This is Pam Lee's DD

[PamLeesDaughter]

Hey guys,
I am squirrel sitting for my mom and Peanut is doing great but as you might know I work at a vet's office and someone brought me a Squirrel he said that it had fur but it is a pinky. I am rotating a solution that one of the vets that I work for and esbilac. But she is not taking it very well. Does anyone have any suggestions??:wave123

[Sissy]

Hey, good to have you here. Is the baby dehydrated? They refuse feedings and fluids if they are. Can you do the pinch test and see if it is. What kind of solution are you giving it? Just trying to figure out whats going on with this baby.

[PamLeesDaughter]

It is not completely dehydrated, It is about 2 weeks old, and it is lactated ringers that he gave me, Do I need to postpone the esbilac until the baby is completely rehydrated??

[Sissy]

Also, if it's truely a pinkie, it may not take more then 1/2cc at a time.

[PamLeesDaughter]

that is what my mom just said, but how often should I use the lactated rings and I just did a TINY bit of esbilac so can I try to rehydrate now or wait?

[Sissy]

How much are you able to get her to take?

[Sissy]

You can use the LRS in between her normal feedings. Make sure you dilute the Esbilac to the 1 to 4 ratio for the first few feedings, then work your way up to 3 to 1. Can you see any apparent injuries, or bruising? Make sure the baby is warm while your feeding and the formula is warm. Some like it warmer then others and will refuse it if it cools off.

[PamLeesDaughter]

on a one CC syringe she took about .1 of the esbilac and I cannot get any of the LR in her but I am scared that I am going to squeeze her to hard when I am holding her but she is a squirmy little girl

[PamLeesDaughter]

the man that brought her to me said that she has fallen 2 times that he knows of (I think the first time they reunited) but I have examined her well and do not see any bruising or other injuries, right now I have her is a plastic box with a low heating pad under two blankets

[Sissy]

If you know how, you can Sub-q her the LRS. They can be very squirrmy when they are small. Have you gotten her to go potty yet? She may not go until she is hydrated.

[PamLeesDaughter]

if SQ you mean by needle I do not have the means to do that right now. It I can not get her to take I can call the vet and get him to do it (we have an emergency line at work) The only needle I have is a 18 guage I do believe and it is BIG. But I will try with the syringe again and yes she deficated and it was about 1/2 an inch long and brown

[Sissy]

Yes, an 18 gauge is to big. If she isn't to dehydrated you can start slowly with the Esbilac then in between try the LRS again. You will need to feed her 5% of her weight. She may not take that much in the beginning but she will work her way up to it. How often are you feeding or offering her fluids. Good deal on the poops. I wouldn't SQ her unless she becomes more dehydrated.

[bcguy92]

OMG dont use an #18 gauge needle this is used for drawing up viscous {thick} fluids not to admister them. You can get a insulin syringe from any pharmacy in 100 units which equals 1cc and give sub cutaneous fluid just behind the shoulders. The needle is just the right size for giving sub c fluid .Although the fuzzer prob wont like, it u have to prob get 1 person to hold the fuzzer and one person to administer on a 45% angle and only go in prob about a few mm. Hope this helps.

[Buddy'sMom]

:Welcome You are in very good hands. :thumbsup

They sometimes take a while to get the hang of syringe feeding -- all they know is "This is NOT MOM!! :hissyfit " :Love_Icon :Love_Icon Just take it slow -- and you will both get used to it. :)

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[PamLeesDaughter]

Ok now I have gotten her to urinate quite a bit and deficate, but I dont know if I am being parinoid but I THINK that I am hearing clicking. I know that is bad should I just call one of our small animal doctors?

[Sissy]

Hold her chest to your ear and see if you can hear it in her lungs or her nose. They do make a type of clicking noise sometimes, but it isn't from their lungs. If it is a continuous click with every breath then we might need to worry. Mine will click a little then when they calm down I don't hear it any more.
Sometimes they squirm alot when they have to potty.

[tatcat]

:wave123 hey pl's daughter, :Welcome ...good luck with the lil one....glad to have ya with us!!!:jump

[TexanSquirrel]

:Welcome Best of luck to you!!!

[PamLeesDaughter]

Hold her chest to your ear and see if you can hear it in her lungs or her nose. They do make a type of clicking noise sometimes, but it isn't from their lungs. If it is a continuous click with every breath then we might need to worry. Mine will click a little then when they calm down I don't hear it any more.
Sometimes they squirm alot when they have to potty.


Ok, and if it is in the lungs the small animal diagnostic vet that i called said that I can give .1cc of Clavamox once every 12 hours. She said that Baytrill can stunt their growth plates in some cases when used on young animals.

[island rehabber]

Hi PL'sDD!! Tonight I'm Punkin's babysitter here in New York...she sure is a cutie and it was great meeting your mom & dad & family tonight. Anyway, don't panic with the little pinkie. Take it very very slowly....make sure what you are giving her is almost hot. Insert the nipple under the side of her muzzle and drip the liquid in -- Ringers if that's what you're hydrating with -- and even 1cc at a time is excellent for a baby that size. They do make little clicky sucky noises and it's not necessarily pneumonia so don't panic. Don't worry about sub-q;ing or meds until you've given her time to get used to you, the syringe, and the rehydration fluids. SLOOOWWWLY is the key when you're dealing with pinkies. :thumbsup

[bcguy92]

What do u mean by .1cc ? .10 of a cc . Again u can draw this up using a tuberciline syringe or insulin syringe. Since both of these have needles on the end just draw up the right amount and put the amount in another container and use the 1 cc syringe with no needle to draw it up again and administer. Good Luck

[PamLeesDaughter]

yes I meant .10 CC, but I will wait. It is nice to meet everyone by the way. Dr. Royal told me to go to the office so now I am set with Tuberculin syringes and Clavomox in the case that I do need it. and maybe I am panicing so I will wait on the meds and SQ. I am new at this other than watching my mom. Pinkies are scary (not literally) but she makes me nervous

[bcguy92]

Ok good luck. Waiting is ok Clavomox has to be kept in the refrigirator and expires in about 7-10 days if i remember correctly and u will just draw up to the first #1 on the syringe. It will be # 1-10

[island rehabber]

Me again....sorry to be a pain, but try NOT to ever use 'cillin drugs on rodents. They often cause GI bleeds. The Sulfatrim or Baytril drugs are more effective and Baytril is perfectly safe for SHORT TERM use. The study your vet was referring to was concerned with long-term Baytril use in Great Dane puppies :shakehead.

[PamLeesDaughter]

Me again....sorry to be a pain, but try NOT to ever use 'cillin drugs on rodents. They often cause GI bleeds. The Sulfatrim or Baytril drugs are more effective and Baytril is perfectly safe for SHORT TERM use. The study your vet was referring to was concerned with long-term Baytril use in Great Dane puppies :shakehead.

So do not use the clavamox? oh it is Amoxicillon I forgot that thank you!!

[tatcat]

omg is pamlee's daughter not listening to ya...she asked about Amoxicillon ...

[tatcat]

sry pam lee dd, i was just reading what ir said...not to start trouble..i am confused here...

[PamLeesDaughter]

this baby will still not take the LRs. I am going to have to go to sleep but I do not konw how I am doing it wrong. I have the baby warm and the LRs warm and she will not open her mouth.

no Tatcat I am going to listen to IR, but I did not realize that the Clavamox was made up of Amoxicillon, and that is what a vet told me to give. I am going to listen to the Rehabillitator

But if I NEED to SQ this baby I can call one of the vets to help me. I know they will! yall just tell me and I can get it done, and I am trying to get pics but I am exhausted!!

[Buddy'sMom]

How are you and baby doing this morning? Hopefully, after some sleep and another go of it, she will be more cooperative. It really does take them a bit to learn about the syringe and new kinds of liquids. :Love_Icon Just stay calm -- lots of deep breaths! -- and take it slow. If you can get a drop in her mouth, she will swallow.

Here is a very helpful post that IR has put together for caring for pinkies. You are already doing this stuff, of course, but I thought it might be some helpful reinforcement for the patience part :)

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug


Rolo02, :Welcome and thanks for saving those cuties. I'm going to repeat what I posted the other day for another person here who took in her first pinky squirrels:

PINKY SQUIRRELS: THE FOUR MAGIC WORDS

WARMTH: a heating pad on low, under half their container (not under THEM) is best. Plastic tubs or terrariums are good because the environment is more humid and their skin doesn't dry out. When feeding a pinky, if your hands are warm you can use tissue paper to wrap and hold him...if your hands are cold, WARM a cloth or glove before picking up the pinky or you will chill him instantly.

HYDRATION: pinkies need hydration in the form of formula -- or Pedialyte in the beginning -- at least every 2.5 hrs. This means getting up at least once during the night. I get up twice, and it still means they will go 3.5 hrs sometimes without food but it's usually ok. If they look flat and skinny when you get up to feed them, you are not feeding OFTEN enough. Sorry kids, it's a rough gig those first 2 weeks.

CONSISTENCY: consistent heat.....consistent feedings....if your schedule is going to make you sporadic or unpredictable in caring for these teeny-weenies, give them to someone who has the time to care for them properly. If you don't have a heating pad, GET ONE, without an auto shut-off. Microwave disks are too unpredictable for pinkies and may cook them. Hot water bottles don't last nearly long enough for these fragile babies.

PATIENCE: Feed pinkies slo-o-o--owly. Very slowly. Teeny drop by teeny drop, preferably with a 0.5 (1/2) cc syringe or a 1cc at the LARGEST. Use a nipple attachment for best results. Go very, very slowly. If it takes you 15 minutes to get half a cc of formula into a pinky, yer doin' it perfectly. This is how we avoid aspiration, the #1 cause of death in pinkies and the reason why "some say" there is only a 50% success rate in saving them.

Good luck! PM me if you need any more info.....

[PamLeesDaughter]

thank you!! I was tired and frustrated at 3 in the morning. she took only a tenth of a CC and after me handling her trying to get her mouth open she just stopped and fell a sleep in my hand I did not want to wake her up so i took pictures so yall can tell me if she is in really bad shape.

[Buddy'sMom]

Question for the rehabbers: Can she put a few drops of juice (apple? cranberry?) into the Lactated Ringers to make it taste better? Or a little pancake syrup? (PLDD: these are sometimes suggested for OLDER babies to make it more palatable, but I'm not as sure if it would be OK for a pinkie so you should get confirmation from someone else before trying this.)

:grouphug

[PamLeesDaughter]

OH MY GOODNESS!!! :jump After the baby woke up I reheated the water to warm the formula back up and she took .40 CC there for that is .50 CC in one feeding is that enough? I hope so because that is all that she wanted, and I have gotten the hang of the pottying. She is real easy with that. She weighed 25 grams last night.

[Buddy'sMom]

:wott :wott :wott

Wonderful news!! :wahoo
[leaving the question of the numbers to those more experienced .... except that by the 5% rule, (5% of 25 gm) it would be 1.25 cc --- but from where you started last night, I would think this is a very good step!]

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[PamLeesDaughter]

http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq94/MrsDantrellMoore/11.jpg

this is the picture that I took

[PamLeesDaughter]

Does she look healthy? How old do you guys think?

[island rehabber]

From what I can see, she looks good PLDD :). She's less than 1 week old, I think. Has her little umbilical stub fallen off already? That usually happens at 10 days or so, but she looks younger. From what you just posted it appears you are on the right track. Don't panic -- you're doing great!

[Momma Squirrel]

PLDD you are doing a GREAT job, you are in the best of hands possible. Your mom will be so proud of you and so are we :wott

[island rehabber]

PLDD, it might be good to pick up some fruit-flavored Pedialyte today for hydration in between feedings. I've never met a pinkie who didn't like it, warmed of course, and you can slip her some in between formula feedings if she starts to look dehydrated (skinny) or loses her appetite. :)

[PamLeesDaughter]

ok :thankyou Thank you so much I will do that

[PamLeesDaughter]

O MY GOSHNESS!! Earlier I got her to take .50 CC of Fruit pedialyte and I just got her to take 1 WHOLE CC of Esbilac finally. She is pottying very good but it is still dark. I am hoping that she will just get better!! Thank you so much every one!!!

[island rehabber]

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup keep it going, sweetie -- you are doing beautifully.

[Buddy'sMom]

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

If you mean dark poop, it starts out darker (from being fed by Mom) and gets lighter with a few days of Esbilac formula. If you mean her pee -- it should get lighter now that you're getting more fluids in her. :)

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[island rehabber]

O MY GOSHNESS!! Earlier I got her to take .50 CC of Fruit pedialyte and I just got her to take 1 WHOLE CC of Esbilac finally. !

By re-hydrating her, you've restored her appetite. I know it seems odd, you'd think that by giving her the Pedialyte she'd be full and not want to take any formula, but it has exactly the opposite effect. :)

[PamLeesDaughter]

Apple Died just a minute ago