Diarrhea in 8-9 week old squirrels

[squirrelygirl15]

I am looking for some answers. I have three squirrels I took in since infancy. All were doing well until two weeks ago. The female started with diarrhea, after being healthly, eating well and all that. It seemed to start out of the blue. My first thought was teething. So I monitored and cut her formula with a bit more water, just in case it was a 'richness' issue. Then one of the males started with diarrhea. So I cut the formula for him as well. The third seemed fine. All three are in seperate cages although they are littermates. Upon recepit, they self nursed with and on each other, so I seperated them ASAP.

After several days of dietary adjustments, the diarrhea continued to get worse and worse, and over night I had wet, watery yellow stools from one of the males and the female. The female seemed in worse health, although they were active and seemed always hungry.

When I could not seem to resolve the issue with diet, I brought a stool sample to the vet. He as unable to find anything and again suggested too rich a diet, or feeding too often. Since I had already cut the formula, I stopped the 3rd feeding. I was now feeding formula, twice daily, offering fresh water and rodent chow in the cage around the clock. The male seemed to try the rodent chow, but the female had no interest.

When the stools did not improve, I again brought a sample to the vet. Again he found nothing, but did give me Panacur 100mg to be given to all the squirrels for 5 days. The second male, had at this time just begun soft stools. The first male and female stools were just water and slime.

After 5 days on Panacur, (last dose this past Monday) careful not to overfeed or over 'rich' the formula, I now have the males with large toothpaste stools, and the female extremely thin and almost hollow. She cries when I touch her and she just wants to be held until she falls asleep. She will not eat rodent chow at all, but will drink formula, watered down with rodent chow in it. Yesterday I offered her tiny piece of apple which she ate very enthustically. Today, she ate an entire plain unsalted Saltine cracker, no rodent chow but did take her allotted amount of watered down formula. Because I am so concerned with her thinness, I offered her plain old water, (bottled) from a syringe which she took greadily. She even seemed to perk up some, but still showed no interest in eating anything else. I do have LR and will switch her over tonight. I'll offer some before I turn in for the night, around 1AM. Her stool remains long and toothpastey as does the boys. It seems nothing I do is making anything any better. Now, since she feels so thin and looks so worn I am flat out worried. Any ideas? Carolyn

[Jackie in Tampa]

How old are they?
Can you post pics?
What formula are you feeding?
sorry you are having issues, hopefully someone will have ideas...I have never used Panacur, but others swear by it.
Vet could not find anything, strange huh?
They were teasted for cochidia and giardia?
I would provide heat for the little girl, she sounds like it may help her feel better.:grouphug
Can they be reunited yet, are they still suckling?

[Cheri]

You may want to add a probiotic. Promax is one we use to regain intestinal balance for our cat & dog patients. Or perhaps see if they will lick a bit of yogurt. My baby SFS love LeCreme. Panacur is killing the good bacteria from their intestinal tract. Keep them hydrated!

[SandyS]

How much do they weigh and how many cc's of formula were they taking? Mustardy yellow soft stools are a sign of over feeding formula but you probably already know that.
Sometimes they have to test a few stool samples to actually find anything.
What type of rodent chow are you feeding them?
What color are the little girls gums? Does she look dehydrated? Have you tried offering her Pedialyte yet? :thinking Poor thing.
S

[squirrelygirl15]

I feed Fox Valley, right now at a 3 to 1 ratio. Currently she weighs 131gm. down 2 grams from last night. I have used Pedilyte, we've been on and off it because the vet kept suggesting diet was the issue. Stools are brown because of the rodent chow I am mixing with the formula. It is Purina rodent chow, according to one of my rehab books it is the best chow for them. I took her out of her hosptial box several days ago, because she was always wet from the stool, she seemed happier in a cage where she can get some exercise, she is still climbing and sort of active, but no where near where she was. I do have plain vanilla yogurt. Any ideas on how much to offer? I surely don't want to make matters worse. Shall I feed it to all of the kids? I just tried to offer her LR, she took some, but was more interested in sleeping, but is bright eyed, although not quite bushy tailed. The squirrels stools are so smelly, the room smells, I can't quite explain the smell, somewhere between bad milk and vomit. Sorry, gross thought. I gave them all water bottles, thinking that perhaps, if it were parasites, them may have been reinfecting themselves with their own water dish. There were tested for both, but the vet found nothing. He put them on Panacur just in case.

[Cheri]

Did any of this help you with your babies? How are they doing now?

[Cheri]

Will she lick the yogurt off your hand?

[Jackie in Tampa]

stinky is usually giardia...
SMZ..sulfamethoxazole
yes vanilla yogurt will help the upper GI, live culture.
i offer it in the formula.
heat and hydration
poor sweeties

[SandyS]

Maybe her body is having problems with the rodent chow. When did she start eating it?
Diarrhea can be sooo many things! :shakehead

How many cc's of formula and chow mix is she drinking?

I usually mix 1 part formula 2 parts whole milk yogurt (or 1 yogurt & 1 heavy cream) and 3 parts water whenever they're on antibiotics (but I use Esbilac - haven't had any problem batches this year) I've never used Panacur, usually Baytril.
The yogurt sounds like a good idea to me but I will defer to someone with more experience than myself for a definite on that and/or an amount to give her to catch up. I would tend to say a small amount at first.
Anyone have any ideas?
Are her gums grayish? She may be low on sugar.
Did you mention the funny smell to the vet? - that could be a clue as to what is causing this.
Are their cages next to each other? - being closer might help with the stress.
I would offer heat under part of her cage. That's what I would want if I were as sick as her.
S

[PBluejay2]

You said you've cut the formula down to 3:1 but didn't say (I don't think) how much you are feeding at a time. Are you also cutting down on amount? Following the 5% of body weight rule? I mean no offense to vets or vet offices, but I've detected both giardia and coccidia on a few occasions when they've missed it. I think I would stop feeding and start from square one with rehydration (Pedialyte) for three feedings and then reintroduce the formula. I'm sure you're giving them fresh formula and using clean syringes. Finally, I have no experience with Purina rodent chow. I have good success with Harlan Teklad.

[SandyS]

PB,
My book says Panacur works for giardia do you know if it works for coccidia? Is there a funky smell with coccidia like there is with giardia? I don't have any experience with it.

SquirrelyGirl - did the vet mention if you need to repeat the panacur in 2-3 weeks or not?

S

[PBluejay2]

PB,
My book says Panacur works for giardia do you know if it works for coccidia? Is there a funky smell with coccidia like there is with giardia? I don't have any experience with it.

SquirrelyGirl - did the vet mention if you need to repeat the panacur in 2-3 weeks or not?

S

I have not noticed odor with coccidia, and neither of my med books says anything about Panacur being effective against coccidia, only giardia.

[squirrelygirl15]

Sorry to make you all wait, I am taking a college course on line and had to be there. I am following the 5% feeding rule, and skimp just a little because my vet thought too much or too rich food was the issue. No the vet did not say to re-admin the Panacur, but I have read that you should in a few weeks. I also read conflicting reports that that drug can/will cause stool issues. The jury seems to be out on a definitive answer. I was careful to give the exact amount only once per day. I mentioned all the clues to the vet, which is why I guess, without actually seeing parasites, he prescribed the Panacur. Yes, I am sure I can get yogurt into her. She is very sweet and will lick most anything. The boys are a no-brainer. Just like my teenaged sons, I swear they will eat anything! So I'd don't think either of them consuming yogurt will be a problem!

[SandyS]

PB,
Thanks.

Squirrely,
Did you turn in for the night?

S

[squirrelygirl15]

Nope, I am still here. I just went to check on the squirrels and have the female with me right now. I tried to offer her yogurt, but she refused. She is very sleepy, so I guess I'll try again in the morning. If I don't have luck with her, or the boys eating it 'straight', I'll mix up a 'thin' formula with yogurt. Something positive however, when I looked inside the female's sleepingbag, she had dragged in a piece of unsalted cracker. So I guess she feels well enough to nibble. I was afraid she would stop eating altogether. I read Panacur can host many digestive as well as stomach issues, one of them loss of appetite. I just keep thinking that the Panacur was causing the loose stools and I was sure by now I would see some positive stool changes, but no. Ugh!

[squirrelygirl15]

Something else, I recently read that the sugars in Pedilyte can cause diahrrea. Pedilyte is all I have ever used for hydration, and seemingly without issue. I was suprised to read the information. Has anyone eles ever heard of this? I was afraid to offer Pediltye so I offered ringer solution instead.

[PBluejay2]

Nope, I am still here. I just went to check on the squirrels and have the female with me right now. I tried to offer her yogurt, but she refused. She is very sleepy, so I guess I'll try again in the morning. If I don't have luck with her, or the boys eating it 'straight', I'll mix up a 'thin' formula with yogurt. Something positive however, when I looked inside the female's sleepingbag, she had dragged in a piece of unsalted cracker. So I guess she feels well enough to nibble. I was afraid she would stop eating altogether. I read Panacur can host many digestive as well as stomach issues, one of them loss of appetite. I just keep thinking that the Panacur was causing the loose stools and I was sure by now I would see some positive stool changes, but no. Ugh!

No offense, but what's with the crackers? If you haven't already, check out the stickies in the nutrition forum.

[squirrelygirl15]

One last thing before I turn in for the night. I just offered the boys a bit of yogurt in a dish - no problem, they ate it like it was the best thing they ever tasted. I thought they would. Aside from the smelly poo, they are acting perfectly squirrley. She is much more quieter and very sleepy.

Just a tip, my favorite dishes for young squirrels are the old fashioned furniture coasters found under couch legs to protect the carpet. They are glass and can be sterlized easily, plus the squat size makes them hard to tip over even by happy active squirrel feet. They are not very deep either, which helps to minimize the aspriation problem. I look for them in yardsales and antique stores.

[squirrelygirl15]

I know, I know the crackers - the vet suggested, again diet, and told me to get her on something 'solid'. She had no interest in the chow like her brothers. Another rehabber I contacted suggested that I just give her chow and I should "let her starve enough to eat then she would eat it". I thought the crackers the lessor of two evils, although I know darn well, not nutritious.
I did make sure they had the unsalted tops, I realize there is enough salt in the cracker itself. I have guilt, but she wasn't eating anything and the vet felt the watery formula was just adding the her issues.

[SandyS]

SG - How is she doing this morning?

S

[squirrelygirl15]

She was gravely ill this morning and I had to come to work. I ran home at lunch and she was gone. Horrible. Now my stress is keeping the two brothers from the same fate. I offered yogurt in their formula this morning, LR, a water bottle and rodent chow. I still have light brown, long, tootpastey stools. One of the brothers has a very wet behind, so I put him in a warm hospital box to prevent any chills. The other brother is acting perfectly normal and looks perfectly fine, but the stools are very similar. They consumed the yogurt and one brother loves rodent chow, the other nibbles but tries. My biggest concern is when I took one of the boys out to clean his cage he whinned, like he was in pain (this is the wet behind guy). The sister did the same thing a day or two ago. I am afraid he is going to go fast and am scared to death about it. They have gained weight, I don't know off hand how much, I am at work now and my records, of course, at home. This is bizarre to me, where am I going wrong?! Do I dare take them off all food and just hydrate? I have done this several times and can't help but wonder it that tipped the iceberg for the little girl. I offered her only Pedilyte for a full 24 hours, using the 5% rule, and found that she never really went back to eating after that, even though I offered formula 3 to 1 ratio and gradually increasing the amount of formula after a full 24 hour cycle. Rodent chow and fresh water are always available once they are back on the regular strength formula. Several people suggested overfeeding, but it seems if I cut back they quickly become emmaciated. The little girl drank several cc of LR just last night and this morning barely moved. I think I am hydrating enough. Her gums looked normal and a turger test seemed consistant. Of course, she had extra skin since she had lost weight while on the Panacur and then on the liquid hydrate diet and then the watery formula, she never really went back to solid foods, she ate one Saltine cracker (it took all day and was the only thing besides apple she would eat, I know crackers are not the perfect rehab food), and small piece of apple. I use Fox Valley formula and bottled water. I am sick over this, and plan to give up my rehab license. I am too devasted to take on another baby. I feel totally responsible for her death and am worried about my other two.

[PBluejay2]

She was gravely ill this morning and I had to come to work. I ran home at lunch and she was gone. Horrible. Now my stress is keeping the two brothers from the same fate. I offered yogurt in their formula this morning, LR, a water bottle and rodent chow. I still have light brown, long, tootpastey stools. One of the brothers has a very wet behind, so I put him in a warm hospital box to prevent any chills. The other brother is acting perfectly normal and looks perfectly fine, but the stools are very similar. They consumed the yogurt and one brother loves rodent chow, the other nibbles but tries. My biggest concern is when I took one of the boys out to clean his cage he whinned, like he was in pain (this is the wet behind guy). The sister did the same thing a day or two ago. I am afraid he is going to go fast and am scared to death about it. They have gained weight, I don't know off hand how much, I am at work now and my records, of course, at home. This is bizarre to me, where am I going wrong?! Do I dare take them off all food and just hydrate? I have done this several times and can't help but wonder it that tipped the iceberg for the little girl. I offered her only Pedilyte for a full 24 hours, using the 5% rule, and found that she never really went back to eating after that, even though I offered formula 3 to 1 ratio and gradually increasing the amount of formula after a full 24 hour cycle. Rodent chow and fresh water are always available once they are back on the regular strength formula. Several people suggested overfeeding, but it seems if I cut back they quickly become emmaciated. The little girl drank several cc of LR just last night and this morning barely moved. I think I am hydrating enough. Her gums looked normal and a turger test seemed consistant. Of course, she had extra skin since she had lost weight while on the Panacur and then on the liquid hydrate diet and then the watery formula, she never really went back to solid foods, she ate one Saltine cracker (it took all day and was the only thing besides apple she would eat, I know crackers are not the perfect rehab food), and small piece of apple. I use Fox Valley formula and bottled water. I am sick over this, and plan to give up my rehab license. I am too devasted to take on another baby. I feel totally responsible for her death and am worried about my other two.


I'm wondering if this could be a bacterial (possibly even viral) rather than parasite infection and if a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Baytril, Albon, or Sulfatrim might not be in order. Panacur is a dewormer and also works on Giardia but I'm not sure about bacteria. Before I lost another one, I'd start antibiotics. It can't hurt!

[Adoresquirrels]

This situation is just terrible, it sounds like you're doing everything that you can. Prayers for your little ones. :grouphug So sorry about your poor little that pased. I can only imagine how frustrated & sad you must feel.

[muffinsquirrel]

Just a tip, my favorite dishes for young squirrels are the old fashioned furniture coasters found under couch legs to protect the carpet. They are glass and can be sterlized easily, plus the squat size makes them hard to tip over even by happy active squirrel feet. They are not very deep either, which helps to minimize the aspriation problem. I look for them in yardsales and antique stores.


That's what I use. I've never mentioned it because I didn't think most people would know what I was talking about. :D They are really great when you are teaching babies to lap formula from a dish. My only complaint about them is that they are so small they have to go in the silverware compartment of the dishwasher!

muffinsquirrel

[squirrelygirl15]

Thanks everyone. I will contact my vet in the morning ASAP. I only have Amoxil here and am not sure if it will help at all. I'll ask his advice in the morning. I have the little boy squirrel back on heat in a hospital box. Again I gave him a tad of yogurt in a dish which he lapped happily. Then I syringe fed him 5% of his weight in LR, just to be certain he is hydrated. He is extremely smelly, diarrhea is stuck to his hind end, and he is wet, just smelly and wet. I don't want to clean him up too much because I don't want him to catch a chill. I wiped him with a warm water cloth, held him until he was quite dry, brushed out his fur with a clean toothbrush, and have him back on a heating pad, warm. He ate apple and enjoyed every lip smacking bite. I am so afraid to remove his food, I did that with the little girl, just as the books tell you to, 5% liquid with excessive diarrhea, in our case Pedilyte and it seemed she never recovered. At the very least this guy is eating. I really feel the little girl died from emaciation. Certainly not dehydration, she took 5% of her weight in LR just a few hours before her death. It is weird, they seem healthy, and then I notice the tail seems to be not as full, not as pretty, then the rest of their fur seems ratty, then overnight they are gravely ill. You can feel every bone and it seems that any fat or muscle is completely gone. They cry, pain?, when you try to wipe their behinds with warm water. I try to keep them as clean as I can without stressing them. I don’t want this little guy to have a rash on top of all of this. I constantly change their cages, just in case it is contagious, I don’t want them to re-infect themselves. Everything they touch gets cleaned with a mild bleach solution and their bedding is washed in hot water using bleach. While I was trying to gently clean the smelly boy, he pooped, mustard yellow, the consistency of ketchup with tiny chunks of rodent chow. About the size of a grain of sand, maybe even smaller. The other brother seems and acts just fine, but his stool is sometimes brown, like dark chocolate, about the size of a Tic Tac and then the next stool is Golden’s mustard yellow and long, 3/4” or so, both are soft, but the mustard yellow is softer than the chocolate brown. What worries me is that he is acting fine he , eats, drinks, plays etc. then suddenly whatever happens, happens and it is too late to reverse the issue. Same thing as his little sister. I am clueless and heartbroken. They certainly didn’t deserve to die. I have had them since they were only a few days old, and up until now they did so well! I just can't imagine what is wrong.

[squirrelygirl15]

Hey Muffinsquirrel!
You must be as old as me! I am not sure most people know what they are, but they surely work great! Great minds think alike!

[island rehabber]

EDIT: my apologies; I posted without realizing the little girl had passed. I'm so sorry.

Question: I'm not clear as to why you are mixing the Fox Valley 3:1 -- diluted formula can and will cause diarrhea as often as overly rich formula. I use FV, and the normal ratio is 2:1 powder to water..
I would try Albon for coccidia. Not sure about the Purina rodent chow, either. The best rodent block brands, to my knowledge and experience, are the Zupreem monkey biscuits, Harlan Teklad, and our own 4skwerlz's Henry Healthy Blocks.
I hope you are able to get your babies back to health soon....one or two of these ideas has got to help. I'll be hoping and praying!

[squirrelygirl15]

I have no sweet potatoes, and live in a rural area where the stores are not open at this time of night. Got any idea on a substitute? I am watering down the formula because that is what I learned to do in the class I took here in North Carolina to become a rehabber. I was taught that full strength forumla could be too 'rich' for some animals. My vet uses the same train of thought. I have to admit, I feel like you do, I really feel that they are not striving due ot lack of nutrients. The rodent chow I am using is LabDiet, not Purnia like I had previously stated. The Squirrel Rehabiliation Handbook by the Casey's found that it was a good all around full life cycle diet and I have used it for the past 2 years, not the same batch of course. I have to ask, are you a Long Island rehabber? I used to live there and wish I still did. Rural North Carolina is a pretty horrible place to live!

[squirrelygirl15]

Island Rehabber - I should have added, The Squirrel Rehabilitation Handbook compares several rodent chows and Zupreem is, according to the book, "not formulated for rodents". I used to use it and know several people who still do. I suspected the rodent chow too, and have still not ruled it out, but the squirrel that eats it the most and started to eat it the earliest, so far is the one who seems the healthiest.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I am sorry you have lost your baby, I know it is hard to watch and try and try some more and not feel they are gaining/making progress.

Although I am not licensed, I have top notch vets, in a few different practices. I have been taking in sqs for over 7 years, I do not profess to be anything but their momma. I have had many sqs with parasites and have used many different meds. Like IR, I would go full strength on the formula, and I would alternate pedialyte and formula. I also like homemade oral rehydration fluid best.
I urge you to try SMZ for this issue. I hate the fact it is friday night, and I hope that you can get meds on saturday. Please do try the SMZ.
If any of your chow is old, I would pitch and start fresh, it sounds as if you are cleaning well, so not thinking of reinfecting, just think you need a strong kick butt medication.
In your post#25...[quote]They certainly didn’t deserve to die. [quote], are both boys still alive?
I also would give them peeled apple chunks and a pecan half, healthy comfort food.
Good luck with them, we are sending good vibes to NC:grouphug
Sulfamethadazole...I think:thinking

[island rehabber]

hi sq'15 -- I feel much better knowing you've got the Casey's handbook there and it's LabDiet you're using :thumbsup:D. (I'm Casey-trained too.) But I still encourage you to strengthen that Fox Valley....I have been using it for two years now and never had a single case of diarrhea in all those babies except once when I accidentally overfed somebody while talking on the phone :shakehead. Do you have any apple? That might help her firm up, too.....a chunk of apple to nibble on. Jackie's right about alternating Pedialyte and formula -- it's a great way to hydrate and increase their appetites. Please keep us posted -- we're worrying right along with you. :peace