Rehabber question - Pet squirrel meets Wild

[adoptedmom]

:wave123 Hi all. I need some advice about how much danger a pet squirrel is in when it encounters a wild outside.

My two year old foxer, Holden, hangs out (uncaged) on my patio most mornings for a couple of hours. There are some huge ficus trees out there (which she hasn't figured out she can climb) but no traditional squirrel habitat. The patio is walled with a high wall, so the only way in or out is via the trees. I generally open the back door, leave her 4 or 5 nuts to hide, and let her roam at will. I don't stay outside with her and she comes back in when she is ready.

Two days ago, I opened the back door and surprised a wild foxer on the ground. He bolted into a tree. I assume he was after her nut stashes. I don't think he lives in the ficus trees as I've never seen him before. He looks younger than Holden by maybe a year (and I don't know that he is a "he"). This morning, after she'd been outside a while, I went to check on her, and there he was, studying her from the branch of one of the ficus trees. Then the bold little sucker came down onto the patio, and jumped on her. She bolted toward me and he just bolted, but he didn't go very far away.

Holden has been with me for her entire life. She's socially undeveloped (obviously) and seemed oblivious to the fact that she was being stalked. It seems fairly certain they will meet again. Will there automatically be a territory/dominance battle? Are squirrels generally violent toward squirrels they don't know? Is blood inevitable? How worried do I need to be?

[FallensMommie]

Squirrels are territorial and then throw nuts in the mix :shakehead

I know nothing of your area, so I have to ask: Do you have bird of prey? If so I'd be more worried about a hawk etc. getting her.

If your going to continue this practice I wouldn't allow her anymore nuts outside, or food for that matter and you need to chase off that other squirrel until it doesn't come back...taking away the food supply (Nuts) should help in keeping it away....but you still have to worry about bird of prey if you have them.

Is there a way to keep her enclose to a a certain area outside to prevent squirrel or other attacks as a preventive?

[sherbear59]

Really good question I have no idea ! Hopefully someone else will know:wave123

[Mars]

First a question - could Holden be in heat?:thinking

[adoptedmom]

First a question - could Holden be in heat?:thinking

Mars, I don't know. Since there seems to be a birthing season (or two), I assume mating would happen seasonally as well. I'm in California. Does anybody know if it's that time in California?

[adoptedmom]

Squirrels are territorial and then throw nuts in the mix :shakehead

If your going to continue this practice I wouldn't allow her anymore nuts outside, or food for that matter and you need to chase off that other squirrel until it doesn't come back...taking away the food supply (Nuts) should help in keeping it away....

Tell me about it :D. I started encouraging her to hide them outside because she got territorial on me inside once or twice.

How do I chase off the other squirrel? There's 2 months worth of nuts buried out there. If they do fight, will it get really violent or will it be more posturing and wrestling?

[adoptedmom]

I know nothing of your area, so I have to ask: Do you have bird of prey? If so I'd be more worried about a hawk etc. getting her.
....but you still have to worry about bird of prey if you have them.

Is there a way to keep her enclose to a a certain area outside to prevent squirrel or other attacks as a preventive?

I'm in CA. We do have birds of prey (hawks, owls, shrikes, etc.). I do worry about that , but my sister, who is a field biologist, says that my very urban habitat reduces the likelihood Holden will become a target. According to her, owls present the greatest danger, so I don't let her out during owl hunting hours.

There isn't really a way for me to "contain" her without caging her. She's never been caged, inside or out, so I don't think it would go over well.

Maybe I could figure out how to stretch some netting over the patio. Of course that probably wouldn't go over well with my landlord.

It's all Gamma's fault I started letting her outside in the first place :poke

[adoptedmom]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :hidechair :hidechair :hidechair :baghead :baghead :baghead

I put Baby in a cage when she goes out. Jeez...I'm a NERVOUS WRECK when she is out there. I would NEVER survive if she wasn't in a cage! :osnap

She's not too happy about it, but it's only for an hour. :rotfl


LOL! Gamma, I'm not really blaming you. I think it makes her happy to be outside. When she first started going outside I couln't leave her alone for even a second, it made me so nervous. But I also can't spend three hours outside every morning, so I got used to it. I'm just not sure I could bear to put her in a cage - even if it is for her "health."

The problem is, she's too retarded to look UP when she hears a noise. And she still hasn't figured out the tree trunk leads to the branches.

I am hoping someone will tell me (a) how to chase off the other squirrel and (b) if they do meet and I'm not around, will it be a squabble or a violent battle? How severe is is a squirrel bite to another squirrel?

I'm also worried because her upper front teeth are still growing in, so I'm not sure they are long enough to be an effective weapon.

[Sciurus1]

With the pet squirrel vs. wild squirrel issue, when we released the squirrel we had raised, a wild male came along and chased her out of his immediate territory, by going into her own nest box to drive her out. So unless you want to chance that, I wouldn' continue doing what you are doing presently. Sadly even worse could happen, besides your pet being driven off, it could be injured or even killed. Best to then rethink the cage idea, as a habitat which they can spend time within, with arboreal features added to it, it can become a veritable oasis for them. It is not good health wise to not have one a pet squirrel, for without climbing as a part of their daily regimen, they will not be strong and fit cardiovacularly, and tend towards being overweight. Problem with outside cages is that wild squirrels may visit and they do try to nip at the toes of the pet in the outside cage. Best then to not feed the wilds if you want them to stay away, as well as provide branches for your pet to climb on inside the cage, so they do not have to hang out on the side allot. Foxers do better with cages that are longer in length, then sacrificing height is not such a problem, whereas greys do better with cages that are taller, with less overall length. Recommended
cage dimensions for foxers is at least 8x5x4, which is nice because it is big enougth for a human to go inside with them. A really nice habitat can be put in one that size that would satisfy a pet squirrel. A smaller one can be put outside, say 5x4x4. As far as a squirrel getting used to being in a cage, it can be done, if it is an inviting habitat. They love a retreat, and that is what it would be for them, with greenery and places to perch and hang out on. Again size is the issue, so I am not saying that they will tolerate a small cage, for they won't, not unless they are in pain and not wanting to move about.

[adoptedmom]

Thank you, S1. Just to clarify, I haven't technically released her. Her nest box is actually in my apartment at the top of a 6ft pole. Are you saying the wild squirrel could drive her off so she wouldn't come back inside the apartment?

I don't think the patio was the wild's territory as this was the first time I have ever seen a squirrel back there in the 3 months we've been here. Does that make a difference? If the wild views it as Holden's territory, will it be less aggressive or more?

Are they always bloody battles or just sometimes? Is there even a remote chance it could turn "friendly"?

[Mars]

THis is very hard to perdict. If it's another young squirrel it may be just play. On the other hand it could be a mess as a squirrel's bite can do alot of damage. There is no way to "chase off" the new sqiurrel and as long as you are putting food out it will attract other squirrels and critters to your yard.

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

S1 is right. When it comes to food, squirrels get territorial. A chase could ensue, and your pet squirrel be chased off. It would not know how to survive on it's own. I would discontinue this practice. A cage or harness would be the safest bet when letting your pet out for some fresh air.

[Sciurus1]

If a squirrel is handicapped, as yours seems to be from your decription, they could kill her, it only take one bad bite. I know, I tried to put to females together, one younger. At first it was ok, but as she grew, the older wouldn't tolerater her in her space, and then not at all. I was holding the younger, with all the vital parts covered, and the old came up my arm calmly, and put a bad chomp on my finger, with some considerable force, thinking it was the younger squirrel. If it had been she would have been severely injured. Thankfully she got me instead. She never bit me again save for when she had back pain while I was giving her medication for that. It was my fault, and my husbands who wanted to see if they could be put together. That then ended that, my finger healed, but we separated them after that, never again to be able to get to one another, save through the common cage wire side. Even then, we had a bit accident with toes, so we then had to make the partition doubled, so they could only smell, and not bite one another.

I do not believe it is reasonable to then to continue to allow your squirrel out in the yard. You were lucky, but now it is cldar there are other squirrels, and that is that as they say! Time then to build a cage for her, and allow her to have a safe and happy place to call her own. She will adapt. Check out Fallensmommie's squirrel Fallen that was raised and released, then injured outside from being chased by another squirrel, and then reintroduced to captivity. He now has a cage, and he was wild. I think then your foxer can reajust to spending his time in a large habitat cage, one where he will feel the territory is all his own, and be safe from any interlopers. I can say this, you don't want to see them fight. I have, and it was horrible. Thankfully that was just a tiff between a brother and sister, but then it got worse, she tried to chase her away, in the same cage! When we had him neutered it was allot better after that, the settled down and were the best of buddies then. Yet wilds and pets, will fight, and a pet that is lest than capable of taking to the trees is a real easy target for a wild to take down.


Check out the OTT light is used by our members for indoor squirrels. Gammas Baby can help you with that information. I wouldn't settle for less now, having see the big difference it can make for the squirels as opposed to the regular reptile lights available on the market.

[Sciurus1]

I forgot to note, that if you have other wildlife in your area, your squirrel is easy pickin's for predation. Hawks, raccoons, and coyotes are common predators, and are able to get a squirrel on the ground. I have seen on video a fox get a tree squirrel on the ground very easily. Considering that this squirrel is not fit, it is not wise to leave him out by himself, or at all without protection. We had a member recenty that had a squirrel in a lightweight portable cage in her backyard, but a neighbor's dog knocked it over, and sprung the cage, so that the squirrel got out out, but sadly did not survive. An outside cage needs to be heavy and secure enough to withstand predators.

[KimbleSquible]

It such a difficult thing! We are looking at letting Scribble go one day so endevour to keep him outside as much as possible (much to his disgust), we have a fairly large cage that my husband built around a small tree and I am trying to get a garden growing inside (I am planting things he can eat but he tends to eat them before they are given a chance). We have a young wild male that comes and hangs on Scribbles cage and makes rude noises at him. He once tried to grab Scrib and has been seen postering, prancing and trying to dig his way in. My dog (who thinks she is a Squirrel) took an instant dislike to this chap and chases him away when she sees him. And just incase I have a blow gun and frozen peas at hand. Not to hurt him, just to make enough noise to frighten him.
I would get a big cage and keep an eye on your visitor. For your peace of mind your girls safety.

[Sciurus1]

Frozen peas, oh no, when they thaw, they might eat them! White vinegar sends a message not to enter into this territory, being like a scent marking. My friend who I told about this, employed it by use of a sprayer, along the borders of her property, to keep her chipmunks from crossing over to getting under her car, and it WORKED, for they wouldn't cross over the line she made with theh vinegar. !!

[JLM27]

I'm going to throw my two cents in. I think letting your squirrel alone in the back without protection is courting disaster. Wild squirrels are very territorial and they can SMELL what is going on. They are very persistent and determined in upholding what I call their "squirrel rules". They can smell the nuts. They may also be picking up hormones from your pet, wafting through the air and dictating a response. I also think they can spot a weak squirrel and will move in to take whatever they can (nuts, sex, or territory) or just plain enforce the neighborhood hierarchy. There is a lot more going on in the backyard than most humans know. Further, a net will discourage hawks (who can kill a squirrel with one sudden deadly dive, an unseen and unexpected WHOMP!!!), but it will not discourage a determined wild squirrel who can chew through anything but heavy metal. So, a cage is what everyone is saying is prudent, and I have to recommend that too.
Think how you will feel if something happens. As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
When I was grad student in Philadelphia (way back when) I wanted to go roaming in the neighborhood and at night to go to clubs, etc. However, it was not safe, so even though it would have been more fun for me, I just didn't do it.
And yes, they can make a bloody mess of each other if they are motivated. Please keep your innocent little fuzzer safe.