Keebler Needs Help

[CorgiLover]

Love me or hate me, matters not a bit to me but if it's really "all about the squirrels", I feel that a rehabber will jump in here and help me out.

Last week Keebler didn't come around for a couple of days and I just figured she had a boyfriend or something. When she showed up last Friday, she had 2 puncture wounds on her neck and a huge puncture wound on her right side. She let me dab at the blood a little but was gone before I could get the cage or the triple-antibiotic outside.

We didn't see her at all for almost a week and I was really worried that she had died. This morning she was at the back door and when I went out, I couldn't believe how bad the puncture in her side has become. There is alot of hair missing, the wound is oozing pus and blood. There is a very large "bubble" where the puncture site is. Is this a cyst? It's about the size of a very large grape and sits right over the rib area.

I took the small cage out and threw some walnuts in there and she jumped right in and I was able to latch the door. She's very thin so I imagine she hasn't eaten in a few days. She seems very nervous around me and she has never acted that way before.

I have already called the one actual vet that saw her a few months ago about her leg but that doc is out until Tuesday.

Can anyone tell me what to do until I can get her to the vet? Should I try to put triple anti-bac on it or will that even help at this point? I have heard that peroxide can make things worse. Is there anything at the pet store that might help?

As stated above, I am not here to "get into it" with any members. I am only looking for help for Keebler until she sees the vet. So I will respectfully request that if you have nothing nice or helpful to say, please refrain from posting.

[island rehabber]

Hi CL -- I am very sorry poor Keebler is in bad shape, but I'm glad you were able to recapture her! What you've described sounds like an abcess, or a bot fly warble. If it is oozing it's probably an abcess and she needs antibiotics because the infection will further debilitate her. The triple cream will help at least with skin infection, but make sure you leave the opening so it can drain continuously. If she will let you, applying very warm compresses on the abcess will also help, pushing the gunk out, etc. I know, yuck :shakehead. If you can get her to a vet and put her on a sulfa drug like TMZ or even Baytril, that would be great. (Remember that 'cillins like Amoxi or Clav can cause GI bleeding in squirrels.) In the meantime, I would give her really good stuff like veggies, fruits, even some warm Esbilac if you have any, just to build up her defenses again. Good luck and keep me posted!

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Can you also post some pictures, CL?

[CorgiLover]

Can you also post some pictures, CL?

I definitely want to do that. I just have to get her to calm down. She has always let me pet her, even after the release, but today she's only interested in one thing ... OUT!

What's the stuff you guys buy that calms squirrels down?

[Mountain Mama]

Rescue Remedy. You can probably find it at a health food store.

I'll be glad to take her, CL. Sent you a PM. :grouphug

[wheezer]

So sorry about Keebler. I know even a former pet will not want to be confined after being free so I would try to keep her as calm as possible. Put a towel or something over the cage and keep her in a very quiet place. Food and water may be all you can do until she calms. It does sound like an abcess. IR's advice is good. Best of luck and keep us posted:grouphug

[Mads]

Sorry to hear that Keebler isn't doing well. It's a tough time of year for squirrels I think . I've seen so many in the road the past week...I guess for the harvest. I also have had a Fab 5 with a huge growth on the side of her head that seemed like a huge absess, but there wasn't much I could do for her. A few of the others, have had a fair amount of battle wounds as well.

It's nervewrecking being a squirrel Mom....

[Buddy'sMom]

CL, mountainmama has great resources and will treat her like gold --- if she is close enough to you, that might be the best thing for Keebler -- an abcess like you describe should be treated ASAP with antibiotics. As you already know, Tuesday is a long ways away.

If getting Keebler to MM is not possible, might it be possible for the vet to call in a prescription to give her between now and Tuesday? (unless the office is closed altogether ....)

It might help to calm her to put a very light blanket or folded sheet over all but one side of her cage, so she feels more protected.

GNC carries Rescue Remedy, if there is one close to you.

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

Sorry about Keebs...good Luck CL...
We love you Keebs:grouphug
Walgreens has Rescue Remedy.

[CorgiLover]

I have a Petco near me. The vet's office I called is open but the vet is out. I will call them and ask if they can get a message to her to call me back. If they call in something, is it done the same way as for people? Meaning, do they call it in to a pharmacy? I have always picked up meds for the corgi at the vet's office, never the "people pharmacy".

Also, there is is place here called the county co-op and they sell all kinds of meds/supplies/feed for horses and they carry vaccinations for cats and dogs that you administer yourself. When I call them, what med should I ask for?

[Jackie in Tampa]

Heat too...will be comforting...the rice buddy will work well.

[Mountain Mama]

CL, squirrels like to burrow, and feel more protected when they are under something. If you can put an old tee shirt in her cage, she will probably like that. It will give her something to hide under and help keep her warm, too.

Wounds can lead to sepsis rather quickly. Do you have any antibiotics from your dogs around? If so, please PM me and we can figure out if they are compatible and calculate a dose.

[CorgiLover]

CL, squirrels like to burrow, and feel more protected when they are under something. If you can put an old tee shirt in her cage, she will probably like that. It will give her something to hide under and help keep her warm, too.

Wounds can lead to sepsis rather quickly. Do you have any antibiotics from your dogs around? If so, please PM me and we can figure out if they are compatible and calculate a dose.

I shredded an old soft towel and put in in the bottom of the cage along with food and a water bottle. She's only interested in chewing the bars right now and has been doing that for almost 2 hours. I am hoping that she will wear herself out and try to sleep and then I can get pictures and try to put a compress on the wound.

I don't have any antibiotics but there is a Walgreen's near me and I am going to call and see if they carry Rescue Remedy.

[TexanSquirrel]

I hope she's alright!

[Jackie in Tampa]

t shirt better than towel...the nails. If you should have to take fast action, a t shirt will not snag! Hang in there Keebs and CL.
The RR will be good and help relax your keeb.
Think about who may have cat pills that you know...call friends and ask for Baytril. Cats get it alot.

[Mountain Mama]

Please keep us posted.:grouphug

[FallensMommie]

I would get her into a very quiet place as Gamma suggested where there is no foot traffic or noises from everyday living....TV, radio etc.

I used Rescue Rememdy on Fallen when he broke his leg...I sprayed it on my finger and rubbed it on his ear. If you can I would put something topically on it like Neosporin without numbing agents...just plain old Neosporin until you can get her a antibiotic. The vets don't call in prescription like humans. The vet must see Keebs and then a antibiotic will be given to you at the time of visit. They may even give her a antibiotic injection and then you will then be given a oral antibiotics to give her.

Good Luck with Keebs!

[CorgiLover]

These are about the best pictures I can get for now; she's highly agitated. Every time I open the cage she bolts for the exit and scratches the bajeebies outta me so these will have to do. After I get the RR and get her calm, I will take more.

The grape-size thing on her side looks like an olive (big hole in the end). That's where the puncture wound was last week. And the hair is missing all around that, over her rib area and I noticed there is no longer hair on the underside of that arm or in the armpit. Is that much hair loss significant?

I will swap out the towel for a t-shirt. She's drinking water and ate a couple of walnuts. The puncture wounds on her neck seem to have healed okay, albeit there is some hair loss there, too.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Ladycamelot/Keebler/DSCF1808.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Ladycamelot/Keebler/DSCF1814.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Ladycamelot/Keebler/DSCF1805.jpg

[Mountain Mama]

Corgi, I'm worried that she may have been bitten by a cat. The bacteria in a cat's mouth is potentially fatal to squirrels, and these wounds look deep and angry.

Any luck with getting meds from a vet?

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

That almost looks like a bot fly. Can you try to get a better picture? Better yet, I'll see if I can find a picture for you to compare it to.

Check this out: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12366

Does it look like that?

[Pam]

Vets can call in prescriptions to drug stores. The script will be in the your pets name with your last name. I'd go ahead and ask for something for pain. Just in case the vet is not familiar with treating squirrels, ask one of the rehabbers for a list of safe meds to ask for.

My six year old pet squirrel has had abscesses. We used Metacam for pain, but not sure of the dosage. An abscess is not usually painful once it is open and draining.

[CorgiLover]

Corgi, I'm worried that she may have been bitten by a cat. The bacteria in a cat's mouth is potentially fatal to squirrels, and these wounds look deep and angry.

Any luck with getting meds from a vet?

I haven't heard from her yet and the line at the cop-op is still busy. I hate to leave the house in case they try to call.

When my husband and I first saw the wounds last week, we immediately thought "cat". The puncture marks on her neck looked as though something had her by the throat. We ran in to get the cage but she was gone that quick.

Why would one set of wounds heal and the other would not???

[CorgiLover]

That almost looks like a bot fly. Can you try to get a better picture? Better yet, I'll see if I can find a picture for you to compare it to.

Check this out: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12366

Does it look like that?

Wow, yes, it does look like that, only with pus draining, not dry.

So does this mean that this wound is from a pest and not an animal? The marks on her neck were definitely from an animal though but look much better now.

[FallensMommie]

Vets can call in prescriptions to drug stores all the time. The script will be in the your pets name with your last name. I'd go ahead and ask for something for pain. Just in case the vet is not familiar with treating squirrels, ask one of the rehabbers for a list of safe meds to ask for.

My six year old pet squirrel has had abscesses. We used Metacam for pain, but not sure of the dosage. An abscess is not usually painful once it is open and draining.


Will all vets call in to a store or is there some states where vets can't. With all the vets I have dealth with over the years here in Florida non will call into a store. They make me go in to the office to get it. If they haven't seen that animal then I have to take that animal in to be a established patient. Just asking as I have never dealth with a vet that will just call it in. If they have seen that animal they will just allow me to come in to pick up that med. I just don't know if different states have different laws. :dono

[jme2323]

poor keebler! good luck sorting that out, we hope for a full recovery!! i am glad you could catch her again to help her.

[Pam]

I found a vet! :thumbsup I pm'ed you, Corgi.

[CorgiLover]

Okay, so if this is "bot fly", does it need to be treated with antibiotics? Can bot fly abscesses kill squirrels or are they just painful and ugly? Do bot flies cause the initial injury or are they just opportunists that get in the open wound and cause more problems?

Secondly, if the wounds on the neck look good, but were caused by a cat, does she still need antibiotics?

I will spend whatever to get her better; I just want to make sure of what I need to do. I don't want to stress her with "overkill".

[Pam]

Will all vets call in to a store or is there some states where vets can't. With all the vets I have dealth with over the years here in Florida non will call into a store. They make me go in to the office to get it. If they haven't seen that animal then I have to take that animal in to be a established patient. Just asking as I have never dealth with a vet that will just call it in. If they have seen that animal they will just allow me to come in to pick up that med. I just don't know if different states have different laws. :dono

FM, it probably differs from state to state. Vets have pharmacies at their clinics so they usually don't need to call in prescriptions. It is nice during after hours to pick up the phone and call the drug store instead of making a trip to the clinic.

Vets have DEA # just like physicians.

[Sciurus1]

Okay, so if this is "bot fly", does it need to be treated with antibiotics? Can bot fly abscesses kill squirrels or are they just painful and ugly? Do bot flies cause the initial injury or are they just opportunists that get in the open wound and cause more problems?

Secondly, if the wounds on the neck look good, but were caused by a cat, does she still need antibiotics?

I will spend whatever to get her better; I just want to make sure of what I need to do. I don't want to stress her with "overkill".




The Vet will be able to answer your questions, as to whether this is from animal bites, bot fly, or both, as well as prescribe the appropriate medication, and treatment for her condition.

[Apple Corps]

It is hard to tell from the pics - but that does NOT look like a bot fly involvement to me. The larvae of the bot fly lives under the skin and produces a pronounced swelling until after it slithers out. What I see is a wound - though I - like others - am not sure.

Get to a vet.

[CorgiLover]

It is hard to tell from the pics - but that does NOT look like a bot fly involvement to me. The larvae of the bot fly lives under the skin and produces a pronounced swelling until after it slithers out. What I see is a wound - though I - like others - am not sure.

Get to a vet.

There is definitely a big "lump" there, like a large grape, very round.

[CorgiLover]

Okay, good news! The vet called me from her home. She's home with sick kids. (I actually feel really bad for bothering her.)

Anyhow, she asked me to email her the pictures and I did and she told me to look for an "opening" at the site of the wound, which I found. She said it is a bot fly den and that sometime in the next few weeks, the pest would emerge and that Keebler's wound would heal and she should be fine.

She said that squirrels usually get them in their nose and anus (UGH!), but they can develop anywhere that there is a break in the host's skin because they feed on lymphatic juices. (Anyone else here getting nauseous????)

She said I can bring her in on Tuesday and she can actually remove the bot fly or I can keep Neosporin on the site and that might aggravate the fly to emerge sooner. I was totally freaked but she assured me that it won't transfer to us or the dog. Still though ... totally got the heebee jeebies now!

She said it probably happened as a result of whatever injury she got earlier by a cat or whatever it was. She said that if the neck looks good then just wait until Tuesday but if she shows any signs of weakening or if the infection looks worse, call her and she will tell one of the other vets at her office to see me.

I will keep you guys apprised over the next few days. I am still going to get the RR and whatever the co-op offers for abscesses though ... just in case.

Thanks again to all of you!

[Buddy'sMom]

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Botfly is one of the least harmful-to-the-squirrel things it could have been. (Unfortunately, one of the MOST disgusting-for-humans-to-even-think-about! :yuck :yuck :yuck )

Hope you and Keebler are feeling better now.
:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[molly]

CorgiLover~
I'm so happy that you found out what was wrong with Keebler!!
Don't worry now...everything's going to be fine.
Thank goodness you have a great vet!
Please give us an update on her.
Take care~:Love_Icon
Molly~

[FallensMommie]

I've never seen a wild squirrel in my yard exhibit a drainage (blood/pus) from a bot fly :dono

A opening from a abcess drainage is what I was leaning on either from a cat or a hawk. Truthfully if it were me I would have my squirrel at the vet to be on the safe side, as it just doesn't look good; however that is just me and that is just my opinion. Maybe she will be okay but better to be safe than sorry especially if the wound needs to be cleaned out.

Good luck with her CL.

If it is a bot fly you should be able to see it in the opening. Do you see anything in the hole CL?

[Apple Corps]

If accurate - that is good news - full recovery. Many people have those damn things removed by the vet so the fuzzer does not have to go through the discomfort of letting it run its course.

[CorgiLover]

I do see a black "plug" or something in the hole that the vet told me to look for. She said the pus and drainage is probably from her scratching it and it is releasing lymphatic fluid. I asked about the blood and she didn't seem too concerned; says she sees it all the time and that the squirrels do fine after the pest leaves the host.

But for the record, I STILL have the heebee jeebies. *shivers* And I am, by no means, a "girly girl"!

[Apple Corps]

Again - they can be removed with one of the older "snake bite" suction devices. The hole can be covered with vaseline and when that horrible larvae starts squirming out to breathe - it is gently grabbed with some tweezers and removed - being careful not to break it apart.

As for the larvae - I'd feed it to one of those creatures from the Star Wars movies where it will suffer for 1000 years :jump

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thumbsup
My two cents...leave it alone!. Damage to larvae can cause serious infection...that is why they {sqs} leave it alone.
It is no big deal unless one area is afflicted with so many larvae that they pose loss of circulation to a limb.Then I would treat.
Maybe a light anti-biotic sauve for the secondary for now...just my opinion.:)
This is almost good news!:thumbsup :sanp3

[Apple Corps]

Good news for sure - compared to some of the alternative problems.

[FallensMommie]

Okay good, that relieves me to know you do see something. Yes I would leave it alone as to not cause any problems. Should drop out on it's own and then that area will heal.

They really are nasty looking....all the squirrels here had them this summer after Tropical Storm Fay...but I have never seen anything like Keebs.

Well let's hope this one drops out soon :yuck

[Sciurus1]

As Jackie in Tampa has noted correctly, if the larva is damaged while trying to remove it, it will emit a toxin, that can cause an infection, or worse. Damaging a larva while seeking to remove it is more likely to happen when the larva is still in the early stage of development, where it is still rather soft. As the larva matures, it will darken, and become tougher, and be easier to remove then without damaging it. Just as AC noted, this saves the squirrel from having to go through the painful experience of the last stage, where the worble becomes very inflamed and larva drops out. Following the technique AC has recommended for removal, putting vaseline over the breathing hole, causes the larva to back out to breath, at which time, the larva can be gently removed with a tweezers.

Yet, in this case, because of the presence of drainage coming from the wound, it is necessary that a trained animal specialist be allowed to give this animal a hands on evaluation, in order to confirm, or deny the presence of a bot fly infestation, and to assess the wound, before any attempt is made at removing what may, or may not be a bot fly larva. If it is then confirmed to be a bot, and is mature enough to easily remove, it can be removed without incident by the Vet, who would then irrigate, and medicate the area, and stitch up the wound, if necessary, as well as prescribe medications if needed.

[susanw]

Hi CL, nobody hates you! If you think you are grossed out now, wait until you see the larvae! We have removed botflies the way Apple Corps described and than started them on antibiotics as a safeguard. Just for peace of mind, I would put her on antibiotics anyway because you don't know what attacked her. Good luck! Seems to be alot of botflies this year.

[JLM27]

:wave123 Hi Corgilover, glad to see you here again. I'm sorry Keebler is having a hard time, but now she will get spiffed up by her Mommie and released again good as new. She's probably kind of mad at you now, though, huh?

[CorgiLover]

Okay, I found the RR but Keebs is sacked out so I don't think she needs it for now.

I went to the co-op and was explaining the situation and what I was looking for. The first guy could not recommend anything for a squirrel except "a hav-a-hart trap and a side of gravy". Hahahaha! Real funny, right? Yeah, that's what I said, too. :shakehead

Anyhow, after he walked off a woman came up to me and offered me something called "marboflaxocin" (sp?). She said she had some at home that she used on a rabbit with a tooth abcess and would bring it in tomorrow if I wanted to come pick it up. For free!

Has anyone heard of this and is it appropriate for treating squirrels?

[Apple Corps]

I probably would not use that at this time.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbofloxacin

[Frickster]

your vet sounds great to be willing to help from home even WITH sick kids lol. are you in an illegal state or no?

[Sciurus1]

This was posted on a Squirrel bot fly site. Not sure if it is a copy of what we have in our forum on this. What is of note, is that these larva live of the squirrel, not their blood supposedly, but their lympatic fluids. In a wound then they would be getting allot of nutrition off their host. Near the end the infestation, the warble becomes very inflamed, and causes pain when the larva moves to drop out!
------------------------------------------------------------------


Typically, only one larva occurs in each warble. The bot fly larva orients with its head (anterior) end situated toward the inside of the host, and its anal (posterior) end, which contains the two kidney-shaped respiratory spiracles, at the warble pore. Unlike many other arthropod parasites of vertebrates, Cuterebra spp. larvae presumably do not ingest blood but instead consume lymph fluid and possibly cellular debris and leukocytes of the host. Total larval development of the tree squirrel bot fly lasts three to four weeks, after which the mature larva emerges from the host by backing out through the warble pore, dropping to the ground, and burrowing into the soil where it pupates.

[CorgiLover]

Yep, that's what the vet said, too. About the lymphatic fluid, I mean.


Keebler is doing okay. She seems more p**ssed than anything else because she is inside instead of outside.

So then according to AC, I should NOT try the marbofloaxcin, right? I picked it up today but I'll hold off on giving it to her since she seems to be acting okay.

The Warble thing though is still freakin' me out. I moved her into the garage in case that thing decides to "hatch". Ackkk!

[Sciurus1]

Is the Vet planning on removing it, or are you planning on seeing him as you said next week?

[Apple Corps]

CL - that med is in the same family as Baytril - I'd monitor carefully and keep us posted on symptoms before treating.

The drug is reserved for some of the most severe infections.

Here is a link:

http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/vet/mrls/007996en.pdf


Lets see how things go for a bit...

[TexanSquirrel]

How is she today?

[Jackie in Tampa]

CL...how is Keebs...can we get a new pic?
:Love_Icon

[susanw]

I am a little concerned (ok alot) that this might not be a botfly, and is instead a puncture wound since she was attacked by something unknown and has other wounds on her body. It is so hard to tell by looking at a picture in this case. I worry about infection spreading thru her body and into her bones, which is fatal. Would not hurt to start her on atibiotics just in case!

[Apple Corps]

I'm a bit confused:

Is this a definite bot fly (which I thought it was)

OR

Is there some other injury as susanw mentioned?

[winky2]

Sounds like botfly to me. I would get to the vet first thing Monday morning and ask for a dose of CAPSTAR® (nitenpyram). I have used it several times for squirrels that come in with bad flea infestations and it works almost instantly and I have never seen any adverse reactions. I've read that it works on botflies too. Good luck!

[Mountain Mama]

Hello Everyone,

I have been in contact with Corgi and she wanted me to let you know that Keebler is doing well. She is going to see the vet in the morning and will post an update as soon as she can tomorrow.

Keep up the prayers and well wishes for Keebler!

[Jackie in Tampa]

Thanks MM:thumbsup
Good Luck CL and Keebs:grouphug

[susanw]

:thumbsup

[Pam]

CL, prayers for you and Keebler! :grouphug

Let me know if there is anything we can do to help you with Keebler.

[Apple Corps]

That should end a lot of speculation and provide clarity for treatment :thumbsup

[CorgiLover]

I only have a minute so this will be brief but hopefully informative.

I took Keebler to the vet this morning and it was indeed, botfly. The vet removed the nasty little thing and they will be holding Keebler until closing this afternoon when I can go pick her up.

I did not stay in the room but the vet said she did fine and should be good as new in a few days. She advised me to keep her caged for a few more days and NOT to give her the floxa ... floax ... uhhh, whatever that stuff was that lady gave me last week.

She said not to be surprised if it happens again and that next time there could be several "warbles" as opposed to just one.

She said Keebs leg looks great and that she seems like a healthy squirrel overall. She agreed that the marks on her neck do look like a cat got her but they healed fine and the hair may or may not come back completely.

If all goes as planned, on Sunday I'll set her free again.

It looks like, once again, this little gal has cheated death. (With a little help, of course.) *wink*

Thanks!

[island rehabber]

Good news, CL -- glad it wasn't something worse, and glad Keebs got a once-over from the vet, too. :thumbsup I am going to move this thread to Non-Life-Threatening so it won't trigger emails to rehabbers.

[FallensMommie]

Great News CL....Glad Keebs got seen and got that nasty thing removed.
She'll be ready to hit the high roads again come Sunday :thumbsup I know
she is ready now but she'll have to wait.

[Sciurus1]

Very glad to hear Keebler will be ok, and not have to endure the last nasty stage, where the tissue becomes inflammed, and the bot drops out. Nothing like a skilled and knowledgable Vet to deal with conditions that have more than one issue going on, like this was.

[susanw]

Great news CL! So happy she is ok!:thumbsup

[Apple Corps]

It was Marbofloxacin that we and the vet did not want you to use based on what we were hearing / seeing.

Great news - we all hope she has had her "bad luck" for awhile and can get on with enjoying life :D :D

And as for you :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Momma Squirrel]

Awesome news I am so happy for you both. And great to hear over all she is a happy healthy squirrel :thumbsup

another success story, great job everyone :thumbsup :bowdown

[Mountain Mama]

WONDERFUL NEWS!!!

Thanks for letting us know. Please be sure to keep us updated on her progress.

[Sarabi]

Just found this, and so glad to hear of a happy almost ending and that it's nothing too serious! Good call CL, so glad she came home for you to help her:Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

:thumbsup

[TexanSquirrel]

:thumbsup