please help sick flying squirrel

[johden]

I have a flying squirrel (Skip) which we adopted about 5 weeks ago. She has been active and healthy until last night. I am guessing she is around 4 or 5 months old, but can't be certain. Last night she was lethargic and not hungry which is very unusual for her. There is no diahrroea, and she seemed to be urinating OK. This morning she seems even more lethargic and looks skinny. I managed to syringe 3ml of soy milk which she took. Her fur which is usually very sleek and shiny seems to lost it's lustre. She's also sleeping/lying flat legs splayed out rather than curled up in a ball. The symptoms appeared only to manifest last night. The only thing that I can possibly think of that may have caused this is the night before she may have nibbled on a piece of Oreo cookie which had been dropped on the floor which we found the next morning. would this have been toxic to her? Is there anything we can do to help her? We live in Thailand and (honestly) I don't trust the vets here. I have read many Thai forums who have taken their flying squirrels to vets which died after the "appropriate treatment" was given. THanks for youur help.

[Jackie in Tampa]

sqs require high protien high fat formula...soy milk is not enough.
Can you get esbilac puppy replacement formula?
Or Goats milk with yogurt and heavy cream added.
Sounds like possible calcium deficency...do you have calcium tablets or tums...I would crush and mix with water and get that into her asap, if that is not the problem, it won't hurt her...I would try to get 100 mg in to her within the next 12 hours, via syringe. Force her drop by drop.
Also heat, make sure she is on a heating pad set on low, half under the container and I always add a rice buddy, a sock filled with rice, tied off and heated in micro wave for 20-30 seconds, you will have to reheat every hour or so.
I doubt that the oreo would do this to her, my grey sqs ahhve had oreos in the past, I don't recomend them, but don't think it will kill her either.
Keep her hydrated...home made pedialyte between formula feedings.
1 quart warm water
3 tablespoons sugar
1 teaspoon table salt
refridgerate
Just a guess, but thinking no calcium...a vet injection may help if you cannot get her levels up.
We have a nutrition forum and also a flyer forum.
Can you post a pic so the rehabbers will know how to help you and your baby?
Someone will be here shortly.
good luck:grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191 this is nutrition forum

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3 this is fler forum

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17677this is MBD emergency treatment

[johden]

Thanks for your reply. Skip just died about 10mins ago. Towards the end she was twitching any time I touched her and every now and again would try to stretch or arch herself backways, arms right up. Her breathing then got slower and slower till it stopped.

We have another flyer as well (Snuggle) which we're assuming is her sister. She at this stage has no symptoms at all, but I'm afraid that she may start to develop some if we were not doing something right with Skip. Could it possibly have been a disease??? Or more likely diet???

I will try to find the puppy formula, but highly doubt if it is available here. The diet of both has been the same - apples, mangos, bananas, grapes, sunflower seeds, pine nuts, just a little dry dog and cat food. I tried carrots, chinese veg, cucumber which they both balked at and didn't eat...so were starving the next day! We have not given any soy milk until this morning when we saw Skip sick (I just knew we couldn't give cows milk). I can get access to cream here, goats milk is a little harder. Should I try and feed her cream/goats milk anyway???

My concern is that this happened so quick. I don't want to wait till it's too late again!

Thanks!

[Nancy in New York]

If you have a pet store..Pet Smart. PetCo whatever...You need to get the puppy replacer...or even a farm/feed store might have it.
They need calcium, no more DOG FOOD...please look at the links that Jackie suggested, these will be extremely helpful.
If you look at the MBD...you will see how fast these little ones can take a turn for the worse...get calcium into your other one immediately.
Someone will be on later too to help with this.
So sorry about your loss, I believe this was diet related and not disease...JMO

[Jackie in Tampa]

I am sorry for your loss, RIP Skip.

Moving to Snuggs,
no more pine nuts, they are high in phorsphorus, the worse nuts there are I think. Phos depletes calcium, so you go backwards.
Too much fruit also.
veggies veggies and calcium and more calcium.
I am going to post the healthy foods chart for you..
i am sorry so brief, I am a lousy typer,
Please pick things from the healthy list ONLY.
No more dog food or cat food as NIN has said.
If you can go to your pet stores and right down puppy formulas, we may can help you decide what will work best. Although in the past, other countries just don't have quaility options.
Goats milk comes in cans also, maybe easier for you to find, rather than cold fresh. It will be near evaporated milk, I am assuming.
be back with the chart.
Thank you for finding TSB and doing all you can.
Please do the pinch test on your Snuggs, gently pinching skin between sholders, if it stays tented, start hydration.
back soon.

[Jackie in Tampa]

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=67968&d=1232419601

[Nancy in New York]

If you have a pet store..Pet Smart. PetCo whatever...You need to get the puppy replacer...or even a farm/feed store might have it.
They need calcium, no more DOG FOOD...please look at the links that Jackie suggested, these will be extremely helpful.
If you look at the MBD...you will see how fast these little ones can take a turn for the worse...get calcium into your other one immediately.
Someone will be on later too to help with this.
So sorry about your loss, I believe this was diet related and not disease...JMO

I realized after I posted that you are in Thailand...not sure of the stores they have there for puppy replacer....:dono :dono

[johden]

Thanks. Just did the pinch test and it goes down, but slowly, so I'm assuming Snuggs is dehydrated. I've started with the calcium tabs already with her and that went down OK. I've just mixed up some pedialyte and will give that to her once it's cooled down. I'll have a look tomorrow at what they do have in "pet stores" here and let you know what's in the formula they have here. In the meantime, is it OK to give cream/yogurt mix without goats milk and rehydration fluid in between??? Is it normal for flyers to apparently have no symptoms and get sick and die so quickly?

[Ardilla]

I'll let someone else answer the question about just cream & yogurt, but I'm think no, you also need the goat milk. By the way, that goat milk recipe is only an emergency diet for while you're trying to locate a suitable formula. Don't use it more than a few days.

As far as whether it's normal to suddenly fall ill--no, it's not. It may seem sudden, but the squirrel has actually been suffering from a nutritional deficiency for an extended period of time before the situation gets severe. Once the situation is severe, it becomes very obvious the squirrel is sick. A healthy diet is essential.

I'm guessing your flyer was not getting enough fat or calcium.

[johden]

Forgot to ask... how fast should the skin go down if not dehydrated? Should it bounce straight back? or should I count like 2 seconds?

[Jackie in Tampa]

Thanks. Just did the pinch test and it goes down, but slowly, so I'm assuming Snuggs is dehydrated. I've started with the calcium tabs already with her and that went down OK. I've just mixed up some pedialyte and will give that to her once it's cooled down. I'll have a look tomorrow at what they do have in "pet stores" here and let you know what's in the formula they have here. In the meantime, is it OK to give cream/yogurt mix without goats milk and rehydration fluid in between??? Is it normal for flyers to apparently have no symptoms and get sick and die so quickly?
can you get evaporated milk, or even cows milk and add Dannon All Natural Yogrt, I use Vanilla...the yogurts with Fake sugars are not good...and fat free yogurts are not good. we are trying to add the right amount of fats, vitamins and calories, but all healthy....and heavy cream is NOT LIKE COOL WHIP or canned puffed up desert topping, it is from the top of cow milk...in a carton in the refridgerated section of market.
If you cannot find pppy formula, order the Fox Valley and in the mean while we will concoct something!:thumbsup
Members here have made up emergency formulas, so something can be done if you can get all these ingredients!
Chop p a bioled egg and try that. Give the egg shell and see if he will eat that too. Calcium.
Others will be here soon to help!

[johden]

Also, if I can find something that's like Esbilac, how long should I feed it (eg days, weeks??) is there some other food that I can feed her regularly with good fat content?
:thankyou

[johden]

Thankyou! I can get evaporated milk here easily (Carnation brand OK? It has to be unsweetened, right?), we don't have Dannon yogurt here, but is any natural yogurt OK? Is it better to be unsweetened or only if it's artificially unsweetened it's not OK? I can get cream too (the real stuff)

[Ardilla]

Feed her the formula as long as she'll take it.

Avocado has a good fat content.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Also, if I can find something that's like Esbilac, how long should I feed it (eg days, weeks??) is there some other food that I can feed her regularly with good fat content?
:thankyou
Try and find puppy formula in a pwoder form, and keep in fridge. She is old enough to be weaned, however many will take formla...insuring that they are getting all they need. If not mix the dry formula in yogurt and put on a plate...my flyers have yogurt every night. I also give them meal worms. They love dry oatmeal, almond butter, applesauce...any of these things can be mixed with powdered formula. Rodent Block is available at most pet stores and has alot of nutrition in them.
We have a member here that makes healthy food for sqs...Henry' Healthy Sq Blocks, HHBs...you can make them yourself or buy them on line.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18380
Mushrooms are a must for flyers, they contain D-3, helping to metabolize the calcium.

[johden]

Re: Mushrooms, can they be any type of mushrooms? The "normal mushrooms you find in the US are only here for a few weeks a year. We do however, have straw mushrooms, enoki mushrroms, ****ake mushroom, and tonne of other asian mushrrooms. Are these OK to give?

[Ardilla]

Any type of edible mushroom is fine.:thumbsup

[johden]

Thankyou! Just went to find out about puppy replacement. They something called Enterelcare (Formula V Enterel Care HLP) Crude Protein 9.5% Crude Fat 5.25% Fiber 0.2% Moisture 78%. The lady at the shop said that she used it for sick and injured animals and the label said it was OK to use for exotic animals too. I thought I'd check with you first.
The list of ingredients was huge so I didn't write them all down but I'm guessing it would be on the internet. If you could let me know if Enterelcare is OK, I will go and get that.

Thanks again!

[Jackie in Tampa]

http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=0&pf_id=0029407
it is PETAG!:eek:
I cannot help you, but 4 skwerls will be able to know...

PetAg


Formula V EnteralCare MLP Formula V® EnteralCare™ MLP is a sterile, ready to feed formula suitable for animals, such as dogs and cats requiring mid level protein. The formula provides enteral nutrition for critically ill or injured animals. EnteralCare MLP is fortified with vitamins, minerals and amino acids and is a diet which may be used for supplemental feeding as directed by your veterinarian.

Formula V EnteralCare HLP Formula V® EnteralCare™ HLP is a sterile, ready to feed formula suitable for animals, such as dogs and cats requiring high protein. The formula provides enteral nutrition for critically ill or injured animals. EnteralCare HLP is fortified with vitamins, minerals and amino acids and is a diet which may be used for supplemental feeding as directed by your veterinarian.

Instruction For Use (MLP & HLP) Use only as directed by your veterinarian. SHAKE WELL. Feed at room temperature. Cover and refrigerate after opening. Discard if not used within 72 hours, or freeze in single serving containers.


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
MLP
HLP
Crude Protein, min.8.0%9.5%Crude Fat, min.6.5%5.25%Crude Fiber, Max.0.2%0.2%Moisture, Max.78%78%
INGREDIENTSMLPWater, casein, maltodextrins, vegetable oil, butter, dried milk protein concentrate, dried hydrolyzed whey protein, guar gum, dicalcium phosphate, L-arginine, choline chloride, lecithin, DL-methionine, taurine, potassium chloride, carrageenan, calcium carbonate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, magnesium sulfate, vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, ascorbic acid, inositol, copper sulfate, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, thiamine hydrochloride, manganese sulfate, folic acid, vitamin D supplement, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, potassium citrate, potassium iodide, cobalt sulfate, biotin. HLPWater, casein, maltodextrins, vegetable oil, dried milk protein concentrate, dried hydrolyzed whey protein, butter, choline chloride, dicalcium phosphate, guar gum, L-arginine, potassium chloride, lecithin, calcium carbonate, DL-methionine, taurine, carrageenan, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, magnesium sulfate, vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, ascorbic acid, inositol, copper sulfate, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, thiamine hydrochloride, manganese sulfate, folic acid, vitamin D supplement, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, potassium citrate, potassium iodide, cobalt sulfate, biotin.


EnteralCare MLP and EnteralCare HLP are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog and Cat Food Nutrient Profiles For Maintenance.


PetAg, Inc.
255 Keyes Ave., P.O. Box 396
Hampshire, IL60140
1-800-323-0877
www.PetAg.com (http://www.petag.com/)

Disclaimer
Every effort has been made by Jeffers to ensure the accuracy of the information listed above. However, it remains your responsibility to become familiar with the products you are purchasing. Please consult your family veterinarian if you have any questions.

[Ardilla]

johden, the rehabber community has had TONS of problems with PetAg's puppy milk replacer, Esbilac. That's why Jackie is concerned about recommending EnteralCare. PetAg recently changed the formulation for Esbilac, causing many, many baby squirrels to sicken and die, and they may have done the same to the formulation for EnteralCare. If so, we would NOT recommend EnteralCare.

Were there any other puppy milk replacer brands?

[Skul]

It would appear diet is the main concern.
As others have mentioned, we have have had some problems
with the "new" esbilac (InteralCare) this side of the pond.
A product from Fox Valley is now recommended http://foxvalleynutrition.com/prod/products.asp?PLID=1
I would suggest the 20/50 for your girl.
In the mean time, feed what others have mentioned.
A couple other things you may consider are small worms or insects,
and perhaps a cooked chicken leg bone to chew on.

[johden]

THanks for checking up on that for me. I will try and look for Fox Valley. It wasn't a brand a I saw in the shop, and they didn't have any other puppy replacer brands at all. I will have to go and look elsewhere. In the meantime, I have given Sunggs yogurt, replaced all her foods with things on the "good" list, calcium tabs and made sure she is hydrated. She appears very happy and active. Should I also get some evaporated milk and mix with yogurt and cream too? If so what proportions should I mix?

One other question I have is about her fur....Over the last few weeks I have noticed little clearish "plastic" looking bits, almost like "dandruff" in a few strands of her fur ( not in clumps) mostly on her head and a very few on her body. Is this something to be concerned about? or is it part of molting? Other than that her fur is not patchy at all, has not been falling out and doesn't look greasy or dull and appears quite thick.

[johden]

I went out today to looks at other stores and found a few other puppy replacers
a) One is a Thai brand (so I won't bother typing it in Thai) and the ingredients are whey powder and sweet cheese whey. It has no other ingredients listed and says that the protein percentage is 39% and fat 22%
b) "Vita-Lac" is another one. It does not list the ingredients, but sayd protein 22% fat 25% and is recommended for newborn puppies and kittens and lactating dogs, contains no maltodextrins, sucrose or soy proteins and suitable for puppies with lactose intolerance
c) No name, just says "milk replacer" by Bearing (brand). Not a single thing was written on this one so have no idea of the content or makeup.

Are you familiar with any of these milk replacements?

[Jackie in Tampa]

sorry I can't help you with those brands of puppy replacer milk... I guess you were not able to find goats milk?
If you try the fox valley I think you will like it. Everyone says how wonderful Nick is, he had worked for Pet Ag and started his own QUAILITY company, seems everyone loves doing business with him and they swear by the product.
Thinking if you call him and explain the urgency, he will ship out to you fast...maybe THAT is the best choice!

[johden]

I did find goats milk actually, sorry forgot to mention it as I was so focussed on the puppy replacement. If you can let me know the quantities to mix I can go ahead and do that. If I do use the goats milk, should I only do it for a couple of days and not use it as a long term thing?

[Ardilla]

Yeah, the goat milk is short term. Hopefully you can get the Fox Valley shipped to Thailand.

I'm not sure on the exact ratios of goat milk to heavy cream. Hopefully someone will be in soon to answer that.

[johden]

THanks everyone so much. Really appreciate all your advice. Update on Snuggs...Since changing her diet and adding calcium etc the last couple of days, she has definitely had more energy and seems alot more alert. I hadn't realised that things were awry until seeing such a difference in her energy levels over the last couple of days. I was thinking that she was just bonding to me better.

Thanks for helping me to save Snuggs!:flash3

I know someone else here who has just adopted a couple of flyers too and will pass all this info onto them.

Thanks again!

[muffinsquirrel]

What kind of flyer do you have? We have Southern Flying Squirrels here for the most part - a few people have Northern Flyers. There are so many different kinds of flyers, almost all of them adorable. Post some pictures of yours if you can.

muffinsquirrel

[Jackie in Tampa]

Hello again...as others here have said goats milk is temporary, it is MY FORMULA. I am currently using it for my crew of grey sqs. I do not have any baby flyers, but if I did , they too would be using it. Since esbilac went upside down, I have decided to use GM again. I have used in the past on many many sqs with great success. I just hate the smells associated with it.
If using fresh GM from the frigerated section
1 cup GM
1/3 cup Dannon all natural vanilla yogurt
1/3 cup heavy cream

If using can of GM...you would need to dilute the Gm as it is concentrated.
Since you have such a tiny flyer, freeze the formula into usable portions. I would discard any left overs after 2 or 3 days tops.

glad to hear the extra calcium is making her feel better...this is going to be a forever issue...sqs need calcium and it is the hardest endeavor with having pet sq.
:poke Yes...where's the pics!
I must advise you to try for the fox valley,as others swear by it!:wave123

[Jackie in Tampa]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nMsxlZiYVkJihM:http://www.arkive.org/media/3C/3CE196F1-8404-450E-88BE-C5FFC18EEBD8/Presentation.Icon/photo.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.arkive.org/media/3C/3CE196F1-8404-450E-88BE-C5FFC18EEBD8/Presentation.Icon/photo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.arkive.org/threatened-species/mammals/p.html&usg=__shcji-P64Y0hPLymgO07qfCI6Cs=&h=55&w=55&sz=3&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=nMsxlZiYVkJihM:&tbnh=55&tbnw=55&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphayre%2527s%2Bflying%2Bsquirrel%26gb v%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX)
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:fd1zIhHbHpUAsM:http://www.animallovely.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/b4.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.animallovely.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/b4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.animallovely.com/%3Fm%3D200812&usg=__XXZu8J75ExoYebHU9KjWp6sQII4=&h=270&w=250&sz=41&hl=en&start=16&tbnid=fd1zIhHbHpUAsM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=105&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphayre%2527s%2Bflying%2Bsquirrel%26gb v%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX)
these are the only pics I can find and they are not really good for details...
Is this what your sq looks like?

[johden]

From looking up Thai squirrels, I think Snuggs is a Phayre's flying squirrel (she does look like all the other ones.
Her fur is blonde tipped. I have some pics but the last time I tried to load them on they were huge, so I'll try again. Hopefully they're smaller this time (I'm one of those technological cavemen who has absolutely no idea what I'm doing on a computer!)

[Jackie in Tampa]

i cannot resize them...but some one will.

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi Johden, How is Snuggle doing? Did you ever order Fox Vally Milk replacer? You will have to feed her some of Fox Vally mixed with yogurt, and heavy cream for the rest of her life. That will make sure she is getting enough calcium plus all the fresh veg. and fruits. I hope you can tell others about The Squirrel Board. Maybe it can help others Squirrels be for it is to late. I wish you all best of luck. Christal
P.S. the pictures are so cute. How old is Snuggle?

[flyer_1]

If the sister of the flyer that died is the same age she doesn't need any formula at this point she should be on solids and don't use any dehidrated or soy that's so bad for them. Esbalic or fox valley is the stuff to use for flyer pups, If you use esbalic fix it with two parts warm water one part heavy whiping cream and one part esbalic powder.

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 Hi! Johden, Just wonted to check in, See how you and Snuggle are doing? Did you ever get the Fox Vally Milk Replacer? Did Snuggle M.B.D. subside? All My Little Flyers always get some Formula, Whipping Cream, and Yogurt. Every day or every other day. The one who has had M.B.D., gets it Every day and extra calcium on her meal worms, and will get it for the rest of her life. Don't get me wrong. They eat a lot of fresh Veg, and Fruit, and Their Henry's Health Block. :D This way I always know they are getting the right amount of calcium. There are a lot of flyer people who give this to their flyers, or just yogurt. Some times you can mix the formula powder, yogurt, and cream. Then put a little bit on a dish. They will love it. Every one has their own opinion. I just hope you found someone to ship some Fox Vally to you in Thailand. CM918 I pray that you caught Snuggles M.B.D. in time. Wishing you and Snuggle a Long and Healthy Life to gather. Christal
P.S. We are waiting for pictures, and a update.

[muffinsquirrel]

I may or may not have resized the photos....anyway, I tried!

muffinsquirrel

[flyer_1]

Very cute. YES if it's MBD you want him on as much calcium as you can you can never give them to much calcium. I wish you well.

[Mrs Skul]

:wave123 If any one is reading this Johden is having trouble with Snuggs. They think she is overdosing on CALCIUM!! :eek: This is posted on the Non Life Threating Need Help. Thank you for looking. Christal

[Jackie in Tampa]

I did read thread...not sure...it is weird that yogurt has ANY bad affect on her sq...:shakehead :dono
I would think just the opposite!
is she buying HHBs? or making them herself?
maybe her calcium is wrong strength if she is making them!..?
hey there are plenty of people/pets that are lactose intolerant,...maybe that is the issue!:thinking :dono
sounds scarey...as heck!
white poops:shakehead
thanks Cristol for 'the head up':wave123