grinding teeth to the gums

[Peaches]

Hello everyone, I have a rather strange problem and I'm out of idea's. :thinking
Two yrs ago I raised two female baby grays, they were raised as sisters but are not actually litter mates. There were no problems and they grew up just fine but due to their age and the weather they had to winter with me. They were fine until just before spring and then I noticed both squirrels had wore their bottom teeth down to the gums and the upper incisors had overgrown. They are not malo babies, the teeth only over grow because the bottom teeth are worn to the gums. I watch them eat and they both use their bottom teeth to gnaw. Because of this I have not been able to release them as I have to trim their top teeth every 4 weeks. I cannot understand how two squirrels raised/housed together can both have the same weird problem. I dont think it was something I somehow caused because the other babies I raised and over wintered that year were just fine. It's almost like one taught the other to chew this way.
I am considering removing all hard chewable objects from their cage to force the bottom teeth to grow back in. I have to cut the top teeth anyway so it really makes no difference in that department. My main concern with doing this is nutrition, they wont be allowed to eat any blocks during this time. Also does anyone have a idea of the time line I am looking at to fully grow the bottom teeth back? I am 99% sure the teeth will line up right if they only have the chance to grow back in. Of course there is no guarantee they will not just wear the teeth right back down again but I want to give it a try. Does anyone have a better idea? Has anyone ever had this happen with one of yours?

[Buddy'sMom]

Can't help you with the timeline, though I'm sure others will post on that.

As to nutrition in the meantime: Many squirrels will eat blocks that are softened in Esbilac (or something) and that might be worth a try if they are already eating them. Also, some of the people with squirrels that have no teeth or have tooth issues will chop all foods into small pieces so they can just chew on their back teeth and swallow -- no need to break the food up or take bites. Rodent blocks or squirrel blocks could be chopped or pulverized/ground and mixed with something else they will eat (if the softening thing doesn't work for them)

Hope this helps. :)

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[wheezer]

I once had a squirrel that was born without a bottom jaw and I put rodent blocks in a coffee bean grinder to make it into a powder then mixed the powder with baby food fruit. This worked great!

I hope others can help with your problem of the teeth. It sounds very unusual:shakehead Good Luck:grouphug

[ShesASquirrelyGirl]

I believe this is still a form of mallo and probably tooth disease. Perhaps the teeth are very poor. Soft so they wear down to easily. Could be a calcium or nutrient problem. Maybe not that you don't give enough but they don't absorb it correctly.
As for the rodent blocks simply soak them and let them eat it that way. You can't take it away its the most important part of the diet and should be given before anything else.
I would suggest taking them to a vet who is experienced with malocclusion and tooth issues in rodents and see if its some sort of deficiency or tooth disease.

[Peaches]

Thanks everyone.
Shesasquirrelygirl I have been giving alot of thought to what you said and it makes sense except that I know they are getting enough calcium and D. They are under 7 Full Spectum Lights for 12 hours a day and have wire tubes that lead from their cage to a cat door in my window that goes to a cage outside in my garden. They are not blood related so it cant be genetic and I have watched them both chew, they use their bottom teeth to break pieces off. If the teeth are too soft and wear too easily then why dont the top teeth wear down as well? Neither squirrel has ever broken a top tooth and aside from over growing they seem strong and straight. Its really got me bafffled. You are correct though that it has to be enviormental because they are unrelated and housed together, damned if I know what it is though. :thinking
I suppose there is a possiblility that both of these babies are truely malo babies and its just a coincidence that I housed them together. Is malo evident under 9 months? My plan is to get all their incisors to grow all the way in and then sedate them and hone them to nice sharp edges that line up perfectly, maybe then they will use them correctly. I guess I'll know more in a few weeks when they grow in and I see if they line up correctly or if they end up right back where they started. I will have the vet check them out as well. Thanks for the feedback. I hope your little one is feeling better with her teeth. Poor little thing.

[ShesASquirrelyGirl]

I would say it had to be something in their diet if its happening to both and they are not related. Something as easy as too many nuts or too little of something else might cause it. Perhaps something they get as a treat that pulls nutrients..
What do they get daily - weekly?

[Peaches]

ok deep breath, this is a long list.
I give them Kaytee forti-diet blocks, Sunseed critter cubes, Oxbow regal rat and since June I've been making the squirrel cookies from this site but they don't really eat them yet. They also get brussel sprouts, broccoli, kale, mushrooms, carrots, lettuce (all sorts) tomatoes, cucumbers, cauliflower and I'm sure some veggies I've forgotten. They get two different types a day.
Once or twice a week they get apples, peaches, pears or strawberrys. They like banana peals (they wont eat the actual banana though)
I limit the nuts to two each a day but they are both big on roasted pumpkin seeds and pistachios and will steal them from others. One problem I have is when the squirrels are out playing they all tend to hide nuts all over the room and they will go hunting for someone elses stash whenever they are out.
I admit though before I knew how bad nuts were I did give them alot more than this. but even so I dont think it was a overload amount (maybe I'm wrong about this though) The teeth are straight and line up fine so if that was the case and they were just soft from the nuts wouldnt they have hardened up when I corrected that over a year ago? Maybe they have but are just too short to catch up now?
They have a mineral wheel and a cuttlebone in the cage. They also have some bleached bones to chew and I give them a half a tums each about once a week (they nibble this over a few days)
There are also lots of little things like new tree growth on the branch and stuff from the yard. I use no chemicals what so ever on anything so I dont worry about picking stuff. I also give them treats once or twice a week like a nilla waffer or a potato chip, yes I know these are horrible but they really love them and I only give a small piece once a week or so.
I think thats pretty much the staples, maybe I'm missing something that you will spot. I'm really wondering if they both broke their bottom teeth off on something I gave them way back when and its just been a vicious cycle ever since. This is why I want to get their bottom teeth to grow back in so I can see if it continues. Sorry this is so long, thanks so much for your help. :thankyou

[squirrelfriend]

My Squirrelie chewed on the bars of the cage until his lower teeth got down low enough that they did not grow back. He was hardly in the cage. Maybe for only an hour or two a day when I would eat meals. He just didn't like to be without his mommy. I have to trim his top ones too now because of it. If you are able to, check their lower teeth to see if the root is exposed. If it is it will not grow back and you have a permanent resident.

[FallensMommie]

I was going to suggest gnawing the cage as well. When Fallen broke his arm he had to go in to a rehab cage hubby built and he chewed and chewed on that cage. He broke his bottom tooth from it and his top teeth were being gnawed down to almost nothing, so I covered the inside of his cage with cardboard which did the trick. He finally got use to the cage after weeks in it and by me not allowing him to chew the cage his top teeth grew and the bottom tooth that was broken corrected itself. He is now in a homemade 6'X4' cage when not permitted to roam with 1/4" wire mesh that some say they can still chew but he can't chew it....plus it helps he likes his big cage so he never does chew it. But I still put him in his rehab cage for natural sunlight and his rehab cage had the 1/2" wire mesh that he would chew while outside...I fixed it by wrapping it with the 1/4" wire mesh and wahlaaa no more chewing mesh wire.

[Peaches]

Well its been only a few days on softened foods and already they have little nubs growing back in :wahoo I cut back the top teeth and sharpened them to a nice chisel. I managed to do this without sedation :multi I think they should have full size bottom incisors within two weeks and then I can give back hard foods and see if they can chew correctly.
I suppose they may have worn them down or broken them off chewing on the cage bars, its been over a year since this happened and I honestly dont remember if they were cage chewers as juveniles or not. :dono They dont chew the bars now though. I only realized this when I was giving them a exam for release last spring.
Squirrelfriend I dont think your squirrelly has damaged his roots because the roots are very deep into the jaw. I think he did exactly what mine did. Once the bottom teeth are worn to the gums they cant control the growth of the tops and use only the bottoms to chew. Its a vicious cycle and hopefully once I break it they will be normal again. I'll keep you posted. :wave123

[Sciurus1]

Peaches, correcting them as you have done is one good thing to do, and cracking their nuts for them till the teeth grow back in is another. I recommend that you have your Vet check to make sure there is no odontoma problem, for wire chewing can result in that condition. Having a habitat that is large enough for them to not feel trapped is important, and with two squirrels that needs to be twice as big as for one. They need to have a sense of space for each of them. One reason I recall there was chewing going on, was that one squirrel we had felt dominated by another, and wanted to get away from them. Having separate nest boxes may help, especially if one is a male, since the males tend to want to be top squirrel. As for removing all chewables, I suggest you leave the softer ones, like the calcium chews, and offer soft wood to distract them from chewing on the wire.

[Peaches]

I rarely if ever see them chew the cage wires. They are in two 4X4X6 ft cages that are connected by a 12" square wire tube. This allows them to be together or seperate as they wish. They are both females. I'd say about half the week they are cuddled together sleeping and half the week they are grumbling at each other and sleeping seperate. I didnt want to completely seperate them because I want to put them into a release cage together (assuming I can ever release them) There does not seem to be any damage to the teeth but I will take an x-ray to check for Odontoma, I hadnt even thought of that. This is the lower incisers and they are usually less subjected to trauma.

[Sciurus1]

The two cage set up is just perfect Peaches!

Just as a note, Odontomas can and do occur in the lower teeth, Squarlet had them, along with ones she had in her upper incisors; yet the lowers weren't a problem for her, just the one upper one, that was blocking her airway, and causing an infection. Her X rays may still be on her thread, so you might want to check that out for reference. In thinking more about the effects of odontomas, if your girls were in pain from having them in the lower incisors, likely they wouldn't be wearing down their teeth very quickly, but rather avoid using them. For that reason, odontomas may not be connected with this problem, but still it would be good to check to see if they have developed them in the upper incisors just the same.

[squirrelfriend]

Unfortunately Squirrelie's roots did show on the bottom ones. He can't eat anything hard. I have to even give him chopped nuts, chopped fruits and vegies and baby food. It's been over two years of soft food and no grow back. I wish they would but I really don't think that they are. He's not a chewer anymore either. Hasn't been for a long time. I hope your guys end up ok. Squirrelie is strictly a house squirrel. I put him on the porch and he squawks and runs back inside. I put him on a tree and he just looks back at me like "Please don't make me do this. I don't belong out here!":shakehead

[4skwerlz]

Just a note on feeding a squirrel who can't chew properly. If you are making the squirrel blocks, you can leave them unbaked. Freeze them though, and then thaw (or briefly microwave) each block before feeding.

[Pam]

Peaches, the pictures of Squarlet's radiographs are on this thread. Post 280 http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8149&page=14&highlight=radiographs

Squarlet had four odontomas, two on the top and two on the bottom. (post 361)

[Peaches]

Pam those radiographs are awesome, great for reference.
I x-rayed them both today and everything seems normal. They are growing little nubs back but are looking for anything hard to chew on. Poor things I think the're bored. Hopefully in another week or so I can give them back their stuff. The bottoms grow very quickly. Thanks for all the advice, I'll keep you posted on how this turns out. Fingers crossed.