View Full Version : PUNKY - PLEASE READ
Frickster
04-28-2009, 03:06 PM
Hi everyone! I'm not sure whether Punky is having a problem or just very sleepy. She's acting very lethargic and just wants to sit on my shoulder or on top of everything in her cage. She is only on formula but she grabbed a tiny bit of fruits and veggies from Frick's bowl yesterday. She has been inside all day so she shouldn't be sapped from the heat. She isn't making any clicking sounds but she keeps making this sound like she's sniffing/smelling. Her breathing is a little jumpy looking and her eyes are heavy. She felt a little bloated shortly after eating, but she went in her potty and got a lot of poopies out. She didn't seem lethargic at all before eating at about 1:30....just since. Does this sound problematic or just like a sleepy little squirrel?
PBluejay2
04-28-2009, 03:13 PM
How old is Punky? But regardles of age, squirrels are most active early morning and early evening, and even adults will stay in their nests/nest boxes and sleep for most of the day--wild and pet--at least mine do.
Frickster
04-28-2009, 03:41 PM
10 1/2 weeks......she's not acting like she ever has though....that is why i'm concerned. usually, if she's sleepy she'll jump in her bed and curl up and sleep. today, she's acting very weird. she looks like a person who is falling asleep sitting up. i listened to her again and it's like a popping sniffing sound coming from her nose/mouth. nothing coming from inside her though. she hasn't gotten any formula up her nose so i am assuming this is not aspiration. it would be a clicking noise, correct?
Frickster
04-28-2009, 03:53 PM
I took her in the bathroom and steamed it for a few minutes and then wrapped her in a blanket and put her on the heating pad....she snuggled down to the warmest part and curled up....that's a good sign right? If something is wrong don't they usually cralw off the heat?
digiandchipper
04-28-2009, 03:58 PM
Oh, Frickster, I don't want to be a worry wart....but falling asleep sitting up doesn't sound good...especially now that she's not a teeny baby anymore...are you sure there was NOTHING she could have gotten into? Can you call Frick's vet???
Frickster
04-28-2009, 04:01 PM
Frick doesn't have a vet....remember VA is not friendly. She's curled up now on the heating pad - laying how she always cuddles with her tail over her face. Loopy Squirrel sent me some of the medicine to have on hand but I am not supposed to give it without knowing that it's needed, right? The only thing she ate was some nibbles of Frick's fruit...and that was yesterday. She was spunky all morning until about 10 mintues after she ate lunch.
smoknbunny
04-28-2009, 04:14 PM
Maybe she's going through a growth spurt and it tires her out?? The noise is the thing that would worry me. Has she fallen (even a short distance) or bopped her nose somehow? How do her front teeth look?
I ask this because we've gone through a lot of nose noises with Parker (of the malocclusion). At different times and after different procedures she sometimes "*piff!!*"s - that is, she sniffs outward like she is trying to clear her nose. Not saying Punky has a malocclusion but if she bopped her nose, she could have a teeny bit of swelling which would make her sniff.
Other than that, she ate her formula normally and didn't seem to inhale it or bubble it through her nose?
digiandchipper
04-28-2009, 04:16 PM
Maybe she's going through a growth spurt and it tires her out?? The noise is the thing that would worry me. Has she fallen (even a short distance) or bopped her nose somehow? How do her front teeth look?
I ask this because we've gone through a lot of nose noises with Parker (of the malocclusion). At different times and after different procedures she sometimes "*piff!!*"s - that is, she sniffs outward like she is trying to clear her nose. Not saying Punky has a malocclusion but if she bopped her nose, she could have a teeny bit of swelling which would make her sniff.
Other than that, she ate her formula normally and didn't seem to inhale it or bubble it through her nose?
Good points...have you had a look at her teeth lately? (I'm sorry I thought you had found Frick a vet - sorry, again)...Did you try to PM Loopy?
Frickster
04-28-2009, 04:31 PM
The noise she's making won't come out on this video....but this is the jumpiness I was talking about.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/frick_videos/th_P1120450.jpg (http://s389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/frick_videos/?action=view¤t=P1120450.flv)
JLM27
04-28-2009, 04:35 PM
Looks sorta like hiccups. What did she have for lunch?
digiandchipper
04-28-2009, 04:36 PM
I PMd IR....hopefully she will check in soon....I guess keep doing what you're doing until you hear...praying for little Punky and her worried mom.:grouphug
Frickster
04-28-2009, 04:36 PM
I haven't pm'ed loopy...just keep hoping one of them will pop on....figured if she's not online she probably won't get my message. She hasn't hit her nose that I know of....she's been exploring a lot lately and has had short spills, but she's landed on her feet each time. She's a fast little devil! Her bottom teeth are there, but her top teeth are still just little nubs. The noise she's making is more like a "piff" in my opinion. It's the noise she always makes when she's rooting around or whatever...but she usually will stop and start it and this isn't stopping. The other thing is that when she is sitting there or laying she kind of leans to the side until she's laying down. I just don't know what is going on....
Frickster
04-28-2009, 04:36 PM
Looks sorta like hiccups. What did she have for lunch?
just her formula
Frickster
04-28-2009, 04:38 PM
Maybe she's going through a growth spurt and it tires her out?? The noise is the thing that would worry me. Has she fallen (even a short distance) or bopped her nose somehow? How do her front teeth look?
I ask this because we've gone through a lot of nose noises with Parker (of the malocclusion). At different times and after different procedures she sometimes "*piff!!*"s - that is, she sniffs outward like she is trying to clear her nose. Not saying Punky has a malocclusion but if she bopped her nose, she could have a teeny bit of swelling which would make her sniff.
Other than that, she ate her formula normally and didn't seem to inhale it or bubble it through her nose?
no inhales or bubbles....she's actually gotten tons better about this. she doesn't even get it all over face as much now....in the mouth and down the hatch:tilt
foxsquirrels
04-28-2009, 05:09 PM
Frick, what you're describing sounds like she is cutting her top teeth. They can make little "pift pift" noise while cutting teeth. They will be a little cranky and chew on the syringe sometimes because it feels good to them. Try rubbing her gums on the top and see if they're sore or if it feels good to her. I'll pm you my number if you need it.
atlantasquirrelgirl
04-28-2009, 05:16 PM
If she's been exploring a lot, could be she's just pooped out. I find that when I upgrade them at that age to a larger cage, they sleep like logs after getting more exercise than usual.
island rehabber
04-28-2009, 06:32 PM
hi Frickster... I am concerned that she seems off balance - as you said, she sort of leans over until she lies down? Is this really a lack of balance, do you think? Or is she so lethargic she is falling asleep on her feet? Either way I would keep her on heat, as you're doing, and check her every few hours for any change in behavior. I'm not sure what this could be, but everything others have said above are possibilities. I would call or PM Loopy because if Punky seems worse, or no better later on tonight, you'll want to have meds on hand.
I never thought squirrels would get pneumonia or respiratory infections unless people aspirated them, and I always thought it would be easy to tell immediately from the clicking, but this little trouble with my Alvin taught me differently. I'm cautioning you that she may have picked up a respiratory bug of some kind and will need antibiotics, just as Alvin did. I will be off TSB for a few hours tonight but you should PM foxsquirrels, Loopy, Tomo, Squirlgirl....Jeez we have all good rehabbers -- any of them can help! :bowdown
Frickster
04-28-2009, 06:47 PM
I have the meds Loopy sent (BLESS HER HEART!!). Got them yesterday. She seems a little more alert but still sleepy. It was honestly like watching a person trying to stay awake in church. I will let her rest a little more and then get her out and observe her. Her belly was hard after she ate....but she got in her potty, like I said, and poopied a lot. Has also done several since....they all look fine and her tummy feels gooshy again. Should I hold off on this next feeding just in case? She was outside yesterday in Frick's pen for a bit...but I was with her....unless a bug bit her and I didn't know it. She was near some ants, but I kept moving her away from them. I keep listening for this clicking, but I feel like it's more like the noise Fox Squirrel and Smoknbunny wrote. She's still making it though....and I think I can see her little nose/lips moving with the noise. Her top teeth are VERY VERY short.....they haven't grown much since I started checking her a week or so ago. Her bottom teeth seem like they're as long as they should be. I appreciate everyone's help....more than you can know. I feel terrible that something's not right...but I'm doing the best I can without her being able to tell me what's wrong.
Frickster
04-28-2009, 08:35 PM
I have gone back and looked at her teeth again and tried to get pictures....I'm wondering if her bottom teeth aren't a little too long. She had a hickory nut she was grinding, but she hasn't in a while.....could this be part of the problem and the cause of the noise. It almost looks like her teeth are touching the top of her mouth. She has perked up a bit though....is scampering around a little on my pillows....oops....now on the floor lol. She still looks a litte sleepy but isn't teetering. Her mouth is SO small I hope these pictures help.
the first is her bottom teeth with her top just barely showing and the second shows them a little more separated so you can see just how small they are.....
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/frick_videos/th_P1120456.jpg (http://s389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/frick_videos/?action=view¤t=P1120456.flv)
EDIT: She's hopping around on the floor darting in and out....and just bonked her nose on the foot of the bed. She at least seems a little more lively.
smoknbunny
04-28-2009, 08:51 PM
What do her top teeth look like? Do they look like normal teeth but kind of short or do they curl or go in the wrong direction?
Frickster
04-28-2009, 08:52 PM
they look like very short regular teeth. but are the bottom ones too long do you think?
Frickster
04-28-2009, 08:54 PM
the noise she was making is not nearly as obvious....it seems more like her normal noises now. is this a good sign?
JLM27
04-28-2009, 09:09 PM
Punky and Alvin, you little guys, wishing you will get well soon. You have a lot of humans worried.
smoknbunny
04-28-2009, 09:21 PM
I can't say for sure. I just looked at someone here and she has pretty long lower teeth and shorter upper ones. I THINK Punky's look OK. THe reason I ask is that another of mine, Jude, had uneven lower teeth and the longer one messed up the upper one. Her teeth are probably just fine.
All these questions are because in dealing with Parker's issues, we discovered just how sensitive the palate (?) can be. Parker's was disturbed with tooth trimming and upper tooth removal and it can also be disturbed by trauma.
I wondered if she had bumped her nose because of the sniffing. Maybe she got something up it - like some dust or fluff.
How's her energy level now?
Frickster
04-28-2009, 09:24 PM
she still seems a little tired in her eyes, i guess.....BUT she was hopping around her and exploring all over my room. running under the bed, around the baskets, etc. she was climbing and hopping and scampering. the noise seems more subdued. you mentioned dust....when she was out and about yesterday i'm sure she did get into some of that. she was on the floor and went under furniture and stuff....so i'm sure she definitely ran through her fair share of dust bunnies.
Peaches
04-28-2009, 09:46 PM
For 10 1/2 weeks I think her teeth look normal. The lower teeth are normally a lot longer than the top ones. Since her top teeth are just barely breaking though her bottoms will grow until they touch them, as the uppers grow they will grind down the bottoms to a proper length.
I'm wondering if she is teething and might possibly have a fever from it. It would explain the lethargy and also the pfft pfft puffing. Does Punk feel warmer than Frick?
wheezer
04-28-2009, 10:20 PM
I just saw this thread and after looking at that last video, I would say she was acting normal and the teeth looked OK though I would think the top would be a bit longer by this age but I am sure they all grow differently in each squirrel:)
At 10 1/2 weeks she should be trying solid foods so that is why I would think her top teeth should be a bit bigger.
I have seen that type of breathing you had in the first video before, nothing to be alarmed about.
Those are my thoughts:tilt :grouphug
foxsquirrels
04-28-2009, 10:30 PM
Frick, I just looked at all my babies that are about her age and they look very similar. Her teeth look normal to me for her age. I have mine on some solid food by 8 weeks. I do give them a half a nut each, per day, starting at 8 weeks (I use pecans or walnuts). It's just my opinion that it helps with teething issues.
I think it's a good possibility that she could have gotten a little outside pollen or dust ingested. Call if you need anything.
Frickster
04-28-2009, 10:33 PM
For 10 1/2 weeks I think her teeth look normal. The lower teeth are normally a lot longer than the top ones. Since her top teeth are just barely breaking though her bottoms will grow until they touch them, as the uppers grow they will grind down the bottoms to a proper length.
I'm wondering if she is teething and might possibly have a fever from it. It would explain the lethargy and also the pfft pfft puffing. Does Punk feel warmer than Frick?
Unfortunately, hard to tell.....Frick is outside and Punky is inside....she's not out yet. I am waiting on my order of baby formula squirrel blocks to give her those for the first solid food. She snuck into Frick's bowl....it wasn't given to her lol. So that solid food was a fluke. I have given her 2 grapes and a tiny piece of strawberry in the last 2 weeks or so. I was told to start her with a veggie like collard greens so plan on doing that next. Punky also still has the heating pad at times and lots of fleece...so she always feels warm. :dono
I'm hoping her increased energy is a sign that we're on the up and up. I tried to rub her little gums a little like was suggested...but her mouth is so small it just agitated her lol.
Frickster
04-28-2009, 10:37 PM
Am going to go feed her again now...I know she's starving!!! I'll give her a nut as well so she can be trimming her teeth some more. Hopefully the squirrel blocks will be here soon and she can have those too. THANKYOU ALL from the bottom of ALL our hearts!!!
smoknbunny
04-28-2009, 10:42 PM
She looks like a healthy little critter. I'll bet having something to chew on will help out if her teeth are too long. I agree with Wheezer - the twitchy breathing isn't out of the ordinary.
Punky is such a cutie. Hope she was just having a sleepy day.:grouphug
Frickster
04-29-2009, 12:27 AM
i gave her the formula as well as a couple nuts to grind her teeth on. i just went back to check her again. the sound is still there it's just not as loud. it almost reminds me of someone whispering. i've taken her out of her cage though for a while and let her just curl up in a blanket. looks like she's awake and decided to go exploring some more though. she seemed really lethargic again when i woke her up....maybe she's just a hard sleeper and is like that when first disturbed. i'm hoping i just keep catching her at bad times today and tomorrow she'll be back to my spunky punky!
merman
04-29-2009, 03:32 AM
Hey, hope to hear your good news today about beloved Punky..
:grouphug
Twistedsiren
04-29-2009, 07:00 AM
I think she looks fine for what it's worth!
JLM27
04-29-2009, 09:11 AM
Could she have gotten a parasite up her nose from the dust? Seems as though she does have something going on with her nose. Are there any rehabbers near you that could take a look at her?
Frickster
04-29-2009, 10:05 AM
IR sent me a rehabber's name in the beginning....somewhere in VA. I'm not sure if it was someone on the board though. I'm sure they are good....but if they aren't on here I don't know that they'd just check her out and not want to keep her. If it's not an emergency situation....I don't want to give her up. If it IS life threatening....absolutely!
Loopy Squirrel
04-29-2009, 10:50 AM
I think that her bottom teeth look just a little long to me. Sometimes babies teeth (bottom) will grow rapidly and because they are not yet eating many solids the lower teeth will over grow a little. This usually isn't a huge problem but sometimes those little teeth can puncture the palate. I am wondering if this is what has happened. It is difficult to see since their mouths are so small. If it is has it will be barely visiable right behind her top teeth. The hole can cause problems because food & formula can get up in there. It could cause sinus/respiratory problems and possible infections. I have had the holes close on their own but it takes a while. If this continues and she remains lethargic, it may not be a bad idea to start an antibiotic. When I have babies that have taken bad falls and have nose/bleeding traumas I have used a small drop of baby saline drops in each nostril to help clear and dry up the nasal secretions.
Frickster
04-29-2009, 03:06 PM
SPUNKY PUNKY WAS BACK!!!! when i walked by her cage today she was sitting on top of her stuffies and jumped up on the side when i got closer. she ate her breakfast and scampered all over us. i do not hear the noise that i was hearing yesterday......this should mean things are ok, right?
Pointy Tale
04-29-2009, 03:17 PM
Frickster, this is such good news. I’m so very happy for you and Punky. She is so precious, that I pray everything is ok for her and you too.
island rehabber
04-29-2009, 04:25 PM
Frickster that's wonderful :thumbsup. Keep a real close eye on her, and if she's still feeling her old self again by tonight we can take her out of Emergency. :)
Ontario Rehabber
04-29-2009, 07:15 PM
Great news :thumbsup Hope she continues to feel better.
smoknbunny
04-29-2009, 07:31 PM
Yay! Spunky Punky!!
I agree with Loopy - keep an eye on the teeth. I'm not a good judge of tooth length but my original reason for concern was my Jude's bottom teeth. I think I mentioned that one of his interfered with the growth of his upper teeth. Get a regular good look at her top teeth if you can to make sure they are growing properly. It would be really tough to see the palate but the upper teeth might give you a clue.
Sure am glad to hear she's doing better!
Loopy Squirrel
05-01-2009, 01:28 AM
I can tell you that when my Little Pea punctured her palate it was barely visible. I actually thought at first that the small opening I saw was a normal part of her palate until I started looking harder.
Frickster
05-01-2009, 01:32 AM
i have tried to look in there, but all i can see is her tongue!! ARGH!! she is back to normal though....YAY!!!!
Loopy Squirrel
05-01-2009, 01:35 AM
It is very hard to see and they usually won't let you open their mouths very wide. I was very lucky with Pea, she was cooperative and very unusual. Although it still took two people, one to hold her and the other to hold the flashlight.
Frickster
05-01-2009, 11:29 AM
I got it open....I just couldn't see past her tongue...Her mouth seems very different to me than Frick's. Frick actually let me open her mouth big enough to see her back teeth. FASCINATING those tiny little teeth.
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