MBD ROCKY SEIZURE

[Jackie in Tampa]

IR, someone help me....rock had a bad seizure...I could tell it was coming...I had given him neocalglucon this morning...it is bottom of bottle...i don't know if it is mostly sugar or calcium...script calls for.3cc so I gave him.2cc in case it was calcium strong..
he has been fragile and jerky today, i could tell it was coming...
my vet leaves at 2pm eastern...2.5 hours from now.
Susan is receptionist to speak to about meds if we need to. Dr Gray...
i can't loose my rocky....
I am so afraid the car ride will put him over the edge into another seizure.
I have stuff here...metacam
cacium 600mg
calcium d4 or d3??/
tums
he is now calm and exhausted...
what do i do???

[luvs squirrels]

Oh, I am sorry. Sending many prayers your way.

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[jme2323]

big hugs for you and rocky. i hope he will be ok...
:grouphug

[skye]

In My Prayers
Jackie, do you think it was a seizure caused by MBD? If so, crush the calcium 600mg pill, put it in water (or something he likes to drink, and get it into Rocky right away. I'll post a diet you should keep for a week.

I took your info off the board. I have posted for people to contact me.

MBD Treatment-Week One

1. Provide emergency calcium. You can buy calcium carbonate supplement pills (600 mg) at any drugstore.

Dosage: Day 1--600 mg of calcium. Then 400 mg per day for a total of 3,000 mg of calcium for the first week.

How to give the calcium: The first day, crush up the pill in water and give by mouth with an eyedropper, one drop at a time, until he has taken the full day’s dosage. After that, if the squirrel is still eating well, crush up the pills and put in his food: yogurt, avocado, banana, even peanut butter will work. If squirrel won’t take the calcium in food, continue with the eyedropper.

[b]2. Provide natural sources of Vitamin D: mealworms, mushrooms, eggs, dairy products (especially yogurt--make sure the label says the yogurt contains Vit D).

3. Provide a liquid vitamin supplement. Buy the kind for rats and mice—available at any pet store. Dose per directions on the label.

4. Provide sources of Vitamin C. Oranges are good, but red or green bell peppers are the highest.

5. Eliminate all nuts, seeds and other unhealthy foods. Feed only foods from the recommended Diet.

6. Introduce a balanced rodent chow. try KayTee Forti-Diet for Rats and Mice. I recommend this because it is widely available at pet stores and it is tasty.

7. Follow the recommended Diet for Pet Squirrels. Make sure your squirrel is getting foods from every category.

Note: The emergency MBD treatment is calcium and Vit D. Changing your squirrel's diet will take time; he will have to learn to like the new foods.


We'll do all we can to save PRECIOUS Rocky. MANY prayers going out to both of you. :grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Buddy'sMom]

I've spoken to Jackie.

My first thought was same as GB's. yes, Rocky has been battling MBD for some time, has his ups and downs. Rocky had a .2 cc dose of NeoCalglucon a couple hours ago. (Rocky has been getting .3 cc NeoC. most days already; she gave him .2 today cause it was the bottom of the bottle and she was unsure if it might have more settled calcium and didn't want to over do.) This is a Pediatric CA-sugar suspension. I have tried to find the mg CA per dose online but can't. If anyone can that would be helpful.

So as not to OVER dose the calcium, I suggested that Jackie start with just HALF the 600mg tablet.

He's quiet and calm now. (Jackie, not so much)

If anyone else has suggestions, pls post them!


:grouphug

[island rehabber]

Jackie I will PM you my phone # if you want to call me. I'm thinking it's best to leave him dark warm and quiet for now, as others have suggested. Let me ask you, though: sometimes our eye and instincts pick up things which our brains don't process right away......what was it that made you "know" he was going to have a seixure? You seemed very clear about knowing it was coming. Something about him was different? This may help you to figure out what he needs. :grouphug

[squirrel princess]

Keep us posted:poke thinking of you and Rocky:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Sciurus1]

Metacam is for inflamation and pain, not seisures to my knowledge, so that wont' help. If you have to take him into the Vet, put some Rescue Remedy on the inside portion of his outer ear, not in his mouth. The alcohol will evaporate from his skin when used externally, a better choice for a squirrel having seisures, easier to administer, not having to put it in his mouth, and no possbile interaction from the alchohol then.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Metacam is for inflamation and pain, not seisures to my knowledge, so that wont' help. If you have to take him into the Vet, put some Rescue Remedy on the inside portion of his outer ear, not in his mouth. The alcohol will evaporate from his skin when used externally, a better choice for a squirrel having seisures, easier to administer, not having to put it in his mouth, and no possbile interaction from the alchohol then.
Thank you all..he is quiet and he is the calmest sq on TSB...never will nedd RR, but thanks Sciurus 1....
it lasted 45 seconds..
he is only getting 80-100mg daily in his calcium sup...NEOCALGLUCON#15
putting him car will freak him out ...the noise will put him over the edge, so i'm not sure if i'm ready to o that...
it may not even be created from his MBD...not sure...has had only 3 seizures before...one year ago. He was found at that time to have calcium so low it did not register and an injection was done, and the prescription of neo...

I am so scared to put him in the noisey car ride...but scared to not do something..

IR...he gets real jerky and frightened looking/acting...
edgey...mentally FRAGILE... shifty eyes..looks to me for security, as though terrified...
ty guys


BsMom-he is getting more awake-ish....

[Buddy'sMom]

Thanks for the info, all (incl tele with IR).

fyi on the NeoCalglucon, a vet tech at one of Jackie's vet's offices provided info: The suspension is 336 mg/cc so she estimated .3 cc is about 100 mg and .2 cc about 80 mg. So he definitely can get more calcium today.

Jackie is trying to arrange a quick vet visit to get bloodwork done to give some clearer guidance as to what he needs. Either she or I will post later.......

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

:) I see Jackie beat me posting. :)

[island rehabber]

Regarding stress: Jackie I'm passing along something my vet, Dr P, reminds us rehabbers of all the time. Stress is a part of life. You can stress an animal by bringing it for treatment, but then it gets well. Or you can do nothing, because you're afraid of the stress, and the animal becomes worse and there is MORE stress on it, but now it does not get well. SO: either the animal is stressed but gets better, or left alone to get worse which results in MORE stress. Which path would you pick? :D

[foxsquirrels]

Jackie, please ask your vet if you should give him phenobarbital for the seizures when he has them, as well as, neocalglucon for the MBD. I called the lady that I ask for advice about Rocky. She explained how calcium affects all parts of the body. I hate to write it all down here but I will call you and explain what she said to me. When there is no Emergency, I'll post it for everyone to read. My phone numbers, if you need them, should be listed in our contact rehabber section. If they are not GB can give them to you.

[sparky]

I'm wishing Rocky and his human family the very best. Say hello to Fred for me Jackie.

We're thinking of you,

Sparky and the gang

[Jackie in Tampa]

Thank you All...
I have Rocky stable it seems....I am so scared...dang sqs...
Have spoke to several people abouut different causes and my narrow opinion is not enough...so I have made appt for 2pm tomorrow for bloodwork. No other option. He only had one 45 second seizure...,
I realized today that his daily calcium sup is 80-100mg, to me that does not sound like enough:dono
He is a one tooth sq and has a hard time eating and is also as picky as any other sq here...although he did eat some fresh fig and romaine. He drank just alittle and did pee.
4Skwerls cookies are not his favorite:nono
so how am I ever going to get calcium in him?
I will ask the vet...but...
GB that mbd diet is a godsend if it is possible.
Rocky does not climb or hop, so he does not extend himself actively.I don't think he builds up an appetite..so little exercise...how to get enough proper food in him.
I was also told today by vet tech...that she learned at a vet confrence two years ago, the sheild over our OTT lights, FSL lights is restricting the uvs, and to take plastic dome off! FYI
I just cked on him...he seems TOO subdued...he wakes up, but really does not want to be bothered...he is not grrr attitude at all, he is so still and only opens his eyes when I pursue him to. He is warm and breathing seems good.
He does not want to come out or be held.
Rocky is six.
He is so calm now.
He ate that bug two days ago! yucky cicada. I am answering questions that were asked, I know that sounds funny and out of place.
Super sensitive to noise or anything fast/sudden...then jerky...terrorified acting. This happens from time to time, especially if i forget to give him cal sup. After I calm him and give him cal, he rests and then is ok...so that is why I am thinking calcium shortage. Anyone else got anything to add.
I also gave him yogrut and esbilac which he detested..i may have got 1.5-2 cc down...should I try again? To give him more?
Fox sq suggested Nutrical/puppy as another daily source and a low blood sugar gel to have on hand. I do not have either, so will have to get.ty.
Be back...sorry so long

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

oh..jacki...im just now seeing this... :eek: now i understand your post..with your being able to type with one hand and rocky on your lap...
im so..sorry..poor baby..
im glad he's just resting now....
kisses to rocky..hugs..to you:grouphug
rachel n bean:grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

Thank you All...
I have Rocky stable it seems....I am so scared...dang sqs...
Have spoke to several people abouut different causes and my narrow opinion is not enough...so I have made appt for 2pm tomorrow for bloodwork. No other option. He only had one 45 second seizure...,
I realized today that his daily calcium sup is 80-100mg, to me that does not sound like enough:dono
He is a one tooth sq and has a hard time eating and is also as picky as any other sq here...although he did eat some fresh fig and romaine. He drank just alittle and did pee.
4Skwerls cookies are not his favorite:nono
so how am I ever going to get calcium in him?
I will ask the vet...but...
GB that mbd diet is a godsend if it is possible.
Rocky does not climb or hop, so he does not extend himself actively.I don't think he builds up an appetite..so little exercise...how to get enough proper food in him.
I was also told today by vet tech...that she learned at a vet confrence two years ago, the sheild over our OTT lights, FSL lights is restricting the uvs, and to take plastic dome off! FYI
I just cked on him...he seems TOO subdued...he wakes up, but really does not want to be bothered...he is not grrr attitude at all, he is so still and only opens his eyes when I pursue him to. He is warm and breathing seems good.
He does not want to come out or be held.
Rocky is six.
He is so calm now.
He ate that bug two days ago! yucky cicada. I am answering questions that were asked, I know that sounds funny and out of place.
Super sensitive to noise or anything fast/sudden...then jerky...terrorified acting. This happens from time to time, especially if i forget to give him cal sup. After I calm him and give him cal, he rests and then is ok...so that is why I am thinking calcium shortage. Anyone else got anything to add.
I also gave him yogrut and esbilac which he detested..i may have got 1.5-2 cc down...should I try again? To give him more?
Fox sq suggested Nutrical/puppy as another daily source and a low blood sugar gel to have on hand. I do not have either, so will have to get.ty.
Be back...sorry so long

[JudyB]

Oh Jackie, my best thoughts and wishes go out to you and Rocky. I hope and pray you and the vet can figure this out.:grouphug

[Mars]

Slow down. Deep breathe. Can discribe for me what his siezure looks like?? What does he do?

You can get him some honey water that may help. Just a few drops of honey in some warm water and give him about 3 to 5 cc. That will bring his blood sugar up.

[LynninIN]

:grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

4Skerwls is on the phone now...
recommends me giving 250mg of calcium citrate with100iu of d3 and 300 mg calcium carbonate..
I am guessing he had approx 150mg from Neocalglucon, plus 2cc of esbilac and yogrut...I think I already said that...duh
ty be back

[LynninIN]

4Skerwls is on the phone now...
recommends me giving 250mg of calcium citrate with100iu of d3 and 300 mg calcium carbonate..
I am guessing he had approx 150mg from Neocalglucon, plus 2cc of esbilac and yogrut...I think I already said that...duh
ty be back
Sounds like a good plan. You probably already know this but flashing lights, bright lights, loud sounds and TV watching (is his cage near a TV?) can induce a seizure if already prone to them.

[Jackie in Tampa]

Slow down. Deep breathe. Can discribe for me what his siezure looks like?? What does he do?

You can get him some honey water that may help. Just a few drops of honey in some warm water and give him about 3 to 5 cc. That will bring his blood sugar up.
he looks at me terrified and starts twitching...arms go up and he gets tense and starts convulsing ...his mouth is open and he is hard...his body flails.
He is now up and outof his basket eating romaine
be back...ty Hello Mars!
Ty FS and Leigh and BsMOM

[Jackie in Tampa]

Sounds like a good plan. You probably already know this but flashing lights, bright lights, loud sounds and TV watching (is his cage near a TV?) can induce a seizure if already prone to them.
Yes this is exactly right...anything load may send him into one...
He gets close to seizure IMO, more often than I like...I can always tell if the tv is going to be too much...he will start to twitch/jerk, so I 'll immediately take him back to his quiet roomm, my room. It is cool/quiet there and he likes it. I just today actually got the exact mg of calcium that his suppliment has in it...80-100mg daily...not enough.

[Mars]

I may be able to offer some homeopathic support. Let me do some research for you tonight and see what I can come up with. I'm still finishing up at the office for the day so it will be quite late before I can post. Hang in there. :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

I may be able to offer some homeopathic support. Let me do some research for you tonight and see what I can come up with. I'm still finishing up at the office for the day so it will be quite late before I can post. Hang in there. :grouphug
thank you..

[Jackie in Tampa]

the vitamin floats and won't break down:sanp3

[LynninIN]

Put it in a baggie, pad with towel then hit it with a hammer. That's how I do it.

[Jackie in Tampa]

oh it's pulverized and still floats:dono

[Jackie in Tampa]

i put it in stoneybrook vanilla yogrut....hope he is in an persuasive mood

[foxsquirrels]

Jackie, if you are crushing a calcium tablet and it does not dissolve in water, I've been told that it will not absorb into the gut well either. Has anyone else heard that?

[Jackie in Tampa]

Jackie, if you are crushing a calcium tablet and it does not dissolve in water, I've been told that it will not absorb into the gut well either. Has anyone else heard that?
I was trying calcium citrate with D3, when I bougt it the lady said it was a more refined calcium????and was easy to digest...go figure!
Going to feed babies before I try to give with the yogrut...
should I try the straight calcium carbonate without the d3 and see how that does??/

[foxsquirrels]

I'd try whatever the lady at the pharmacy said was good and easy to digest. I may be totally wrong.

[Buddy'sMom]

The gut can handle things that dissolve in water and also some things that don't. For example, there are foods that will dissolve in oil, but not water. We eat and digest both kinds of foods. And also foods that don't really dissolve in either (I guess the stomach acids get to those).

So not dissolving in water doesn't NECESSARILY mean that they can't be absorbed. (Though certainly there would be things that don't dissolve and cannot be digested at all)

However, I think it IS true that things that reach our gut already dissolved in liquid -- or which dissolve very readily -- will get absorbed easier and faster. :)

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

maybe she said absorbed now that I think about it...would absorbed and digest be the same?
Going to ck on Rock.

[Buddy'sMom]

maybe she said absorbed now that I think about it...would absorbed and digest be the same?
Going to ck on Rock.
for present, practical purposes ... yes, the same. :)

[foxsquirrels]

:thankyou :thumbsup :thankyou :thumbsup

[LynninIN]

The Ph of the stomach is different than plain water. The stomach acid will break it down in the stomach so it can be absorbed through the intestines.

[4skwerlz]

Yes, the calcium pills don't mix well with water. You add just a small amount of water and crush it well, and stir it well. That doesn't mean they aren't absorbed by the body though. In the past, there was an issue with certain vitamin pills not dissolving properly in the stomach, but that was due to using the wrong coating or compressing the pills too much during manufacture--these problems have been fixed in virtually all vitamins.

A pill crushed in water will certainly be absorbed fine.

[Jackie in Tampa]

i could not get it to disolve...it almost rejected the water...so I put it in about 4 cc of vanilla yogrut and he has almost taken half not happily...and started to get edgey jerky...made me nervous,,,so gave him a syringe of water, tried to wipe his face and he jumped on my back and peed and demanded home/his bed...
so he is still real fragile and on the edge of another...I hope I got enough in him and it starts absorbing fast. I will force more on him in a little while.
FYI, contents of one calcium citrate 250mg and D3 100mg was added to 4 or 5 cc yogurt..it sat for 20 minutes before I gave him almost half.

[Jackie in Tampa]

4S, I am charging my battery....be good in 15 minutes.

[Sciurus1]

Just a note for reference. Our board members had a thread on calcium, as to what is the most easily absorbable. I am no expert, but I do know of a form that is a liquid emulsion made by Lifetime, that is available in health stores. The new formulation has Vitamin C. and D added to the Calcium Citrate, so it complete, as well as convenient. I would check with the members in the know on all the ingredients, and as how much to offer a squirrel as a daily dose. It tastes pretty good, so a squirrel might take it by spoon.

[skye]

God Bless and please know I am praying for the little guy:grouphug

[luvs squirrels]

Jackie, you and Rocky are in my prayers. I know how scary it is when your little baby is not well. I am praying so hard that he will be feeling better soon.

God Bless and be with you both.

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Jackie in Tampa]

Good morning and thanks all.
Mars, I printed out info...will take with me to the market. Thank you:thumbsup
LS and Skye...:grouphug thanks for all the prayer and comfort:grouphug
Leigh, ty and Henry is NOT a monster...I met him a couple times an he is awesome and handsome:D
S1 thanks for the info...4S do you know about this suppliment????
Lynn, IR and Gail...:bowdown
Hugs and kisses to BsMom...my BSQFF...:D
We are doing better this morning...at 4 am I gave him hazelnuts...because he wanted them so badly. He needed something solid.
Just a minute ago, I gave him a slice of avacodo laced with cal cit with d3, my goal is to get as much calcium in him as possible...will be hard work...
I have no idea how I will be able to do this for life:thinking
Gotta get the Rock to eat 4S cookies!:Love_Icon
I hate the thought of starving him to do it...:shakehead
He did turn his nose up at the avacodo...maybe he'll change his attitude and get sensible/hungry:) I will ck in 10 minutes...
gotta take care of teenage boy sqs...Booboo and Sugar Bear.
I will make more vanilla Stoneybrook cocktail...also laced with calcium.
I have 2pm appt...but not sure it is worth going?????
If I have boosted his level of calcium, it is not going to show acurate reading of his low yesterday. And I do believe the seizure was a calcium deficiency.
If someone thinks otherwise and that I must take him...I will reconsider.
They will do bloodwork...if calcium is low, I am sure they will give injection.
Some members here have expressed this can be dangerous and that absorbtion thru the tummy/digestive system is far easier and safer...:dono
I appreciate all that has been offered.
Thanks to all the wonderful TSB support!:Love_Icon
Be back in a few:)

[squirrel princess]

Mommy knows best:thumbsup you know your guy better than anyone so do what you think is best:poke

[FallensMommie]

Sorry you are going through this. Many prayers have been said and many more to continue.

[Jackie in Tampa]

No to the avacodo...but yes to romaine with white sprinkles:D
Still sound sensitive, shakey/wobbley will sitting eating...????not REAL bad though....I will keep it quiet here today! Will try yogrut in awile. He will be very stubborn and will have to be forced, but I don't know what else to do.

[I Love Lucy]

I just read this thread and it reminded me of a squirrel I received last year who was having severe MBD Seizures. He had become used to a very unhealthy diet of fruit and nuts and had also been weaned 3-4 weeks to early. It was very difficult to get him to eat healthy foods. I discovered how useful molasses can be. Squirrels seem to love it and it has calcium.(Unfortunately I do not know the exact amount. Different kinds have different vitamin contents.) I used it to bring him and many other squirrels out of MBD and hypoglycemic seizures. (I also find it a good appetite stimulator for weak, dehydrated and emaciated squirrels who otherwise won't eat.). I've found molasses helpful to put extra calcium in and put it on favorite foods. I have also used organic almond paste to hide calcium.

I hope one of these suggestions help get calcium in Rocky. I know how scary MBD seizures can be. Just keep be patient and keep trying different ways to get calcium in him.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I just read this thread and it reminded me of a squirrel I received last year who was having severe MBD Seizures. He had become used to a very unhealthy diet of fruit and nuts and had also been weaned 3-4 weeks to early. It was very difficult to get him to eat healthy foods. I discovered how useful molasses can be. Squirrels seem to love it and it has calcium.(Unfortunately I do not know the exact amount. Different kinds have different vitamin contents.) I used it to bring him and many other squirrels out of MBD and hypoglycemic seizures. (I also find it a good appetite stimulator for weak, dehydrated and emaciated squirrels who otherwise won't eat.). I've found molasses helpful to put extra calcium in and put it on favorite foods. I have also used organic almond paste to hide calcium.

I hope one of these suggestions help get calcium in Rocky. I know how scary MBD seizures can be. Just keep be patient and keep trying different ways to get calcium in him.
Thank you for these great ideas. Molasses is a great source and alot of people have come forward with this.
:thinking Organic almond paste...I'll ck that out! Wondering if that is the same thing MADS uses...almond butter...thanks again!:Love_Icon

[Buddy'sMom]

Good ideas! Molasses is especially good as an instant/emergency source of calcium! :thumbsup

ILL, could you clarify on the "almond paste"? Is it the whitish ground almond paste sold in a tube for baking (marzipan and other almond goodies)? Or do you mean (brownish) almond butter in a jar (akin to peanut butter)?

FYI, "almond butter" seems to be popping up in our grocery stores -- sometimes on the peanut butter shelf, and sometimes with the organic foods.

:grouphug

[I Love Lucy]

Sorry, It is almond butter. I found it the organic section of my regular food market. The one I use is MaraNatha Organic Almond Butter. 100% raw almonds, No Salt Added.