Imp is hurt again!

[niapet]

Hi all. I came home from work tonight and I'm was sleeping in the tv stand, as he does on hot days. Well he was awakened by my daughter and her friend and I noticed he had some sort of sore on his belly/chest. Anyway it was a small round spot with missing hair that seems to have a red wound of some sort in the center. He was outside two days ago but we did not notice anything until tonight; so I am almost positive he got the wound today.

Here are some pictures showing what the wound looks like (unfortunately they are not the best quality.. it is hard to get him to sit still during the picture...) anyway I would like to know the best way to deal with this type of injury since vets around here won't see him... =(

[PBluejay2]

Hard to tell from the pics, but the crater looking appearance, center reddish with a rim of swelling, don't rule out early botfly.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Maybe someone will resize pic, but I cannot tell what he has going on!
We are going to need better pics!
I would watch him, make sure poops and pees are good, and an appetite. If he seems lethargic, give him fluids and heat...watch him for anything out of his ordinary.
Sqs can heal really well if just wound from fight or fall!
Keep us updated, and give him extra kisses from Tampa!:grouphug

[Pam]

Imp's pictures resized.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o127/pampray/the%20squirrel%20board/imp2.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o127/pampray/the%20squirrel%20board/imp1.jpg

[niapet]

Ok, after looking up this bot fly thing I have become concerned that this may in fact be the issue... It is not large or swollen or tumor like in any way at this time; however, it does resemble the early stage bot fly infections I looked at...

My question is: are there bot flies that infect squirrels here in New England? If so could he have picked up an infection from relatively short excursions into the outdoors? Is there any way to tell if it is, in fact, a bot fly?

If this does turn out to be a bot fly, is it safe to remove it? I read that rehabbers often do this. If so... the method i was contemplating involves wrapping him up in a cloth, as if preparing for a tooth trim, and then making a small hole in the cloth over the pour and removing the larva with forceps. I would then, of course, flush the wound with chlorhexidine gluconate.

[muffinsquirrel]

If so... the method i was contemplating involves wrapping him up in a cloth, as if preparing for a tooth trim, and then making a small hole in the cloth over the pour and removing the larva with forceps. I would then, of course, flush the wound with chlorhexidine gluconate.

Just one small question - how many hands do you have? Because I can pretty well guarantee that it will take more than two. Unless you plan on using an awful lot of duct tape!!:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

Seriously, from what I've read, it would probably be best to let nature take it's course. If you try to remove it, and do not get the entire thing out it could easily cause a terrible infection, and then you'd really have problems! I know, though, that knowing that thing was inside my squirrel, would drive me crazy! "Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!..."

Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

muffinsquirrel

[niapet]

Thats true... I do have several people to help and I would go very slow and be sure to get it all out... I have penicillin at the ready just in case as well... I will try to get a better pic later so someone can confirm it is, in fact, a bot fly. Since if it is actually a wound it could be a lot more serious and I will need to clean it up and give him some antibiotics for good measure.


P.S. Does anyone think imp has bad luck??? Let me sum up his outdoor history...

First time: we found him being attacked by a cat at 5 or 6 weeks old with a dead mama.. Bad luck for him.. wonderful day for us...

Second time: he went out this spring to get a taste of the outdoors and a hawk attacked him, and even hit him... but he squirmed out and i spent an hour pelting the hawk with rocks while lexi coaxed imp down from the oak tree...

Third time: He snuck out and we couldn't find him for three days.. We are not sure what happened but he was acting very traumatized and schizophrenic for at least a week upon return home...

This last time.. he went out for a jaunt in the yard... everything seemed to go well.. .he stayed nearby, came (eventually) when called.. and had a general jolly time... but apparently picked up a disgusting parasite...


So.. is imp cursed? lol

[niapet]

Ok here are some good pics of what he has...

[niapet]

Can anyone confirm that this is a Bot fly?

[JLM27]

I think you better keep Imp inside. He has had more bad luck out there than any squirrel deserves, including a near death experience with a hawk that is still out there. Maybe he could have just a big ol' outdoor cage (some would call it a lanai). Bean has a lanai that he lets the rest of the family use too, since it has a nice pool in it.

A rehabber will have to help you with that sore. If it is a botfly, the consensus on here used to be to let it alone and let it run its course is the safest response.

[Anne]

Try gooping the area witha small mountain of Vaseline. Do not give him any "cillin". If it is a bot fly--it appears so- it will crawl almost completely out to breath. Grab it and kill it!

[Secret Squirrel]

If it is a bot fly...let nature take it's course. Keep the area as clean and dry as possible. The squirrel will do most of the work in keeping it clean.:)

The bad part about you trying to remove it, if you pull on the larva it hurts the squirrel..they are barbed little suckers!!
Also if you squish it while trying to remove it than it may die in the wound making for a secondary infection. I know you have Imp indoors...so keeping it clean will be easy. My out door kids get them every year. Nature has a great way of taking care if it's self.
Good luck:tilt

[niapet]

Try gooping the area witha small mountain of Vaseline. Do not give him any "cillin". If it is a bot fly--it appears so- it will crawl almost completely out to breath. Grab it and kill it!

This sounds like a good solution, so long as it crawls out enough to avoid the barbs hurting Imp.. Have you done this before? Is it safe and effective? If so will I need to hold him down while the vasoline is on him (I assume I will to prevent him from removing it himself).

At the very least I could try this and if something comes crawling out I will then know it is a bot fly and I can just let nature run its course... My main concern is that it may not, in fact, be a bot fly and I might end up letting a nasty infection go untreated..

Also, this morning, I noticed there was a little bit of crusted blood built up on his fur this morning... Is this normal for a bot fly? I assumed that he scratched it and made it bleed a little.. Any thoughts?

[Jackie in Tampa]

If it is a bot fly...let nature take it's course. Keep the area as clean and dry as possible. The squirrel will do most of the work in keeping it clean.:)

The bad part about you trying to remove it, if you pull on the larva it hurts the squirrel..they are barbed little suckers!!
Also if you squish it while trying to remove it than it may die in the wound making for a secondary infection. I know you have Imp indoors...so keeping it clean will be easy. My out door kids get them every year. Nature has a great way of taking care if it's self.
Good luck:tilt
If it is a bot { I do not think so???!!!} SS gave best advise.
The toxins will kill Imp faster than you can ever imagine if you break the larva off trying to remove...this is a no no! JMO! and my vets also...:dono
Reguardless, bot will not affect his health, they are strictly parasite and leave...
:grouphug hugs to you and IMP...
PS...I see BF all the time...really.
Yes it can be In New England...and the area surrounding the area will have NO FUR! The skin gets fever as it rejects the intruder and all hair falls out around site. The pics do not look like BF to me!
Also 'cillans' are not choice for sqs, in a life threating pinch I would use them, but not for something minor, jmo.

[niapet]

If it is a bot { I do not think so???!!!} SS gave best advise.
The toxins will kill Imp faster than you can ever imagine if you break the larva off trying to remove...this is a no no! JMO! and my vets also...:dono
Reguardless, bot will not affect his health, they are strictly parasite and leave...
:grouphug hugs to you and IMP...
PS...I see BF all the time...really.
Yes it can be In New England...and the area surrounding the area will have NO FUR! The skin gets fever as it rejects the intruder and all hair falls out around site. The pics do not look like BF to me!
Also 'cillans' are not choice for sqs, in a life threating pinch I would use them, but not for something minor, jmo.


ok, the area around the wound is bald, but if it is not a bot, what on earth is it? He is acting normal so I don't think it's a terrible infection... I suppose I will just let nature take its course... I will keep the area clean with clove and rosemary oil... I will only resort to the amoxicillin if he shows signs of a serious infection..

[4skwerlz]

Doesn't look like a bot to me. Looks like an abscess. Compresses with a hot, wet washcloth will help it drain.

If it were a bot, you'd see the head of the bot at the opening. The vets pull them out with tweezers with no problems, but it also won't hurt to let it run its course.

I believe it's an abscess though. As long as it's draining, which it is, it should clear up.

[Pointy Tale]

If it is a bot fly...let nature take it's course. Keep the area as clean and dry as possible. The squirrel will do most of the work in keeping it clean.:)

The bad part about you trying to remove it, if you pull on the larva it hurts the squirrel..they are barbed little suckers!!
Also if you squish it while trying to remove it than it may die in the wound making for a secondary infection. I know you have Imp indoors...so keeping it clean will be easy. My out door kids get them every year. Nature has a great way of taking care if it's self.
Good luck:tilt
Secret Squirrel: How long does it take in the wild to heal? Do you offer secondary support? If they get it on their paw-could they lose it?

[Pointy Tale]

If it is a bot { I do not think so???!!!} SS gave best advise.
The toxins will kill Imp faster than you can ever imagine if you break the larva off trying to remove...this is a no no! JMO! and my vets also...:dono
Reguardless, bot will not affect his health, they are strictly parasite and leave...
:grouphug hugs to you and IMP...
PS...I see BF all the time...really.
Yes it can be In New England...and the area surrounding the area will have NO FUR! The skin gets fever as it rejects the intruder and all hair falls out around site. The pics do not look like BF to me!
Also 'cillans' are not choice for sqs, in a life threating pinch I would use them, but not for something minor, jmo.
Jackie: Do you have any good pictures of Bot Fly for comparison?

[Secret Squirrel]

Secret Squirrel: How long does it take in the wild to heal? Do you offer secondary support? If they get it on their paw-could they lose it?


I have never treated the outdoor squirrels that get bot fly larva. They are considered wild once I release them. The host (squirrel) can do suprizingly well with several larva at once. This picture is from the internet...not my squirrel. I know it looks bad but the squirrels do just fine...scratch,scratch,scratch!!! It can take several weeks for the kidz to heal up.
Now, if it was my indoor babies...they would'nt have bot fly to begin with...LOL!!!



http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:3JmHRuPRG-qi5M:http://bugs.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/flies/squirrel_bot_fly12.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bugs.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/flies/squirrel_bot_fly12.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bugs.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/flies/squirrel_bot_fly12.htm&usg=__9Hwf1a5saxSPP9SznWQddIqTuFY=&h=465&w=487&sz=21&hl=en&start=187&um=1&tbnid=3JmHRuPRG-qi5M:&tbnh=123&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbot%2Bfly%2Blarvae%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3 Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26sa%3DN%26start%3D180%26um%3D1)

[Pointy Tale]

I have never treated the outdoor squirrels that get bot fly larva. They are considered wild once I release them. The host (squirrel) can do suprizingly well with several larva at once. This picture is from the internet...not my squirrel. I know it looks bad but the squirrels do just fine...scratch,scratch,scratch!!! It can take several weeks for the kidz to heal up.
Now, if it was my indoor babies...they would'nt have bot fly to begin with...LOL!!!



http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:3JmHRuPRG-qi5M:http://bugs.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/flies/squirrel_bot_fly12.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bugs.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/flies/squirrel_bot_fly12.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bugs.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/flies/squirrel_bot_fly12.htm&usg=__9Hwf1a5saxSPP9SznWQddIqTuFY=&h=465&w=487&sz=21&hl=en&start=187&um=1&tbnid=3JmHRuPRG-qi5M:&tbnh=123&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbot%2Bfly%2Blarvae%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3 Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26sa%3DN%26start%3D180%26um%3D1)
How do you know the difference between abcess and bot fly? So no treatment, not even ivermectin?

[Secret Squirrel]

A few more bot fly pictures from the internet.
http://omgjeremy.com.s57441.gridserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/botfly5.jpg

[Secret Squirrel]

How do you know the difference between abcess and bot fly? So no treatment, not even ivermectin?

Give the wound a few days to see what will happen. As long as it's draining OK, and the health of the squirrels seems to be fine, then it's best to administer the wait and see method.
Too many people want to medicate, medicate,medicate....just my thoughts here. If you want to apply something topicaly, I would just use a benidine rinse. No ointment that the squirrel can lick off.
How does the wound smell?

[Pointy Tale]

I think I understand, no smell. Have you seen this website about it?
http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/slansky/botfly/

[Pointy Tale]

I still think, to a regular person it would be hard to tell the difference between abcess and botfly because if it's an abcess then you get that funny colored stuff coming out of the wound, and if you have the botfly you have the "botfly" coming out of the wound-kind of looks the same, to a regular person.

Hmmm, could they lose their paw from it?

[PBluejay2]

How do you know the difference between abcess and bot fly? So no treatment, not even ivermectin?

Especially no Ivermectin or anything else that will kill the larva while still inside. The larva will rot and cause infection. The choices are attempt to remove it and accept the risks if the procedure doesn't go well or leave it alone and let the nasty damned thing run its course.

[Pointy Tale]

Ok here are some good pics of what he has...
I understand, Botfly-run it's course, NO treatment necessary!!!
But what if it is an abcess: here are the photos again.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=92705&stc=1&d=1250017481 http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=92704&stc=1&d=1250017481

[Secret Squirrel]

I think I understand, no smell. Have you seen this website about it?
http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/slansky/botfly/

A smelly wound in most cases is infection/abcess. I have smelled a bot fly wound and it had no smell, but it still oozed fluid.
This is a very good link...thanks Pointy tail.

The next question you ask about looseing a paw to botfly....I am sorry I have no clue. I haven't seen one on the hand yet. :dono

[Pointy Tale]

So then, the photos above, would that look more like abcess?

I'm sorry for the "20 questions".

[Pointy Tale]

Be right back, smoke dectector going off in kitchen:(

[Pointy Tale]

So then, the photos above post #26, would that look more like abcess? If so, how would you treat, if you weren't draining, ivermectin or nothing?

[PBluejay2]

So then, the photos above, would that look more like abcess?

I'm sorry for the "20 questions".

When I look at the two photos, in one the center is larger than in the other and seems to have a spot in the middle. Does this center get larger, then smaller, and so forth? If so, I'm still thinking early stage bot. Is there any movement at all? If it's an abcess, warm compresses will help it drain, but if it doesn't drain out by itself it may have to be lanced at some point.

[Pam]

Does this center get larger, then smaller, and so forth? If so, I'm still thinking early stage bot.
I showed the close up pictures to my husband. He thinks it is an early stage bot. In the early stage you might not be able to see movement.

[Secret Squirrel]

In either case, warm compresses will feel good to Imp. Keeping it clean and dry...as much as you can with a oozing wound. Give it the "time and lets see" approch.
As long as Imp is feeling good and eating well that is !!!

[whopoopwrasse]

I saw a video about bot flys a little while back, treatment is very simple but not for a squirrel. This was on a human, he simply covered each hole with duct tape for 24 hours so it would suffocate and the next day removed the tape and slipped them out, really gross but effective, you can see them being removed here, but this is not for the squeemish!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23eimVLAQ2c

Of course duct tape is not for squirrels since it would be gone in 5 minutes but this will at least let you see what you're dealing with if it is a bot fly....

[Pointy Tale]

In either case, warm compresses will feel good to Imp. Keeping it clean and dry...as much as you can with a oozing wound. Give it the "time and lets see" approch.
As long as Imp is feeling good and eating well that is !!!

Secret Squirrel: sound advice, understood.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Bot fly does not take several weeks ...not here anyway!tinfoil
once you notice it, it is maybe two-3
weeks and it is gone gone and half way healed...very fast!
The only time I have EVER seen problems stemming from BF is ONCE...Madge had 7-12 warbles circumfrencing her front leg high up under her arm pit...so many, skin was stretched too tight and circulation was cut off and she almost lost entire arm. Fred DID intervene with anti biotics for the infection of gan grene. He managed to save her arm after many agonizing weeks/months. The scars were always visible.

In the pics shown of BF {not Imps}...my sqs lose more hair at the site....
after the BF erupts and leaves...a big gapping hole is visible[ugly]...but starts healing immediately and fast!
Poof...next!
Not trying to disagree...but I see them alot!

[Pointy Tale]

If it's an abcess, warm compresses will help it drain, but if it doesn't drain out by itself it may have to be lanced at some point.
PBluejay2: Advice welcomed, appreciated, sound and understood. My feeling about boy fly now is—when you see it you will know it, it is distinct appearance to it.

And my new understanding is in either case: abscess or botfly leave it alone at first—let nature take it's course—it is not life—threatening, if infection starts then that warrants more discussion. Good advice—direct. Thank you. Sometimes it is hard to a regular person to see their little friend in...discomfort and we want to help.:(


I saw a video about bot flys a little while back, treatment is very simple but not for a squirrel. This was on a human, he simply covered each hole with duct tape for 24 hours so it would suffocate and the next day removed the tape and slipped them out, really gross but effective, you can see them being removed here, but this is not for the squeemish!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23eimVLAQ2c

Of course duct tape is not for squirrels since it would be gone in 5 minutes but this will at least let you see what you're dealing with if it is a bot fly....
Saw that yesterday too while doing botfly search, it was gross, and even worse they put duck tape on the guys back.

[merman]

Eeeekkkk..
Guys, if you cannot watch, please DO NOT..
I found this on youtube, extraction of botfly larva from a cat's eye using tweezers..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9ZDnt-WxI0&feature=related

It's too much graphic!! But cat doesn't seem to be unhappy during the extraction..

How the little Imp is doing by the way ??

xx

[niapet]

My Fiance claims she saw something move so she thinks it's a bot, however it has not grown so I am not convinced... Anyway he has been sleeping behind the TV lately (I believe because it is cooler than his nest) and he got spooked from a loud TV sound the other day so he was in his hiding spot for quite a while.. I don't think he slept for the whole of Saturday and Sunday and not he has been in bed all day... So when he is rested up and out tomorrow I will re-examine him and try the hot compress... Maybe I will try the vasoline just to see if something Tries to crawl out. I don't think I will attempt to remove it if it does, but at least I will know that the problem is at that point.

[PBluejay2]

My Fiance claims she saw something move so she thinks it's a bot, however it has not grown so I am not convinced... Anyway he has been sleeping behind the TV lately (I believe because it is cooler than his nest) and he got spooked from a loud TV sound the other day so he was in his hiding spot for quite a while.. I don't think he slept for the whole of Saturday and Sunday and not he has been in bed all day... So when he is rested up and out tomorrow I will re-examine him and try the hot compress... Maybe I will try the vasoline just to see if something Tries to crawl out. I don't think I will attempt to remove it if it does, but at least I will know that the problem is at that point.


IMO if you do the Vaseline thing, you need to remove the bot. Vaseline is to suffocate it,make it come up for air. You don't want it dying inside.

[JLM27]

Maybe a new picture would help. Poor little Imp! Is it getting bigger or pussier? The same? Redder? More bulge? Please listen to everyone on here. DO NOT kill the botfly unless you know you can get it out. A dead botfly could kill Imp.

[Pointy Tale]

How is Imp, any new pictures to post?

[niapet]

He seems ok, it does seem to be getting larger but it also seems to be growing a bit sideways.. Perhaps because it it on his belly and he lays on it?

[PBluejay2]

He seems ok, it does seem to be getting larger but it also seems to be growing a bit sideways.. Perhaps because it it on his belly and he lays on it?

The ''growing sideways"--if you mean the swelling seems to be going in one direction, forming a kind ot tube with the opening at one end--that again suggests botfly. It's going to get uglier before it gets better, but onver the nasty thing leaves home, they heal rather quickly.

[niapet]

At this point I'm sure it it a bot. We can see the black head moving a little and I believe I felt it move when I was feeling his belly. It is tube like and has gotten bigger with none of the other signs of a normal wound (ie puss or scabs). Ill post back when the damn thing comes out. Im gonna kill it and keep it in a jar of alcohol as a warning to other bot flies =P

[JLM27]

Glad to hear it is just a botfly, which, while gross, is natural, normal, and temporary. Sure wouldn't want one in my skin! Poor Imp! He does not have the best luck with the outdoors.

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

At this point I'm sure it it a bot. We can see the black head moving a little and I believe I felt it move when I was feeling his belly. It is tube like and has gotten bigger with none of the other signs of a normal wound (ie puss or scabs). Ill post back when the damn thing comes out. Im gonna kill it and keep it in a jar of alcohol as a warning to other bot flies =P Poor baby....IMP..
I'm with you...plop it in alcohol!!
::shivers::: :eek: you.."saw it move?!" :eek:
Hopefully...it will heal quickly..:thumbsup
Fluffy~

[Cecil]

I'm a compassionate man who believes critters deserve a good life...except for bot flies. Eccch...

[niapet]

UPDATE: The bot fly came out!!, But I can't Find it!! I assume it came out in his nest while he was sleeping.. I am at work atm and Lexi is looking for the little bugger.. Though they are not really little are they? It got Huge at the end!

[merman]

""Im gonna kill it and keep it in a jar of alcohol as a warning to other bot flies =P""

It must have heard what you have said, so hiding!! :)

Wow, i am glad it is out now.. Hope you can find and get rid of it!! Eeekkk!
Maybe your fuzzy kid has already taken the necessary actions!? :)

:wave123