed in with their squirrel bite war stories, but it was 4skwerls that had the answer. I have not used it on myself (though I plan to, because I have some) but according to her, Rescue Remedy CREAM, which is applied topically, makes the pain of a squirrel bite disappear almost immediately after it is applied.

Why don't you get some and try it on little Bean. Non-toxic, and if it kills the pain sensation, it might make her quit thinking about chewing...

[Jackie in Tampa]

:shakeheadSo glad you are able to get her something to distract the uncomfortable hat...:Love_Icon I hope that it works and she doesn't chew...
I swear I would leave it on her 100% of the time you are away...the moment you leave it off, she will chew again!
...and also, it MUST stay on until wound is completely gone and more....and then we pray that she doesn't start again!...that would imply that there is more wrong than we can see and possible nerve issue going on!:shakehead
I can always babysit...that's what I am a professional at...baby sitting sqs for undefined times...:rotfl thank God there's no diapers involved!

Wow, I have never seen the cream type RR! how cool!
Wonder where you find it? :poke hey Leigh, where?

:poke Critter Mom, Grinn is lucky and works for a company that can order most things pet/medical!....so I am staying friendly with her...offering free babysitting etc:D I know a good thing...and we are only a bridge apart:thumbsup

:Love_Icon Be a good girl Bean, and make mommy feel better:grouphug
Give gentle massages to the area, get her circulation going to promote healing:alright.gif
Good Luck, keep us posted...love to see a pic!
:worthless

[4skwerlz]

I know I sound like a snake-oil salesman with this stuff....I have no idea how it works...I only know that twice I had a bad injury to my hand; once, my finger was crushed in one of those folding step stools...I sat on it with all my weight not realizing my finger was between the hollow metal leg and the base, and then the time Hazel bit my finger to the bone right through the base of the fingernail. Both times the cream took away all the pain and I was able to get right back to work, and the finger was barely even sore. Maybe I have magic fingers, or it was a fluke. :dono But it was pretty impressive. I'm curious to see if others see the same results.

You can buy the RR cream at the healthfood store.

[CritterMom]

Jackie, I always see it right next to the other RR products. I actually HAVE a tube, but have never used it - I am so curious about it at this point I am about to stab myself just so I can see if it really works!

[Jackie in Tampa]

Jackie, I always see it right next to the other RR products. I actually HAVE a tube, but have never used it - I am so curious about it at this point I am about to stab myself just so I can see if it really works!
oh my! that's a wee bit drastic:rotfl ...just for experimental trial!:rotfl
we must be having fun?! are we?
no no ...don't do that...give me an hour or so, and I'll get bit without a doubt and then...........:rotfl

:osnap
oh snap...good morning!

[grinn75]

Oh wow! It's so weird you mentioned the RR cream. I ordered some other homeopathy and saw the cream thinking that might be something good to have so ordered that too. Haven't known of anyone who has used it so this is good info. According to UPS should be getting the package tomorrow so will definitely try it out. I've been putting A&D ointment on it to help heal it up but she hates it. :yuck

Since she has the soft collar on she is outside for a short time today even though it is freezing. Don't worry there is lots of fleece and warm rice buddy. I just needed her occupied for a little while so I could clean her cage, wash bedding and reorganize stuff, etc...

It never ends around here. With 3 cats, a snake, a hamster, and one very demanding diva in a squirrel suit, I am always cleaning, feeding doing something! I only take on hard luck cases and so all my animals have some sort of ailment or handicap. Things are often crazy around here, especially me! :crazy I know am not as busy as most of you with the 500+ squirrels you all have (ie. Jackie:D) so for that I am grateful. I don't know how you guys do it?!

I will post some pics later this afternoon. That is if I can keep Bean from eating the camera!:tilt

[grinn75]

Made it through today. She spent most of the day outside. Even though it is cold she really seems to enjoy it. Leg is looking good and so far no problems with the new e-collar. Don't have much time since I still have work to do but here are a few pics.
Without her collar on grooming her little lamb.
100401
with the e-collar on :(
100402 100403
100404

[4skwerlz]

She is absolutely precious.....:Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

:Love_Icon love love love Bean!
can you get a pic of booboo?
glad she is adjusting to her new hat! poor little sweetie:Love_Icon
and I only have a few sqs!:tilt
no way...i could not go outside today without moaning...it was freezing! even in the sun! :shakehead yucky cold!

[CritterMom]

Aw, bless her heart. That collar is GREAT!! You might even be able to shorten it a bit. Can you tape about 1/2" down around the outside of the cone? You will need to watch and make sure she can't reach, but it might make eating easier for her.

This is so much better than the parrot cone!

[grinn75]

Sorry haven't been on, work is hectic. Field days are always so long and exhausting but thankfully I have a wonderful husband who has been taking great care of Bean. He checks on her at lunch and warms up her rice buddies and has come home early from work to bring her inside and play with her before bed. The wound looks great and she may have stopped chewing. She can get the collar off by herself so there have been a few times we have found her with it off. Thankfully her leg looks good. I'll continue to use it until it is all healed though. Here are some pics of her leg I took yesterday. In fact today it looks even better because the little bit of scab has fallen off.
100541 100542

[CritterMom]

How does the naughty girl get it off? Have you tried staples?

[Jackie in Tampa]

:jump the naughty girl is a sq...need we say more!:jump capable of anything!!!!!:jump
How does the naughty girl get it off? Have you tried staples?

[Loopy Squirrel]

They are well regarded contortionists.

[grinn75]

I think Bean was getting her cone off because I was being a wimp and not securing it tight enough. She would leave it on all night and remove it the morning when she got up. Since I have been so busy I wasn't able to put it back on so she has been without it most of the week.
I know, I know... you all are going to shoot me. :bang But she has been really good. Her leg is healing well but I am seeing evidence that she may have moved up her leg to start on her knee. :shakehead It really does appear to be an over grooming thing she only does at night. She seems to be better now that there are more things in there for her to groom instead of her leg. But I will be putting the cone back on to ensure it doesn't get bad again.:(
Since she is already on glucosamine and homeopathy for her arthritis maybe next step is homeopathy for stress and anxiety. :dono The vet did say something about hormones triggering neurotic behaviors so I will try anything at this point.
Right now she is being crazy girl, running around, doing flips and jumps. She is such a joy even if she is so frustrating! :Love_Icon

[CritterMom]

Can you do some modifications so the collar closes with a narrow velcro strip? You can buy 1/2" velcro at fabric and craft stores. They may be contortionists, but they are not particularly good at manipulating things with their hands - as in taking things apart. I gave Mister P one of the parrot's "caged nut" toys - you push the top in, drop a nut inside, and hang it. Critter needs to push the top in again to get the nut out. It takes my parrots about 30 seconds; Mister P never did figure it out but got very upset because he could see and smell the almond but not get it. I took it out of his cage! Long story short (too late!!) I think velcro would be a dandy way to close one of those.

[grinn75]

Bean is doing remarkably well. All her wounds are healed up and she is not chewing any longer. :thumbsup She has been without her e-collar for about a week and I'm slowly weaning her off the pain meds. I want to reserve the pain meds for when she really needs it. From what I've read about metacam and other pain meds the body can get used to it and then you have to use more and more to get relief. I guess that's how people get addicted to oxycotin and vicadin. Scary!!

Also got to meet Jackie today and see the infamous Squirrel Central. So cool! Jackie you are amazing!!! In future when I think I'm feeling stressed and overwhelmed with just my one little Beanie Baby I will think of you and all your 50 million squirrels. Really puts things in perspective.
:osnap

[tambot1]

I had the same problem with my Nutter Butter. Her back was broken and paralized in both back legs. She started chewing small spots on both legs and it just got worse to the point of infection. I had to have both legs removed and she did great. I have had her for a year and a half. It has been challenging at times. My issue right now is her chewing her tail because she can't feel it either. We went to the vet yesterday and they want to save her tail. They suggested liquid bandage so that is what we are trying. I hope this helps!

[grinn75]

Bean is great as far as her leg goes. She appears to groom it often but doesn't chew, thank goodness.
However this morning she lost the tip of her tail!:eek: I must have been standing on the fur at the tip when she shot up my leg. She didn't act strange or make a sound just sat on my shoulder grooming herself. Didn't realize what had happened until I turned around and saw the last 1/2 inch of her tail lying on the floor. I felt terrible!!:( Thank goodness I had read about similar situations on this board otherwise I would have completely lost it. :shakehead It looks okay and she is chewing on the bone so I will watch to make sure she doesn't keep chewing. I'll try to take some pics tonight.

[grinn75]

I didn't know where else to put this but I wanted to let everyone know I have found a great treatment for my chewing squirrel Beanie.
I am giving her passion flower extract in a liquid form. It is sold at most natural food stores or possibly a GNC type place. It has worked wonders and believe it or not she was the one who discovered the cure.

About a month ago she was chewing not only her leg but also her tail and she was almost down to the muscle on her leg. I was at my witts end and was prepared to take her to the vet to get her on some drugs since all of my natural remedy options seemed to have failed. I was walking her on a leash out in the yard and she started eating little green berries on a trailing vine in my yard. Of course, curious I looked it up later and found it to be corky stem passion vine, a native Florida plant. The info said passion flower or passion vine is often used for medicinal purposes, specifically anxiety related disorders. Sure enough over the next few days she stopped chewing and dramatically improved. I thought it was too good to be true. Then a couple weeks ago she started chewing again. I looked in vain for the green berries but none could be found. I googled herbal uses of passion flower on the internet and found passion flower extract was available in both pill and liquid form. I got the liquid because I thought it would be easier to dose than the pill.

Once I started her on the liquid she stopped chewing. I really hope it's not a fluke and this is the miracle cure.

Just wanted to put this out there for others who have squirrels that do the neurotic chewing thing.

[merman]

Wow, how is little Bean nowadays ?
I am going to GNC this evening for sure!!

Thanks C.M. for the link to the thread!
Hope it helps! :)

xx

[squirrelfriend]

That is really interesting about the passion flower extract. I will keep that in mind if I ever have a squirrel again with a chewing problem. I had one that did and put her leg in a cast. She was paralised in the back legs so it didn't bother her at all. It kept her from chewing it.

[stosh2010]

Maybe If I take some Passion Flower Extract...I'll Stop Chewing MY NAILS...
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Stosh >>> Keeper of the KING ( of Costa Rica )

[grinn75]

Bean still chews now and then but the passion flower seems to be helping, knock on wood. At least she is not chewing down to the muscle now.

I give her 1-2 drops twice a day for 3 days then lay off for awhile and see how she does. I read on the web about people overdosing on passion flower and it causing sypmptoms of anxiety so am reluctant to give her too much. The human dose is 20-40 drops 3 times a day so I thought 2-6 drops a day for a little squirrel was good.

Hope it works for you. If it doesn't I have also found a website with all kinds of homeopathic and natural remedies made exclusively for pets. Check it out, http://www.nativeremedies.com/petalive/index.html .