Three Foxes—Killing Spree During Daytime—Graphic

[Pointy Tale]

Subject: Three Foxes—Killing Spree During Daytime—Graphic

I am begging for help, support, ideas and prayers. It is a long story, but here are the quick facts.

We have notice increased Fox activity and killings during the daytime. We have three foxes, possibly a fourth. We believe two to be smaller, so children.

They are not on our property at night as far as we can tell.

My husband phoned animal control, and spoke to a very nice woman, who spent a ½ hour on the phone with him. Animal Control has received over 60 calls about this over the weekend from my town. They know about it.

April 8th—3PM—Fox out with its kill in its mouth.

Since May 17th or so, activity became very obvious, we have called our local police, they are aware of it. They advised the Fox is more of afraid of me, I should clap my hands and it will leave.

Since May 24th the presence of three foxes has increased, for example:

Sunday—AM—Fox passing through the backyard. It basically looked at me for a moment before proceeding. I had to yell, to make it move away.

Sunday—PM—Fox passing through our property to go across the street, stopping to look at us, just looking—now we saw at least three, one big and two little ones. We called the Police, they came and said Fox is more afraid of us, I should clap or make noises and it will go, Police said they are aware of it, it lives behind our neighbors house, people over there are complaining about it also.

Monday—AM we found the insides of an animal remains at the front door.

Thursday—9AM or so—I was walking to my veg. garden in the backyard and there was a fox, its mouth looked green about twenty feet away from me. I clapped my hands—it stayed for a while, slowly moved to the side of the property—I followed and chased it off of the property. When I backtracked I discovered two animals a dead cardinal and a chipmunk covered in blood with a puncture wound under his chin. What happens next is a long story saved for another day, suffices to say I failed this chipmunk, despite the amazingly fast responses from our rehabbers. I am so very sorry.

Thursday—the fox came back around 11am to retrieve its kill (the cardinal).

Friday—Fox attack in the morning—small domestic animal (I think kitten). Again it left its kill. Again, it moves away from me, but certainly is not afraid because it will stand across the street and wait. Before I could retrieve it, the Fox was back. Reported to Police, they said they would make a note.

Saturday—Foxes out again—Kill left.

Sunday—Morning, Foxes were out all morning. They were coming and going through our property to across the street. They basically sit across the street and stare at you, for a long period of time, they do not move. The foxes are now are barking at us. We watched, the foxes always retreat to behind my neighbors property, always standing there hiding and watching us to see when they can come over, if we step back where they can’t see us, they emerge again.

Sunday—Morning—After they had been gone for a while, we let our guard down, Fox walked across our property with a squirrel in his mouth. After it crossed the street, it stopped where it normally does and just looked at us. Just looked and did not leave.

Sunday—1:30PM—3:00PM. Fox was up on our property, actually in the neighbors property, it would see us, look at us and then after moments, go back into hiding. This kept up for almost two hours when it chose to dart from the neighbors property through ours across the street, where again it just looks at you.

Monday—Today—9:45AM—Fox moved slowly pasted me, looking at me with its kill in its mouth.

I am a shy and private person by nature, but this too much for me to bear alone. It is my belief that 1) the foxes no longer have food at night to sustain themselves or 2) they have rabies and 3) a neighbor is harboring them.

My heart physically aches, I need help.

[Buddy'sMom]

So sorry you are witnessing this -- it must be heartbreaking to watch this with the small animals. :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

Is there no Animal Control authority you can call? Although the foxes seem to be doing their normal fox-thing (nature is cruel to watch, sometimes), it seems they are perhaps getting too familiar with humans and interacting more than is safe for anyone. (unless you are in a very rural area -- if it's a residential community, probably something should be done before a small child gets hurt.)

If no animal control, perhaps the local TV station?

It does NOT sound like they are rabid animals. Rather, acting calm -- and smart. They seem to have learned that clapping is a momentary annoyance -- something to be cautious of, but ultimatley not harmful.

In Maryland this past year, there was a young black bear wandering around the edges of residential communities, looking for a good place to make home, but sadly far from normal black bear habitats. He didn't really get into trouble, but they tracked him up and down the state to see if he would move on by himself. Ultimately they decided he was getting too comfy among humans and they relocated him back to a more suitable place before something bad happened.

It's too bad your police seem so unconcerned. It's hard to fault the foxes for doing what they must do to survive, but the police and animal control should not wait until it is a child before getting involved. (I'm not meaning that a chipmunk or cardinal or kitten are less deserving of protection, but just that the implication of "a child is next ... " might get more attention)

I hope there is a way to resolve this. If foxes are not normally in your area, perhaps relocation might be considered. If they are normally around, perhaps someone can figure out why the sudden killing spree -- what changed for them?

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

EDIT: I went back and read more carefully and see that you did already call animal control -- perhaps after so many calls they will formulate a plan???

[Pointy Tale]

Yes, I ultimately believe that if the foxes are not afraid of me and I am woman almost 6 feet tall and not puny by any means, my husband is over 6’3, the children in our neighbor that I am aware of ranging from Pre—K to a bit older will not pose a threat. Children are walking to school during the time the foxes are crossing the sidewalks. Two pedestrians thought it was cute.
We have contacted animal control, they received something like 60 complaints over the weekend from my town. They were friendly and nice.

We are all residential here, our neighbors have little children, and one neighbor has a dog.
So far, no one wants to help us trap and relocate, we have called.
A trapper called my husband back, said find the hole and put human urine in there. As I try to respond, I am a slow typer.

[thundersquirrel]

It sounds like they might even be released foxes- from a rehabber. They seem to associate human areas with food. That's unacceptable, and you should contact your department of natural resources (or whatever equivalent you have) to ask about fox rehabbers and where they release.

We had starving foxes in the field behind our yard in a recent winter (we live in the suburbs, and the field is the only green place for a few miles around). The bunny population was gone very quickly. Our vet told us to put out dog food because the foxes were probably starving. We did so. The problem is, they got a little dependent on the food. We stopped when summer came.

Good luck.

[Pointy Tale]

what is the department of natural resources?

We no longer have our rabbits either, we just haven't seen it.

[TexanSquirrel]

First off - I think they will eat trash and dog food, so maybe organizing the neighbors to make sure no food/water is outside could discourage them.

Second - When you clap at them, how do you go about it? Are you just making noise or are you acting like you're going to get them if they don't run off? They may have figured out that you're just making noise and are not actually going to do anything.

Third - If it makes you feel any better, I've heard that they will kill things, hide it and come back for it later. They can't eat as much as a dog in one sitting, so they will save a portion and eat when they're hungry again. They're not just killing things.

I noticed you called the police several times. I don't think they care, or that they really should. Nobody calls the police for coyotes around here. It's just not their problem, you know? If they're not exhibiting any dangerous behavior, then what do you really expect them to do? Come out and shoot them because someone complained? Around here if you want the coyotes gone you get rid of them yourself. You could save yourself some trouble though by not bringing them to your front door. I'm thinking that the bird feeders and the squirrel feeders have concentrated the prey like a chicken coup - why wouldn't a fox want to hang out there?

Sounds like you're scared of them and worried about them at the same time. What kind of help are you looking for?

[TexanSquirrel]

lol BM - great minds...:D

I'm not surprised no one wants to help you get rid of them. o.O

Besides, what would stop new foxes from moving right back in?

[Pointy Tale]

I am AFRAID of them. I would like them gone.

First—No food that I know of that we have outside.

Second—When I clap, it is hard, I move my body forward. I yell…hmm how do you say “Huh Huh Huh” Loudly. I have wave a rake in my hand. I try to chase. I’m afraid one day, they chase me.

Third—I’m sorry, it does not make me feel better. I am not convinced they don’t kill for sport, I don’t know.

About the front door, there is nothing there, no food no bird feeders, it was odd.

No food in any bird feeders. I have since stopped.

I am not worried about the fox, I am worried about me, going to my garden and getting mistaken for prey, I just don’t want a bunch of fox supports to think I am big XXX XXXX and I can't take a lecture.

[4skwerlz]

Could you get a bb gun...the kind that shoots a rubber bb? It makes a sound like a real gun (almost) and you could deliberately shoot to miss but the sound would definitely scare off the foxes. Possibly for good.

[Pointy Tale]

I am going outside to make a patrol. I will be back in five minutes to check replies.

[TexanSquirrel]

not ignoring you, got to feed these kittens, brb

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I am thinking you may have a rabid fox on your hands :dono. Either that or a starving one, although if he were starving he should be eating his kills. Are you disturbing him with the kill that he has made so he has to run off and doesn't have an opportunity to eat, or is he left alone and leaves on his own leaving the kill behind?

I don't think this is normal at all. Fox are usually very skiddish. Their main diet is not really birds and rabbits either. Usually they eat grasshoppers and voles, mice, etc. in a field.

I think unless TS is right and these are recently released fox, that the fox is sick with either rabies or something. I'm no fox expert though.

[Bravo]

I checked one Animal Services (http://www.toronto.ca/animal_services/fox.htm) page... not encouraging.

They recommend fencing and installing galvanized heavy wire screening, along with breaking the food chain that attracts them, eg. bird feeders that attract birds that bring squirrels, etc. In other words, building a fortress. apparently spraying them with a water hose is one way to make them "feel unwelcome".

As an omnivore, foxes like other animals have adapted to urban environments and will follow after food sources. When food is not available, they will move on. According to this agency, the only possibility of direct intervention is when they growl, threaten or attack pets and children.

[TexanSquirrel]

I thought they ate rabbits all the time. I always thought that bunny people hate foxes like squirrel people hate hawks. I'm on another forum with bunnies and they worry about foxes coming into their yards and getting their rabbits while the rabbits are out in their runs.

[TexanSquirrel]

I am AFRAID of them. I would like them gone.

First—No food that I know of that we have outside.

Second—When I clap, it is hard, I move my body forward. I yell…hmm how do you say “Huh Huh Huh” Loudly. I have wave a rake in my hand. I try to chase. I’m afraid one day, they chase me.

Third—I’m sorry, it does not make me feel better. I am not convinced they don’t kill for sport, I don’t know.

About the front door, there is nothing there, no food no bird feeders, it was odd.

No food in any bird feeders. I have since stopped.

I am not worried about the fox, I am worried about me, going to my garden and getting mistaken for prey, I just don’t want a bunch of fox supports to think I am big XXX XXXX and I can't take a lecture.

I really don't think they're going to eat you. They should only be a max of 20 pounds or so...

[Pointy Tale]

The professional trapper said, my state law does not allow Fox to be controlled unless deemed a threat to health and human welfare, which must be proved. He provided us a number, which we have called, but no one was there. We will try to plead our case, any suggestions helpful… If successful they might issue a permit and the trapper said he would be willing to trap, but it is all conditional.

We are not sure if we are disturbing it or not during the kill. The fox does come back for the kill at times and leaves it at other times. There are three foxes, so I’m not sure which is doing what.

We have put up a temporary barrier where we think it “passes through” to deter it into the open. We have cut tree limbs and shrubs pulled any weeds. We have removed food from bird feeders. For the public record I do not have squirrel feeders, never have. I am concerned that by doing these measures that something worse will happen.

I was thinking about the water hose too this evening, but what if it attacks me?

[Pointy Tale]

I really don't think they're going to eat you. They should only be a max of 20 pounds or so...

Trust me, if something odd where to happen to someone, it would be me. Everyone says don’t worry, they’re more afraid of me, they clearly are not. Yes, 20 pounds, but big, sharp teeth, I am tall, but I don’t think I want to find out if I stand a chance.

[Pointy Tale]

I will be right back, I have to go outside to patrol again.

[TexanSquirrel]

Are you sure they are foxes? Because I've seen foxes and I've never thought they would eat me...how big are they?

[TexanSquirrel]

Well hmm...Not back from patrol yet...I hope everything's alright. And I hope we can find an ideal solution. :thumbsup

[JFerret]

Pointy Tail,

Will the trapper come and trap the foxes for you? If not, can you inlist the help from your neighbors to try and come up with a plan to trap the foxes yourselves. It seems like no one in power to help is willing to do so. Maybe the trapper can tell you how to go about it?

[Mads]

My sister was having some issues with a big black bear last year. He would actually lay out and spend the night in her backyard every single night and eat the leftover bird seed on the ground. She couldn't let the dog out at night , afraid of the bear. But what they did was mark their own territory around the property with human waste....of course , they live in on a dead end off a dirt road, so marking their territory was easy enough due to no close neighbors....and it worked. The bear did not return after a week of marking.

[TinyPaws]

Sorry about your worries....Perhaps a powerful water gun would work...this way you don't have to go out to turn the hose on, the gun would be there by the door....

As far as fox attacks....there was a news video awhile back that showed a fox attacking a man in a parking lot...twice....turns out the fox was rabbid...your foxes don't sound rabbid, but if you have racoons and one is rabbid, it could spread to foxes, especially if they were to injest the body....

Another thing you can try is taking out a pot with a metal spoon and banging on it, while your husband throws stones at it to chase it away....

Also, don't know if it would work, but...buy alot of pepper and spread it all over the grass...a few sniffs from that and they should leave....or spread human urine around....

[Pointy Tale]

I took so long because I was outside cutting some more tree limbs and shrubs.

It is illegal to trap a fox in the state I live. The law is something like…Does Not Allow To Control Fox”. The only way to trap a fox is to obtain a permit from the state, and then the trapper will come and trap. However in order to obtain a permit I must prove that the fox to be deemed a threat to health and human welfare.

I’m not sure how to prove that the fox is a threat to health and human welfare. I can tell you honestly my heart is having serious pains all weekend, deep pain. The situation has disrupted my life in the sense that I am not able to go outside without being fearful I am the next prey, although they say it won’t happen, I don’t want to take that chance. It’s not like an occasional thing, it’s like something changed and it’s all the time, every day. 60 People from my town called Animal Control over the weekend about the foxes.

I live less than 1 mile from the public schools.

OK, so let’s talk more about marking the territory. Does that mean urine or fecal matter? Or both? And, are you actually serious. So, you get go in a cup and then what, pour it all over the perimeter of the property, like the curb, the neighbors fence. Please be specific because I do not know any better.

TinyPaws—Excellent about the water gun, please help me to find one, links, stores anything, I have no good searching skills especially now and I am a slow typer. Tomorrow morning I am outside. Preferrable a store I can drive to, internet ok too, but driving so I can get it right away.

TS--Have pictures of fox, but hestitate to post publically because of visual location. Should I anyway?

[Pointy Tale]

I keep getting bumped out and have to sign in again. Sorry, I did something wrong again.

I am signing off for the night. I want to wake up early to “mark” the territory. Forgive me everyone. I hope this was a true suggestion and I am willing to do this.

Please pray for us, I need all of the help you can offer. I will read back as soon as possible tomorrow. I am grateful for your responses and for being there for me.

[TexanSquirrel]

I don't think anyone here thinks you have done anything wrong! You have a legitimate concern and are looking for the best solution.

Don't worry about the photo if you're not comfortable posting it.

I can't speak for anyone here, but I'm serious about the marking thing. We've done it using urine.

I'll look into water guns for you. Be back in a bit...

[TexanSquirrel]

Okay, I clicked through a couple sites and liked this one best. It has the best range I could find - 70 feet. Most of the others are only 30.

http://www.amazon.com/Water-Sports-TL-750-Stream-Machine/dp/B0000AXRF5/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1243908753&sr=8-2

It also has positive reviews...

"Actually bought the water launcher to scare the neighbors cats away from our many bird feeders; this thing really works and it does it without harming the animals. We needed something that would go over 50 ft and this toy does the job."

amazon has a lot of water guns so if you don't like that one you can click through the others. Good luck!

[NaturesGift]

It is very possible they are out in broad day light trying to meet the demand of raising kits. I know coyotes will do this. So may trapping and relocating in not wise unless you can relocate babies as well. Right now is baby season. :peace *hugs*

Mandie

[toni92097]

I just saw this! I have foxes - for years we have- and they are quite accustomed to people. No one feeds them, (except the neighbor's cat food maybe? )they just enjoy the rabbits and got used to us carrying on.
they have never been rabid but we did rescue a kit that cried for days before finding my mom and literally running her down, desperate for milk! It was later rehabbed and released far away from here.
Just so you guys know they likely aren't rabid! Even sick ones usually have distemper.
Our foxes are too small to kill people even if they wanted to!

[Pointy Tale]

I am here. I am outside spreading urine as advised, I hope that was serious. I will print threads to read there. Thank you. Please continue to send prayers, ideas, critism, anything.

[4skwerlz]

I have heard of this technique of marking territory. Hopefully it will work.

Try not to get too upset (I know it's hard). :grouphugMother Nature can be cruel and very hard to watch sometimes, and hard to understand. :shakehead And there's only so much we can (and should) do to interfere. Are you sure they're foxes and not coyotes?

I definitely agree the water gun is also a good idea (use warm water). The animal feels that he is "hit" by something, feels the wetness, which he will think is blood, and panics. And no one can object to a water gun as opposed to a bb gun.

You take some deep breaths and be strong.
:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug

[longshotgamble]

So sorry to hear these fox are terrorizing you and your neighborhood. I grew up in an area with coyotes and am not so worried about your safety. At the same time, be careful and I would say the water gun with a pie tin and spoon for noise should keep them at bay.
I really think the spreading of urine will keep them off your property. My better half thinks the yard is his personal urinal :sanp3 and then the dog does his part also.
I hope you are well PT and if I could do anything I would; my dad has a trap and I have no sense....if only I were closer to you. I know it would be illegal; like that has ever stopped me....
Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
PS: I have an irrational fear of birds; big, small, free or caged doesn't matter. Think I may have been a squirrel in another life.:peace

[Pointy Tale]

OK, so here is the update for today. I printed posts to read outside. I was there until a little while ago.

We have begun “marking” our territory, didn’t have enough to complete the job, but working on it. We began where we saw them and are continue as we have more “marking” fluid. I really hope this works, if not everyone on this board will have a belly laugh at my expense.

We saw one fox, not all three this morning and it was on a neighbor’s property. As of now, we have not seen it cross the street—this does not mean it’s not here, just that I don’t see it, this can be good or bad, we just don’t know.

Other things we’ve done since yesterday, installed a temporary wood barrier at the area we see them. We have cut tree limbs, cut hedges. This is giving a better view of the area. To make sure everyone knows, there is no food there either. We have called state to plead our case for a permit to trap. No response, no one answers the phone.

About the “marking” we kind of think it was trying to mark our property because we were smelling something funky, so I guess it’s good we are doing it.

TexanSquirrel—You are a lifesaver, I never would have been able to find anything like that, especially that fast. I am grateful to you and sincerely thank you. I have linked it, sent link to my sister (who has Amazon account, I don’t, can’t figure it out that fast), she has ordered it. She got confirmation. It is on the way!!! Arrival on June 4th, I think. We ordered two!!!!!

Should we put “marking” fluid in the “water machine” that I ordered, or just warm water?

So all of that was the good news.

Unfortunately, I have some bad news. The bad news is there was another little one, and I mean little was dead on the property.

Back outside for a bit.

Thank you.

Please continue to send prayers, ideas, criticism, anything. I appreciate everything.

[TexanSquirrel]

You're welcome. I hope that and the marking does the trick. I would think that just warm water in the water gun would be best. Let us know how it works out!

[JLM27]

PT, I am so sorry that you have to go through this. I think a large dog or two would settle their hash, at least for your neighborhood, so that you wouldn't have to watch this. I know someone that "borrowed" two large German Shepherds from a friend because she had coyote problems. One had decided to den just on the other side of her hedge. The dogs persuaded it to leave immediately and permanently. A big (free running) dog can trump both a coyote and a fox.

Also, if you are going to mark your territory, have your husband do it because they respond more to male hormones in the urine.

How big are these animals? Like a collie dog or like a beagle? Foxes are small, more beagle size. You may have coyotes, which are reddish too. If it is a fox, you can get a havaheart trap and trap them (on the QT) and relocate them, but like was said, you need to be careful you don't orphan any little ones.

What are the squirrels in your area doing? Mine always have one assigned to cat patrol and they holler their heads off if they see one.

I sympathize with you, because I worry SO much about my little friends in the back yard. Unless the fox is rabid, it will not attack you. A coyote can be a different story, however. They can and do attack humans. Take care.

[Sarabi]

OK this will be a long post. I spoke with our Nuissance Bio as soon as I saw this. She has a homemade pepper recipe she uses for just about anything, which I will post. She Reccommended spraying with hose or Firecrackers. Even better if you have an irrigation system(Sprinklers) you can buy Motion detected sprinklers( LOWES or Home Depot sells these. They are Social animals, and have become Habitialized, Just because of the area they have chosen to live. No food/water sources( Bird feeders and even birdbaths etc....) and clearing any debri is good. Momma fox is teaching her young kits how to hunt right now, which is why it seems they are on a rampage. Not sure where you are, but this is advice a nuissance Bio in FL would/might give. Here is the recipe, and she reccomends spraying around the perimeter of your property, and reaaply as needed. Good Luck:grouphug
1 chopped yellow onion
1 chopped jalapeno
1 tbs of cayenne pepper
2 quarts of water
Boil for 20 min
Strain mixture and apply

[Bravo]

That mixture sounds strong! Might even work for cats and dogs too. That in combination with a water gun should get the idea across. A spray attachment on a hose would probably work even better, but means being outside and waiting.

I hope this works. Nature doesn't have to happen right on your doorstep.

[Sarabi]

It is strong, and wont "Hurt":Love_Icon Them.

[Pointy Tale]

Hi All—I have taken a quick break from outside. Neighbor is mowing his lawn—yeah!

When I’m not online, I am outside or researching help here through government channels.

Here are some pictures. Please keep in mind, I am always nervous when I see them, so my hands are unfortunately shaky. I edited the photos as not to see the neighborhood the best I could, I may choose to delete later, if that’s even possible, I don’t know.

As you can see there is the fox:
1) Peaking its head out from behind someone’s Christmas Tree.
2) Fox just sitting there looking at me, like it normally does. Sometimes they bark.

JLM27—We do not own big dogs at this time and to grow them would take too long, plus I would worry about putting their lives are risk, what do you think? No one is on patrol other than me and husband.

Marking Question—So you can not mix my fluid and my husband’s fluid to dispense? Is that correct? Ok, if that is true, will use his at main problem area, but have noticed it does not keep the little ones away so not sure if it will keep the foxes away, but still we try. I will use my marking fluid on other areas of the property, less frequented, so it’s marked, like on the other side.

Sarabi—Thank You, Thank You for the research. Going to store later to get yellow onion/jalapeno. I will make a try recipe. What effect if any will it have on the little ones?

Bravo—I’ve been outside, scared as I am, I feel that if I don’t make attempts to keep it away, it will take refuge here, and that is the last thing I want.

I worry it will attack me, I seriously do. Sometimes, when I am walking the property I try to stay in the open, so people can see me if I get attacked.

[TexanSquirrel]

Awww - if the pictures were in focus you'd have some beautiful nature shots! Come on, isn't he just the littlest bit cute? I think they're gorgeous.

As for mixing the stuff, I wouldn't think it would matter but sounds like you've got a pretty good idea going.

I've got a big dog you can have. I don't know if he'll go after a fox because he hasn't caused any trouble with other dogs. I'm even willing to drive several hours to get him to you. Let me know if you want more info on him.

I'm sorry you're so scared of them. What would you do if one did come after you? Maybe just having a plan of action would make you feel better.

[Pointy Tale]

I am debating as to whether or not I should post new "candid" photos of the fox(es)...

I am worn and beaten down.

This is a long story short because I can't recite it again. There were at least two killings, mid-morning, today that I saw in the open, which was shortly after two small children passed by.

It was eating one in the open in front of me as I watched from across the street. That can't be normal, can it?

Forgive me for not helping the little ones, I am scared.

It is missing fur from its hindquarters. Is that anything to be concerned about?

How much more am I supposed to see? No one should see that, but I have.

I have more questions about marking. My husband is not producing enough marking fluid to cover the entire property perimeter at one time. After we mark specific areas how long before we mark that same location again? Do you need to cover the same area more than once per day? Should we make a “virtual” line around the perimeter with it? Please be as specific as possible. And small animals are passing these marking areas without a second glance, so does anyone really know if this will work?

I want to write more, but I just can’t I am so sick about this.

[muffinsquirrel]

I know that this is much easier for me to say than for you to do, but try not to worry too much about the foxes attacking you. It just hardly ever happens. You are much more likely to get hit by a falling meteorite than hurt by a fox. I used to have a bunch of Shetland Sheepdogs, and the foxes would come up and talk to them through the fence in my back yard. (I was always surprised that none of them ever jumped the fence and gave me a litter of Shetland Sheepfoxes!!)

You say that these foxes have been around the neighborhood for a good while now. If they were rabid, you would already have seen definate signs of it - in fact, they would probably already be dead. They are truly beautiful, intelligent animals, and have better sense than to attact a human. With all the people moving into what used to be the country, it is cutting down on their usual territory, and they are having to adapt to different eating habits - they are not being cruel.....just trying to stay alive and raise their family. They are normally very shy and reclusive, but living in such close quarters, they have become much more accustomed to, and tolerant of, humans. In the wild, their diet is mostly mice and rabbits.

I have heard that the urine works, and also that human hair will keep them away. (Try one of the beauty shops for their left over hair.) I have no idea whether or not it would work. I think that I have also heard that you can buy bear scent, and other large predators. I would think that would work too. The only other thing I can think of right off hand is to fence in your yard, which could prove to be rather expensive.

Call the Wildlife Department, or Fish and Game or whatever you have there, and ask them what you can use to keep them away from your yard. Explain to them that you are deathly afraid of them, and are now scared to even go out in your own back yard. Maybe they can suggest something that will keep them away, without actually killing or trapping them.

I truly hope that you can come up with something that will put an end to this problem - I know that it must be sheer hell going through all of this.

muffinsquirrel

[Pointy Tale]

I’m sorry if anyone does not like what I am about to say, but I am under a huge amount of stress, I am not sleeping, I have chest pains. For the past week or so my property and surrounding area is being terrorized by foxes. If rabies, it can take a while before showing symptoms, or at least that is what google results posted. For those of you who think the fox is cute, let me know what you think after seeing this. It is graphic enough without being too dramatic.

[4skwerlz]

Oh dear, that's def a fox. How sad. I wish every animal could be vegetarian.

Please Pointy Tale, try not to upset yourself.... We can't have you getting sick. Does a friend have a large dog that could come for a visit?

:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug

[Bravo]

PT,

I don't think anyone here has a problem with anything you've said... more likely that everyone keeping up with this thread is more concerned for your wellbeing. You can't prevent Nature from happening- any more than the measures you're taking- but can you do other things to keep your mind from the fox?

[JLM27]

Pointy Tale, if it is going to come to chest pains, you will have to put a fence around your yard and turn your face away from this heartbreak. You may think that this is expensive, but it is far less expensive than a heart attack should you survive it, even if your insurance pays the major medical bills, not to mention a nervous breakdown. You are still in a delicate condition, mourning Point Tale squirrel.

You just can't take this on all by yourself. We are confronting BIG issues of nature and old mortality here. I greatly dislike predators too, which includes hawks and cats in my backyard. The cats have killed all the chipmunks in my neighborhood :(. But I have to cope with the knowledge that God, or nature if you like, created them too, and that they are part of a great intelligent design that keeps the natural world in balance. I think we humans have unbalanced nature because we want to preserve all mortal life to a full and even abnormal life span, and now we don't know what to do about the imbalance or where we go from here. Should we go forward and create somehow the peacable kingdom? Or should we resign ourselves to live in a world in which nature keeps its balance by putting predator and prey in a cycle of life and death that we is repugnant to our treasuring life and love? I will never get to the end of these questions in my lifetime, even if I am lucky to make some progress, much less willl I be able to implement any grand scale interventions should I decide that that is what is indicated.
We can only deal with the world that we have control over, and that is a VERY little patch indeed. Bend your efforts to creating a safe haven, a sanctuary for the birds and small mammals maybe with an effective fence around your yard, and do not look beyond it until you can deal with the greater questions. Try to secretly remove these foxes from your patch and relocate them (but know they will kill to eat wherever you take them). Farmers have tried to keep the foxes out of their barnyards and chicken coops since time immemorial, with partial success as we alll know. I know I am sounding preachy, but you can't keep hurling yourself against this wall; you'll get hurt and we do not want to allow that any more than we would let a little squirrel keep hurling itself against something and getting hurt.:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[Pointy Tale]

The foxes are eating my friends. They are eating someones mother, father, sister, brother, cousin, aunt or uncle. Put your friends face on the photo. I will willingly give up my friends if they would live...as tears come down my face. The foxes are killing for sport, leaving their kill, eating in the open, during the daytime, children are close by when this happens. Should I wait for a fox or the group of them to attack a child or adult. How many of my friends have to die (huge tears). I have to watch, I have to keep the foxes away, I have to, I do not want them to think they have a safe haven here, I can't live with that on my mind. I have already failed one chipmunk. I would willing take the pain or even having a heartattack if it meant that no other little friends would be killed liked this and it would stop and return to normal.

If any one has additional information about the marking the property if would be welcome, as I have no experience. We are only using my husbands now. Do we continue the same area several times a day, how much, how often. This I need an answer with, please, if you know.

[TexanSquirrel]

Have you considered a large dog? You could adopt a full-grown one from a shelter...

[4skwerlz]

My dear, I do feel for you so much. I could tell you stories of my years of watching and loving my wild friends--deer, squirrels, birds, even bears. Stories that would break your heart, as mine has been broken so many times. Lord, the tears I've cried.

I see something like that picture recently posted of a squirrel skull with the tooth grown around and all the way out the eye socket and I ask, "Where is God"? Truly, where is HE??? As JLM so wisely said, these are questions that can never be answered. But my thoughts run like this: That God must be something very different from what we imagine. I mean, most people would have helped that squirrel; God did not. Most people will pull a person from a burning car; God does not. People will work for years to find a cure for childhood cancer; God could write it down on a piece of paper and give us the cure but he does not. So I can only conclude that God is.... us....I mean the love and caring inside us. I also have to think that our view of death is somehow wrong; that since it's such an obvious part of life, then it must be "okay" somehow in a way we can't understand. When we view it as such a tragedy, we must somehow be missing the point.

The foxes probably have cubs. If the parents can't hunt, their cubs will starve. And I hate that! My one comfort is that God and Mother Nature (that b@tch, whom I love nonetheless) does seem to "temper the wind to the newborn lamb" in one respect. People who are near death often seem to feel a peace and acceptance that those of us left behind have a hard time finding. Many badly injured people note that little pain is felt during the crisis; that the body has mechanisms to make it bearable. Animals have these same mechanisms, probably more so, and I always try to believe that as they slip toward death, they feel peace and as little pain as possible, and that they go onto a better world just as we do.

I know this is very cold comfort at times, but as JLM said, a wise person must let go of things he can't control.

Sorry to be so wordy, like I have the answers, which I don't, but you seem to really be in pain, so maybe by knowing others struggle with the same feelings will help you a little bit.
:grouphug

[TexanSquirrel]

Have you thought about carrying pepper spray?

[Pointy Tale]

TexanSquirrel—you have given me comfort and guided me. The water machines you recommended are at my sisters, they arrived a little while ago. I can't wait to use them. I like your short and to the point, point of view. Keeps me inspired and perhaps a brief grin. I need that, I really need it. Pepper spray is next.

My intention is to get through this crisis anyway I can. I will deal with the Mother Nature debate later, I hear you, believe me I hear you. I know I can close the door and turn a blind eye, but I do not feel that is what I am supposed to do, this is happening for a reason that I don’t know yet.

For the record, it is not Mother Nature that I am questioning, but rather that this has happened fast, and during the daytime, the watching me from across the street, the watching me from a distance on my own property, the walking right past the radio with me a few feet away during the day, the eating its prey in front of me to see, the staring at me, the seeing me but still coming back for prey its left, or the leaving the prey for me to find. It is all a bit off—it is somehow too much in a short time that concerns me deeply.

I appreciate your talking with me. Before I asked for any comments including criticism, I change that, please save the criticism for another day, I can make my own arguments, but don’t have the energy do it now.

If you have more detailed advice on marking, it would be great. How often to the same location, will the rain clear it away, is once a day good enough or several times a day. Detailed information on this would be helpful.

[Bravo]

Apparently foxes are a considerable problem in England. I found this site in the UK, http://www.foxolutions.co.uk that may be useful. Granted it's overseas, but at this point it sounds like you're open to all possibilities. There is an online store and info on a wide range of deterrent products. Contacting them about frequency is probably something they could answer accurately.

[Pointy Tale]

Mr. Bravo, that is generous of you. I am looking at the site now. I thank you, sincerely I thank you. All the best to you.

Apparently foxes are a considerable problem in England. I found this site in the UK, http://www.foxolutions.co.uk that may be useful. Granted it's overseas, but at this point it sounds like you're open to all possibilities. There is an online store and info on a wide range of deterrent products. Contacting them about frequency is probably something they could answer accurately.

[TexanSquirrel]

I would think you'd mark like a dog would - a little here, a little there, as often as possible and always trying to mark over where your 'competition' had been.

Glad I could help. I really hope those water guns do the trick.

[Pointy Tale]

This is excellent. So we are doing well, we are hitting the heavily concentrated areas first, repeatedly. We were actually making a line around the perimeter, so we will change that to a little, space a little more and maybe cover more ground. It's raining now, but when it stops we're doing it again. Seriously, appreciate it.

I would think you'd mark like a dog would - a little here, a little there, as often as possible and always trying to mark over where your 'competition' had been.

Glad I could help. I really hope those water guns do the trick.

[TexanSquirrel]

Here's someone who uses human urine...
http://www.rickmaybury.com/O2y/o2y03/152.htm

[tatcat]

:wave123 hey PT, i just got caught up on this thread...wow, what an mess you are having to deal with..as a hairstylist i can say that hair will deter some animals...dont know about foxes though...years ago when i lived in daytona we had a lady that would come twice a week to get hair to put around her garden to keep animals out...good luck!!!

[longshotgamble]

I know from being a hunter, that you can purchase "doe urine"; just an idea maybe they have other urine ..... Check at Hunting Stores.
I am so sorry you are having to witness this; I would also be totally horrified I wish I could give ya a hug

[JLM27]

Try the havaheart traps on the foxes. Just be careful if you catch them. Wear gloves to pick up the cage and put it in your car.
An air pistol can work wonders, too.

[muffinsquirrel]

I am truly sorry if I added to your stress - I never intended that. I hope that you can find a solution to this very quickly, and once again enjoy your yard, and your friends there.

Again, I am sorry.

muffinsquirrel

[TexanSquirrel]

I know from being a hunter, that you can purchase "doe urine"; just an idea maybe they have other urine ..... Check at Hunting Stores.
I am so sorry you are having to witness this; I would also be totally horrified I wish I could give ya a hug

I looked into predator urine and it's really expensive! I guess it would have to be...what do you do? Follow a mountain lion around with a little cup or something? :sanp3

Also, wouldn't you risk bringing those predators into the area? :dono

[squirrelcharmer]

I feel terrible for you. I would hate for these fox to attack a child, let alone the small animals in your yard. It kills me to see anything wrong with my squirrels, we are dealing with squirrel pox, and many die from this virus. My son has an air soft gun that she shots plastic pellets out at cats or hawks around my property to keep them away. I was wondering if you are allowed to shot on your own property. Even if its a BB gun, and you did hit him, I am sure it would not kill him, but give him the message to get lost. I am not a hunter but no means and hates to see anything happen to animals, but killing for sport and out in the open and becoming a threat to humans and children, there is a point where you have to draw the line, and if animal control are not helping call the police and ask if you can shot BB gun or air soft gun at them on your own property. Good Luck, wish you well.

[Pointy Tale]

That was just about the nicest reply post I have ever gotten. I read it my husband and we both started to well up in tears. We both actually felt your hug. Thank you sincerely.


I know from being a hunter, that you can purchase "doe urine"; just an idea maybe they have other urine ..... Check at Hunting Stores.
I am so sorry you are having to witness this; I would also be totally horrified I wish I could give ya a hug

[Pointy Tale]

There is no need to be sorry. Like anything else it will pass, we are trying to get through it now. We appreciate all of the support.


I am truly sorry if I added to your stress - I never intended that. I hope that you can find a solution to this very quickly, and once again enjoy your yard, and your friends there.

Again, I am sorry.

muffinsquirrel

[Pointy Tale]

We just called and you have to apply for it. So, I guess that is next. Thank you for your heartfelt response and idea.


I feel terrible for you. I would hate for these fox to attack a child, let alone the small animals in your yard. It kills me to see anything wrong with my squirrels, we are dealing with squirrel pox, and many die from this virus. My son has an air soft gun that she shots plastic pellets out at cats or hawks around my property to keep them away. I was wondering if you are allowed to shot on your own property. Even if its a BB gun, and you did hit him, I am sure it would not kill him, but give him the message to get lost. I am not a hunter but no means and hates to see anything happen to animals, but killing for sport and out in the open and becoming a threat to humans and children, there is a point where you have to draw the line, and if animal control are not helping call the police and ask if you can shot BB gun or air soft gun at them on your own property. Good Luck, wish you well.

[4skwerlz]

Probably these foxes have a den nearby, and cubs. If that's the case, the "marking" which normally is very effective, might not work as well as they won't abandon their den, or a good hunting territory, when they have cubs.

I believe I would try the air gun or water gun--maybe that would at least keep them out of your immediate yard.

I hope and pray your yard buddies are now on alert, and will be extra careful, so the foxes will need to find another place to hunt. I'm so very sorry for your losses.

:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug

[Pointy Tale]

I agree right now the objective is to keep them out of our immediate yard. Meaning constant outside patrols with brief visits inside.

We failed this morning and one fox crossed the street. We did a long search, and it does not appear to be lingering as of now.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:grouphug

[longshotgamble]

I looked into predator urine and it's really expensive! I guess it would have to be...what do you do? Follow a mountain lion around with a little cup or something? :sanp3

Also, wouldn't you risk bringing those predators into the area? :dono

:D I hate to say it but I believe when an animal is killed (by hunter/poachers) the bladder is drained with for resale purposes. I guess that is why it is so expensive.
I think it would lure others in, but if you used Bengal Tiger urine (an animal not native to the area,just an example) I think the walk would be to much for them; not to mention the swim.

[Sarabi]

Just checking on the situation:) Praying that a sloution is close:grouphug

[tree-queen]

best of luck getting them away.

If you can find one of the dead squirrels, leave it where it is, but fill the indside with something really hot, like pepper. OR tabasco sauce. I think that if you close the body and turn it over (leave it where it is) then the fox might bite into it and decide to not eat it. Maybe do that to all kills and the foxes will at least be deterred from your property, as all of the food left there is ruined.
Sorry you have to go through this. :grouphug

[TexanSquirrel]

Just wanted to see how things are going...

[Pointy Tale]

On Thursday I wanted to write you, but then Chase died and that was more important. Here is what I wanted to tell you.

I want to thank everyone for their continue support and well wishes. I truly need them. I am worn down and beaten.

This morning we failed and one fox that we know of crossed to our side.

This morning there were three foxes across the street, one in particular was showing his teeth and after a while of looking at me, they started to move closer. I’m not sure exactly how to explain how that felt. I actually called my husband as he was on the redial thing of the phone to have him call the police. My husband came back to be with me.

The three foxes detoured to the left into the neighbor’s front yard, closer to the front, two little children, a young blonde girl with a pink suite case on wheels and an even smaller boy. They looked into the neighbor’s yard to where the fox was. I am not sure if they saw him or the other two who were back a bit further.

The foxes were still there even after the children had left.

I realize things cannot go on like this. We have already made changes, but still those changes do not seem to be enough. It has been one week ago today that a fox was in my backyard as I wanted to go to my garden, where he left a dead cardinal and chipmunk barely alive.

We get up very early now my husband and I, and we take turns at patrolling the property until he leaves for work. Then I am on my own, standing guard, I know its coming, it’s always coming I just don’t know from where or when.

Saturday, my husband and I were on patrol early, and we smelled their urine as we walked outside, those nasty foxes where already here. We setup a couple of chairs in the front of the house, when all of a sudden behind us, there is a fox, just walking slowing, behind us, like less than two feet. It is unimaginable. This fox was walking as though he was impaired in someway.

Later, we were still on patrol, wet feet, pants and all, and even though we were covering the backyard, the second fox must have been there the whole time, because there he was leaving the backyard towards the front, prey dropped from its mouth, as he crossed the street. This time it was two baby bunnies, they were so tiny, I have never seen them that little before, I think their eyes were closed.

We have employed all of the deterrents suggested by members and those that are not in place yet are being worked on. We have put up temporary wooden barriers, I am on patrol every day starting very early in the morning for most of the day. I have not filled any bird feeder and am removing them. I have looked into the faces of my friends with tears running down my face and turned them away. My friends are gone. I am making sacrifices.

The sacrifices our of local squirrel community is great, along with one domestic that I am aware of, as well as the chipmunk, bird, and bunny population have also been hit hard.

Someone on this thread said something like it sounded like these were pets of someone’s—you were on to something there.
I cannot imagine why on earth someone would provide safe haven to potential rabies carrying animals with small children in your house, no less? Oh, and by the way, although they say the foxes are skittish their children have not been outside to play lately…hmmm I wonder why.

After Chase died on Thursday everything has changed for me. Things are out of my control, no matter how long I stand my ground, the foxes still come, they still kill, they still leave their kill on my property, they still urinate and defecate, they probably will still show their teeth and growl and perhaps they will even try to come closer to me. I will continue to stand my ground, for whatever good it will do. I believe that if I let them take rufuge on my property, there will be no stopping them

I am respectfully requesting that if you have the time, please pray that people who can help me will help. Please pray that they will do what is necessary before a human being gets hurts. I used to say that I can take the pain, and in most cases I can and would, but in this case, I’m not sure I could take it. My husband is now feeling under the weather, this is what no sleep, and not eating right will do. My prayers are first and foremost for my husband to be well, then for everything else.

[4skwerlz]

I'm so sorry this is still going on. It must be like a waking nightmare. Have you tried chasing the foxes while yelling and throwing things at them? Foxes are normally shy, but they are also smart. They seem to have figured out that you won't or can't hurt them. Maybe you could change that.... Just trying to think of anything.

Hugs and prayers coming your way.:grouphug

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

E.............of course...Prayers.. for this situation to be resolved...SOON..
What about your husband..*(peeing all over your property)*
And you could also do this....( inside..in your restroom in a bucket) so you can then with a cup...pour it all around your property...:thumbsup
This is what we do..to keep the animals...ALL animals off our property....

Oh...an this is...just another idea........
How about adopting a dog...from a shelter.....:thinking :dono
Or borrowing a friends...DOG..for a while....this..WILL...DEF..... keep those Foxes away....:thumbsup

I agree...with Leigh....the family of Foxes have a DEN...some where close by..and they are raising their family..
I don't think they are meaning to upset you..or disrupt your life...:peace :Love_Icon
They are just using what ever food resourses...they can find....to raise their cub's...and UNFORTUATELY...is at the expense of your beloved outside family/member/squirrel's.... :Cry :grouphug :grouphug
I do..feel your pain..and I am deeply sorry for the loss of Chase:grouphug RIP....little one..:grouphug
Prayers of comfort to you and your husband...:grouphug
Feel...better....soon....:grouphug :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :grouphug
Rachel & Bean:grouphug :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :grouphug

[TexanSquirrel]

You're really having a rough time from all this. I hope you get it sorted soon!

[mudmaiden]

How about a paint gun or water pistol??...maybe that would scare them if each time they entered your propery you shot them...although iIlove all animals and would hate to hurt any, if they are killing your squirrels and bunnies it has to stop..I am so sorry for your troubles pointy!!

[JLM27]

PT, I have some fox urine for you. Please tell me where to send it. It is in crystalline form in a plastic jar.

I think you should find the den, trap all the foxes (on the QT) and relocate them about 15 miles away. Who's going to tell on you? The creatures are a pest and a danger to everyone.

[BigNibbler]

PT, i have been mulling over this thread since its beginning.
Later perhaps i will dwell on it at greater length.
For now, these are my practical thoughts, to help you get the results you need.

Get your IMMEDIATE community involved. And do it right away.
To date, there have been numerous police complaints.
Documented complaints to various other departments.
A wide variety of attempts and approaches, to solve this problem.

The Foxes are living beings, and as all creatures, deserve some sort of respect, and accord. HOWEVER, it has gotten to the point that perhaps they are out of control. Perhaps they need to go ( somewhere, somehow ).
And most importantly, perhaps they have worn out their welcome.

You ( for good or bad ) belong to the most dangerous species on the planet.
Your community should be able, working together, to resolve and solve this situation, hopefully in a good and fair way, by working TOGETHER.

Even if somoONE is harboring these critters. The community as a whole, should sympathize and support YOU.

If this was my situation, i would try to organize a local meeting, OR bring this situation up at an already established community meeting of some sort.
If no such group or org exists, try to get two or three persons, who either could worry that in the future it may affect them, or are sympathetic and have time to get involved and feel useful. I do not know exactly what the actual physical solution can and should be? But i know that when you have concerned and coordinated humans, no animal of any size can successfully be defiant for long! My suggestion, is to find a person who cares, is passionate, and articulate, and if at all possible, not either you or your husband, to sell the urgency, and significance of this problem to the community. I think that then, the group should be able to find a solution. Hopefully it will be one that shows some compassion, not to just one species, but to all.

Again, i am not advocating any specific hostility or any violence towards an animal that simply to some may not be as cute, and playful and captivating as other animals. Nor do i suggest that their dietary requirements alone make them unwanted creatures Most animals do prey on others.

But this is your home, your land, your community, and as a group, you should meet, discuss, COMFORT EACH OTHER, and come to some kind of game plan. Doing this, would mean psychological comfort to many. Doing this would mean greater financial and physical resources to bring to bear. Doing this will greatly increase the likelihood of getting some governmental involvement.

Just as you have gotten some comfort and much advice from this virtual community, imagine how much greater comfort you should get from those near you, who should eventually see and feel your pain, and join together in finding a solution that might make everyone feel better, or feel that they have helped do something. After all, it may be only time before someone gets hurt, and then eventually only time before a fox gets hurt as well. So really, it is time to make this a community issue! Reach out not just to them as fellow humans, neighbors, etc, but as pet owners, who may be concerned over the possible danger to their loved ones.

I think it is time for the two of you to leave the house, and reach out to your neighbors, and get them to reach out to others. You are not really getting the great results or accomplishing much by becoming a slave to your situation. Time to go the other way. For a few weeks, spend less time home and more time in the community. Sorry for a long response, i was actually trying to keep it short.
Hope this is of some help.
You are obviously a warm, sensitive and caring person, and i know can move and touch others to help gain their support.
Take a deep slow breath and look forward to a new day tomorrow
Wishing you lasting comfort on this... MN

[toni92097]

Is there no way you can have a large dog on your property?
You said the fox was moving oddly. If rabies, would have been dead by now, if distemper, well...that is my biggest concern. But I would think distemper would kill quickly too. I wish me and my vet could help you. If I were rich, I would say we get them tested for everything possible and ship them HERE. Our foxes and coyotes are suffering and the grey squirrels and rabbits are running rampant to the point the are destroying everything!!!
Do you have any fox rehabbers near you? If so the foxes may be rabies vax'd already.

Although some disagree, prey drive is usually different from attack drive. They would attack a human that is threatening them, maybe, but not pounce kill and eat small humans!!
I would be def. looking into trapping and moving and shutting up. No one has to know, although moving an odd acting fox population could spread unknown disease to a healthy population. Hard to say if they would be better off at a sanctuary or euthanized even than risk a healthy, normally behaved population elsewhere.

Did you say you are in Texas? I don't think I know anyone there who can help...will look into it.

[JLM27]

Pointy Tale, last call. I have some crystallized fox urine for you. Please let me know one way or the other so that I can either send it to you or take it back to the garden center. I feel very anguished for you and I am just trying to help.

[TexanSquirrel]

Just wondering how things are going today....

[toni92097]

"I have some crystallized fox urine for you."

I suspect this is not a common statement amongst friends.:rotfl

[NewMommy]

Oh PT, I'm just reading this thread and feelings all your pain and sorrow of what you are going through. I don't know who Chase was but am sorry for the loss of him and I do pray for you and for your husband to remain strong and healthy and hope some how someone can help you!!! God Bless you for caring so much and so deeply.

[Pointy Tale]

When you ask me about an update, I am grateful, but not really sure what to say as tomorrow will be two weeks that we have been dealing with this. I’ll try to be brief. I print posts to read outside, when I come in, everything has changed and no longer apply.

Water Machine works good—thanks TS. TS/Bravo—you have a calming, rather rational way when it comes to these problem solving—appreciated. All offers of prayers, positive energy are deeply appreciated. Bravo “Nature doesn't have to happen right on your doorstep”—You nailed it! We have a neighbor who admitted the foxes are on his property, took over an old gopher den, these are his “friends”. Neighbor did something over weekend, foxes have moved now closer to my property. Neighbor came rushing to my husband yesterday to now say, no he looked they are not on his property. We have State approval to trap. We have trapper. We have two neighbors who will let us trap since the den is on their property. Unfortunately now there is an insurance liability issue, the trapper doesn’t want to be responsible if someone gets hurt, nor do the property owners. We decided to quickly call around to get the hold—harmless insurance to protect the property owner and trapper, however, the insurance companies are saying it is too high of a risk for them to insure. So yet again, I failed.

Three foxes were out yesterday at 1:00 in the afternoon—yes they had a squirrel in their mouth. I wonder who I lost yesterday and who I will lose today. Talked to neighbors, think they are “cute”, just see them occasionally—this is my problem until some person gets bit. We continue to mark the property. Got estimate for a fence and it’s a small fortune, can’t be done for 4 weeks anyway—not an option. We looked into getting a dog, fostering a dog, etc. It is a serious consideration, but still I wonder if it is fair to the dog—they want to be loved, not used.

Many times we do deter them from our property, but they just go around us, literally. I’ve taken many photos, trying to get that money shot for you TS…yes, that is humor, thank goodness, right. It may change from humor to sadness quickly. If I didn’t respond to anyone’s post in particular, it is not because I have not read it, but merely do not know how to answer. We have a garden center that will sell the fox urine I have enough of it naturally on my property that I’m not interested in putting more down. Deep apology for not replying sooner. I am doing the best I can, truly.

It goes without saying, despite my best efforts of deterring they still get on our property, urinate, defecate, growl, eat prey in front of me, groom in front of me, stalk and bark at me, and leave dead or dying prey—did I tell you about the two rabbits? My husband is not feeling well. I am…no matter. My husband’s health is more important to me now. How do I protect the squirrels that are left, can I, should I? Many have either been killed—I have seen it and still many others are missing? I’m not sure if I should stay in the house, close the blinds and not look, I’m not sure I can do that, my friends, my squirrel friends are being hunted in broad daylight, killed and in most cases left behind. I have hope. I know the Lord God has not abandoned me or the ones he has allowed me to befriend, but right now I am too close to the situation to see beyond this minute.

[JLM27]

You yourself can trap on your neighbors' property with a large havaheart trap. I guess since you are not replying to me, I will just take the fox urine back where I got it. I gather you do not want to respond, probably because you didn't like something I said.

[Pointy Tale]

You yourself can trap on your neighbors' property with a large havaheart trap. I guess since you are not replying to me, I will just take the fox urine back where I got it. I gather you do not want to respond, probably because you didn't like something I said.

Seriously, I am not ignoring you. I am barely making by at this time, sometimes I just come to TSB to have peace, to see someone else friends, for a moment of joy, I am so deeply upset. I wonder when the foxes will change and actually attack me, versus just walking in my direction calmly. I am a big girl, I assure you if you said sometime to upset me I would have already responded, honestly, that's who I am. I don't ever want to be ungrateful, sincerely. So please accept my apology for not replying sooner. I greatly appreciate your offer for the fox urine, unfortunately, it seems bad enough from the real thing, I don't want to add more. Husband said our garden ctr has it too. I am in all honestly very upset and sincerly grateful that you looked into this for me and already got it ready to mail. I am sorry for not replying sooner. Trap, must be done legally, I cannot at this time explain more, I wish it were that simple. Neighbor has issues with liability, I can't go there to do it. So, can forgive me for not replying sooner or personally?

[TexanSquirrel]

Well hmm...Closer than you were at first but not really. Not sure what to tell you, other than we're thinking of you. If I think of something else, I'll let you know. :grouphug

[JLM27]

Aww, you're sweet. I will just take it back to the garden center. NP. Sorry I got twitchy.

And I am also sorry you are so troubled with this problem. I sympathize because I am getting ready to (illegally) declaw the cats in my back yard. I figure if you can get them neutered you can get them declawed. I saw one murdering a chipmunk just this weekend and now my little buddy with three legs is in danger, not to mention that Fatty Mama lost one of her five babies somewhere along the way and the other four are running around on the ground all the time now. The neighbors have three fully grown cats that they let roam wherever they please, as though they were feral cats, and they even hunt together sometimes.

Can't you get the trapper to set traps on your property, now that you have the license?

[Bravo]

You're not alone, PT. I came across a writeup from another frustrated homeowner (http://colorado-preppers.blogspot.com/2009/04/foxes-in-henhouse-or-garden.html) in April of this year. After doing pretty much everything in the book, they got a couple of dogs, and the foxes haven't been back since.

Meantime, we're here for you.

[tatcat]

:grouphug pt, i wish i could be there with you to help...i feel so bad for you for this...you and all your buddies are in my prayers!! :grouphug

[Pointy Tale]

TS—Yes, closer, but not really. Kind of wish I lived in TX about now.

JLM27—Again I apologize, I certainly appreciate everyone’s kindness and you’re above and beyond by picking up the product for me. Yes, it may come down to having the professional trapper, trap on our property. I have been deeply concerned for our furry friends and did not want to put them in harms way or worse yet, have them get caught in the traps. The trapper said it would be safer and wiser to trap at their den, which is not on our property. Silly liability issue is all that stands in our way.

Bravo—I needed this. You have eased my soul, I am not alone. I read it and it appears the foxes are making a comeback. It seems that it is difficult for any person to deter them. Especially when they have sympathetic people in the neighborhood who believe and I quote “they take care of the critter problem”. I have moments when I think we’ve made progress, and other times when it should be safe and it is not. Everyone at TSB being here for me is more than I could hope for. I suppose if TSB members can’t empathize with the loss of the neighbor squirrely population that certainly no one else would. I suppose I will address the dog issue with my husband again, he is ready it is just me holding off on that one. There are things I would like to share, but think it not wise at this time.

Tatcat—Thank you, I wish you could be here too. But being here virtually is all that I can ask for, your prayers are above and beyond and genuinely appreciated.

[JLM27]

I would just go ahead and trap on your property asap while you have permission. If you trap your friends by accident, then you will just have to release them with an apology. It is for their own good that you remove the foxes. Plus, I'm thinking that the bait for a fox is not the same as that for a squirrel, groundhog, bird, or chipmunk, right? So you should only get possums, raccoons, and foxes.
Friends of mine were trying to get a groundhog to relocate when they accidentally trapped a raccoon, so we just let him go. I think he did have some hard words for me when I released him, but because I don't really understand raccoon speak, and he was not harmed in any way, I just dismissed it.

[JLM27]

Regarding the dog: using him or her is also giving a nice pooch a home. Lots of people are turning in their family pets because of the recession. You would be rescuing the dog and then asking him to help rescue you. The dog might cheer up hubby too, knowing he has a fast and effective ally.

Meanwhile, scratch what I said about declawing. I read an article on it and now I see that it is actually inhumane. Now I don't know what to do. There is a law against letting dogs run loose in my town, but not against letting cats run loose. My yard is just a handkerchief (12 x 12), the rest being a big parking lot, and besides, I'm allergic to dogs and cats, so I can't get one to chase the cats away.

I guess I'm back to trapping them and taking them to the humane society. We have some no-kill shelters up here. But for me, even finding a good place to put the trap is a problem.

[Pointy Tale]

Meanwhile, scratch what I said about declawing. I read an article on it and now I see that it is actually inhumane. Now I don't know what to do. There is a law against letting dogs run loose in my town, but not against letting cats run loose. My yard is just a handkerchief (12 x 12), the rest being a big parking lot, and besides, I'm allergic to dogs and cats, so I can't get one to chase the cats away.

I guess I'm back to trapping them and taking them to the humane society. We have some no-kill shelters up here. But for me, even finding a good place to put the trap is a problem.
Trap before it's too late and be quiet about it, just do it.

[TexanSquirrel]

If you do decided to get a dog, I've got one in desperate need of a home. She's just a pup right now, but she should grow up to be a pretty good size.

[Pointy Tale]

TS—You have peeked my husband’s interest about a dog a bit further. He is more than stunned (joyfully) about your offer to people whom you’ve never met.
I could hear a little excitement with his questions, some of which are, how would we get the pup from TX to xx, I think it’s like a 2.5 day journey by car or something like that? If we decided to get a dog, my husband really wanted a German Shepherd, is that mean to say that out loud? And, you do know that we unfortunately, would try to use the dog for the fox issue. I know that is mean to say out load and I am sorry for that. Again, I’m not sure I want to use a dog that way, but the offer is warmly welcomed.
OK, my husband is not feeling well again, so I may sign off for a bit. Looking forward to reading about the pup later. All the best, E

[TexanSquirrel]

Ohhh! A German Shepherd! I love those dogs. This pup - we're not sure what she is but she's no German Shepherd. I'll PM you so this can stay your fox thread. :thumbsup

[toni92097]

Um, as much as I hate to say it...hair prolly WON"T help. Our foxes are used to us- what few we have left in my rapidly declining wilderness-and they aren't fazed by anything we touch.
If money is not short, I say fence the yard and get a large shelter dog NOW. You will save many lives that way.

Your foxes are beautiful, but fairly thin. I think they are saving their kills for later, or they have underlying health issues. You got NICE shots, not pretty like that, but I hope you know what I mean?? Nat Geo stuff there, I hate kill-shots but you did well. Pat yourself on the back now!

And keep in mind...everything kills SOMETHING. I have witnessed racoons killing and hefting the bodies of grown males Greys...I HATED my coons (and deep down resent them) until the day I had to rescue two babies stuck in my tree hollow, remains of mom and sib at my feet. I technically am rabies vax'd so could do coons/foxes/skunks etc. BUT I know the feelings I harbor and cared for them for the 2 days it took for them to get to a VERY experienced rehabber.
Later I actually saw greys stealing and killing blue-jay young, don't know if they ate them or not. I know jays have killed young squirrels too.
Sometimes I live in a veritable war-zone but I look around...my property is one of only TWO five acre tracts for a few MILES that has enough tree cover to sustain anything. Everything has been cleared or logged. We have feral cats killing for sport everywhere, but I can't bring myself to kill cats, even though neighbors sometimes do.
Compound that by my guilt that our threatened woodpeckers are seemingly only living at MY house and general vicinity. If anything got them...
Dogs are killing machines around here, high prey drives. I have to keep my dog out at night to keep the coons/opossums/foxes away from my house. I am blessed with a dog that was "raised" feral by armadillos and caught by Animal Control. This unusual dog was starving to death eating grubs and bugs only and rooting in the dirt. He does not kill bunnies or tortoises, he is amazing. BUT he chses off aggressive dogs and any animal that acts "off" only letting up ones that need help. He cried until I found the baby coons and even stimulated them to poo (LOL) but chased away an odd acting one that tried to get in my car! He hightailed it after a huge fox w/bunny (or rat) in its mouth and scared the crap outta that fox!! This dog was going to be euthanized for hip dysplasia...he is a healthy happy boy now.

Please, I wish you could rescue a nice big doggie in dire need of a home. Look to the kill shelters and get one off death row. I would honestly not look to hounds or hound mixes, sadly, as these I have had rotten luck killing EVERYTHING not just deterring nuisance animals. But a lab mix etc....it's the best way to go. I cannot TELL you how much safer you will feel with a guard dog, a live loyal animal looking out for you and totally in love with you...

I wish you the very best of luck, and crossing fingers saying prayers to your little Rainbow Bridge fellows.

[Pointy Tale]

Ohhh! A German Shepherd! I love those dogs. This pup - we're not sure what she is but she's no German Shepherd. I'll PM you so this can stay your fox thread. :thumbsup

TS—Yes, my husband was interested in a German Shepard because he had them growing up—pure breed too. I will respond to PM now too, but just wanted to say that if we chose to get a dog, I along with the dog would need to get training because as luck would have it, I’ve never had a pet and IMO, I think it is important for both owner and dog to be trained.

[Pointy Tale]

Um, as much as I hate to say it...hair prolly WON"T help. Our foxes are used to us- what few we have left in my rapidly declining wilderness-and they aren't fazed by anything we touch.
If money is not short, I say fence the yard and get a large shelter dog NOW. You will save many lives that way.

Your foxes are beautiful, but fairly thin. I think they are saving their kills for later, or they have underlying health issues. You got NICE shots, not pretty like that, but I hope you know what I mean?? Nat Geo stuff there, I hate kill-shots but you did well. Pat yourself on the back now!

And keep in mind...everything kills SOMETHING. I have witnessed racoons killing and hefting the bodies of grown males Greys...I HATED my coons (and deep down resent them) until the day I had to rescue two babies stuck in my tree hollow, remains of mom and sib at my feet. I technically am rabies vax'd so could do coons/foxes/skunks etc. BUT I know the feelings I harbor and cared for them for the 2 days it took for them to get to a VERY experienced rehabber.
Later I actually saw greys stealing and killing blue-jay young, don't know if they ate them or not. I know jays have killed young squirrels too.
Sometimes I live in a veritable war-zone but I look around...my property is one of only TWO five acre tracts for a few MILES that has enough tree cover to sustain anything. Everything has been cleared or logged. We have feral cats killing for sport everywhere, but I can't bring myself to kill cats, even though neighbors sometimes do.
Compound that by my guilt that our threatened woodpeckers are seemingly only living at MY house and general vicinity. If anything got them...
Dogs are killing machines around here, high prey drives. I have to keep my dog out at night to keep the coons/opossums/foxes away from my house. I am blessed with a dog that was "raised" feral by armadillos and caught by Animal Control. This unusual dog was starving to death eating grubs and bugs only and rooting in the dirt. He does not kill bunnies or tortoises, he is amazing. BUT he chses off aggressive dogs and any animal that acts "off" only letting up ones that need help. He cried until I found the baby coons and even stimulated them to poo (LOL) but chased away an odd acting one that tried to get in my car! He hightailed it after a huge fox w/bunny (or rat) in its mouth and scared the crap outta that fox!! This dog was going to be euthanized for hip dysplasia...he is a healthy happy boy now.

Please, I wish you could rescue a nice big doggie in dire need of a home. Look to the kill shelters and get one off death row. I would honestly not look to hounds or hound mixes, sadly, as these I have had rotten luck killing EVERYTHING not just deterring nuisance animals. But a lab mix etc....it's the best way to go. I cannot TELL you how much safer you will feel with a guard dog, a live loyal animal looking out for you and totally in love with you...

I wish you the very best of luck, and crossing fingers saying prayers to your little Rainbow Bridge fellows.

toni92097—thank you for sharing your heartwarming story with me. I’m sorry that you live veritable war-zone at times. I guess if cats where the issue, I would befriend them quickly and trap them without telling anyone. Originally I may have told you to find out about town ordinances and have the households fined, but that really doesn’t solve the problem. It sounds like you have a wonderful dog, congratulations to you both. He sounds like a one—of—a—kind, truly a gem.

I do have other photographs of the foxes, just not enough time to upload, etc.

Yes, the foxes are use to us—I could debate the subject until I am blue in the face, making arguments for both sides—which I will not, because there is no right or wrong decision—IMO, the only decision is put the Health and Human Welfare above the foxes rights. Today marks two weeks from when I first spotted odd behavior in my backyard next my garden, where a fox was not afraid of me, left two preys—one dead and one dying. I was not able to save the dying one—I have to live with that, and it is very hard for me.
A fence, unless we want to pay a small fortune (like the cost of a car or even someone’s yearly salary) and wait about 4 weeks or whatever, it is not an option.

If it were not for the fox situation, we, my husband and I would never even consider getting a pet, we just were not.

Now, my husband and I have had conversations about getting a dog. He is ready for it, but I am not sure that I am to the point where I would personally feel comfortable in rescuing or getting a dog for the sole purpose of defending the land against foxes. What would I do if that dog got hurt, but it to sleep? How is that fair to the dog? These are just rhetorical questions of course. If we were to have a pet, I do not personally believe in caging the animal, but rather allowing it to have free roam of the house with me. I also do not think I would want my pet, if I chose to get one to run free outside alone, that’s just not who I am. IMO, getting a pet should be something that is well thought—out. I have never had a pet, and so I would personally want training on how to train and handle the dog as well as get training for the dog. By the time all of that happens—that would take weeks, weeks away from me making attempts to deter the foxes from crossing to my property.

I appreciate your insight into my situation and grateful for your support. Your prayers for the lost lives is most welcomed and valued. They were so beautiful and their time here was too short, thank you for acknowledging them.

[Pointy Tale]

Will I be cutting my nose off to spite my face by getting a dog to scare off the foxes, but will it in turn scare off the chipmunks and squirrels?

All comments welcomed, but if you have experience, it would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately the fox problem is still not under control. We had moments of peace, but they are short lived. We are currently seriously considering a GSD. We found a 1½—2 year GSD, pure blood that was a rescue, which we have submitted information for.

[Pointy Tale]

:poke WOW, one simple post and all day no one responded. :) I think this is a first. I did not mean to stump everyone I only wanted a few opinions. :poke


Will I be cutting my nose off to spite my face by getting a dog to scare off the foxes, but will it in turn scare off the chipmunks and squirrels?

All comments welcomed, but if you have experience, it would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately the fox problem is still not under control. We had moments of peace, but they are short lived. We are currently seriously considering a GSD. We found a 1½—2 year GSD, pure blood that was a rescue, which we have submitted information for.

[tatcat]

when will you know if you are getting the dog??

[TexanSquirrel]

Wow. I read that as "I will be cutting my nose off" and got rather worried. :sanp3 Glad to see I was wrong though!

[JFerret]

We've got July 4 coming up. I sure hope you're having a cook out with lots of people who will be bringing fireworks!! Maybe, someone will leave some firecrackers behind.

[Bravo]

No one should have to go through what you have, PT. However, until there is motivation for the foxes to move on, there is probably little that you haven't considered. I haven't come across anything beyond what's been posted.

In my opinion, the two main deterrents- being a dog or a fence- also happen to be the most thought provoking and expensive, and unfortunately the decision is quite straightforward at this point. How far must one go to deal with this?

If it were me, I'd probably go with the dog. It's almost guaranteed that a dog will disturb and discourage foxes from roaming in your immediate vicinity, and there's always the chance that you'll develop an affection for it. That would be a happy ending.

I don't know if there are better breeds than others for co-existing with other species, but I think it's possible.

[Pointy Tale]

when will you know if you are getting the dog??
Tatcat—
We have reached out to several available rescue German Shepherd dogs, so we are seriously considering it.

It will be three weeks this Thursday since the family of foxes that my neighbor is harboring have been killing our outside furry friends. I know they are doing this because I see it.

Despite my best efforts, and following many, if not all of the suggestions here, including trying the legal route, which I can legally do, but no one wants to provide the insurance because the liability is too great, so once again we come up empty handed.

At this point, I can admit, I need help with fox patrol. If I lived in Texas, I would just ring up Tex and ask him to pop over. Each day, we lose a furry friend, I have seen it. I cannot stop it. I cannot even explain to you what it is like, there are no words.

My personal hesitation is that I wonder what impact our having a dog will have on our little furry outside friends.

[Pointy Tale]

Bravo—thank you, yes I have read the previous information you provided me—all not very encouraging about getting foxes to move on or deterring them.

We even received an estimate for a fence—needless to say, my jaw dropped as I could buy a car for the price of a fence. And, the darn fox somehow can get through my neighbors picket (is that what you call it) fence in the front yard. I took a photo, I should post it, so that already deterred me, and OK it was the price that was the deciding factor.

Yes, my husband seems a little intrigued about the prospect of a dog in his life again. We have even found a few pure breed German Shepherds and contacted the rescue places about them, but we, no I seriously wonder what impact a dog will have on the outside squirrels. I have seen so many of them killed by foxes, it is…well—never mind.

[TexanSquirrel]

Doesn't look like a fence would have done much good anyway...Found these and a couple others on Google...

[mudmaiden]

Pointy...I can tell you from experience that when we had a dog we had very few squirrels in the yard...they would run around the top of the fence...we had a doberman..I am not sure if you will have better luck with a different breed....I hope you find a solution to your problem!!!

[muffinsquirrel]

We have a German Shepherd, but we got her as a puppy - don't know what luck you'd have with a grown one. Emmy, our shepherd, does not bother the squirrels or the rabbits in our yard. In fact, she considers our indoor squirrels her responsibility to protect. The outdoor squirrels have come up on the porch and gotten nose to nose with her, and one of them even patted her paw one time. This surprised us, as they are not to be seen if any other dog is around. Emmy runs off any varmits that bother our animals, including other dogs. When she is indoors, which is most of the time unless one of us is outside working, she lays in front of the door to the squirrel room to 'protect' them. Even when they are loose, roaming the house, she doesn't bother them.

I'll admit, Emmy is very special, and we started teaching her when she was very small, but having a dog and critters in the yard IS possible.

I think the idea of fireworks is a good one - get some of those things that you can throw and they go bang! real loud. At least it should keep them away for a few days. Maybe even longer, depending on how good your aim is. :D

muffinsquirrel

[Pointy Tale]

Awww - if the pictures were in focus you'd have some beautiful nature shots! Come on, isn't he just the littlest bit cute? I think they're gorgeous.

— G R A P H I C —

Tex—Hi! This photo was taken for you. I did my best to keep it in focus, but to be honest I was a bit shaky—ok, nervous, scared out of my pants, whatever expression seems to fit—all true! Nope, he’s not cute, the blurry picture before this (not posted) you could see his teeth/growling.

------
And, yes, he was coming straight for me in this picture!
------

No need to respond this is just a quick update that fox situation is still not resolved, one at minimum—three at worst. It is…gross many times. I continue to be a human deterrent, trying to keep the foxes off our property—it is for now the best I can do. Sad to say, but many of our furry friends have perished—here are two little bunnies that were left behind. If it is to graphic, please do not be mad at me, I only want to show you what I am seeing and why I consider this life threatening.

No response necessary, I just wanted to update this, although if you wanted to pray for my wildlife, it be would most welcomed and very much appreciated.
Thank you all for your continued support it means more than I probably let on.

------
Ooops—I almost did not see people recently responded to me, I am sorry.

Muffinsquirrel—this was a very comforting post to read, that your Emmy is their protector, I am deeply appreciative that you cared enough to write so warmly to me and share with me. You made me smile when you said one of the squirrels patted her paw one time—I can imagine this big strong dog, being sensitive. Yes, if we get a dog, I need training and am researching how and where to do that as I write. I like the fireworks too, but allowed to have them:(

Mudmaiden—thank you for your input, I can actually imagine that happening that the squirrels would be afraid, I have seen them run for cover when a dog is two houses down—I praise that response now!

Tex—the fence—that was, well very true!!!

[Manda_Dolittle]

Will I be cutting my nose off to spite my face by getting a dog to scare off the foxes, but will it in turn scare off the chipmunks and squirrels?

All comments welcomed, but if you have experience, it would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately the fox problem is still not under control. We had moments of peace, but they are short lived. We are currently seriously considering a GSD. We found a 1½—2 year GSD, pure blood that was a rescue, which we have submitted information for.

I've been following your story, and I'm so sorry to hear all the stuff that they are doing. It's nature yes, but it is HORRIBLE to see it.

But I have a Springer and a Papillon. My ESS is a GREAT dog! She used to chase the Squirrels (I live in the city, so we don't have chipmunks.. Well the part of the city I live in you just never see them) But Britt used to chase them when she was a pup but we just kept yelling NO to her and eventually (not long after) she never chased them. Same with Rabbits... What she Will chase and I've cought her with one in her mouth before is Cats. We have a BAD problem with them here, and with a rabbit that stays outside in a hutch And only comes in when it's to hot or to cold. I let her chase them out of the yard, But after I cought her with it in her mouth she got yelled at, she then let it go and the cat climbed up the tree and I didn't see anythign wrong with it. Britt will even chase the black birds and Crows away.. She HATES them because they always dive bomb her.

But my Papillon Taya is a 10 pound dog that thinks she's a 110 pound dog! hahaha She'll chase anything out of the yard but Squirrels, When she sees one she thinks it's cuddles. and start to cry if she's inside. haha But unfortunately she did kill a rabbit, a baby one that had just left the nest, We have a bad problem with them here as well, and Taya likes to eat their poop and that's not healthy for her (she'll get heart-worm from that) but I was just outside one day one the phone having a smoke, and She was in the garden till I started to hear the rabbit scream, I threw my phone on the ground ran in (the whole time I'm yelling at Taya at the top of my lungs) the garden Grabbed the rabbit tried to save it, but couldn't. The rabbit wouldn't have lived long anyway, it was just COVERED in woodticks. poor thing.

But what i'm saying is Getting a dog would be GREAT to keep the foxes away esp a big one. But what you can do is train them to go after just one thing.

Like we did with Britt for the cats. Everytime we saw a cat we said to her "get the kitty cat! wheres the kitty cat!" and she would chase them away.
With Tay we didn't have to do anything..

GSD are great because they are herding dogs, eager to please, and VERY smart! You would have to keep it busy though cause they will get bored faster. So you would have no problem with it chasing the foxes away.

[longshotgamble]

Aw Pointy Tale, I thought the foxes were gone. I have been so tied up in my own life. I feel really bad, because I know how helpless you feel. I think a dog would be a great idea, and I really am all for rescue animal ~ I have one, Cletus the 110 lb Bloodhound. The main thing with Cletus is he has so many bad habits from his other life I have to keep his shock collar on him, fully charged batteries and remote in hand. Simply because I have no idea when he will become too frenzied to stop with voice command. So far, he hasn't bitten anybody but Rick; but he has made short work of several of the yard animals. I always go out with him in the morning, as once a week I have to get him to "Drop that bird Cletus!!!"
He was very curious about Ms Butter and it was impossible to have her outside with Cletus running free. I had to very careful that I keep them away from each other.
I know you will make the right choice and a dog is great company also.

[merman]

Oh, PT, I don't know how did I miss this thread!

Wow, I never know this BOLD foxes were available.
I never saw a fox in Cyprus during daytime!
And never saw a fox getting that close!

Wow, not easy to fight them, guess you will really need a dog to scare them, how else!!?
I am so sorry for the little friends............................. :grouphug

:grouphug :grouphug

[toni92097]

GSD are high prey drive for sure, but a rescue would let you "try her/him out" to see what that individual dog is like. I had to look long and hard for a home for mine as she wanted my cats and squirrels DEAD.

You really can't know until you try, though. I hope *crossing fingers* it works out and you persevere. The "foxes climbing fences" is why I think fencing is not the best option. The fence was meant for your dog! A racoon pulled my grown chicken thru CHICKEN wire, truly horrifying.
I applaud you for thinking of your rescue beforehand! I just assumed you knew about dogs, which is stupid of me...and of course it will need vet care as well. I can offer training advice for many things, if needed.

My lab mix is only outdoors because he prefers it- most days. Being raised "wild" it is what he knows. My other larger dog is a House Dog as are all other critters. The lab comes in during cold or rainy weather, but watches the windows and glass doors for the "wrong" animal.

I keep him bug sprayed, in addition to heartworm prev because I don't want him getting eaten/itchy by the skeeters!

I am glad you weren't offended by my post. I try hard to work out reasonable approaches here in the country, as THEY were here first, but I have to live, also. Doing so in harmony, the best we can, is all we can strive for.

PS Got some more feral cats snipped last week! Yippeee!! Mom got done and kittens will be next...:)
Got to get the populations down in a non-lethal way, for my own peace of mind...:jump

[Pointy Tale]

Manda_Dolittle—thank you for following my story, it is good to have the support of my fellow TSBers. Appreciate your sharing your experiences with me as well.

Longshotgamble—Hi! No, unfortunately the foxes are not gone. My neighbor seems to “like” them. Usually, the day is spent on patrol, and trying to keep the foxes off the property and deter them to other people properties, hoping to get them to notice enough to want to do something.

Vas—Yes, it is a bit odd that the foxes are out during the daytime and that they will stand still long enough to have their photos taken (just a little humor—which will be gone first thing tomorrow morning). Yes, they have gotten particularly close at times, one time directly behind us about—2 feet maybe as we were sitting in chairs one was behind us. I appreciate all support and thank you for popping in. Thank you for my little friends.

toni92097—Wow, thank you for offer of training advice. Appreciate your popping back in and posting. Congratulations on your “fixing” your feral cats—good luck with kittens!

For anyone else who wanted to chime in on our getting a dog, I started a new thread under off topic posts “Dogs—Wild Squirrels Coexisting? (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17814)” If your time permits, feel free to chime in there as well.

Thank you all for your continued support, popping in and chiming in!

[TinyPaws]

That's horrible what you are going through...The pictures of the fence..is that a 6 foot fence..It looked lower..They also make 8 foot fences..

My dog Bianca and my squirrels get along..They walk right past her..They know they are safe and she is not a threat...Bianca will however chase cats and racoons out of the yard..But with an older dog, it will take alot of work and commitment to keep up with every day...

I will keep your animals in my prayers...

[Pointy Tale]

TinyPaws—thank you, I appreciate your reading my post and commenting and for the booster about Bianca and your squirrels getting along. I very much appreciate your keeping our little furry friends in your prayers, truly it means the world to me. I missed Mass this morning—honoring my Uncle who recently died because yet again the foxes were out two of them—two different times so far this morning and additional lives have perished. I tried to do something, but it was not enough, I am so sorry. All the best to you TP.

[Novelist]

If it makes you feel any better, it's not possible for a fox to kill a human unless the human is laying on the ground and LETTING the fox kill them. Could a fox kill an infant or toddler? Sure, but I doubt a parent is going to sit there and watch while their infant/toddler plays around with a fox. I know a family with foxes in the backyard that sometimes hang out in the sandbox with their four-year-old boys and just watch them, running off when the boys get too close, because they just like to lay in the sand. You honestly don't have anything to worry about at all as far as human safety is concerned. They cannot kill you, it's just not possible.

[Pointy Tale]

Novelist—Hmm—I appreciate your reading and commenting on my thread. IMO, I believe it is irresponsible for a parent to allow their two four—year boys to be in the same sandbox at the same time as a family of foxes and in the same sandbox—period. IMO that is an accident waiting to happen. I cannot comment as to whether or not the family of foxes can or cannot kill a human, I will not rule out the possibility that it could happen and do not wish to personally find out for myself—it is a risk I am personally not willing to take. Foxes are known rabies carriers—they can actually carry the rabies virus for up to two years before showing systems, depending on their situation—while still transmitting the disease. Additionally, they probably carry a host of parasites that are disgusting and very likely transferrable to humans. I worry for a variety of reasons. An additional recent comment about the foxes—there has been sightings of a raccoon in the area who is acting sickly—and out during the daytime. Again, thank you for your reading, expressing your opinion and mostly for posting.

[BigNibbler]

Novelist—Hmm—I appreciate your reading and commenting on my thread. ......... Again, thank you for your reading, expressing your opinion and mostly for posting.


Dear PT, it has been a long while, but finally, i figure it reasonable to ask; Having followed this thread from the beginning, and being the one who actually rated this thread (FIVE STARS!) for its humanistic quality... is there a reason, that of all the responders, it seems like I am the one who you did not feel was worthy of a response from you. I certainly understand that you have far more urgent issues than to respond to every poster who's suggestion you feel is off base. But considering you responded to Novelist's comments, and appreciate his participation, and have in the past responded with the most respect even to one who disagreed totally, i felt that perhaps it is time to ask, what did i do, or not do?!? Regardless of your views, my response was a considered and heart felt analysis. True, i often do not respond to all who try to help me, but include a general acknowledgment then. Your specific response to so many on an individual basis, just seems like a glaring omission in my case.

Please accept my apology if it was an oversight, a computer glitch, or other error. Since you are participating on this wonderful forum and have responded to my posts in the past, and I hope will do so in the future, i just decided it better to clear any misunderstanding i may be under, rather than let it fester. Frankly, as a NYC boy, i always felt foxes and wolves were similar (HA HA), and not till this discussion, had i realized that they are in fact very different.

Finally, regarding your latest remarks about foxes carrying disease. I love squirrels obviously. They come into my house, and can sit or rest, or eat and often touch me and try to talk to me. Yet most i know, think i am foolish, telling me that they carry disease and are "RODENTS" ( using the word in a most condescending way. And this is ironic, since most who know me, would consider me in many ways as fanatical as Howard Hughes ( like Detective Monk ), when it comes to cleanliness. My wild squirrels are all very local, reside nearly always on the property of that of a few neighbors. From what i read, rabies would only be contagious in the few hours that it is most advanced in the carrier, and at that time, the afflicted animal would be obviously crazy, and one to avoid. So not sure if Foxes might only actually be able to transmit that disease when also obviously under it's influence. I think most often people fear and hate what they do not understand and choose to believe the little they read, rather than invest in more research. Anyway, PT, you come across as a very sweet, and sincere person. I do apologize if you felt that I was not being sympathetic to your feelings. Guess it was 'tough love'. MN

[Jackie in Tampa]

For about a week in June, I saw a very large, maybe the biggest male I have ever see, racoon hanging around. Looked beautiful and healthy, just made me nervous with kids in the Half Way House...
I was ready to trap him and take him to the neighborhood park, probably where he came from. I would not have hauled him away, just back where he has natural habitat and pond, food and water.
It coming up a year when I THINK a coonie scared Rubilicious to her death in my release cage...so I keep watch on all preditor wildlife...I keep a hav a hart! trap here always!
Hard to see him, but this is a very large and tall oak, he was huge!
His tail was as big as Freds arm! His head like my 85lb mutt Fido!
PT-I understand your vigilance.:grouphug

[Pointy Tale]

Dear PT, it has been a long while, but finally, i figure it reasonable to ask; Having followed this thread from the beginning, and being the one who actually rated this thread (FIVE STARS!) for its humanistic quality... is there a reason, that of all the responders, it seems like I am the one who you did not feel was worthy of a response from you. I certainly understand that you have far more urgent issues than to respond to every poster who's suggestion you feel is off base. But considering you responded to Novelist's comments, and appreciate his participation, and have in the past responded with the most respect even to one who disagreed totally, i felt that perhaps it is time to ask, what did i do, or not do?!? Regardless of your views, my response was a considered and heart felt analysis. True, i often do not respond to all who try to help me, but include a general acknowledgment then. Your specific response to so many on an individual basis, just seems like a glaring omission in my case.

Please accept my apology if it was an oversight, a computer glitch, or other error. Since you are participating on this wonderful forum and have responded to my posts in the past, and I hope will do so in the future, i just decided it better to clear any misunderstanding i may be under, rather than let it fester. Frankly, as a NYC boy, i always felt foxes and wolves were similar (HA HA), and not till this discussion, had i realized that they are in fact very different.

Finally, regarding your latest remarks about foxes carrying disease. I love squirrels obviously. They come into my house, and can sit or rest, or eat and often touch me and try to talk to me. Yet most i know, think i am foolish, telling me that they carry disease and are "RODENTS" ( using the word in a most condescending way. And this is ironic, since most who know me, would consider me in many ways as fanatical as Howard Hughes ( like Detective Monk ), when it comes to cleanliness. My wild squirrels are all very local, reside nearly always on the property of that of a few neighbors. From what i read, rabies would only be contagious in the few hours that it is most advanced in the carrier, and at that time, the afflicted animal would be obviously crazy, and one to avoid. So not sure if Foxes might only actually be able to transmit that disease when also obviously under it's influence. I think most often people fear and hate what they do not understand and choose to believe the little they read, rather than invest in more research. Anyway, PT, you come across as a very sweet, and sincere person. I do apologize if you felt that I was not being sympathetic to your feelings. Guess it was 'tough love'. MN

MasterNibbler— I appreciate your reading and commenting on my thread.

I am not sure whether to laugh or say you are completing overreacting about my responding or lack thereof to any one person in particular, I should hope at some level you are teasing with me. I make every effort to be honest and respectful of other members.

So let’s start at the beginning—a fox was in my backyard less than 20 feet from me—leaving a dying chipmunk and a dead cardinal. I had to get help, I failed. The next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, the next day, etc., I was outside from very early in the morning being a human deterrent for foxes—all the while watching as many, too many to even mention being killed, taken and even eaten in front of me. I was outside every day, then having Chase killed and spending time with a wonderful TSB rehabber for help and support, almost all days—I prayed for thunderstorms, loud and heavy storms to have a moment of peace—even then I would watch from inside with a computer and respond to other members posts, mostly because I had no solution for my own situation and having the release of reading other peoples thread was happy for me, because most of my friends are gone—no friends no longer live on my property. To see someone else enjoying their squirrels and sharing it with me was peaceful at moments of extreme sadness.

I have been barked at, growled at, had teeth shown to me, chased at by foxes. I have been at moments very ill—my heart was aching so painfully I’ve never felt it before, my husband was getting ill—I was not keeping up with a normal life—everything in my life stopped for me to be human deterrent for foxes, a family celebration was cut short, I missed Mass for my Uncle who passed away, all because the foxes came, I just basically threw everyone out, so I could keep them from crossing over.

This March on the 17th, my beloved Pointy Tail was killed by a car—I have been devastated and lost without her. I have been simply unable at times to respond to everyone, other times, I did not respond because either I printed the post and read it outside and then something horrifying happened in front of my eyes and everything changed and I just had nothing to say, other times I had so much to say and yet nothing nice to say. Perhaps I even wrote that before. I thought I had mentioned that and as time went on, I did my best to respond, all I can do is my best.

Sometimes the written word does not come across as we speak, therefore, in a respectful way, could it be that perhaps you are overly sensitive. Are you looking for a public apology from me, that’s fine, I can offer it, despite not being well recently and my husband being more ill than I, and having to salvage what is left of my precious wildlife, yes, I can offer it, I am sorry I omitted a response directly mentioning your post.

Sometimes I write in other peoples thread and they don’t respond, I don’t take it personally, I realize there are just too many things going on to appease everyone, and we do the best we can with what we have, it’s not a big deal to me—it is what it is.

By the way, I did go to my community members and everyone laughed about the fox situation, it was a big joke to them—they welcomed the idea to have the foxes to kill the “rodents” as they called them.

I cannot get into the rabies debate with anyone because I do not have the time to research it, nor do I chose to do that research, and provide proof of it, however I have read it online that it can live in an animal depending on their situation up to two years before they exhibit any symptoms.

This morning three foxes came again, and again they had furry friends in their mouths to eat them—it was gross. No person should have to witness it and certainly no person should have to witness it as many times as I have—it is just deeply painful, those images will never leave your memory—and it has changed me as a person. I have gotten on my hands and knees and prayed to God, make it stop, to save my furry friends, for guidance, I have prayed for their souls—I have prayed for them not to feel pain when they were killed and eaten. I have stayed so long outside for them, because if they have to die, then I can take it.

My latest feeling within the last week or so is to be grateful for all things, including people responding in a thread I wrote, even if their opinions to do match my own and I am not saying that any one individual meets that criterion.

A side note, a raccoon in the area has now been confirmed to have rabies—something I felt was in the area.

Lastly, thanks for the really good cry, I really did not have enough on my plate—that was actually sarcastic.

[Pointy Tale]

For about a week in June, I saw a very large, maybe the biggest male I have ever see, racoon hanging around. Looked beautiful and healthy, just made me nervous with kids in the Half Way House...
I was ready to trap him and take him to the neighborhood park, probably where he came from. I would not have hauled him away, just back where he has natural habitat and pond, food and water.
It coming up a year when I THINK a coonie scared Rubilicious to her death in my release cage...so I keep watch on all preditor wildlife...I keep a hav a hart! trap here always!
Hard to see him, but this is a very large and tall oak, he was huge!
His tail was as big as Freds arm! His head like my 85lb mutt Fido!
PT-I understand your vigilance.:grouphug

Jackie—I learned something new today, that raccoons can climb a tree—this I just did not know. I see him there in your oak tree and I would be very nervous if I was you. Yes, Jackie, I truly believe I need and want to do everything I am able to do to stop the little ones from being killed—thanks Jackie for popping in and sharing your story and photos, especially with everything you have going on. By the way a raccoon in our area has now been confirmed to have rabies—something I felt was in the area. Thank you.

[Peaches]

Pointy tail I have been following this thread from the begining but have not been able to post due to a severe hand injury, also a squirrel pee'd on my old keyboard and half the keys did not work.
I am so sorry you are going through this, it must be so horrible for you.
I was just thinking that having a confirmed rabid raccoon in your area might work in your benifit to get the foxes removed. Call the authorities and tell then that the foxes have been acting very aggressive towards you and have chased you growling across your yard. Say they have lunged at you when you came out of your house and you are afraid of rabies. This just might be enough for them to come trap and remove them. Usually when rabies is confirmed in a area the authorities take no chances when people call to complain about aggressive wildlife. I hope this helps. My thoughts and prays are with you.

[tatcat]

:wave123 hey pt, you are in my thoughts today!!:grouphug

[Pointy Tale]

Peaches—Hi. I’m sorry to hear about your hand injury and hope you are better now. I appreciate your empathy, sometimes that is more than I can hope for. Grateful for the advice.

Tatcat—Thanks!! You made me smile, appreciate it very much.:)

Both of your kinds words mean more to me than I can say right now. Be well.

I am not well right now, neither is my husband, so I may be brief. There is so much to tell about the status and yet nothing to tell. I will, but today is not a good day for me, so I am sorry.

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

PT, can you trap the foxes and relocate them? It would be a large trap, but I'm sure there is such a thing.

[Pointy Tale]

Atlantasquirrelgirl—Hi thanks for reading and posting in my thread. We tried trapping ourselves—didn’t work, then found out you can’t. Working with trapper from state, have approval, it is now a matter of liability insurance—no one will provide it—we tried to get it, but insurance company say too big of a risk.

We are now at 5½ weeks of daily visits by the foxes—and more killing that I thought I would ever see. I am so grateful for this board as a means of support, an outlet to express my concerns and joy you bring to my life with your own friends.

I’ll keep you posted. Be well.

[longshotgamble]

I thought of you yesterday, when I spotted a dingo in our town. When I called Sissy, she said she has seen it too. Just another animal displaced or pet that was turned loose, in her (& mine) opinion.
I would trap, and I know you have said you have tried before, regardless of the law.
If you were closer I would lend Cletus, the horrible, to you.
Had to post photo of him, big, handsome, slightly dumb animal. Can you tell I adore him?

[Bravo]

I'm sorry to read that you and your husband aren't well... I hope things improve soon. Dealing with the foxes is more than enough on your plate.

[Pointy Tale]

I thought of you yesterday, when I spotted a dingo in our town. When I called Sissy, she said she has seen it too. Just another animal displaced or pet that was turned loose, in her (& mine) opinion.
I would trap, and I know you have said you have tried before, regardless of the law.
If you were closer I would lend Cletus, the horrible, to you.
Had to post photo of him, big, handsome, slightly dumb animal. Can you tell I adore him?
Longshotgamble—I am not feeling well, but you made me smile. Cletus—the horrible— I can see why you adore him, he is so cute and I love that he is next to the American Flag, awesome photo, and I bet he could do some damage to those foxes.

I'm sorry to read that you and your husband aren't well... I hope things improve soon. Dealing with the foxes is more than enough on your plate.
Bravo—appreciate it very much. I am working on the situation and will post info on that later. For now, I can enjoy everyone else’s little friends and I do very much.

[TexanSquirrel]

Sorry to hear you're still having trouble. I hope this gets sorted out soon.

[Pointy Tale]

Tex—thank you kindly. Appreciate and value your continued support. Will update soon. Much to tell, yet nothing of value, better to enjoy everyone else that complain myself.

[island rehabber]

PT I'm so sorry you have been ill -- somehow I missed that and I do apologize! Hope you're feeling a little better now...we need your benevolent spirit around here! :grouphug

[Pointy Tale]

IR—thank you, thank you, thank you. I’ll be OK, I promise—nothing serious, just don’t like being ill. I hate being sick, hate it, I am the worst patient.

[tatcat]

:wave123 hey pt, hope you and the hubby are feeling a lil better tonight...:grouphug

[Pointy Tale]

:wave123 hey pt, hope you and the hubby are feeling a lil better tonight...:grouphug
thanks:)