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YamahaGirl
08-20-2006, 09:10 AM
Ok, here is my dilemma. Both my babies are around the 5 week mark, have not opened their eyes yet.

About 3-4 days ago, I noticed the female was suckling on the male's penis. It became red and irritated looking. Everytime I saw it I carefully removed her and it would stop, after a day it healed up fine and looked ok. Then again she would do the same, causing the redness, etc again. I have since seperated them by putting a divider into the container I have them in.

BUT NOW, he is suckling on himself! His little penis is swollen and very red. I am not sure what to do. He seems to be urinating fine, the female has always urinated much more than he, but I have not really noticed a decrease at all in urine. Sometimes he makes little noises when I am stimulating him to go but nothing bad or loud that may indicated real pain. I think maybe he is experiencing discomfort tho.

My first question is: Is there something that I can do to stop him from doing this to himself? Like something topical that may act as a deterrent?

What can I do to help relieve the discomfort? Do you ever use a antibiotic ointment?

What should I look for in case of an infection? I have not noticed any pus or anything of this sort yet, I thought I did a couple days ago, but the next time I checked there was nothing. Its just swollen and red.

Everything else is pretty much normal from what I understand. His stools were a bit darker today, more of a brownish instead of yellow, but towards the end they seemed to be becoming more yellow again, I will check at his next feeding in about 3 hours.

They are both consuming about 3.5-4cc of formula (Esbilac) and they both weigh about 3 ounces each. This is almost a full ounce more than when I got them on Aug 9. When I got them they weighed 2.1 ounces.

PLEASE any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I do not have a license at this time, however I have recieved my info packet to take the exam and hope to do so when it is offered this November. I am also having a very hard time finding a vet that will see either of them if a serious problem should arise. I am being told I must have a license to provide to them or they cant treat. :shakehead I think that if an animal needs the treatment, there should be some sort of exception but it does not seem like that is the case as I have learned in the past with a sick ferret I had and passed away since.

Luckily, I do have siblings in the veterinary field that are more than willing to provide me with the proper medications should I need them, but I would have to know the proper dosages to feed him should he need any antibiotics for the condition of his penis.

PLEASE HELP!
Thank you so much in advance!
Heather

GhosTS
08-20-2006, 11:27 AM
Genital suckling is common with small babies.For the inflamation..an anti-inflamatory oinment can be used.And if it turns to an infection an anti-bacterial oinment will help.But not yet.There is no need to give any medication orally for now.As to stop suckling...something bitter..like unsweetened cranberry juice may help.Make sure its not bad for the babies.That might help.

YamahaGirl
08-20-2006, 02:23 PM
Anti inflammatory ointment?? What is that, can you tell me the name of one?

And I was curious about that bitter apple stuff you use on puppies to make them stop biting/chewing things???I dont know if that is safe or not??


Thanks,
Heather

rygel1hardt
08-20-2006, 06:52 PM
Hi Gal the bitter apple is alcohol based and might burn him especially if he is allready raw. You may just have to seperate them for a while. Good luck and keep us posted. Stacey
And I was curious about that bitter apple stuff you use on puppies to make them stop biting/chewing things???I dont know if that is safe or not??


Thanks,
Heather[/QUOTE]

YamahaGirl
08-20-2006, 07:24 PM
They are seperated, he is suckling on himself now!:dono

rygel1hardt
08-20-2006, 07:43 PM
Ok well maybe try wrapping his whole middle section in an ace bandage so he cant get to it. Just make sure it isnt to tight.
They are seperated, he is suckling on himself now!:dono

muffinsquirrel
08-20-2006, 09:25 PM
I have had some success using Better Bitters, made by Canopy. It is made for birds, has no alcohol in it, and tastes REALLY BAD. (And yes, that is a 'voice-of-experience' report - I wasn't about to put anything on my babies if I didn't know if it would hurt them or burn their mouth or something.)

muffinsquirrel

Secret Squirrel
08-20-2006, 10:18 PM
How often are you feeding them??? You may want to feed more often since the suckling is a comfort action. I usually let the baby's eat until they are satisfied and full. They will naturally slow down in nursing when their bellies get full but still may want to suckle on the nipple. :tilt

I dip the nipple in formula and just let them enjoy the time at the nipple....like laying there with mom and just enjoying quality time.:peace

muffinsquirrel
08-21-2006, 12:39 AM
I wonder if you could take one of the pet formula bottles and nipples, maybe stuff something in the nipple to give it firmness - cotton or fabric, perhaps- and then secure it in a rice buddy somehow. You'd have to be careful to secure it extra extra good, but it would give him the satisfaction and comfort of nursing, and from something warm like mom, too.

muffinsquirrel

YamahaGirl
08-21-2006, 08:59 AM
How often are you feeding them??? You may want to feed more often since the suckling is a comfort action. I usually let the baby's eat until they are satisfied and full. They will naturally slow down in nursing when their bellies get full but still may want to suckle on the nipple. :tilt

I dip the nipple in formula and just let them enjoy the time at the nipple....like laying there with mom and just enjoying quality time.:peace

The males eyes just opened last night, so they are around the 5 week mark, I still feed them every 3 hours during the day and then about every 4-5 hours in the middle of the night. I was told not to keep feeding them until they stop because it takes 5 minutes for food to "register" in there brain and that they dont normally stop, which is what I did find out from doing that, they started getting aspirated every time I fed them if I over fed them, so I got a very nice chart and have been following it and no more aspirations. They are eating about 4cc each now. I have tried to put just the nipple in there with him but it wont stay still for him to keep ahold of and suck on, he just spits it out, I have even tried to put the small syringe with the nipple on it and its like he figures out there is nothing coming out of it so he spits it out after a minute!

I will keep trying the plain nipple, I have ordered some different styles that I will try also, thank you!!!:thumbsup

YamahaGirl
08-21-2006, 09:01 AM
Ok well maybe try wrapping his whole middle section in an ace bandage so he cant get to it. Just make sure it isnt to tight.

Ok, that sounds like an idea I could try, I was trying to think of something similar, my only concern is how to fasten it so it does not fall off???

Any ideas on that??

I dont think I would want to use a pin or anything like that.

Thank you!

YamahaGirl
08-21-2006, 09:01 AM
I have had some success using Better Bitters, made by Canopy. It is made for birds, has no alcohol in it, and tastes REALLY BAD. (And yes, that is a 'voice-of-experience' report - I wasn't about to put anything on my babies if I didn't know if it would hurt them or burn their mouth or something.)

muffinsquirrel


Where can I find this? Online?

Thank you!

Critter_Queen
08-21-2006, 09:08 AM
A type of anti-inflammatory cream would be Preparation H...but I don't know if that's ok to use if he's suckling on himself...Maybe you could put some on him and leave it there while you hold him to be sure he doesn't suckle for a little while then wipe it off really well? Any type of ointment or cream for arthritis is an anti-inflammtory cream...see if you can find one that's non-toxic...

How much do your babies weigh? I'm pretty sure I was feeding Zeke every 4-5 hours and feeding 6-7 cc at a time at five weeks old... Weezel is 4.5 weeks old and is currently being fed every 4-5 hours and is eating 4.5-5.0 cc at a time... Maybe they aren't getting quite full enough and that's the source of the suckling? I usually let mine suck on the nipple as long as they want once the syringe is empty (the last syringe in the feeding)...

But, I've not had this particular problem yet...so I don't know if any of this will help or not. Good luck and keep us posted!!

YamahaGirl
08-21-2006, 09:46 AM
A type of anti-inflammatory cream would be Preparation H...but I don't know if that's ok to use if he's suckling on himself...Maybe you could put some on him and leave it there while you hold him to be sure he doesn't suckle for a little while then wipe it off really well? Any type of ointment or cream for arthritis is an anti-inflammtory cream...see if you can find one that's non-toxic...

How much do your babies weigh? I'm pretty sure I was feeding Zeke every 4-5 hours and feeding 6-7 cc at a time at five weeks old... Weezel is 4.5 weeks old and is currently being fed every 4-5 hours and is eating 4.5-5.0 cc at a time... Maybe they aren't getting quite full enough and that's the source of the suckling? I usually let mine suck on the nipple as long as they want once the syringe is empty (the last syringe in the feeding)...

But, I've not had this particular problem yet...so I don't know if any of this will help or not. Good luck and keep us posted!!

THANK YOU!

They each weigh 3 ounces right now. I was feeding them each what they wanted for about a day or 2 and when I did not "cut off" the food supply for them they would not stop! It would end up aspirating them and sometimes the food would come right back up almost like they were throwing up, their stools were almost white and extremely runny. I was told I was feeding them too much, so this is when I got the chart and I go according to the chart, they have steadily been gaining about 0.2-0.3 ounces every 2 days.

I can certainly try again with a bit more!

Thank you!

Critter_Queen
08-21-2006, 11:17 AM
Zeke got diarrhea when I fed him the right amount, but was feeding him an hour too soon each time...so the timing can cause that, too...

I weigh babies in grams so it's more accurate, but if my math is right (don't bank on it!) your babies are 85 grams each...they should be fed about every 4-5 hours if they are five weeks old and they should get a maximum of 4.25 cc per feeding at each sitting. For every 10 grams they gain they go up by half a cc per feeding. They are growing by about 2.5-4 grams each day if they are gaining .2 or .3 oz every two days...so that is an OK increase, but could be more... I think Zeke gains about 4-8 grams per day...sometimes a little less. 10 grams is equal to 0.351 oz.

Confused yet? :D I hope this is helpful information...sometimes I start to confuse myself! LOL!

YamahaGirl
08-21-2006, 11:31 AM
Zeke got diarrhea when I fed him the right amount, but was feeding him an hour too soon each time...so the timing can cause that, too...

I weigh babies in grams so it's more accurate, but if my math is right (don't bank on it!) your babies are 85 grams each...they should be fed about every 4-5 hours if they are five weeks old and they should get a maximum of 4.25 cc per feeding at each sitting. For every 10 grams they gain they go up by half a cc per feeding. They are growing by about 2.5-4 grams each day if they are gaining .2 or .3 oz every two days...so that is an OK increase, but could be more... I think Zeke gains about 4-8 grams per day...sometimes a little less. 10 grams is equal to 0.351 oz.

Confused yet? :D I hope this is helpful information...sometimes I start to confuse myself! LOL!

LOL, no not confused, the scale I am using does not measure in grams, only ounces. I have a converter tho that I use to get grams. So it seems I am feeding correctly (every 4-5 hours) and the right amount (4cc). Things seem good then!

I am going to try the "stuffed" nipple dipped in formula and the better bitters and see if that will help also.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP!:thumbsup
Heather

YamahaGirl
08-23-2006, 08:24 AM
I am STILL having issues with this genital suckling, I have ordered the Better Bitters but it is coming from California, so I have to wait a week before I can get it!

I have this Natural Bitter End that was recommended to me, I am using it and its NOT working! He still sucks on himself, crazy little guy!!!!:dono

I drip it on him and blow it dry then drip another drop onto him and then put him down, everytime I go in to feed him, he is suckling on himself again!

Im getting worried, he is swollen and red and the hole that I thought should be at the end of his penis is on the top now and looking very large, almost stretched out.

He still urinates, usually on his own, very rarely does he if I stimulate him. When I take him out for feeding he usually pees and poops on his own. I still try, very gently, to stimulate him to make sure its all out, but he rarely goes again.

He is eating fine.

Is this reason for concern? I mean what does the mother do in the wild when this happens? I realize that there is alot more suckling going on with the mother in the wild than with me. I have tried to put the nipples in with him to suckle on but he cant hold onto them, they just flip out of his little hands and back to himself he goes.

My female is also starting to do the same thing, she had tried in the past but would not grab on to herself, now she is!! She is also getting red now, I have put drops of the same stuff on her. She is not as bad at all.

I have also tried to put pieces of cloth or ace bandage around his belly, gently of course, but that does not work either, he wiggles right out of anything I tie or place around him. It did work initially, because he could not reach himself over the cloth, but as soon as he moved it would slip right off!!

I have tried feeding them more often, giving more, everything that was suggested on here and it does not seem to work. I am feeding, every 4 hours, about 4.5-5cc per feeding which I was told was the max, they are around 5 weeks old, eyes just opened on male, not on female yet.

If ANYONE has any other suggestions, please let me know, Im desperate and worried at this point that something bad is going to happen if he doesnt stop, like an infection or something.

YamahaGirl
08-23-2006, 08:41 AM
Would that Flexible coflex available from Chris' work if I wrap it around him?

Desperate.:dono

Critter_Queen
08-23-2006, 08:49 AM
Have you tried wrapping him with that sports-wrap stuff that sticks to itself? Or I think there is a kind of gauze that does the same thing. I would still use a little bit of tape to hold it in place but maybe you could wrap it around him like a little diaper??

Geez, wish I could help more! Were you able to apply any anti-inflammitory ointment to his penis? Poor little dude... I would also suggest neosporin with the pain relief stuff in it. That seemed to help Weezel when Zeke was suckling on him. I would dab him with it before feeding and then again after stimulation.

Keep me posted, ok?

YamahaGirl
08-23-2006, 08:55 AM
Have you tried wrapping him with that sports-wrap stuff that sticks to itself? Or I think there is a kind of gauze that does the same thing. I would still use a little bit of tape to hold it in place but maybe you could wrap it around him like a little diaper??

Geez, wish I could help more! Were you able to apply any anti-inflammitory ointment to his penis? Poor little dude... I would also suggest neosporin with the pain relief stuff in it. That seemed to help Weezel when Zeke was suckling on him. I would dab him with it before feeding and then again after stimulation.

Keep me posted, ok?

I am going to purchase some of that wrap tape, I just seen it in Chris' stuff. I am going to put some of the anti inflam ointment and neosporing on him, but is it bad for him to ingest that stuff?? I mean, he is down there constantly, which is why I think the bitter stuff is not working, I mean it works at first but because he keeps going down there to suckle, eventually the bitter wears off and then he continues to suckle on himself!

Ill try the "diaper" style, its just so hard to keep it on him, I can get the stuff to stick to itself but he wiggles right out of it, lol, he needs suspenders for the diaper to keep it on...ha ha ha.

Thanks for the advice!
Heather

GhosTS
08-23-2006, 10:45 AM
Its strange that he keeps sukling after his eyes are opened.They usually give it up.Did you start giving any solids.Try giving some rodent block if you have and also a little apple piece.That might sway his mind away from the suckling.

YamahaGirl
08-23-2006, 10:50 AM
Its strange that he keeps sukling after his eyes are opened.They usually give it up.Did you start giving any solids.Try giving some rodent block if you have and also a little apple piece.That might sway his mind away from the suckling.


His eyes JUST opened on Sunday night, so maybe that has something to do with it? I am hoping he will "grow out of it". Maybe a few more days, hopefully??!!:dono

I plan to start some solids, yes, this week. I do have some of the rodent block, I will start with that.

I have the female also, her eyes have not yet opened, can I give her the rodent block too or wait til her eyes are open for any solids???

THANK YOU!!:thumbsup
Heather

muffinsquirrel
08-23-2006, 11:02 PM
If all else fails, try an Elizabethan Collar for him. Here is one web site that gives directions for making one (dogs and cat ones at top of page, but go on down to the bottom).

http://www.petalert.com.au/faid/faa5.php

You can also Google Elizabethan collars. I know that someone in the sugar glider community has made them for gliders before. The collar will definately not be a big hit with him, but it will keep him from sucking, and possibly save his life. Also, E-collars are a good thing to know about in case you ever have to keep one from chewing at the stitches from an operation of some sort.

muffinsquirrel

YamahaGirl
08-24-2006, 08:01 AM
If all else fails, try an Elizabethan Collar for him. Here is one web site that gives directions for making one (dogs and cat ones at top of page, but go on down to the bottom).

http://www.petalert.com.au/faid/faa5.php

You can also Google Elizabethan collars. I know that someone in the sugar glider community has made them for gliders before. The collar will definately not be a big hit with him, but it will keep him from sucking, and possibly save his life. Also, E-collars are a good thing to know about in case you ever have to keep one from chewing at the stitches from an operation of some sort.

muffinsquirrel

Thank you!:)


I have started to feed him more now, at 6cc every 5 hours right now. No diarrhea or anything, he likes to lick and suck on green grapes too! Very cute! I hope this works!!

YamahaGirl
08-25-2006, 12:52 PM
Ok, I have increased the amount he is eating, we now do 6-6.5cc every 5 hours and he sucks on green grapes, does not eat them, I also give him 1-2cc of plain yogurt (live cultures, no artificial sweetners), he seems to like the yogurt but cant really figure out how to eat it, it gets everywhere and sometimes up his nose, not good, so I give it to him with a larger syringe, slowly.

I am still putting Bitter End on him, he doesnt care. I am waiting for the Better Bitters to arrive in the mail, I hope THAT works better.

HE IS STILL SUCKLING on himself!!! :dono

My question is this:

How dangerous is it for him to be doing this? He urinates fine, but it just seems like his penis is stretched out, elongated? It is slightly red and a bit swollen, I dont think he is doing it as often but everytime I go down there to feed him he is attached to himself.

I am going to still try the sports tape and then the E-collar if necessary.

I just want to know how dangerous it is for him to do this? Does it have long term consequences?

Thanks for any info!
Heather

Critter_Queen
08-25-2006, 03:54 PM
I would try the sports tape or E-collar since nothing else is working...at least until you can get that other bitter stuff in the mail.

It must not be hurting him too much, though, since it's him suckling on himself...you'd think if it hurt or stung he'd stop.:tilt

Keep us posted!

thumper
03-02-2007, 04:21 AM
make sure to peel the grapes...they can choke on the skin and WATCH OUT FOR ANY LOOSE THREADS on ANYTHING you put in with him..bump almost choked out on a thread he "nursed" off of a towel....having been thru that I myself I would not even consider ANYTHING like terrycloth or GAUZE...BEWARE...:smiley_pirate thumper

susanw
03-02-2007, 03:34 PM
We have had babies that suck on themselves or each other, even the baby racoons do it. If their penis gets swollen and red, we just put some vaseline petroleum jelly on it. They do stop after awhile.