Need info regarding intentional poisoning

[SemoreSquirrel]

About the middle of June I noticed a rapid decline in the number of squirrels, rabbits, blue jays and crows in particular which frequent the small town I live in. I set free Semore after having him through the winter(9 mos.). He came home everyday for goodies and Skitz would come often, too. Of a sudden no more Semore and no more Skitz and I haven't seen but one squirrel anywhere in town where there were very many in the past 6-7 weeks.
A neighbor said the people here with gardens may have poisoned all with poisoned grain. I need to know if this is legal and if there is any way to have a dead Squirrel examined to find the cause of it's death. There are many others who are concerned, one ask if I knew anyway to find out what can be done about this and where to take the dead to learn the cause so I said I'd contact TSB for help. I don't know if I have done this right but hope understanding will prevail and someone can help or direct us to find info. I live in a remote 55+ town in WA state where deer roam the streets so this is(by most) a very animal loving community of about 400 persons.

[Cecil]

Hi SemoreSquirrel. Every state and local community will have their own laws and regulations that cover what can or cannot be done with poisons. Where I live they are allowed to be used but their use must be controlled, i.e. placed in burrows or traps specifically intended for one type of animal.

To indiscriminately spread poison around and then not monitor what happens to it may not always be against the law but it is, in my opinion, criminal. Pets and even children routinely run across poisons that are used irresponsibly and the results are tragic.

But to have a whole town stripped of its native animal population....that's unbelievable....incredibly inane, stupid and selfish.

[PBluejay2]

Personally, I'd kill the bastard. I guess I'm beginning to lose sight of the distinction between the value of one life (human or animal) and the value of another (human or animal). So to save the many, eliminate the one.

On a more rational note, from what I understand, people can put out traps and poisons to get rid of nuisance animals (rats, mice) ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY (at least here), but can't set them out elsewhere. The definition of "nuisance" comes into play here, and in most states wildlife is the property of the state and can't be killed indiscriminatively, and all song birds have FEDERAL protection. Please check with your state's Fish and Game.

[muffinsquirrel]

You can take the body to a vet and have a necropsy done - they should be able to determine the cause of death. If your vet won't, or can't, do it, check in larger cities. If you can find a squirrel or bird that has just died, put it in a plastic bag and keep it in the refrigerator, and get it to the vet as soon as you can. If you won't be able to get it to the vet soon, then freeze the body until you can.

I hope that poisioning is not the cause of the lack of wildlife there. Poisioning is probably illegal unless done under controled circumstances, due to the fact that pets and children could possibly have access to it. Good luck in getting to the bottom of this,

muffinsquirrel

[SemoreSquirrel]

I thank all for your input. I did check out my state law and it is as Cecil said - must be controlled and for specific pest type. I am hoping the man who called for info from me will take the dead squirrel he has to a vet for the necropsy provided the vet will do it. With so many animals disappearing so quickly it would seem there has to be a "cause" with intent but I know this does not have to be so. I am therefore concerned with just what the problem is because it is a dramatic drop in our animal population. Worrisome!
More input is very welcome.

[Pointy Tale]

SemoreSquirrel—I am not a rehabber and speak from my own experience only.

I presume you are talking about tree squirrels, with that in mind, depending on where you live (temperature/predator wise), sometimes the tree squirrels are seldom seen during the daytime hours because of the summer heat—they will usually come out when it is cooler, like early morning or late evening just before dark.

Also, I have seen tree squirrels “hide”, not sure if that is the right word from predators like foxes/hawks—they seem to just disappear/relocate for a bit when danger is around.

Another possibility could be there is a lack of a natural food supply and they could have relocated in search of a better feeding ground.

A vet should be able to do an necropsy on your squirrel(s). Have you actually seen dead squirrels popping up?

If you live in such a loving animal community, what makes you think someone would really poison them? Did you see the dead squirrel—did it have any puncture wounds—or was it a seemingly healthy squirrel that was laid out flat?

I wish you and your Semore and Skitz well and hope you find the cause that is not your neighbor killing them—that would be most alarming and truly and deeply distressing.

[chickoo]

this just makes me MAD..............i dont know what to say.......:madd

[SemoreSquirrel]

In answer to Pointy Tale's Q's. I am referring to grey squirrels, yes, tree squirrels and am very aware of their habits. I've been deeply in love with them for many years and have taken in and cared for many including some pinkies successfully. I guess this is why I know something just isn't right about their disappearance, rabbits and jays and crows, also. I certainly hope this isn't happening elsewhere also. This remote town has about 40 miles of timber land on 3 sides and mostly farmland on the other so there shouldn't be a food shortage plus, many living here have squirrel feeders out and salt licks for the deer that roam our town. There are always a few people about who don't like animals especially rodent types and many have gardens and landscaping the wildlife wreck havoc with. I've not seen dead ones "popping up" but mine have always wanted to just hang out in their nest box if they didn't feel well like one with ground bee stings plus the predators and crows do a good job of cleaning up everything eatable and may be getting poisoned by feeding on the dead. The man with the dead squirrel says there is no evidence of it's cause of death. I haven't seen it. He is an animal lover also and knows critters well. I would love to find out that all the missing wildlife here just packed it up and are hiding out in the woods but they haven't in the past so why now?

Chickoo, I've read some of your posts and seen pictures. A very beautifully marked squirrel. I am heartbroken and very mad, myself. They are just all gone when they were abundant.

I am calling our Fish and Wildlife Service perhaps they have some answers.

[Pointy Tale]

SemoreSquirrel—I meant no disrespect to you whatsoever in my post, I was merely telling my own experiences and asking questions for my own better understanding of your situation, sorry if they may have offended you, that was never my intention.

I have seen, unfortunately many and I mean many of my squirrels and my neighborhood squirrels killed this year by a family of predators, it has been heartbreaking. The ones who were not killed have moved away—occasionally with searching I can identify them and am grateful for just a glimpse to know they are healthy.

Well, about the dead squirrel, I was asking because I have had squirrels killed by cars and there was no evidence of injury, just a limp body on the property. Again, I did not realize at the time of my post that you lived in such a small animal friendly town.

I have personally called Fish and Wildlife Service many times, they just document information and really have not helped in my personal situation. You may have more luck with your local animal control or town hall.

I do apologize for any misunderstanding—sometimes I think the written word does not actually come across like those we speak with the friendly upbeat tone in which I meant it.

I wish you and your furry friends well.

[SemoreSquirrel]

I know just how you must feel because no offense occurred to my mind but I apologize that it sounded so to you. May I suggest we shake hands and laugh it off. I much appreciate your help and concern. As you said. I found out nothing of value from Fish and Wildlife. I'll keep looking and asking Q's in hope of some answers. I'm not having much luck ....yet.

[4skwerlz]

Sometimes you have to encourage (almost force) Wildlife to enforce their own laws. Go to their webpage and look up "nuisance wildlife." There you will usually find the laws regarding what can and cannot be done legally as far as trapping, poisoning, and so on. For example, typically, poison cannot be just put out openly, but must be contained somehow to keep unintended animals (pets, protected wildlife, birds) from eating the poison. Certain types of poison may only be used inside the home, etc. Print out these laws so you can quote them to the wildlife officers (most of these folks spend 99% of their time enforcing fishing/hunting laws and are amazingly ignorant of other types of wildlife laws). Definitely get a vet to confirm poison on the dead squirrel. Watch carefully for other dead animals. Try to figure out which neighbors might be doing this and do some detective work. Pretend to trim branches, take a walk, birdwatch, etc., while you check out their property. Take lots of pictures. Take notes on dates, times, locations. Find out the name, address, and phone number of the neighbor who is doing this.

Finally, armed with all your evidence call your local wildlife dept. and tell them what's going on, tell them what evidence you have, and quote the law to them. Ask for the name of whoever you talk to, and take notes on every phone call (date, time, officer spoken to, what was said/promised). Then follow up with phone calls to find out what actions were taken. If the agent won't act, try asking for a supervisor. If that doesn't work, go over their heads: call the State wildlife dept. If they won't act, call the Federal folks. Be very polite ("yes sir" and "yes ma'am") and try to sound like a sensible but concerned good citizen.:D

I struggled for two years with a neighbor who was illegally trapping/relocating squirrels. I got nowhere with the local depts; but when I called STATE, the problem was taken care of quickly.

Another idea:
Get together with your other concerned neighbors and make up a flyer; something like "Neighborhood Alert: Local Wildlife Poisoning" Then state what's been happening, quote a paragraph from the LAW. Mention that it's a FEDERAL offense. Note that Federal officials have been called and will be investigating, and ask for anyone with information to call a certain number (either wildlife, or a neighbor's number). Put one of these in every mailbox.

Best of luck.

[Pointy Tale]

SemoreSquirrel—yes, yes, friends:D :sorry.

Yes, 4skwerlz is right on the money, pictures are your best defense, and they can tell the story without you having to and finding out the laws—harder but well worth it.

It is hard to say what is happening in your situation, do you have the time during the day/night to poke around the neighborhood and discreetly take pictures of anything odd?

About my situation, I took pictures and documented everything—I went local to police, county animal control, state and even our congressman. Every time I would see something, I became so calm, grabbed my camera first—got as many pictures as possible and then did the deterring. I then called the Fish and Wildlife > Wildlife > Wildlife Control Unit > DEP Hotline and eMailed our congressman, every time I saw something or something happened, and I mean every time. I did it so many times a day that they started to know who I was.

Our local assembly representatives were shocked at some of the pictures I sent, they more willing to help me personally and wanted action to be taken.

In my situation, I talked with local neighbors—I actually begged them to help me (I have never begged or wanted anything so desperately, but I did that for my little friends, I didn’t care). My neighbors laughed at me, it was a big joke.

How can I help you with your situation to stop what you believe to be humans killing our furry friends?

[SemoreSquirrel]

Thanks, 4skwerls. I will be trying to get others involved and helping. I called and left a message for the man with the dead squirrel w/info I've received from all sources. I haven't heard from him - don't know if he had it examined.

Pointy Tale, if I can think of anything you could help with I will get in touch here and thanks for the offer. More info about this situation. The Pacific NW has had record breaking hot weather for 2-3 weeks now. I've held off doing much except phone calls - 2 reasons - I'm disabled, don't get out much, not at all in any bad weather and because the animals don't come out in the heat. They were gone before the heat wave and I've been hoping they would show up when the temp got back to near normal as it has just today. (75) They often know before we do when a bad spell is around the corner and start preparing so I still hope this may be the case and I will post if I learn anything. I don't want to even think anyone here would be ignorant enough to poison any and have it get out of control to boot. It is, however, possibly a better answer than anything in our environment killing them. Poisoning can be stopped, the environment isn't easy to fix. I'll keep researching and poking around to see what more I can learn. I do have a camera to capture evidence if found.

[Pointy Tale]

SemoreSquirrel—this situation is so perplexing, if only you knew what happened to the squirrels—all of them. It’s just so hard to imagine—environmental, or poisoning—very hard to say. I hope humans are not behind this and also hope it’s not environmental.

Do you remember the last time you saw your furry friends? Does anything ring a bell about the weather, or anything?

I wish you well, please stay indoors as the temperature and humidity sore—it’s not worth get sick over.

All the best,

[SemoreSquirrel]

I keep a very sporadic squirrel diary. I've not seen Semore since 6/27. I normally feed all the squirrels but in early May I let Semore enjoy soft release so had discontinued the big feed so he wouldn't have to fight all the possessive adults. Once he began staying out all night, he came everyday. All winter he had free run of the house usually all day so he would sometimes lounge around most of the day on his visits (he has nuts buried all about the house). Skitz was released spring of '08 friendly but never handled because she was a young adult w/injury but she would also return for goodies. At our Park squirrels were abundant and folks go sit and feed them raw peanuts + ???. I think I will post on our town bulletinboard asking if anyone knows where all our little animals have gone with my phone # attached. We, as residents, own the town so we are all more like a big family of 55+ and all our #'s, addresses and names are available to each other. I love it here and the animals are all pretty relaxed with humans.
Sorry, I've gone on so. I am so distressed by the loss of all my little friends

[4skwerlz]

I do sympathize.:grouphug I "looked after" my group of beloved wild squirrels for years. I helped them when I could and did my best to protect them from a neighbor who was trapping them. There's really only so much you can do.... the unusual heat will definitely affect their habits. Be sure you leave plenty of cool water out for them. During heat waves, I used to put ice cubes in the birdbath and spray down the trees to cool the area. I hope and pray you see your little friends again.:grouphug

[SemoreSquirrel]

Info update. The man with the dead squirrel called. He has company from Wyoming so hasn't pursued any further. He has the little body in freezer and will follow up soon after his company has gone home, I know not when. Body was found in the Park where there is no traffic. Our 'out in the woods' squirrels will filter in, it is easy to tell the real wild ones, they are very cautious and scamper at any movement or sound. I am very concerned for them all.

[SemoreSquirrel]

Update. The man with the dead squirrel says he has called many vets in SW WA with no luck finding one who will necropsy it. Is there anyone among you who may know of one who will do a gray squirrel necropsy? I would be willing to transport to around 200 miles one way I also would need to know cost of this procedure to know if we need to take up a small collection to cover it. Any input would be much appreciated.

[muffinsquirrel]

Try asking the vets if they know who would do one. Get in touch with the closest college that offers vet medicine - they will probably do it, or can tell you of someone closer. I have no idea what the cost would be - prices differ so much due to location.

I have always mailed my squirrels off for necropsies. (NFSA has a program for necropsies on flying squirrels. They are done at Miss. State University by Dr Cooley, as a part of an on-going study on flyers.)Freeze one or two of those packs that you put in the freezer (and then are used in an ice chest). Pack the body in a plastic zip lock baggie. Then put that bag, and the ice pack, into another zip lock bag, and then another just to make sure there is no leakage of water. I put this in one of those small lunch box sized insulated bags, (you could also use a small styrofoam ice chest), then put that in a cardboard box with styrofoam packing 'peanuts' and ship it by overnight mail or UPS or whatever. Make sure the vet knows when the package is due to arrive.

I hope this helps you some, and I hope you find out what the problem is with your squirrels. Could the State Health Department help you with finding someone to do the necropsie? Or would that just cause problems, or be another dead-end?

muffinsquirrel

[SemoreSquirrel]

I have some good news. Semore showed up today after having been gone since late July. I am so surprized. The animal population is still not as it should be here and I had no luck in getting a necropsy on the little dead one. I sure wish I knew where Semore has been and why but I won't' be so quick to think him dead in the future.

I want to thank everyone who tried to help, you did help me make it through my believed loss of him. I hope the other missing ones will show up as he did.

I can't wait to see if we will become good friends as we were before. I have missed him so much.

Thanks again.